Question about becoming a deacon

[Les Green]

Greetings everyone,

I am a newly baptised and crismated Orthodox Christian (Jan. 7, 2003) and I find myself drawn incredibly strongly to the diaconate and possibly priesthood. I hope this doesn't sound too nuts coming from someone who is basically a newborn spiritually but I was wondering if anyone has any tips for where I should start reading to prepare for the diaconate. I attend the liturgy as often as possible and I am reading a great deal of material by the church fathers etc. I will be discussing this with my priest and my spiritual father but I was curious what perspective those of you out there might add.

In Christ
-Nyte

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Les Green,

Welcome to the Discussion Community. It is good to have you here.

Regarding ordination into the diaconate, this is something for which the 'procedure' varies from diocese to diocese, jurisdiction to jurisdiction. There is a set rite of ordination performed by the bishop; but the actual 'approach' to diaconal ordination is something that varies widely.

On a more general level, I would encourage patience in questions about ordination. An emotional drive towards priestly service is common among new male converts to the Church; but it is best, I think, to make a 'forced patience' in this regard be part of one's ascesis as a newly received member. Take some time to be Orthodox... to absorb and enter into this life. The Church will still be around in a few years, and if the call to a life in the clergy is truly from God, then so one will be in due time. A few years of an intense life of worship, prayer and the mysteries is invaluable food for the present.

INXC, Matthew

[Owen Jones]

Dear Les,


Fight off this urge with everything you've got. It will destroy your life. Use cold showers, hair shirts, anything and everything it takes.

[Les Green]

Matthew,

Thanks indeed for the excellent advice. I did not want my first post to be a "this is my life" post or a long missive of the how and why I feel like this but I should say that in looking back I have been Orthodox my whole life. I, of course, did not know that I was Orthodox since by the wonders of the American public education system I did not even know something as ancient and important as Orthodoxy even existed. My privately held core beliefs are the same as the core beliefs of Orthodoxy. I have always been attracted to the priesthood, I just was never able to reconcile what I felt had to be true about God with the various beliefs and approaches of the Protestant and Catholic places I have been a part of. A few months ago, I experienced a soul blossoming awakening so intense all I could do was cry out, I know you are here Lord, standing so close I can feel it and I will take up your cross and never deny you again. That occured during the first Divine Liturgy I ever attended. Things have never been the same since.

I guess what I am looking for are things I *definitly* should not miss in my reading. A good example is someone told me to pickup a copy of St. Athanasius' On the Incarnation and read it before Nativity. I got a copy and finished reading it on the evening of the 23rd. Fantastic book and I am thankful I read it and will probably do so each year before Nativity. I know any approach to the Diaconate will be goverened by God and perhaps even though I feel the pull 15 years from now I will still be sitting in the pews. So maybe I should have made the subject title "tell me what books and Fathers were important in your spiritual developement".

In Christ
-L

[Justin]

I'm glad things are going so well for you! http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif I had similar--though more gradual--experience as I discovered Orthodoxy and explored it. Orthodoxy seems to be really good at getting us to notice what we should have probably noticed in the first place. Thank God for helpful nudges in the right direction.

Regarding what texts to read.. my goodness, there's too many to list! One thing that I could suggest would be to go to a site that has patristic online (e.g., CCEL (http://www.ccel.org/fathers2)) and just start reading. Just dedicate a certain portion of time and go there every day. The only other suggestion I'd give right now would be to make sure you can read the lives of the saints as much as you can. My wife and I are using the Prologue currently, which we highly recommend, though there are certainly more in-depth collections out there, and lots of books about individual saints are sold at Orthodox book stores (many of which can be found online (http://www.geocities.com/stainlesskings888/Orthodoxproducts.html)). A book on Saint John of Shanghai and San Francisco wold be a good place to start, but that's just my opinion http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif

[Justin]

Les,

Doh, I forgot to mention what I had originally wanted to say (regarding the first post)! As was said, take your time with the Deacon stuff, if it's God's will it will happen. Until then, try to learn the services, sing in the choir if you can, even maybe become a reader in your Church.

Btw, you can wear a hair shirt AND be a Deacon http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif Kidding aside though, Owen's words shouldn't be ignored. While attraction to certain aspects of the clergy can be powerful, it's unhealthy to mistake this attraction for something it's not. The clergy can be rough, and it can be trying, and it very well could cost you your soul, as Owen suggests. If it's of God, though, he will supply the grace. Good luck in discerning whether it is of God or not http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif

[Justin]

Er... three posts in a row, sorry about this... I didn't want to misrepresent Owen though, and I saw that I had possibly done so. He said it could "destroy your life," which isn't necessarily the same thing I said about the soul. I think he was correct to an extent, though, in what he said, it is certainly a possibility. Let's not have an overly romantic notion about the clergy. The clergy certainly don't! ;) (Ps. I say all this as someone who is also trying to discern a call to the Priesthood)

[George Hawkins]

Dear Les,

I think it is important to wait a bit, maybe a year or two. I am in a similair situation, in that I became Orthodox 2 years ago (Japanese Orthodox). After a lot of thought,consultation with the Priests etc, I will God willing start at Seminary in Tokyo in September. Thanks to God, my parents and all who are near to me are very supportive of this, but it took me a lot of time to actually decide on this, and my first reaction when it was suggested to me that this could be a path I should perhaps follow was 'No way!'. Even now i wonder if I am not rushing, but I do feel that this is the path God wishes me to choose.

