Confession

[Richard McBride]

ABJECT CONFESSION

O most merciful Lord, I thank Thee, I glorify Thee, I hymn Thee, I venerate Thee,
for unworthy though I am Thou hast found me worthy in this hour to give thanks to Thee,
and to be mindful of the wonders and blessings -- numberless and unfathomable, visible and invisible, known and unknown -- that Thy grace has bestowed and still bestows upon our souls and bodies.
I confess Thy gifts;
I do not hide They blessings;
I proclaim Thy mercies:
I acknowledge Thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart, and glorify Thy name for ever.

For great is Thy mercy towards me, and inexpressible is Thy forbearance and long-suffering over my many sins and iniquities, over the heinous and godless things that I have done, and still do, and will do in the future.
From these Thy grace has saved me, whether they were committed consciously or unconsciously, in word, in action or in thought. Thou knowest them all, O Lord, Searcher of hearts, from my birth until my death; and, abject that I am, I dare to confess them before Thee.
“I have sinned,
I have transgressed,
I have acted godlessly,
I have done evil in Thy sight,” and I am not worthy to gaze upon the height of heaven.

Yet, finding courage in Thy inexpressible compassion,
in Thy goodness and tender mercy that excel our understanding,
I fall before Thee and etnreat Thee, Lord [full prostration]:
“Have mercy upon me, O Lord, for I am weak,”
and forgive me my many crimes.

Do not allow me to sin again or to stray from Thy straight path, or to injure or offend anyone, but check in me every iniquity, every evil habit, every mindless impulse of soul and body, or anger and desire; and teach me to act according to Thy will.

[Moses Anthony]

Richard;

Are you bychance the same Richard McBride who was or is a member of the TTMBO discusson group. Boy, small web!

Abject, shameless, open, transparent, real con- fession. I'm personally inclined to identify with the second word; as I recall, when with our father confessor he asks the question, "...is there anything else". If for any reason we hold anything back, then it's not true confession, and the whole exercise is nothing more than an exercise in pride. (here's a thought I just had: confession is itself a form of prayer, if in fact the priest is the ambassador of God with whom we're conversing).

If you perchance are the same Richard, it's good to hear/read your thoughts again.

tus
M.

[Richard McBride]

Dear Beloved of God Moses:

I think I was NOT in that discussion group, because I don't recall TTMBO.

Yet, there is considerable coincidence here. Aren't you in Witchata Falls (that spelling looks off)? I am in Dallas and was in the Antiochian Church of Saints Constantine and Helen here.

But still, I don't think our paths have crossed, and I am sorry for that. I think your father confessor was very truthful in what he said; but that doesn't make it any easier to do does it?

I pray that you find favor in the sight of the Lord, Moses.

Richard

[Harvey]

Reading through this group of messages about confession, and Richard McBride's post "Abject Confession," I was reminded of a "model confession" I read somewhere---but I can't remember where. Maybe someone could help me. I seem to remember it as being part of a story or a tale: one person thinks he is making confession well, and then another person tells him that he has a lot of growing to do still in this area. The first person asks him what he means, and then the second person reads some written "sample confession," which I can't remember much about, but I remember that it was very beautiful.

......at least that's what comes to mind. I know this is very random, but if anybody knows what I'm talking about, maybe you could point me to the place where I can find it? Or maybe post it here??

Thanks very much.

[Owen Jones]

Sample confession:

I lied, I cheated and I stole.

[Pamela Hristov]

Perhaps I am doing it wrong or maybe I am just lazy but I like Owens post of a sample confession. As still new to all of this I took confession for the first time a couple of months ago. As it was my first; father walked me thru the process then told me to say what was in my heart and what I wanted to tell the Lord. I confessed my sins..quietly and simply. I never gave a thought to whether I was doing it wrong or right or if I had "much to learn as to the manner in which I confessed"(re Harvey's post). I only know that I couldn't hold anything back or it defeats the whole purpose. For how can we be forgiven if we have not been honest. Although I would suppose that as one becomes more mature in their faith; the manner in which one does things changes greatly. Any thoughts???

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Harvey,

I believe the 'model confession' to which you refer is contained in the tale, The Pilgrim Continues His Way - the 'second part' or extension of The Way of the Pilgrim, one of the classic texts of modern Russian spirituality. I will post its contents in a separate message to this thread.

But following upon the other messages posted here, it should be understood that the Confession presented in the Pilgrim is not a 'form-model' for personal confession. One needn't (and in fact shouldn't) try to be so poetic and deliberately moving in one's own confessions; these should be heartfelt, direct, honest and not at all for show, as others in this thread have pointed out.

Even in the text of the story the 'great spiritual father' who offers the text of the confession to the pilgrim does not do so as a 'rule' for how the latter's confession must be formed; but rather as a text for reflection that can inspire in him the sort of genuine humility and contrition that must be at the heart of true confession to God. From the text, the priest, speaking to the pilgrim after the latter has misunderstood how it is possible not to love God, or to hate one's neighbour, notes:


"'It's a pity, dear one, that you so little undersood what I said. Look! It will teach you more quickly if I give you these notes. They are what I always use for my own Confession. Read them through, and you will see clearly enough an exact proof of what I said to you just now.' He gave me the notes, and I began to read them, as follows...."

We see that the written confession to follow is treated as 'notes', reflection upon which may lead one to search himself in such a manner that one's confession in the sacrament (which may be much simpler, basic and direct) is based upon true contrition. After the text of the confession is given, the pilgrim notes:


"On reading through this form of Confession which the priest gave me I was horrified and I thought to myself: 'Good heavens! What frightful sins there are hidden within me and up to now I've never noticed them!' The desire to be cleansed from them made me beg this great spiritual father to teach me how to know the causes of all these evils and how to cure them. And he began to instruct me."

He does not attempt to 'model' his own confessions upon this example; but he uses the example as a tool which helps enlighten him as to the nature of the sin in himself. From there, his confession may be more sincere.

I'll post the text of the confession in a separate message to follow.

INXC, Matthew

[M.C. Steenberg]

Following on my previous post in this thread, I provide below the text of the 'Confession' from The Pilgrim Continues His Way.

A CONFESSION WHICH LEADS THE INWARD MAN TO HUMILITY.

