Tattoos and earings

[Kosmas Damianides]

"`Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD." Leveticus 19:28

[Leandros]

There were some ancient customs in pagan religions (http://whitton.members.atlantic.net/body/tattoo_history.htm) that included tattoo marking and skin cutting, for the benefits of the deads.

These customs are forbidden in Leveticus 19:28, with the categorical statement "I am the Lord", do not perform customs of fake gods.

[Kosmas Damianides]

Indeed!!! WE SHOULD NEVER PERFORM PAGAN PRACTICES

[Jerry Michel]

I think the issue is the intent of the markings. Would a tatoo bearing the images of Christ and the Saints fall under the same rules?

[Kosmas Damianides]

Dear Jerry,

I was under the same impression for a while, since our churches have pictures on them. However, after reading more on this, now I am convinced that our bodies which are described by Holy Scripture as temples of the Holy Spirit of God should be clean and pure.

Tattoos and deliberately damaging the body with piercings, body-rings, nose-rings and ear-rings is like defacing the temple of God.

Did you know that deliberately damaging your country's currency whether coins or notes is a criminal offence? Even writing on a coin in orrder to play a game of 2up is against the law, even though this is not permanent damage. It's like grafitti. No matter how honourable the grafitti is, it is still grafitti. It may be ok on a canvas or on a wall in your own house, but not on someone elses wall, not in someone elses house.

SO how much more should we respect what God has given us - our bodies which are given as gifts, but do not realy belong to us, they are God's. It is God's temple we are talking about the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Our bodies belong to God, just as our souls also do. Both ought to be honoured and respected if we wish to please God. Fortunately now we can remove tattoos with laser. Piercings can heal in time.

In Christ

Kosmas

[Jerry Michel]

Kosmas,

First lets agree that the upper most part of your post concerning what is and isn't legal for currency is a moot point.

Second, I totally agree with your assertion that our bodies are gifts from God and should be respected. But, I would like to assert that our ability to be different are as much a part of that gift as are our phisical attributes. Having the ability to display our individuality is not abhorent in Gods eyes. God gave us the temple to manage, he never forbade us to decorate it.

The pictures on the inside of the church never matter more than the intent of those pictures.

"Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD." Leveticus 19:28... The intent of this action (tatoo/marks) is to give undue reverance and a mystical power for the dead and away from God.

Tatoos and other markings for the benefit of beautifying the outside of the flesh is no different than painting a Temple.

Remember, the power of the Bible is not held in its bindings or cover but in the words on the inside.

[Leandros]

One must ask himself/herself: 'why am I drawing the image of Christ/Saints on my skin ?'

Of course, this is a personal question and the answered can be given only by each specific person.

Every Christian, regarding this issue, must take in account St Paul teaching:

(2 Corinthians, Chapter 3:1-18)

"Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord."

[Jerry Michel]

Leandros,
The image of Christ and the Saint were simply an example. But as you said it is a personal question, which goes back to my case of intent? Being tattooed and pierced is all a matter of intent. Are you doing it to shock, frighten create hates to glorify an un-holy alliance? Then that is wrong and would be wrong under Leviticus. But, again I say that the act of "decorating the body" is only a wrong if the intent of the art/decoration is to take away from the GLORY of God....

[Antonios]

My brother had a tattoo of a yin-yang, pagan-like symbol on his arm placed when we was younger. Since then, we has drawn over it a beautiful cross (wrought metal imbedded in wood with a glowing fire in the center to represent the soul, body, and spirit, respectively). I would have preferred he had never marked his skin at all. However, wherever he goes now, his God-given temple makes a statement without saying a word: "I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and the Power of the Cross".

Who am I to judge him, when I myself sometimes feel too embarrassed to make the temporary sign of the cross in a crowded resteraunt?

God will judge whether we have defiled our temple or not, and what will weigh more heavily than any of this is what we have 'tattooed" on our heart, not on our skin.

This is what I think, not what I know.

in humility and love,
Antonios

[Byron Jack Gaist]

I agree with Antonios that we are not to judge, and that what is tatooed on our hearts is of greater importance than what is tatooed on our skin. I'm sure that many people have tatooed themselves through lack of caution, out of a psychological need to express their individuality through a symbol, or even out of (misplaced perhaps) piety in the case of a tatoo with a religious theme.

