Seeking priesthood

[Ken H]

Hello all,

First let me say that while I am new, I enjoy this forum very much. I have been so impressed with the level of discussion that I would like to seek the opinions of list members on a complicated matter, that, frankly is over my head.

Here's the problem. I am a Byzantine Catholic. I have a friend, a Byzantine Catholic, who is married. For some time now, he has been convinced that he is called to priesthood. He thinks that the Byzantine Church in North America was unfairly deprived of a married priesthood when the Latin bishops insisted the BC's adopt celibacy in the 1920s. Therefore, since he is in many ways essentially Orthodox in theology and since he thinks the Latins have wronged his Church, he is considering answering his call by becoming Orthodox (I suppose he would seek fellowship in OCA (?)). My take on this: one, obviously as a BC, I am troubled about the Papal issue BUT I beg you brothers let us not contend about that now. My other concerns, which I invite list members to consider and enlighten me: can such a transfer even happen? Does it matter that he is married prior to ever having attended seminary or been admitted to any holy order (or do I have that all backward)? Would an Orthodox bishop encourage such a man? He is a well read man with a sophisticated understanding of much theology, but to my knowledge has never had any formal training. I am not comitted to arguing against his wishes a)because JPII has made it clear that Catholics are to consider Orthodox Churches as full and true sister Churches: their is no hierarchy of value (I am aware that many brothers here have complaints against Rome and I respect that, but I beg you please consider only this case in itself for now) and b) because frankly I think he could be a good priest. I would only say something negative to him if someone here could show me that he faces insurmountable impediments to his yearning. I just don't know the canon law or theology necessary to discuss this with him. AFIK, he has not contacted a priest himself (yet). Any help please?

[Joseph Willcoxson]

Well, he has it somewhat backwards. He should decide on whether he believes Orthodoxy to be "the church". If so, he should become Orthodox. Afterwards, if the church considers him for the priesthood then marriage is not an impediment. Once one has been ordained to the diaconate or higher, he cannot be married unless he was released by his bishop--what RCs would call laicization. I don't know what we (Orthodox) call the term.

It seems as if most of our parish priests are married.

[Ken H]

Joseph,

Thank you. I think I begin to see a source of confusion. As a BC he (and I for that matter) have no problem seeing Orthodoxy as "the Church". The question is, how could he demonstrate that satisfactorily to his potential bishop. For example, he believes the Orthodox position on that married clergy are licit. I've never really "debated" with him on more subtle theological matters, but even if I did, I do not know how to say if he's "Orthodox enough". Is it necessary, for example, to make some kind of formal abjuration? I suppose this stems from a confusion inherent in an Eastern Catholic Church. We exist in a kind of spectrum wherein members and hierarchy range from "latinized" to essentially Orthodox and the one thing that is very distinctive is the unity with Rome.

[Herman Blaydoe]

I am an "adopted" member of an entire jurisdiction that was accepted into the Orthodox Church from Catholicism by profession of Faith. The requirement as to the married priesthood is that a candidate be married prior to ordination. Your friend meets that criterion. I heartily recommend he discuss his situation with Metropolitan Nicholas of Amissos in Johnstown PA, of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese. He is a man who can understand and appreciate the situation.

Herman

[Ken H]

Herman,

Thank you. To your knowledge (or anyone who wishes to join this discussion) is such a transfer, when it occurs, always to the Orthodox jurisidiction from which the Eastern Catholic church derives? I ask this because in this case, neither myself nor my inquiring friend are "ethnic". He's a Byzantine through conversion, and I have no roots in the Carpatho-Russian community by which I can assist him in approaching the diocese. Must he go to the "sister" jurisdiction?

[Herman Blaydoe]

I am not sure I understand the question. But if your friend were to approach Metropolitan Nicholas, it would be to be accepted into the ACROD. He is free to approach ANY Orthodox jurisdiction, preferably one that is geographically closest, but I happen to know that Metr. Nicholas is sympathetic to dealing with Byzantine Catholics and I would suspect the path might be less fraught with obstacles than say if he were to try and go off to ROCOR. Metr. Nicholas is very approachable and "no-nonsense."

[Fr Averky]

Herman,

Forgive me, but I do not believe that you and I are in a position to discuss what the bishops of the ROCOR might do in this case, perhaps you might know HOCNA better, but I know our bishops well, and they will speak to anyone who is sincere, but they do not do things hastily, and try to do things in good order-they do not like to stretch "eonomia" to its limits or to compromise the integrity of the Church, but they are interested in saving souls...

As to this friend of the man who is posting, at the moment, his reasons for seeking the priesthod or even joining the Orthodox Church are not wel-intended, but he wants things as he thinks they should be.