"Turning my eyes carefully upon myself and watching the course of my inward state, I have verified by experience that I do not love God, that I have no love for my neighbours, that I have no religious belief, and that I am filled with pride and sensuality. And this I actually find in myself as a result of detailed examination of my feelings and conduct, thus:

"1. I do not love God. For if I loved God I should be continually thinking about Him with heartfelt joy. Every thought of God would give me gladness and delight. On the contrary, I much more often and much more eagerly think about earthly things, and thinking about God is labour and dryness. If I loved God, then talking with Him in prayer would be my nourishment and delight and would draw me to unbroken communion with Him. But, on the contrary, I not only find no delight in prayer, but even find it an effort. I struggle with reluctance, I am enfeebled by sloth, and am ready to occupy myself eagerly with any unimportant trifle, if only it shortens prayer and keeps me from it. My time slips away unnoticed in futile occupations, but when I am occupied with God, when I put myself into His presence, every hour seems like a year. If one person loves another, he thinks of him throughout the day without ceasing, he pictures him to himself, he cares for him, and in all circumstances his beloved friend is never out of his thoughts. But I, throughout the day, scarcely set aside even a single hour in which to sink deep down into meditation upon God, to inflame my heart with love of Him, while I eagerly give up twenty-three hours as fervent offerings to the idols of my passions. I am forward in talk about frivolous matters and things which degrade the spirit; that gives me pleasure. But in the consideration of God I am dry, bored and lazy. Even if I am unwillingly drawn by others into spiritual conversation, I try to shift the subject quickly to one which pleases my desires. I am tirelessly curious about novelties, about civic affairs and political events; I eagerly seek the satisfaction of my love of knowledge in science and art, and in ways of getting things I want to possess. But the study of the Law of God, the knowledge of God and of religion, make little impression on me, and satisfy no hunger of my soul. I regard these things not only as a non-essential occupation for a Christian, but in a casual way as a sort of side-issue with which I should perhaps occupy my spare time, at odd moments. To put it shortly, if love for God is recognized by the keeping of His commandments (If ye love Me, keep My commandments, says our Lord Jesus Christ), and I not only do not keep them, but even make little attempt to do so, then in absolute truth the conclusion follows that I do not love god. This is what Basil the Great says: 'The proof that a man does not love God and His Christ lies in the fact that He does not keep His commandments.'

"2. I do not love my neighbour either. For not only am I unable to make up my mind to lay down my life for his sake (according to the Gospel), but I do not even sacrifice my happiness, well-being and peace for the good of my neighbour. If I did love him as myself, as the Gospel bids, his misfortunes would distress me also, and his happiness would bring delight to me too. But, on the contrary, I listen to curious, unhappy stories about my neighbour and I am not distressed; I remain quite undisturbed or, what is still worse, I find a sort of pleasure in them. Bad conduct on the part of my brother I do not cover up with love, but proclaim aloud with censure. His well-being, honour and happiness do not delight me as my own, and, as if they were something quite alien to me, give me no feeling of gladness. What is more, they subtly arouse in me feelings of envy or contempt.

"3. I have no religious belief. Neither in immortality nor in the Gospel. If I were firmly persuaded and believed without doubt that beyond the grave lies eternal life and recompense for the deeds of this life, I should be continually thinking of this. The very idea of immortality would terrify me and I should lead this life as a foreigner who gets ready to enter his native land. On the contrary, I do not even think about eternity, and I regard the end of this earthly life as the limit of my existence. The secret thought nestles within me: Who knows what happens at death? If I say I believe in immortality, then I am speaking about my mind only, and my heart is far removed from a firm conviction about it. That is openly witnessed to by my conduct and my constant care to satisfy the life of the senses. Were the Holy Gospel taken into my heart in faith, as the Word of God, I should be continually occupied with it, I should study it, find delight in it and with deep devotion fix my attention upon it. Wisdom, mercy, love, are hidden in it; it would lead me to happiness, I should find gladness in the study of the Law of God day and night. In it I should find nourishment like my daily bread and my heart would be drawn to the keeping of its laws. Nothing on earth would be strong enough to turn me away from it. On the contrary, if now and again I read or hear the Word of God, yet even so it is only from necessity or from a general love of knowledge, and approaching it without any very close attention, I find it dull and uninteresting. I usually come to the end of the reading without any profit, only too ready to change over to secular reading in which I take more pleasure and find new and interesting subjects.

"4. I am full of pride and sensual self-love. All my actions confirm this. Seeing something good in myself, I want to bring it into view, or to pride myself upon it before other people or inwardly to admire myself for it. Although I display an outward humility, yet I ascribe it all to my own strength and regard myself as superior to others, or at least no worse than they. If I notice a fault in myself, I try to excuse it, I cover it up by saying, 'I am made like that', or 'I am not to blame.' I get angry with those who do not treat me with respect and consider them unable to appreciate the value of people. I brag about my gifts: my failures in any undertaking I regard as a personal insult. I murmur, and I find pleasure in the unhappiness of my enemies. If I strive after anything good it is for the purpose of winning praise, or spiritual self-indulgence, or earthly consolation. In a word, I continually make an idol of myself and render it uninterrupted service, seeking in all things the pleasure of the senses, and nourishment for my sensual passions and lusts.

"Going over all this I see myself as proud, adulterous, unbelieving, without love to God and hating my neighbour. What state could be more sinful? The condition of the spirits of darkness is better than mine. They, although they do not love God, hate men and live upon pride, yet at least they believe and tremble. But I? Can there be a doom more terrible than that which faces me, and what sentence of punishment will be more severe than that upon the careless and foolish life that I recognize in myself?"

(Taken from The Pilgrim Continues His Way, trans. R.M. French (London: SPCK, 1996) pp. 24-28.)

[Harvey]

That's it! Matthew... thanks for posting this text from the Pilgrim Continues his Way. It's exactly the one I was thinking of ... it is such a beautiful inspiration for how I can think about my own self, and see things in my self that I would probably be too arrogant to notice on my own.