However, a tatoo is a marking which is meant to be seen by - or hidden from - others. Surely vanity is a big risk here, and some soul-searching is therefore in order before someone decides whether or not to tatoo. Why do I want to bear this marking on my skin? What will I get from knowing it is on me? What will I get from knowing others can / can't see it?

When I was in college, I had my left earlobe pierced and wore an earring. The hole has since closed up again, but I can still feel the point where the small wound was. I know that the earring was both an expression of my individuality at the time, and a (misplaced) way of making myself more interesting and attractive to the opposite sex. Now this is just a brief chapter in my life history, but in all I would say it was an unnecessary one, an erroneous choice rather than a serious sin. My personal bias is also against tatoos, body-piercings etc. But as with everything else I'll let God be the judge.

In Christ
Byron

[Jerry Michel]

And on Byron's post comes the final truth - "But as with everything else I'll let God be the judge."

[Kosmas Damianides]

I also agree that we should never judge anyone. In fact i have a true story to tell.

Once there was a young man who was just about to have holy communion and he had a few earings on his ear. He stood in line,} looked at the priest and said "Are you going to commune me?" and he pointed to his ear which had the earings. The priest spontaneously responded "Why not? It's going in your mouth not your ears." This goes to show how important it is to be accepting of our youth.

It is a question of personal conscience. On the one hand we should not be like the pharisees which were hypocrites.


"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.-- Matthew 23:27-28

Yet on the other hand:


"Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes. Instead, it should be that of your inner self, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great worth in God's sight... " -- 1Peter 3:3-4

Yours in Christ

Kosmas

[Kosmas Damianides]

actually both quotes are saying the same thing in different words I think?

[nurse-aid]

yea you are absolutely right....and also those two maybe combine with this:

harvest are plantiful....but laborers are few...pray to the Lord to send laboreres to HIS garden!!!

one of my favorites....

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Byron wrote:


When I was in college, I had my left earlobe pierced and wore an earring. The hole has since closed up again, but I can still feel the point where the small wound was. I know that the earring was both an expression of my individuality at the time, and a (misplaced) way of making myself more interesting and attractive to the opposite sex. Now this is just a brief chapter in my life history, but in all I would say it was an unnecessary one, an erroneous choice rather than a serious sin. My personal bias is also against tatoos, body-piercings etc. But as with everything else I'll let God be the judge.

I had a very similar expereince myself. Before I became Orthodox I was "a pretty heavy dude" and wore an ear-ring for many of the same reasons Byron refers to.

When I entered my first parish I was too self-conscious to wear the ear-ring. But strangely enough I purposely wore it (!) when I began visiting the monastery I was eventually to join. Why? Years later I thought it was so funny that I would actually show up to a monastery with an ear-ring (what did my future spiritual father think he was getting himself into when he saw this? he was silent at the time) but now I think it was some sort of naive attempt to state my 'individuality'- something my spiritual father came to know all too well in the years to come without the ear-ring.

But I certainly didn't need the earring to make a 'statement' which is often what ear-rings & tatoos mean these days. In Christ there is no need to make of ourselves a 'statement' since He remakes us as the person He created us to be in the first place. Maybe that's why these things are not needed in time. More than something defiling they're just off-track.

By the way just like Byron says for many years my ear would weep with pus from where it had been pierced- a kind of reminder of a past life crying for itself.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Gilbert Gamboa]

Yeah its a crazy past..you know i was a musician in a hard/punk rock band for many years and covered in tattoos and facial piercings..today I wear long sleeves always even in the heat and no longer wear the piercings for over 2 years now..I have picked up my cross and when I change or shower Im reminded of the selfish and dark life i lived,By gods Grace i was allowed to repent and today I believe tattoos are wrong if you are familiar with The Law of GOD, and im still a sinner sweating my but off in the summer time-an ascetic in my own little way

[Robert Hegwood]

I've met a lady from Eritriea who has a small cross tatooed on her forehead, as is their custom. I've also heard that Copts will tattoo a cross on the back of a hand.

It is way of identifying themselves as Christians and futher a layer of social protection for their women, some of whom from time to time are forced to marry Muslim men who then attempt to forcibly convert them to Islam.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Robert,

First of all, welcome to the community. I hope you enjoy your time and participation here.

