Holy Communion

[Vicki Dim]

Hello Everyone,

I'm new to this site and I have a question for anybody who can or is willing to answer this for me.

I have been talking recently with a few people who are very weak in faith and don't particularly see Holy Communion as something sacred or more importantly they don't understand that it IS the Blood and Body of Christ.

How do you relate the message that one cannot become sick or catch the next person's illness by partaking in communion?

It's absurd that this can happen, because it is blessed in the service and transformed into what we Orthodox believe it to be.

With this SARS epidemic I've heard some say that they won't take communion for fear of "catching" it.

In Christ,
Vicki

[Owen Jones]

I'm sorry to disagree, Vicki, but there is nothing in the Church's eucharistic theology that I am aware of that says that the bread and wine cease to become bread and wine, or that we can't possibly pick up some virus from someone else from receiving communion. I've heard all kinds of nonsense about things that the eucharist is supposedly supposed to inoculate ourselves from. I heard one priest say that it is impossible for Greeks to become alcoholics!!! Believe me, I've known a few who also take communion regularly. No, the eucharist is spiritual food for our souls. In that sense, a Christian WHO IS PRACTICISING HIS FAITH is deified and eucharist is both a cause and an effect of that deification, and as such, we are in a better condition to resist both physical and spiritual disease. But just as the eucharist is not an inoculation against sin, it is not an inoculation against physical diseases. If there were an outbreak of SARS in a particular parish or community, it would be prudent for the priest to alter the communion discipline for a short period even, just to be on the safe side. Except that SARS is transmitted, apparently, through the air mostly. The chances of getting it through communion are probably nil. Which means, perhaps, that the person you cite has other chronic irrational fears that the spiritual food of communion could help her with. But again, one has to be practising one's faith for communion to have meaning and power. In fact, St. Paul says communion will make us sick, maybe even kill us, if we are not diligently practising our faith.

[Andonis]

i disagree Owen. we may as well request signed consent in the form of a disclaimer, before giving it out, so that the preist can avoid possible litigation. i have never in my life, heard of a case of anybody contracting anything from receiving the "blood of Christ", which is as far as i am concerned blood that cannot be contaminated. this is crucial to the mystery of this sacrament. as for whether or not it becomes spiritual fuel for the faithful has a lot to do with how diligently they are practising their faith.

God forbid that we begin to approach to receive communinion with trepidation, other than that stemming from a feeling of unworthiness...

[Lawrence]

1st Prayer of St Basil the Great

...O Lord Jesus Christ my God, may the communion of Thy most pure and life-creating mysteries not bring me into judgement, nor may I become weak in soul and body by partaking in an unworthy manner, but grant me to receive communion of Thy holy things without condemnation even to my very last breath...

The prayerbook makes a very good textbook. Or as St Theophan the Recluse decribes it as our phrase book to learn how to pray.

[John Wilson]

I agree Andonis. The Eucharist must be approached with faith and not with logic and reason.

I'm reminded of a discussion regarding the real presence of Christ's body and blood in the bread and wine on an Evangelical forum. One person had stated that bread rots and wine goes bad to which I responded that the Eucharist does not. In the Divine Liturgy of Great Thursday, a portion of the gifts is put aside for emergencies. It is kept inside the church for the whole year yet does not spoil. It is because of this real presence of Christ's body and blood inside the church building that we make the sign of the cross whenever we pass an orthodox church. The original poster's response was that I was insulting their intelligence with such a fairy tale. Alas, much of what God has done and continues to do is insulting to logic and reason.

I remember reading a statement by Monk Paision regarding Agiasmo (Holy water). He said that the Roman Catholics put preservatives in their Agiasmo to keep it from going bad. Orthodox do not put preservatives in the Agiasmo and it does not go off. Not only that, Orthodox put Agiasmo in bad water to make it clean so they can drink it.