[Andonis Saridopoulos]

need some advice please!

i have booked in to my first confession in the twenty seven years of my life, for next Tuesday coming. i have one reservation which is probably a silly one, but i'll mention it here. the priest whom will be confessor was actually our theology teacher at the high school i attended, which was a Greek Orthodox College. i guess i am fearful because some of what i wish to confess i have kept hidden for many, many years and now i am about to reveal these things not only to a confessor, but someone whom has know me since childhood. i find this a little more intimidating i guess.

i am wandering whether i should just go ahead, or is it a scapegoat to seek another priest whom doesn't know me personally? we have a number of Russian Orthodox confessors here in my city whom wouldn't have a clue whom i was. any words of advice would be much appreciated. thanks...

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Andonis,

This is largely a matter for inner deliberation and prayer, and for which the local customs of your Church may offer some guidance. But as a general thought, the fact that one has known a given priest for some time, whether for a few years or an entire lifetime, should not necessarily influence one's relationship to him as a confessor. The mystery of confession is fearful and the priest's part therein sacred; you'll find that nearly all will approach it precisely as such, no matter how long they may have known you.

In establishing a relationship with a new spiritual father (for whatever reason: having moved, first confession, etc), it is always to be encouraged that the father be one with whom ongoing and continued contact can be had on a regular basis, if at all possible. To this end, your own parish priest, if he be a suitable father, is desirable for the continuity of guidance he may be able to offer you.

INXC, Matthew

[Andonis Saridopoulos]

hello all,
i had my first confession yesterday and may i say it was trully an amazing experience. i had twenty seven years of sins to confess, and thaks to God, he gave me the strength to boldly confess all, without any hesitation. the power of this sacrament penetrated me and shook me. it honestly felt like the Holy Spirit was descending and washing me clean of every iniquity and infirmity. i could feel the shackles breaking, and the demons of my past which kept me prisoner for a long time, fleeing.
the only question i did have, was that in terms of penance. i asked the father whether he felt i needed to give penance for my transgressions. he simply advised me that i should fast for Christmas to receive communion, attend services diligently and basically to live as much as possible the life of an Orthodox Christian. i guess what i feared most is that i didn't want to walk out of the church and do something that would reverse this amazing experience, to be washed away of ones sins. my parish preist did assure me that my concerns were unwarranted, because he said that trully your sins have been forgiven, despite whether or not your father gave you specific instructions of how to prepare to receive communion or whatever else. in fact, and this is what i liked most, he said that for you to go away feeling that you haven't been forgiven, is a worse sin than not going to confession at all!

God bless you all, my heart has once again been softened so that it can once again be filled with love.

[Andonis]

hello all,
i am about to go to my second ever confession next week. amazingly, after my first one which the above post describes, i have since been flooded with the memory of other sins that i have commited which i have not sought forgiveness for. sins which i put in the not so bad category, but now come to light as morally putrid. i cannot beleive how significant the shift in consciousness has been.
i guess my question centers around, how specific should one be in confession? for instance, if you have committed a sexual impurity, should you describe the impurity with detail, or just confess it as sexual impurity generically? i know my instincts are telling me to confess with utmost detail. yet i find my preist confessor when i do say something generally, does not ask for detail. should i insist on detail? i just feel that the confession will be more complete if i have the gaul to completely expose the shamefulness of my sins. any advice?

[Margaret Jackson-Roberts]

From my RC perspective and recollection, Andonis, revealing the full detail of sinful behaviour to a priest is relevant only inasmuch as it supports the point you are trying to make, ie it is illustrative of the things you are now avoiding and demonstrative of the conversion of manners you have now chosen. It is akin to critically studying a photograph of yourself as you used to be and realising the changes are (a) inevitable and (b) not necessarily all bad. I too was not always celibate, and can speak from experience!

the seeker

[sinjin smithe]

Andonis, I would confess your sins but without exact detail if it is a sexual sin, the reason is you don&#39;t want your confessor to be tempted. You should never in a confessions say who you sinned with, you should only confess the sin that you have committed. It should be &#34;I engaged in premarital sex&#34; and this should suffice. Again, you shouldn&#39;t really confess every little graphic detail, think of your priest. I would recommend you talking to your priest about this. There is also an excellent book called the <u>Forgotten Medicine: The Mystery of Repentance</u> written by Archimandrite Seraphim Aleksiev that discusses the sacrament of confession and how one should go about it. I would highly recommend reading that book. It is a well known book in Orthodoxy and you should have no trouble finding it. Here is another link on confession that maybe helpful to you Guidance to the Repentant (http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/guidance_repentant.htm)

[Andonis]

hi margaret and sinjin,

thank you ever so much for your excellent advice. i regard it as invaluable, you are all my spiritual teachers...

God bless

Andonis

[Owen Jones]

It is also important to confess thoughts that trouble us. The problem in the &#34;modern&#34; world is that we go to priests to confess our overt sins and we go to psychologists to confess our troubled minds. The two are so closely related that one follows the other like night and day. Unfortunately, most priests are not trained in how to hear confessions of troubled thoughts and provide wise counsel, while most psychologists don&#39;t believe there is such a thing as sin, only maladjustments.

When undergoing self-examination prior to confession, it is helpful to write things down. Especially troubling thoughts &#40;keeping it simple, descriptive, objective, avoiding the tendency to want to be our own psychoanalyst&#41;. Our primary problem is not sin, per se. It is dishonesty. All sin stems from the disobedience inherent in being dishonest with our Creator &#40;the woman made me do it! -- the serpent made me do it!&#41;. But first we must be honest with ourselves. Honesty, very close to the traditional definition of purity of heart is what banishes the demons and allow exorcism to take place. Remember that Satan is the prince of lies. It is our rationalizations that are the primary source of our problems. Our rationalizations are what the desert fathers called pre-possession. Writing things down allows for us to look at ourselves more objectively and honestly. You can even take the written list with you to confession and read from it, although be prepared for the priest to tell you to put it down and then recite it sincerely from your heart.

[Andonis]

hello Owen,
what is your opinion on specificity. sinjin explained that it is more considerate of the priest confessor to not go into too much detail lest he be tempted. something in me though tells me that the more specific you are, especially when the sins commited are clearly stated in black and white in the gospel, the more complete the confession will be. for example would it suffice to simply say, i am a fornicator, if you have pre marital sex, or should one outline more specifically the types of sexual sin committed as the gospel does go into detail about sexual acts over and above just using the term fornication. would love your feedback...

[Owen Jones]

You do what you have to do to be free of it.