I was interested in your recent post, specifically as to the Eritrean custom you mentioned of tatooing a small cross on the forehead. Do you know anything more of this custom? I'd be curious to know how widespread it is, how long back it dates, if it has various symbolisms, etc.

Many thanks in advance for anything further you (or others) might be able to share on this.

INXC, Matthew

[Robert Hegwood]

I don't really have any more information than what I shared. My guess is that the practice probably arose in response to the threat posed by Islam.

[Elizabeth Riggs]

As to pierced ears, many women pierce their ears, as I did, in order to wear contemporary earrings. Currently, this is pretty fully accepted as a part of most modern cultures - not as a pagan rite, but simply as a minor surgical procedure to enable one to wear pretty earrings. Should one? This is something between the woman and her priest. For a child? Again, this is between the parents and their priest. I had my ears pierced (BO - before Orthodoxy!) because I was given a beautiful pair of gold earrings that were for pierced ears and that couldn't be altered without destroying them. I still have them, and I enjoy wearing them. I pierced my daughter's ears when she was an infant so she wouldn't have the pain when she was able to remember it. I wasn't Orthodox then. Would I now, being Orthodox? Probably, if my priest blessed it.

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with wearing jewelry. It is when we place too much emphasis on or take pride in the expense or adorn ourselves for lustful reasons that there is a problem. If someone is sick enough they want pain inflicted on them, or are making an idol of piercings and tattoos, there is a problem there, too.

There are many cultural reasons people will tattoo themselves that would be acceptable to the Church. The Coptic practice of tattooing a small Orthodox Cross on their hand or wrist is an example. Not only does it protect them from a forced marriage, but, according to an Egyptian man who attended our Church many years ago, if a pogrom occurs and he is killed and his body chopped up (happens!) at least if his hand is found that part of him will be given a Christian funeral and burial.

Blessings
Elizabeth

[Patrick Walsh]

Hello

I just wanted to share a few thoughts on this topic.

"God created man, both male and female, in the Image of God."

We should focus ourselves on the image of God that God created within us. We should become an Icon unto Christ, not an Icon of Christ. We should emulate the Saints, for they emulate Christ. This is the best Icon we can make of our bodies.

Just my humble opinion.
Patrick

[Theopesta]

dear all
here in egypt all copts have made tatooing a small cross on the right forehead while we are childern
all chidren in primary school made this cross to say we are christian and we carry the cross where we go with all innocent dare, all children her made that with all happyness and somtimes want to make more and more.
each family say that to her children to encourage them
also, the church emphysises always this shoul make
hygienically to prevent any virus infections

when we asked about our religion we not say christian instead we rise our right hand and the cross speaks against any threat

this is very old custom in all middle east christian specially orthodox

[Theopesta]

many apologises our tattoo cross not on the forehead but in the wrist back of a right hand

[Antonios]

Here's a link (http://i-cias.com/e.o/copts.htm) I found with a picture of the cross tattoed on the wrist. God bless these courageous souls who live in such a hostile environment. Every Christian should pray daily for our Coptic brothers and sisters, as well as all other Christians who live under persecution.

in humility and love,
Antonios

[Vasilis Kirikos]

I truly resent the implications of the given encyclopedia as a reference. It is obviously a Muslim avenue of pure propaganda for Islam. And even worse it does harm to the memory of the many thousands of Coptic Christian +martyrs+ who were murdered in the name of the false god of Islam. They murdered the Coptic Christian people, now they want to kill their memory! Most historians agree that the Copt/Egyptian people are distinct people, different from the present occupiers of Egypt, which said occupiers are a mix of Arab/Turkic people. The ancient Coptic/Egyptian people are not Arabic.

One must ask a basic question: How is it that for thousands of years before, all the years during and after the Greek rule of Egypt they people of Egypt continued to speak Coptic? Also, later on how is it that the Coptic/Egyptian people continued to speak Egyptian/Coptic before, during and long after the era of the Roman rule of Egypt?? And how is it that in a relatively few years after the invasion of Egypt by the Muslim Arabs/Turks the Coptic/Egyptian people suddenly gave up speaking their ancient Coptic language and just as suddenly began to speak Arabic; a distinct and foreign tongue?

Could it be because the Muslim Arab/Turks murdered all but about 10% of the Coptic/Egyptian people?