I also have a friend who is only newly Baptised, but who wants to me a monk. He is only 19, so me and several others have urged him to think very carefully, and to make certain in his soul this is right, and not a vague, romantic notion.

In Christ,
George

[Thomas]

Welcome, George. You may be our first Kiwi on the boards......... great to have you here!

[Oana Vlad]

Dear Owen,

Aren`t you a little bit too harsh? If every man feeling a call to become a member of clergy followed your advice, there would be no priestes or deacons at all! Just give him a chance!!! Time will tell if he`s born for that or not.

Oana

[Thomas Garland]

I don't think Owen was too harsh, if he did overstate his case a little! Both Owen's and Matthew's advice are surely the best for any very new convert.

I myself was chrismated only 2 years ago. Like many well-meaning people who join a new organisation (whether church or otherwise), I very much wanted to 'get involved', to 'make my contribution', though in my case I have no leanings towards the priesthood or monasticism.

So I joined choirs, got involved in the running of my main church, made the odd contribution to newsgroups (...), etc, etc. But in the end, I've come to realise that, however well-meant, at the heart of 'wanting to make a contribution' is a result of pride. And now I feel I am experiencing the consequences of that pride through always having to meet people's expectations of me, etc.


I actually go to 3 churches in turn, in 2 of which I sing and get involved in the parish life in some way. But in the third, I've deliberately avoided involvement (even though they would probably like a male voice in the choir!) and I have to say that this is the church where I find greatest spiritual sustenance - and I am far from being an 'outsider', despite being 'uninvolved'.

The lesson for me is that, when you are new, it is best to fight these desires to put your 'self' into the church and realise, as St Silouan advises, that the only way to Christ is humility.

As an interesting sidelight, our great pastor in Britain, Metropolitan Antony of Sourozh, has told an amusing story of how he - reluctantly - got to be made a priest:

I remember the reason why I was chosen by my bishop in France to become a priest. I was his doctor in those days. One day he said to me, ‘You know, I’m going to make a priest of you.’ I looked in amazement and said, ‘Why send me, I have no theological training, I have no theological knowledge, I know nothing, I don’t even know the services, because when I come to church I shut my eyes and am carried by the service, but I don’t even know what happens. He said, ‘That doesn’t really matter, you see, my reason is this: you have got a good job as a doctor, so I will be in no need of paying you a salary. In addition to this, I can send you to far distant parishes, and you will pay your fares.’ So this was a very convincing argument. But worse was to come. On the day of my ordination to the diaconate, I heard a conversation between my parish priest, Father Mikhail Vestny, and the bishop. The bishop said, ‘How long do you want him to be your deacon?’ ‘Oh,’ said Father Mikhail, ‘as little as possible. He has neither ear nor voice and he will ruin all our choir.’ Then the bishop looked at him and said, ‘I’ll make a priest of him next Sunday.’ So, that is how things happened.

So ordination doesn't always come about through earnest seeking!

with love,

Thomas

[Margaret Jackson-Roberts]

But the road to and resolution for entering the priesthood should surely be severely tested, both by the individual concerned and by the church authorities. What the recent scandals afflicting the RC church would seem to indicate is that the whole approach to sacral formation needs a thorough overhaul and re-examination of motive, including that of the recruiter: has the unspoken aim become simply to increase the numbers of "vocations", whether true or false in origin? What we seem often to get in practice is admission to seminaries of some individuals who lack the moral stamina to sacrifice their innate shortcomings as human beings in the interests of a higher goal, because of a general shortage of priests in the West. I have known of one or two of those in the RC communion (not that it is unknown elsewhere). At least one subsequently became a practising psychotherapist after his laicisation, so perhaps on a charitable reading that meant his pastoral gifts needed to be exercised outside the narrower confines of a parish community. Or, more probably, that he could make more money outside the priesthood.

the seeker

[Moses Anthony]

When God calls you, He doesn't uncall you! (something I learned while still a Protestant).
I was involved in "street witnessing", and was praying about what to say to the people my best friend and I would meet, God said, "Preach"! I protested saying, "They will laugh me off the streets", to which God again said, "Preach". I've read the Scripture that says all Christians are called to "witness". I've heard a preacher say in a sermon that the word preach literally means to cast abroad. I began to prepare as all good 'preacher boys would, but stopped when I failed my first semester of Greek. I went so far as to tell God that if He indeed had called me, I was forsaking that call. I then pursued and accquired, a degree in Fine Arts. As some of you will recall from my past sharing, it was during this time I found a verse in Exodus. A class in discovering your spiritual gift happened along the way. All this happened while I was a Protestant in another city.

When my former priest asked me to come with him in forming a new group he was forming, I asked what my involvement would be. He asked me, "Have you ever thought of being a deacon?" That was at the beginning of my journey.

Never have I actively (other than the days mentioned above) pursued being a pastor/preacher/priest, and now my Bishop has tonsured and ordained me a subdeacon.

A person can be used by God whether or not they are called to be a priest, it's a part of being omnipotent.

Has the Church ever tested me, not that I am aware, but God still is, and the requirements for being a deacon have only just begun, the successful completion of which is itself no guarantee of ordination. This is why I say

the unworthy servant
Moses