[sinjin smithe]

Andonis, I would go along the lines of Owen said. Confess as thoroughly as you need to, and also this is extremely important, but you should be sincere and have heartfelt sorrow for the sins that you have committed. Also, what I meant about being considerate of the priest is not going into graphic detail describing the sexual acts you have committed. Be specific but without being graphic. Again, talk to your confessor about this, he is in a better position to respond to this than any of us on the board.

[Andonis]

yes!!, thanks for clarifying this sinjin, i can see how you can be specific without being graphic and this is what i was trying to get at. i think this is the line that i will take. thanks a million...

[Andonis]

this is true Owen. i&#39;ve often really desired to seek spiritual guidance even for my thought processess. i find that i like to pick my thoughts to pieces, to trully expose the dishonest and unwholesome patterns that have formed and often go undetected at a conscious level. to have a spiritual father guide you to that finite degree would be an incredible luxury. i find with our parish priests, here in melbourne, they are far too busy with day to day affairs to give anybody that much time. a 15 or 20 minute confession is the closest you will get to conversation that examines thought processess.
for this reason, i have decided to go to great lengths if i have to, and even travel to Mount Athos for some more intensive spiritual guidance. i have plenty of holiday&#39;s banked up at work and i would rather use them to go to the Holy Mount, than spend my money on some round the world contiki tour or some pacific 7 day boat cruise.

[John Curtis Dunn]

for example would it suffice to simply say, i am a fornicator,

You should only call yourself a fornicator if you are actually currently practicing fornication. In that you are on the path of repentance you are no longer such.

Whenever the rememberance of past sins occurs with pleasure of mind [with fondness rather than remorsefulness] I confess the pleasure. . Often however, I know these occassions of pleasure are simply tricks of the devil to divert my attention from that which matters: being sober minded [mindful] of my salvation in the present tense. Rarely in these rememberances am I truly delighting in any past sins. The Devil will arrainge the circumstances such that we experince these rememberances with fondness. These are almost always triggered by something external to us stimulating our senses. Sight, smell, touch, hearing and even taste can become the stimulius of these rememberances.

If you find that you have let your imagination carry you into a phantasy [fantasy] which is intertwined with these memories; I would confess that, because in that way you expose the light of Christ directly upon it. It is much more difficult for the Devil to again darken your mind with that memory.

Remember to always make the sign of the Cross. It is our weapon against all our enemies, spiritual, emotional and in rememberances. Ask your guardian angel to interrupt your thoughts with the sign of the Cross. I do this and sometimes my eyes will focus upon some object that has the Cross in it and it will immediately sober my thought.

Do not grow faint hearted and pray always.

John

[Andonis]

i had my second confession yesterday. it was again very uplifiting but different to my initial one. i described my first one in previous posts, as being extreemly intense, and the strong sensation of actually being exorcised of many of my demons. this second confession did not stir up my insides anywhere near to the same intensity. i felt a lot more comfortable confessing, and didn&#39;t feel anywhere near the sense of grief and shame as my first one. i hypothesise this is because the first one was intense due to the amount of sin over a lifetime that was being confessed, as compared to second one which was confessing only a month worth of sins. i just thought that this was an interesting difference between my two thus far confessions...

[Andonis]

hello all,

father Averky i really need your advice on this one. i have sunk again head deep into sin, repeating the sins i have done in the past . i am going to Mount Athos soon and would be very keen to confess there with some of the very spiritual fathers that live there. i somehow feel the urge to have confession before i jump on the plane. problem being is that i&#39;m ashamed that when i go back to my confessor i am confessing the same sins with little progress. i am trully ashamed to do this. its so frustrating going back to tell him exactly the same story. i don&#39;t know how it is at the end of it that he can say to me that i am forgiven and &#34;i am white as snow&#34; to quote him. i have let myself down and my fellow christians. i am so frustrated and ashamed...

Andonis

[Fr Averky]

Dear in Christ Adonis,

When Our Saviour said to His Apostles &#34;Whatsoever you shall loose shall be be loosed in heaven, and whatsoever you shall bind shall be bound in heaven,&#34; He gave unto them the authority to forgive sins in His Holy Name. Dear young man, all of us - all of us fail every day and fall into sin. And, most often, they are the sins that we have committed again and again. But because we are children of God, we can go to Him every time, begging His forgiveness with the assurance that we will be forgiven. As Orthodox Christians, we do not see an angry God who cannot be appeased, but a God of love and mercy.

When Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ came to earth, it was not to judge, but to save. Not until His terrible Second Coming will He judge the living and the dead. In His love and concern, He founded the Orthodox Church, the True Ark of Salvation, which has been provided for us as a Mother, a guide, a support and a comfort. He gave to His bishops and priests the loving authority to feed and to tend to His sheep, and you are part of that blessed flock.

Do not be ashamed to go to your priest, for he is but a witness, and knowing you, he will treat you with love and compassion.- going to an unknown priest puts both him and you at a disadvantage, for he knows nothing about you, and you also will not be as comfortable, for you will be telling your sins to someone that you do not know; remember, it is to God Himself that you take your sins and failings, your doubts and your lack of love and faith. Still, it is important for you to have a particular priest with whom you are comfortable, and to whom you can speak openly and with trust. The priest, who himself is a sinner, will not judge you, only God does that. To be able to go to confession is not a shameful thing, Adonis, but a blessed gift from our Savior, for we receive a figurative &#34;baptism,&#34; our sins are washed away, and we are cleansed. That you feel ashamed, that you are fearful - these are good things, because you know that you have offended God, and you feel badly that once again you betrayed Him. We all do that, every one of us, every day. Yet, we are told to take comfort, for unlike the demons who fell and never got up again and became enemies of God, we fall, but we get up, and move on towards our salvation. Go to your confessor, and meekly and humbly stand before God, telling him all of your sins, hiding nothing.

In the Russian tradition, there is a beautiful prayer said by the priest:

&#34;Behold my child, Christ stands here invisibly, and receives your confession; wherefore , be not ashamed, neither be afraid, and conceal nothing from me; but tell me, doubting not, all things which you have done, and so you shall have pardon from our Lord Jesus Christ. Lo, His holy image is before us, and I am but a witness, bearing testimony before Him of the things which you will say to me. But, if you shall conceal anything from me, you will have an even greater sin: therefore take heed, lest having come to the Physician, you shall depart unhealed.&#34;

God, who desires not the death of a sinner, but that he repent and be saved, already knows all of your sins, for He sees into our hearts and knows every action and thought, every word and every deed. But He wants us to come to Him, that by His priest He may graciously grant forgiveness, and you will be sure of that forgiveness. So, dear Adonis, do not be afraid - before your trip, by all means go to confession. Your priest will assure you that God loves you, and He will take all your sins away.