Yes. I think so!
I do not hate Muslims. But I do hate the philosophy of Islam. Islam, like Nazism or Communism teach that the means are justified by the ends...All three strive for world domination; and committing murder and forcing people into slavery are not a problem . All three of these philosophies will do anything for world domination and all three teach total intolerance for the rights of others.

[Andrew]

I have an icon of the Trinity on my shoulder. When I told my priest, he said to make sure no one sees it during liturgy as not to offend anyone.

Tattooing is a neutral art form - it all depends on the intent and message of the tattoo.

[Panagiotis]

I have an icon of the Trinity on my shoulder. When I told my priest, he said to make sure no one sees it during liturgy as not to offend anyone.

Tattooing is a neutral art form - it all depends on the intent and message of the tattoo.

I thought Trinity icons(God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit) were verboten, as in Christ is the only Icon oif the Holy Trinity that can be iconized(?) because He was also Flesh and therefore depictable? I have read this from Fr. Coniaris and Bp. Ware so I think its pretty legitimate to state.

This is not to criticize your tattoo or to cause a ruckus, but to ask if anyone else has read this.

Blessings,
Panagiotis

[Andrew]

I thought Trinity icons(God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit) were verboten, as in Christ is the only Icon oif the Holy Trinity that can be iconized(?) because He was also Flesh and therefore depictable? I have read this from Fr. Coniaris and Bp. Ware so I think its pretty legitimate to state.

This is not to criticize your tattoo or to cause a ruckus, but to ask if anyone else has read this.

Blessings,
Panagiotis

I should be more clear on what I mean by a "Trinity icon." My tattoo is similar to the Rublev's Three Angels icon, or the Hospitality of Abraham icon.

[Evangelos]

hey all im new to this and at brings me great pleasure to see such great unity in a world of today god bless.
i have tattoos three to be exact i wonder if anyone knows the position of our orthodox church on them im feeling guilty for getting them even though i find real meaning to them as they symbolise moments in my life (ie my kids names,twin love,and love of birds) God Bless.

[Father David Moser]

i have tattoos three to be exact i wonder if anyone knows the position of our orthodox church on them

I moved this post into an existing thread on tattoos. I would suggest, as a beginning, Evangelos, that you go back and read the previous discussion as it might help you get a sense of what has already been posted on the topic.

Fr David Moser

[Shaun Little]

My father and his father and grandfather had tattoos of their regimental insignia and emblems. The reason for this was that they were all British soldiers during the time of empire ,when, our islands were continually at war with someone. The Scottish soldiery who descend from the ancient Picts (painted men) developed a culture of tattoos in order that their bodies might be found and pieced together on the battle field. They desired this in order to be sure of rising on the Last Day(Silly Superstition).

While serving as a commando in WW11, my father had to keep his sleeves rolled down lest the Germans realize he wasn't a Greek fisherman, but, a British soldier.These tattoos could have gotten him murdered.

During the 1970's, when i was a lad, my father sorely regretted the marking of his flesh. Since he was powerfully built, the use of short sleeved shirts during the summer made him appear as a thug. Dad thought it sinful to mark the flesh and promised to give me corporal punishment if i were ever to tattoo myself.

I would agree that God would hate this tattooing of the flesh. If we were meant to be marked , we would be born that way.

Shaun.

[Paul Cowan]

I would agree that God would hate this tattooing of the flesh.

He does. Leviticus 19:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=19&verse=28&version=9&context=verse)

However, I am still trying to figure out the previous verse. Here are they both together. Leviticus 19:27-28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=19&verse=27&end_verse=29&version=9&context=context)


27Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.

28Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.


How would I round the corner of my head? I assume to mar the corners of my beard means to cut them weird? I suppose this goes back to the other thread (Description of the earth in the eternal kingdom) about knowing the Times scripture was written in and what the traditions they were following or as is the case here being told to follow.

Paul

[Shaun Little]

He does. Leviticus 19:28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=19&verse=28&version=9&context=verse)

However, I am still trying to figure out the previous verse. Here are they both together. Leviticus 19:27-28 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=3&chapter=19&verse=27&end_verse=29&version=9&context=context)



How would I round the corner of my head? I assume to mar the corners of my beard means to cut them weird? I suppose this goes back to the other thread (Description of the earth in the eternal kingdom) about knowing the Times scripture was written in and what the traditions they were following or as is the case here being told to follow.