Gerontissa Gavrilla, when living and working in India as a lay person, made the sign of the cross over all the water she and her companions were about to drink and none of them ever fell ill. Yet missionaries who always boiled whatever water they drank were constantly coming down with dissentry.

I for one will happily take communion after the communing of an ill person. If I do not trust God, how can he increase my faith?

John.

[Effie Ganatsios]

John, Hi this is Effie.

Have you read Gerontissa Gavrilla's book? I've read it in Greek but I know that a translation of it into English was planned. Is that available now? I also have her two audio cassettes and often listen to them.

A practical note concerning communion wine : wouldn't the wine itself sterilize the spoon the priest uses?

Effie

[Fr Averky]

Dear Owen,

I very much agree with Adonis. A bishop of the Moscow Patriarchate who I met when I was a young man in san Francisco told me of an attempt by the Soviet Regime durijg the 50's to prohibit people from receiving the Divine Mysteries during a severe flu epidemic, which would have set a very bad precedent. A renowned Soviet doctor wrote an article in Pravda, denouncing the proposed ban as sheer rubbish, stating that in the entire history of the Russian land, there was no record of any illness being passed on by people having receiving communion. At that time the Church could in no way defend herself, but soon eminent scientists and doctors joined in, and the plan was dropped.

In the life of St. John of Shanghai, it is told how he once took communion to a person who had been bitten by a dog found to have rabies. The person was in an advance stage of infection, and was delirious. When Vladika gave the man communion, he spat it out. Vladika picked up the Holy Particle, and consummed it. The man's relatives were terrified, fearing for Vladika's life. Vladika assured them that it was the Body of Christ, and they should have no fear.and that the sick man would recover. Vladika suffered no ill effects, and the man began to improve that night, and soon went home completely healed.

When the American public began to become aware of AIDS in the early 80's some parishes of one Orthodox jurisdiction began to give communion with disposable plastic spoons, causing several distasters, as the spoons were frequently dropped, spilling the Blood of Christ on the carpet. In time, older parishioners, said that this had to come to an end - did the priests no have faith in the saving grace of the Divine Mysteries? Over the centuries, new and mysterious illness have broken out, but there is no record of Orthodox Christians dropping like flies from having received the Mysteries. As we approach the Divine Mysteries with love and fear, we ask God that we receive them not to our condemnation, but"for the healing of soul and body." The Mysteries are Divine medicine, and I for one, have felt great physical relief from my many infirmities after having received that Divine gift, especially from the hands of our blessed Metropolitan, a pure and most holy man.

God bless you for your Faith, Adonis, sometimes I read your postings, and smile and shake my head because of your youth, but at moments like this, you soar like an eagle! Christ is our God, and He would not allow us to suffer illness from His own Precious Body, and His Most Pure Blood. This I firmly believe. The Mysteries are a mystery indeed, being of God, beyond practical and medical considerations. Owen, I would not criticize you in this matter, for I have seen your faith many times in many postings. I suggest that you and all us of continue to receive the Divine Mysteries, with faith, putting our trust in God. We should Fear more the death of our soul, striving always for "The one thing needful."

Love in Christ,

Hieromonk Averky

[Owen Jones]

Well said, Father. My position is hereby revised.

[Richard Leigh]

Hi everybody,

I enjoyed all these posts but I'm not sure Vicki's question was sufficiently answered, though defense of the proposition that the Lord's own body and blood cannot bear, much less convey disease no doubt gave her some "amunition" to use to reclaim those friends she is concerned about. It seems their real problem is the difficulty to believe that the holy things are what the Lord said they were, his body and blood.

Dear Vicki, realizing that only the Lord gives faith, I would still try to encourage theirs and pray the Lord would be in my words as I asked them whether they believed that they, with you and myself were part of the Lord's own body. If they did, I would ask them why, if they didn't I would explain that baptism into Holy Church is baptism into, and thus membership of his body, as explained in St. Paul's epistle to the Ephesians (among other places in the Holy Scriptures).