I want to share with you a few lines from an Athonite pamphlet on confession, and I am sure you will find the following lines to be much better than my poor thoughts:

&#34;I am sinful in that seldom, very seldom do I think about my sins. Not only during the week days do I not remember them, but even when preparing for confession I do not stirve to bring them to mind! General self praise comes to mind: &#34;I&#39;m not guilty of anything in paricular, like everyone else.&#34; O Lord, it is if I had no idea what sin is before Thee ... even every &#34;vain word&#34; and every desire for sin in my heart. and how many words and desires come each day, not to mention in a year! You alone dost know them, Oh Lord. Do thou grant me to behold my sins, and to show me compassion and forgive me!.

Moreover, I realize that my constant sinning is the virtual absence in me of any struggle with evil. As any excuse or suggestion appears, I plunge right into the abyss of sin, and only after my fall do I ask myself, &#34;what have I done?&#34; And if I feel sorrow at the time, it comes from my wounded self-love and not from any awareness that I have offended Thee, O Lord!

...my whole life is a chain of sins; I do not value the time which Thou hast given to me for the winning of eternal salvation. When in church, I often stand irreverantly, pray mechanically, judge others as to how they pray , and do not look at myself. At home, sometimes I pray with great effort and with thoughts so scattered that often I myself do not even hear my own prayer. And there are times that I skip my prayers entirely -such is my relationship with you, O Lord, and I can say nothing but, &#34;Forgive me and have
mercy.&#34;

&#34;In my relationship with others, I sin with all my feelings - I sin with my tongue by pronouncing false, profane, provocative, and scandalous words; I sin with my eyes; I sin with my mind and heart, I judge others and harbour enmity often and for long periods of time. I sin not only against the soul, but also against the body, taking food and drink without restraint, and even worse sins do I commit with all of my body.&#34;


A Prayer

&#34;O Lord and Lover of Mankind, Thous dost not drive away the sinner who cometh unto Thee begging Thee for forgiveness. Even before he approaches the doors of Thy mercy, Thou dost already open the way for him: even before he falls down before thee, Thou dost stretch forth Thy hand unto him, and even before he confesses his sins, Thou dost grant him forgiveness. Grant this unto me as I repent, grant this according to Thy great mercy; forgive me all the evil I have committed in thought word and deed. And by granting me forgiveness, send me O Lord strength that I need so that henceforth I may live according to Thy will and not offend Thee. Help me and I will be saved; help me by the reception of Thy Holy Mysteries. And for their worthy reception, tell me that I have received the grace of mercy and forgiveness by the lips of the servant of Thine altar, Thy holy priest Speak by Thy Holy Spirit, not heard by the ear but heard in a contrite heart and peace of conscience. O Lover of Mankind, accept Thou my repentance, that I may approach with peace Thy holy and life-giving Mysteries for the forgiveness of sins, for the setting of aright of my life in this world and for preparation for eternal life. Amen&#34;

Dear Adonis, go in peace - I hope you will have a blessed journey, and that you will remember to pray for me at the holy places on Mt. Athos.

Prayerfully yours,

Father Averky

[Andonis]

father Averky,
thank you so much for coming to may aid. i will march back in to see my priest like a soldier of Christ and confess it all, for my sins wreak havoc on my mental and physical state. i need this sacrament to heal me once again from the wretched state i intentionally put my soul in.

Andonis

[Andonis]

Hi father Averky,

i took your advice and went to confession and i am enormously glad i did. it was once again an amazing experience, totally liberating from the darkened state i seem to constantly get myself into. i even told my priest about this web site and how he can log on and check on what i write. he also was happy to see me, even though i told him that i was ashamed to come and request forgiveness for the same sins over and over again.

thank you for your encouragement, it help get me back on the right path..

[Fr Averky]

Beloved in the Lord, Adonis,

Glory be to God for all things! I was gratified to hear of your recent confession. I am sure that you will agree that your priest was most kind and understanding. God gives to His priests a particualr grace in whcih we see not the sinner, but his sins; we want more than anything for him to come before our Saviour in humble repentence, and we are so glad and spiritually lifted up ourselves when we see a person who honestly comes before God in confession , &#34;revealling all that he has done,&#34; in order to receive pardon for his sins. On Monday, June 16, I will celebrate twenty years as a priest of God, every before me is the thought of my unworthiness, but Adonis, when I receive a letter such as yours today, then I know whatever sorrows and whatever heavy burdens I must bear as a priest, it is all worth it. All of Heaven rejoices when a person who has fallen into sin repents, so do I in my humility rejoice for you Dear Adonis, and I pray that you will now have the wisdom and strength to never be fearful of confessing again, but will hasten whenever you might fall, with the assurance of God&#39;;s mercy ever before you. God love you, God protect you, dear Adonis.

With much love in Christ,

Father Averky

[cale]

Adonis, I think you said something about picking your thoughts to pieces. I can sympathise, but if you will allow me, may I suggest you try praying them to pieces. This is really the best thing I ever started doing. Killing my stupid, pointless thoughts with prayer. It is when the mind leads the heart that we are in an unatural state. It feels natural but its not. Of course, I am totally unsuccesful in cutting of my thoughts for more than a few seconds before they re-assert themselves covertly while I am not paying attention, but God sees our efforts, and if you desire to dwell in prayer and have thought in submission, He will see your efforts and reward you with some relief from your thoughts at a time you dont expect. Then you will see how the mind can be clear and prayer can become easier and more focused.

I often think of how ridiculously vain and futile my thoughts are, how they pass away and are forgotten while they seem so important while they live.

I feel like an idiot trying to teach you something, but the comment about picking thought to pieces really got to me, becasue this is also a cross of mine. Put those thoughts in thier place, you probably only need 1% of them to run your life. To give them so much life is really death and idolising your thought process by loving it with so much attention is, forgive me, a sin we rarely confess.

Have mercy on me if Im out of order and pray for me.

