Spiritual fathers

[Justin]

Does anyone know where there is good information regarding spiritual fathers, their roles, etc.? I've found things here and there (like in "The Orthodox Way"), and references to obscure articles in various bibliographies, but does anyone know of a good book or pamphlet on this subject? I ask because I am quite confused by the extremely different approaches I see in the Church. One Priest I know becomes the spiritual father of anyone he baptizes (and/or chrismates), and he takes the role as spiritual father very very seriously. Another Priest essentially tried to dissuade me from seeking a spiritual father, saying (as part of the discussion) that most new American converts aren't mature enough for a spiritual father anyway. Can anyone help?

[Harvey]

Justin, I don't know about any books (I am sure other people here will be able to give you some titles), but I think that the comments you heard from the one priest who said most converts aren't mature enough for a spiritual father are definitely wrong. It seems like being "immature" means that people definitely *should* have a spiritual father!!

[Justin]

Harvey, I'm thinking perhaps that the Priest who said that had different ideas as to the role (and influence) that a spiritual father should have. When he was talking about this (in connection with the immaturity) he mentioned a (hypothetical) situation in which the wife was pregnant and was going to die if she had the baby. In this situation, the Priest told his "spiritual children" that they could not, under any circumstances, interfere in such a way as to purposely end the life of the child (even with the mother's life being at risk), since this amounted to murder. The question then was, how many new American converts (who've been conditioned to be independent and think for themselves their whole lives) could simply submit to their spiritual father's word, knowing that most likely the woman would die?

Perhaps that example seems a bit unlikely, but it is only the most extreme example of many situations in which we would probably have a hard time being obedient. Perhaps a new job is offered in another state, paying 30% more money than you are making now, and the spiritual father does not give you his blessing to move. Perhaps you wish to publish a theological book and your spiritual father forbids it. Perhaps you want to go out with Susie Q from down the street and your spiritual father forbids it.

Perhaps this is not what you understand the role of the spiritual father to be, but it is the role that many seem to take, and that I think the Priest I mentioned in the first post takes. In essence, in this way of thinking, when you ask someone to be your spiritual father, you are giving them influence and a final say in everything that could either positively or negatively effect your soul. In cases where harm could come to your soul (like getting mixed up with [aka dating] the wrong girl), the spiritual father would have the final say. The people who hold to such a role for the spiritual father would say that if you can't handle that type of relationship, then you shouldn't seek a spiritual father. They would say that you should just talk to a Priest and ask for advice, that Priest preferrably being the man you confess to.

I don't know that I agree with this view of a spiritual father, but that's why I am hoping to get more info to help me better understand how the spiritual father relationship has historically worked. I do know that I'm more comfortable (practically speaking and otherwise) with the above outlook than I am with the "spiritual guru" type of relationship that seems to be in place in some Churches today. In essence, the "spiritual guru" has no real authority or influence, but is just someone giving out advice at the request of the "spiritual child" (falsely so-called). Now I've probably said more than I should have... forgive me.

Justin

[Owen Jones]

Dear Justin,

American converts to Orthodoxy are far more likely to seek out a spiritual father and to take everything a spiritual father says literally as if it would be disobedient if he didn't. Ethnic Orthodox in the U.S. are far less likely to have a spiritual father, let alone go to confession on a regular basis.

The writings of the desert fathers are somewhat helpful, even though it applies to monks, in that the standards are higher than we could possibly bear today, but a true spiritual father does not rob a man of his self-will. Is not a tyrant. Is Christ a tyrant? He makes demands on his, but ultimately what he does is restore our free will and delineates our choices in stark terms so it's hard for us to run away from our responsibility.
Also, while on one level all Christians have the same standard, on another level, there are different ones depending on our circumanstances and our calling, which a spiritual father must take into consideration.

Let's keep our eye on the ball. The purpose of obedience is not to be obedient. Anyone can issue orders or be obedient in a formalistic sense. That's missing the point entirely.

If you are not ready to change, go and sin some more. That's the reality of it. If you aren't ready, then no spiritual father is going to be able to dictate to you. When you are ready to change, then all the spiritual father really does is serve as a mid-wife.

[Moses Anthony]

It would seem that the 'spiritual babes' mentioned by the apostle Paul are those who are in need of a spiritual father. There are those who are new in Christ that dislpay a spiritual acumen well beyond their years. It SEEMS, that not only the immature but also those who for some reason cannot ex-
perience victory in an area, would also be candidates for a 'spiritual father'.
The best advise I can currently think of on what a spiritual father should be, is the priest found in the book Father Arseny: Prisoner, Priest, Spiritual Father.

Aus
Moses

[A. Marinis]

The relationship between oneself and their spiritual father is special. He is the one you confide in and he is the one who guides you 'on the road'. In my personal experience my spiritual father, Father Alexis (who is the priest at my local church), has never ordered but is always a guide.

However, the most important aspect of this relationship is love. Father Alexis always gives such a warm welcome to all with such love that you always look forward to your next meeting.

I have read it somewhere and I would have to agree, without love there is no spiritual father 'relationship'.