Personally, I do not think that a Chat Board is the appropriate place to ask these questions. The man needs to look into Orthodoxy and see if he really believes it to be the Church, or is it just that he will change to get priested. He seems to forget that it is God's will, not his own that he should be seeking.

Since none of us are bishops, we also not in a position to speak about this. It is one of the weakness of us converts- a little bit of "knowledge" goes much too far. Ken, please tell your friend to go through proper channels, and why, pray, are you speaking for him? If he is so determined, he should go to a priest or a bishop and be prepared to make that commitment, after all he is not seeking a "job."

Fr. A.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Father Bless,

Please forgive. Thank you for your admonition.

Herman

[Donald Wescott]

Ken,

I certainly agree with both Herman and Father Averky in this matter. Herman apparently has first hand knowledge of the process whereby the Carpatho-Russian archdiocese accepts those coming in from Eastern-Rite situations. Clearly the Antiochian archdiocese also has a great deal of experience in dealing with converts as does the OCA, and I'm sure ROCOR as well.

However, Father Averky makes several key points. First and foremost, that your friend needs to examine his heart closely with regard to his desire for the priesthood. If it is indeed simply his objection to the RC ban on married priests which is moving him in the direction of Orthodoxy, it may be cause for serious reservations on the part of the subject Bishop. If, however his desire is truly to embrace the one, holy , Catholic and Aposyolic faith, it may make things easier, though easy is certainly a relative term one is speaking of conversion to Orthodoxy.

The parish priest who was integral in receiving my wife and I into the Church, often told me that whatever I brought with me from my background that was good, and holy and true, remained good and holy and true. The thing I have discovered, often to my great regret is that the things I once believed to be good, holy and true were in fact not so. I guess what I'm saying is that coversion to Orthodoxy cannot be taken lightly, should not be approached for the wrong reasons and is a continual process that is painful at times.

Father Averky rightly cautions that the move toward the Church should be slow and measured and not entered into unadvisedly. I do however find it wonderful that your friend may be drawn to the Church and that you are here at Monachos as well.

Under His Mercy,
Donald Eusebios

[Ken H]

Father A.

Please forgive me. I will say that neither I nor my friend are as cynical as you make out. I will say too that perhaps you are not familiar with life inside an Eastern Catholic church, and therefore it might not be so easy to judge whether one can approach Orthodox faith from that direction. However, I take one thing to heart: perhaps I was mistaken to undertake such a discussion here. Please brothers, let us consider the matter closed. Would the moderator please remove this topic from the board?

K

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Ken H.

The hour is late for me, and I must rise early; therefore I'll be as succinct as possible.
In 1970's my best friend and I were going nightly to the parking lots lining a major street in a particular Texas city. Once there we would pass out tracts, and talk with whomever we found about our Lord Jesus Christ. One night before going out I was kneeling by my living room sofa, praying about what I should say to the "street people" we would encounter. As I prayed I got the distinct impression God said to me, "Preach!" My response was, "they'll laugh me right off the street." I again heard in my heart, "Preach!" Being the good Protestant I was, I consulted my pastor and told him of my experience. Another 'preacher boy' had joined the 'ministry'. Besides this I learned all I could about what it meant to preach, which essentially is , to scatter abroad.

My understanding at the time of what it meant to preach was colored by my Protestant background, and so I recoiled from the idea of being a church pastor. Still I enrolled in the required 'pastor type' classes in college, but upon flunking one class I cried out to God, and said I was ready to flatly reject being a preacher, and focus on my artistic talent. I really expected to die!

In the ensuing time of never becoming a "pastor", I've learned over and over that my first congregation is my family. Another thing I've learned, somewhat as Moses did -albeit I was still a Protestant - was that when God calls you to something, He doesn't uncall you. What God requires is still there, it's just a matter of how obedient I am to His commandment.

I wasn't called to be a Baptist, Methodist, Church of Christ, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, Mennonite, or Assembley of God preacher, although I could easily have aligned myself to any of those denominational bodies. The charge was, PREACH.

The passage of time has, in a sense saw the death of that charge. However; (don't you just love God),when what God has placed into our hands is allowed to die, then by His own mercy and boundless grace, God is free to resurrect that, and fill it with His own life. And so, here I am years later, without seeking it, a member of the clergy of Holy Orthodoxy. As my priest said -who first floated the idea to me that I could be a deacon - "If God wants you to be a deacon, it will happen."

We renounce the world, we renounce oour flesh, and we renounce the devil. Anything else I think would be a safeguard against rushing into such a heady responsiblity of representing the people to God, and God to the people. As for more technical aspects of the Church requirements for clergy, the Fr.'s and the Archbishop here are better qualified to answer.

I pray this in some way helps you and your friend.

the unworthy servant