[Andonis]

Hello fellow Aussie Cale,

where in Oz r u?, i&#39;m in Melbourne. thank you for your post, i received it with a great fondness in you taking the time to advise me. i agree with you about thoughts, they can be very deleterious if they indeed become the only means by which you try to perceive the world. i am unfortunately often the victim of my thoughts misleading me. probably because they become so easily tampered with by the devil. even though i often think that after having focused on what is my mind & weeded out any false beleifs and ideas, i soon realise
that many of these thoughts still carry the stain of selfishness and pride amongst other sinful passions.
i guess what i haven&#39;t yet mastered is praying my thoughts as you describe to pieces, and allowing the grace of God to help make sense of them. i have yet to learn the art of surrendering to God my confusion, and allowing him to enlighten me when he see&#39;s fit.

you are right Cale, my thoughts too are often ridiculously vain and futile, and to think how much energy i expend trying to justify them to myself.

i will take your advice and let you know how much progress i am making.

Hello father Averky, and thank you for your warm wishes. next week this time i will be posting from Greece. i appreciate very much you wishing to pray for my safe journey. i am always deeply moved by your kindness.


Andonis

[Beryl Wells Hamilton]

Dear Adonis,

If you really want to take every thought captive to the obedience of Christ&#34; &#40;2 Cor. 10:5&#41;, try this &#34;weapon of mass destruction&#34;: the Song of the Theotokos. Whenever the thoughts start to come in, give them a one-two jab with a rousing inward rendition of &#34;My soul magnifies the Lord, and my spirit rejoices in God my Saviour! More honorable than the cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the seraphim! Without corruption you gave birth to God the Word, True Theotokos we magnify you!&#34; If you have the whole song memorized, sing it all - in your head, or with your mouth, too - and by the time you&#39;re finished, you&#39;ll find that the thoughts have vanished. When they come back, just sing it again. The dark thoughts don&#39;t stand a chance in the light of her holiness.

Yours in Christ,

Beryl

[Rebecca]

Hi,

Not to imply that anyone is taking things to the extreme, but it seems like one can take dwelling on one&#39;s sins to an unhealthy extreme..I guess it&#39;s the whole idea of the path being narrow, not to wander too far on one side or the other...

I remember hearing a priest tell a story about two monks who traveled into town and fell into sin with a prostitute. As I recall, on the way back to the monestary, one monk was downcast, sad, and anxious, while the other had his head up and was calm. The anxious monk asked the other why he was so peaceful after what they had done. The calm monk said: &#34;you are still there in the city in your thoughts and dwelling upon the sin, but I&#39;ve prayed for forgiveness and gone on so that I&#39;m not dwelling in the city in my thoughts.&#34;

And there are these quotes from Homily IV of St Macarius the Great &#40;emphasis added by me&#41;:

&#34;If it seems to us difficult, because the practice of virtue is hard, and still more because of the insidious counsel of the adversary, behold, He is pitiful and longsuffering, waiting for our conversion; and when we sin, He holds His hand, in expectation of our repentance; and when we fall, He is not ashamed to take us back, as the prophet says, &#34;Shall they fall, and not arise? shall he turn away, and not return?&#34; Only let us be on the watch, making sure of a good intention, and let us be converted straight and fair, seeking help from Him, and He is ready to save. He is looking for our will to turn to Him with a fervent impulse, to the best of our power, and for faith and zeal that springs from a good purpose; the whole succeess of the endeavor is His own work in us. Let us then endeavor, beloved, like children of God, putting away all preoccupation, and carelessness, and sloth to be courageous and ready to follow after Him....

Let us eearnestly endeavor to come to Him with a truly converted heart, not despairing of salvation; for that of itself is a wrong thing and an iniquity, when the remembrance of sins takes such possession that it leads a man to despair, and to slackness and recklessness and sloth, so that he may not be converted and come to the Lord and find salvation, when the great kindness of the Lord is over all the race of men.

If it seems to us hard and impossible to be converted from such a multitude of sins, because we are in their possession--a thought which, as I said, is a device of wickedness and a hindrance to our salvation--let us remember and consider how our Lord, when in His goodness He sojourned here, made the blind to recover their sight, healed the palsied, cured all manner of disease, raised the dead when they were already in decay and disintegration, gave back hearing to the deaf, cast out a legion of devils from a single man, and restored him to his senses, though he was so far gone in madness. How much rather will He not convert a soul which returns to Him, seeking mercy from Him, and in need of His succour, and bring it into a happy release from passions, and the settled state of all virtue, and renewal of the mind, and change it to health and mental sight and thoughts of peace from the blindness and deafness and deadness of unbelief and ignorance and unconcern, bringing it to the sobriety of virtue and to purity of heart? He who created the body, made the soul also; and as in His sojourn on earth, when men came to Him seeking help and healing from Him, He granted ungrudgingly in His kindness according as their needs were, like a good physician, the only true physician, so it is with spiritual things.&#34;

[Fr Averky]

Rebecca,

I really don&#39;t see where any of the posts here are indicative of dwelling to much on one&#39;s sinfulness. Yet, we must not be casual and off-handed about them either. while your story of the two monks has a good point, still, it is implied that the &#34;calm&#34; monk is determined to speak to his spiritual father as soon as possible, and to ask God&#39;s forgiveness, and thus he has assurance. Each person handles how he perceives his sinfulness in a different manner: Your point about not dwelling on the sins themselves is well taken, for even in that &#34;:grief&#34; over having fallen there is a very subtle trap. The one monk refused to remain in the city, for here, I would say, the city represents the World and all its wiles. Having gone into the World and having been trapped by its lures, the one monk is determined to leave the city - the World - behind, and return to the silence and safety of the Desert.

In all of these points, yours, Adonis&#39; and Cales, the answer is clear and the same, and Cale speaks of it himself: Prayer -it is our firm wall of protection. I am amazed at all times how people do not make use of prayer, for it is a comfort, an education, a strenghthening, a purifying force, an avenue to the Holy spirit, and the path to salvation. We get to caught up with listening to our thoughts, and in the moind, the Evil One slips in quietly, and giving us much to consider, casts doubts and fears in, our minds. the person who fills his time with humble and firm prayer, has little time for foolish thoughts.