[M.C. Steenberg]

I have read it somewhere and I would have to agree, without love there is no spiritual father 'relationship'.

This is certainly true. It is true, also, on a less-specific level: without love there is no relationship, bar none, among any two individuals. The relationship between spiritual father and child is one of love grounded in humility and obedience. Such should be the state of all human relationships, but we try especially hard to accomplish it in at least this particular instance.

INXC, Matthew

[Justin]

Some good points http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif (though I still don't really "get" the spiritual father thing since it seems to differ so much from parish to parish and group to group.)

[Owen Jones]

Justin,

Orthodoxy is not about rules and regulations. It's about life. It's about living the most natural life that God made us to live. But we are inept at it most of the time, like children. So we need spiritual parents just like we need biological parents. These days there are not too many people who stand to offer good spiritual guidance, however, since this tradition is not being passed on very diligently. I don't know if you've noticed it or not, but we live in the first secular age of history.

So short of joining some monastery on Athos or Russia, we mostly muddle through, and rely on our parish priest to hear our confessions, and pick up the writings of the fathers, and, hopefully, try not to take ourselves too seriously as if we really know what we are talking about regarding spiritual things.

Owen Jones

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear all,

Just looking back over this thread, I'd like to echo Owen's comments from 25 June; namely that a good 'picture' of what a spiritual father is meant to be can be gleaned from the Sayings of the Desert Fathers (http://www.monachos.net/monasticism/desert_fathers.shtml), who in general practiced a life of strict obedience to a given elder (i.e. spiritual father). Bear in mind, when reading the texts of this lengthy volume (only a few selections are offered online, and most of these are not focused on the role of the elder; the printed editions contain the whole collection) that they are aimed specifically at the obedience of the monastic, and thus the role of the fathers is fit somewhat into this unique mould. But the general character of the spiritual father as one who prompts obedience by example and insight, who corrects both with encouragement, admonishment and at times chastisement, who works and prays for the salvation of those in his care -- such a character comes through despite the fact that the majority of readers are not themselves monastics.

A few modern books on the role of the spiritual father are also available, which I will endeavour to reference here in the near future.

INXC, Matthew

[M.C. Steenberg]

As a bit of material for reflection on this theme of spiritual fathers, here are a few quotations from the tradition:


'Someone asked Abba Paësius, "What should I do about my soul, because it is insensitive and does not fear God?" He said to him, "Go and join a man who does fear God, and live near him; he will teach you, too, to fear God."' (Sayings of the Desert Fathers, Abba Poemen on Abba Paësius, 65)

'Abba Poemen said, "Do not judge yourself, but live with someone who knows how to behave himself properly."' (ibid., Abba Poemen, 73)

[Concerning the type of person who should be sought out for spiritual direction:] 'On the subject of God, it is right that only someone worthy of God because of his virtue should speak.' (St Isaac of Syria, Saying 41.1)

[On the true 'qualifications' for a spiritual father:] 'Abba Moses said, "It is a good thing ... not to hide your thoughts from the fathers. But you should not tell them to just anyone; you should confess them to spiritual masters who have descrimination, not simply to those whose hair has grown white with age. Many who have looked to age as a guide, and then revealed their thoughts, have not only remained unhealed but have been driven to despair because of the inexperience of those to whom they confessed."' (St John Cassian the Roman, Conferences, as recorded in the Philokalia)

INXC, Matthew

[M.C. Steenberg]

Back to the original question posted to this thread, another exceptionally rich resource in gaining insight into the role of the spiritual father and his disciples/children is the Ascetic Discourse of St Neilos the Ascetic (found most accessibly in the Philokalia, vol. i, Faber Eng. ed. pp. 200-250).

For those who have not read this relatively short text, it contains an exceptional amount of information on the role of the spiritual father. It is, as with most of the texts in the Philokalia, written specifically for monastics and thus contains some information that is not directly applicable to those who have not taken on the monastic yoke. But also like the other texts of this volume, the monastic focus of the Ascetic Discourse does not prevent it in the slightest from offering guidance to every one.

INXC, Matthew

[David Galloway]

It seems to me that teaching someone of spiritual father is similar to teaching someone of tradition. When many talk of tradition they mention that there is "Big-T" Tradition and "Little-T" tradition, that is, things that are dogma and things that are pious customs.

From my limited understanding it seems that some monasteries have a spiritual elder, a starets who is considered to be the Spiritual Father for that monastery and perhaps for that area. This was a person who(usually unwillingly) served as a source of guidance for monks and pilgrims. This person would not usually be a Father Confessor, to use a Roman Catholic term, but rather a sage that many seek when they cannot find answers to burning spiritual questions through their normal elders.

On the other hand, it has become popular in many areas to refer to the priest to whom one confesses is their spiritual father even if that person does not have a special relationship with that priest. Perhaps the literal title of Spiritual Father(starets) refers to my first example and the figurative title of spiritual father refers to that priest which one seeks for repentance to God. Of course, this is just a theory, and I could be completely wrong.