I would then remind them that whatever of their food and drink they completely digested (excluding the refuse the body eliminates) becomes, or turns into, their own bodies, and therefore into part of the body of the Lord. That would explain how some bread and some wine truly becomes Christ's body and blood, as it did in Christ's earthly life of what he himself ate and drank. But if your friends' own being Christ's body depends simply on a word of Christ that he who believes and is baptized will be saved, and St. Paul is inspired by the Holy Spirit to assure that we are baptized into Christ's death and resurrection, that it is his very body of which we are a part, if it is because of Christ's word that this is true, why are his words, said of mere bread and wine, "this is my body...this my blood" not also true? Proof that these are not mere figure of speech is that nowhere else is a lesser given to represent a greater, as it is here. More important is the reason he gave his body and blood in this way. They were given to convey unity with the Father, which Christ alone is, but which can only come to us sinful human beings as forgiveness, hence reconciliation and this we are told in the epistle to the Hebews cannot come without the shedding of blood. Hence he gives himself to us as the acceptible Passover sacrifice, the blood of which is signal to God that we are his own, which can only be true to those who believe, that is, have faith, and eating and drinking his body and blood given and shed to bring this about is the soul of the faith we share and confess. If we didn't believe we would be in a heap of trouble, but thank God for his gift of faith.

About those diseases that might or might not be passed from person to person in the holy things? In St. Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to say that many of that congregation were ill, and some had died precisely because of a breach in their community (common unity). There was disharmony between the believers, there was eating and drinking in the accompanying Agape feast done in greed and selfishness, such that the well to do ate more than their share of the food before the arrival of the poor and lacking, keeping them lacking even more. This, or any kind of disharmony in the body of Christ is reprehensible, and fortunately, because our heavenly Father loves us so much, he does not refrain from chastising us when we need it most, and this in physical illness in accord with the moral one. But the disease will be coming through, if not on account of the very lack of faith, exhibited in its soul, the lack of right behavior to one another (and thus, impiety to God). This is not to say that beliveving the wrong things about God and his church are not also disharmonies needing the refinement of our Father's chastening hand, for surely believing the wrong thing about God is believing in another god, if only our eyes could be brought to see it.

In the meantime, if Christ's shed blood of his crucified and impaled body brings healing of our moral illness, the forgiveness of sin, it most surely brings healing of the physical illness in accord with it. There can be no other way.

So, Vicki, I would end by encouraging your friends to hear Christ say, "Take heart my sons, my daughters, your sins are forgiven, your faith has saved you," and then his words "take eat.." and to believe his next words, "this is my body...this my blood."

Richard

[Vicki Dim]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to thank you all for your help and your very informative responses. Especially, thank you to Hiermonk Averky and Richard!

At times I feel I have a blind faith, not knowing exactly what the meaning is behind the praxis.

The mysteries of our Orthodox faith are truly alive and real in everyway.

It's very difficult to find people who today are orthodox and believe! Sadly, there's just so much ambiguity out there, that makes a person who is "spiritually young" question the significance of many things.

[Fr Averky]

Dear In Christ Richard,

I was deeply moved by the beauty and clarity of your answer - thank you very much. I am going to print it out and put it in my files

As you say, simply convincing people that the words Our Saviour are true, and that The Holy Apostles know of what they speak is very difficutlt.

Dear Vicki,

While we should not have "blind" faith, we can surely be "simple" in our faith . Just think, Our God has provided us with this community, wherein good people like Richard, Adonis, Owen, and so many others share with us their knowledge, faith, and love for God. The Holy Spirit, "Who Art everywhere present and fillest all things, " inspires the hearts of those who love God, sending them to teach and comfort us while in this vale of tears. Our Saviour said, "Seek, and ye shall find, knock, and it shall be opened to thee:" as Orthodox Christians, we have the possibility to constantly learn and grow in knowledge and in Grace. We are blessed indeed!

Hieromonk Averky