Father Averky

[Rebecca]

Father Averky,

If it seemed like I was trying to contradict you then you have my apologies. I am not good at expressing myself.

You are right that everyone handles how he perceives his own sinfulness differently. I am reminded of something totally unrelated to this forum that happened the other day where someone made a mistake, and was asked to take a different course of action. The person burst into tears and fell apart, even though others had made the same mistake, and had been asked to take a different course of action with the same tone and had not fallen apart at hearing the correction given in that tone.

I am not trying to suggest that is happening anywhere on this forum, but instead just pointing out that it is possible for such things to happen. I&#39;m sure you would agree with that, and I assume that&#39;s part of why you emphasize the importance of the priest that one confesses to actually knowing the person doing the confessing.

I agree with your statement that none of the posts here are indicative of dwelling too much on one&#39;s sinfulness.

[Fr Averky]

Dear Rebecca,

I in no way felt you were contradicting me, I simply wanted to clarify what I understood your good words to mean. Although the internet is marvelous, I find that my &#34;Brain-To-Keyboard&#34; response shorts out all too often, and I too have a difficult time collecting my thoughts to give a clear answer. I find myself having to go back and clarify what I have said, for only after I have posted my response, do I begin to really think clearly on the matter - just part of the aging process, I suppose.

All the best!

Father Averky

[Charalambos Andrew Geo]

Father Zacharias of the stavropegic monastery said that Father Sophroni said never surrender the mind to the thought, forgive me if i quoted incorrectly, they have a number of tapes that Father Zacharias made while giving a talk in the US maybe some of you have them, I recommend you all listen to some if you can or have the time i certanly should although am lazy.
In Christ

[Photini]

Hello friends-

I would like your thoughts on a matter here. As you all know, I was baptised a couple of weeks ago. I had my life confession. I was assured that all of my sins were washed away in the baptismal waters...

The trouble is that I am remembering sins that I did not recall during confession, that happened before my baptism. My first instinct says that I should confess these the next time I go or else it will keep bothering me...but then something else says that this would be doubt on my part of the forgiveness I received in baptism. Perhaps both of these are true?

With love in Christ,
Photini

[Fr Averky]

Photini,

Don&#39;t start.

Fr. Avewrky

[Owen Jones]

Dear Photini,

I personally try to shy away from offering people spiritual direction on the web, or taking it from others, since I just don&#39;t know who I am dealing with, etc. Why don&#39;t you simply go back to the same priest that heard your life confession and ask him?

[Photini]

Well, thanks anyway. I will go away now, and stop plagueing everyone.

[Ken McRae]

Father Zacharias of the stavropegic monastery said that Father Sophroni said never surrender the mind to the thought, forgive me if i quoted incorrectly, they have a number of tapes that Father Zacharias made while giving a talk in the US ...

I realize this is a very old post, that I'm replying to, but if anyone else knows about these tapes, by Fr. Zacharias, and where to obtain them from, I would very much appreciate that info. Thanks!

[Andreas Moran]

if anyone else knows about these tapes, by Fr. Zacharias, and where to obtain them from, I would very much appreciate that info. Thanks!

All recordings by Fr Zacharias are available (now, I think, in CD and MP3 formats) from his monastery here in Essex. The keeper of the bookshop's English section is Sister Magdalen. The 'phone number from outside the UK is 0044 1621 816471. (There is no website, email or FAX.) The talks were at a clergy retreat of the Antiochian Church held under Bishop Basil of Wichita. The talks are also the basis for three books Fr Zacharias has published which expand upon the talks.

[Paul Cowan]

I ordered this tape series last year. I was unable to find the link on the Antiochian site just now, perhpas Mike will be able to. It is a very moving piece, though the recording has somewhat much to be desired especially on tape 7. The result of an auditorium setting. The first tape to me was the most moving.

This is not a criticism of the fathers present, but when it came time to ask Fr. Zacharias questions, I thought to myself "I offer you these great words of Father Sophrony and is this the type of questions you ask of me?" Many of the questions seemed simplistic at best and some were down right self important.

The message though was to the heart and I cried the whole first tape. I highly recommend the series.

Paul

[Andreas Moran]

Just in case anyone hadn't made the connection, Father Sophrony gave the name of the father of St John the Baptist to Father Zacharias because he was appointed to be the spiritual father of the monastery which is, of course, dedicated to St John the Baptist. The monastery is dedicated to St John the Baptist because Father Sophrony wanted to prepare a way for the Lord in England but more so because of the necessity of repentance, which St John the Baptist preached, in the spiritual life. Today was one of the great feasts for the monastery here: the Nativity of St John the Baptist.

[Ken McRae]

The monastery is dedicated to St John the Baptist because Father Sophrony wanted to prepare a way for the Lord in England but more so because of the necessity of repentance, which St John the Baptist preached, in the spiritual life. Today was one of the great feasts for the monastery here: the Nativity of St John the Baptist.

No, I had not been aware of that little piece of history. Thank you for sharing it, as I found it both very interesting and illuminating. In regard to the prophetic message of "preparing a way for the Lord," it is interesting to note that St. John directs or levels that message at the unconverted; and that it indicates what unconverted souls must do to prepare themselves for the reception of Christ:

"As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, 'The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.' " (verse 3:4)

As you've pointed out, this is a message of repentance, principally directed at persons "outside the Church," and therefore refers to that which persons must do in order to prepare or qualify themselves for reception into the Church. The controversy seems to revolve around whether or not such persons, i.e those who have thus properly
prepared themselves for such a reception, are actually "saved," or not, prior to their "baptism."

That seems, at least, to have been a point of tension or controversy in my own thinking; though I am currently of the mind that all those who are thus properly "prepared" are not yet "safe," until they have entered fully into the Ark of Salvation. Thus one could describe the divine "grace" assisting the unconverted in their preparation to receive Christ as "preparatory" grace; as opposed to the deifying and transforming grace administered in the holy mysteries themselves.

Btw, many thanks to you Paul for the valuable info on how to acquire the recorded talks of Fr. Zacharias, which I will seek to acquire, the Lord permitting.

Ken

[Andreas Moran]

The controversy seems to revolve around whether or not such persons, i.e those who have thus properly
prepared themselves for such a reception, are actually "saved," or not, prior to their "baptism."

As Metropolitan Kallistos has said, we ought not to say, 'we are saved' at any stage, but rather, 'we are being saved'. Baptism is for the remission of sins; how can a person properly receive remission of their sins if they lack the humility to accept that they are sinners and need to repent? There are saints who seem not to have been baptised (for instance, our own St Alban) but the circumstances in which a person prepared for baptism is prevented from being baptised must be very exceptional. God alone knows but would He not look to the person's intention? With Him all things are possible.

[Ken McRae]

As Metropolitan Kallistos has said, we ought not to say, 'we are saved' at any stage, but rather, 'we are being saved'.

There is no question in my mind that Metropolitan Kallistos knows better than I, by far, the doctrine of salvation. However, we ought not to interpret him in a manner contradictory to Scripture, which clearly speaks of the mystery of salvation in three distinct tenses: past, present, and future. Below is a list of scripture texts each of which speaks of salvation in the past tense, as an accomplished fact of reality, experienced by all people of sound and sincere faith:-

01) Jude 1:5 - "I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not."

02) Titus 3:4-5 - "The kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

03) 1 Peter 3:21 - "Even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ."

04) 2 Tim. 1:8-9 "Be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works."

05) 2 Cor. 2:15 - "For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish."

06) 1 Cor. 1:18 - "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God."

07) 1 Cor. 15:1-2 - "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain."

08) Luke 18:42 - "And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee."

09) Luke 7:50 - "And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace."

Now, the above texts are in no way a denial of the ongoing process of salvation, obviously, for the very same St. Paul who says that God "saved us by the washing of regeneration (Titus 3)," also says that we should "work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Phil 2)". There is no denying the fact, though, (at least for myself,) that the above texts clearly speak of salvation in the past tense, as an accomplished fact, in all true believers.

However, in light of the fact that salvation is a life-long process, consisting of three distinct stages, then perhaps the above texts are examples of metonymy; in which "the whole is put for the part, (or) the part for the whole (http://www.freedomsring.org/ftc/chap8.html)." Still, in light of the above texts, I am generally inclined to interpret the words of Metropolitan Kallistos as meaning that it is a grave error to believe that salvation is not an ongoing struggle and labour, from the very moment we are baptized until the day we fall asleep in the Lord.



Baptism is for the remission of sins; how can a person properly receive remission of their sins if they lack the humility to accept that they are sinners and need to repent?

I must confess that you have lost me at this point, for I cannot see clearly how it applies to anything I said in the post to which you've responded; for I clearly spoke of, or referred only to those outside the Church who have both carefully diligently applied the Baptist's teaching to themselves, in fact, making "straight" "His paths" into their hearts and lives.



There are saints who seem not to have been baptised (for instance, our own St Alban) but the circumstances in which a person prepared for baptism is prevented from being baptised must be very exceptional. God alone knows but would He not look to the person's intention? With Him all things are possible.

Yes, I do entirely concur with what you have said here, in these words immediately above. Such extenuating circumstances must indeed be exceptional, disqualifying most (if not all) who had plenty of time and opportunity to be baptized, but never went through with it, for whatever reason(s). You have mentioned St. Alban, but what about the thief upon the cross? Was he baptized? Personally, I tend to think not, and so I must again concur with you, that with God all things are possible.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Regarding St. Alban and the Good Thief, and many others who died before they received a "proper" baptism, the Church (as I understand it) recognizes that these martyrs received their baptism through their martyrdom, sometimes referred to as "baptism by blood".

I suppose the Good Thief represents a special case, because he was not being killed specifically for his faith, but for his crimes. And yet, it is his declaration of Faith in the face of death that distinquishes him and gives him common cause with the witness of the martyrs.

[Michael Stickles]

I ordered this tape series last year. I was unable to find the link on the Antiochian site just now, perhpas Mike will be able to.

Couldn't find it on the Antiochian site, but OrthodoxTapes.org has the lecture series (http://www.orthodoxtapes.org/catalog/zacharou_zacharias.html) on cassette, CD, or MP3-CD. The series is called "The Ascetical & Pastoral Theology of St Silouan the Athonite and Archimandrite Sophrony."

In Christ,
Mike

[Ken McRae]

I suppose the Good Thief represents a special case, because he was not being killed specifically for his faith, but for his crimes. And yet, it is his declaration of Faith in the face of death that distinquishes him and gives him common cause with the witness of the martyrs.

As you correctly point out, the penitent thief was clearly not a martyr, and so while the baptism of blood may ( I say "may") rightly apply to St. Alban, as you say, it clearly does not apply to the penitent thief in question.

Whatever his connection to the martyrs might be, he was not baptised, unless you wish to qualify his tears of repentance as some kind of legitmate baptism. But how many persons found true faith only on their deathbed(s), and shed many a tear for their sins as they breathed their dying breath? Are they too in Paradise?

It has been said of this penitent thief (by Blessed Augustine, I think, but I'm not sure of that,) that since his case is unique and there is none other like it in all of the Scriptures, that none should presume upon the mercy of God to leave repentance til their dying breath; but that since there is, on the other hand, this one case given us, that none should ever despair of the mercy of God, should He grant them the grace of true repentance in their dying hour!

[Paul Cowan]

But how many persons found true faith only on their deathbed(s), and shed many a tear for their sins as they breathed their dying breath? Are they too in Paradise?

God sees the heart. Who are we to judge? May God have mercy on me on my death bed. One of Fr. Pat Reardon's homilys on Ancient Faith Radio ( I can't seem to find it just now) talks of the Prodigal son and his older brother who hates "deathbed confessions". He specifically talks about the good thief. It really amkes you think about forgivenss and compassion of God even to theos who come in the 11th hour.

Paul

[M.C. Steenberg]

In point of fact, Metropolitan Kallistos has often said that we should speak of salvation in a threefold manner: we have been saved, we are being saved, and we will be saved. Christ has already done something; he is doing something; he will do something. To speak only of one aspect -- whichever it may be -- without the others, is a sure sign of error.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Andreas Moran]

I took Metropolitan Kallistos's words from his book, 'How are we saved?' I understood the words in question to mean that salvation is a continuum, embracing past present and future. I further understood the words to be a way of avoiding what I believe is the Protestant position, namely that one can think of onesself as saved. How are we to understand the words of scripture which say we are saved in an Orthodox way which avoids the Protestant notion?