Paul
The pagan nations would shave the sides of their beards and their heads in order to venerate pagan false gods. Yahweh was teaching the chosen people to keep fully separate from such evil-doers. The spirit of the Torah remains binding on God's followers today."Not one iota shall pass away". The purpose of the law was be as a school master and instruct in the need for Jesus' salvation.

[Paul Cowan]

The pagan nations would shave the sides of their beards and their heads in order to venerate pagan false gods. Yahweh was teaching the chosen people to keep fully separate from such evil-doers. The spirit of the Torah remains binding on God's followers today."Not one iota shall pass away". The purpose of the law was be as a school master and instruct in the need for Jesus' salvation.

Interesting about the beards. I have never heard this. Where did you get your source? What is the spirit of the Torah?

Christ did away with the Law to be replaced with Grace. Let's read the rest of that verse (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&verse=18&version=9&context=verse)though.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Christ DID fulfill the Law.

Can you explain this more fully?
instruct in the need for Jesus' salvation

Jesus needed salvation? Or the people needed salvation through Jesus? Or Jesus was their salvation? Or somethign else?

Paul

[Yanna]

Some have said that these markings are to express ourselves and our faith or to decorate ourselves.

Firstly, how do we as Orthodox people identify the "true self"? Is it temporal, eternal or both?

Secondly, if we observe that the Scriptures say that we are "not our own", Whose are we?

Thirdly, if we take it upon ourselves to "decorate" or "improve upon" what belongs to God, Whose property are we defacing?
(This question is not addressed to those whose traditional expression of Christianity includes markings.)

I am reminded of the sons of Aaron who brought strange incense into the Temple with sad consequences. It is better to offer what God requires than to think of something on our own.

These are only some questions and thoughts of mine.

With love in Christ,
Yanna

[Philip H.]

I don't have any particularly amazing comments on this topic, but I don't feel that it ought to be a big deal. Some Orthodox (like the Copts and Ethiopians/Eritreans) are big into it and some aren't. We have no business becoming Pharisees and condemning our brothers and sisters depending on how they proclaim their faith or adorn their bodies.

And in response to the early comments about the Eritreans, yes, they do tattoo themselves - this is a very popular custom amongst the Tigrayans/Eritreans and Amhara (and perhaps among the Agew, Oromo, and Guragay as well?). Sometimes it will just be a single cross on the forehead, chin, or neck, but oftentimes it will be a string of crosses along the jaw line, arranged like necklaces around the neck, in a line across the forehead, and so on.

I don't think I've seen Ethiopian Orthodox men tattoed in any way, but it could be that theirs are less ornate/intricate and therefore not as noticable to the passerby - I'm not entirely sure :-/. But regardless, it is a very widespread and popular custom here and I have never heard anyone (whether clergyman or layperson) speak against it and here our Orthodox Church is VERY into the Old Testament - for example, the consecration of the churches is sealed not by the placing of an antimension, but of a replica of the Ark (tabot) or Twelve Commandments.

Hope this helps whoever had asked about tattoes here in the Horn!

[Paul Cowan]

I don't think I've seen Ethiopian Orthodox men tattoed in any way, but it could be that theirs are less ornate/intricate and therefore not as noticable to the passerby - I'm not entirely sure :-/. But regardless, it is a very widespread and popular custom here and I have never heard anyone (whether clergyman or layperson) speak against it and here our Orthodox Church is VERY into the Old Testament - for example, the consecration of the churches is sealed not by the placing of an antimension, but of a replica of the Ark (tabot) or Twelve Commandments.


This is probably an interesting new thread, but I would be curious which Orthodox church consecrates a new temple this way.

Paul

[Herman Blaydoe]

This is probably an interesting new thread, but I would be curious which Orthodox church consecrates a new temple this way.

Paul

That would be the Ethiopian Church, a common practice for them since they are the present-day custodians of the original Ark of the Covenant, and not some obscure warehouse of the US Government as George Lucas would have us believe.

Herman

[Father David Moser]

Some Orthodox (like the Copts and Ethiopians/Eritreans) are big into it and some aren't.

Aside from the issue of whether or not these groups are actually Orthodox, I think that we have to look at the reasons for the prevalence of such tattooing among these people. It isn't about decoration or anything like that. The tattoo is a culturally visible and undeniable mark that one has been baptized. It is not unlike the circumcision of the Jews. It prevents the bearer of that indelible mark from denying his baptism and his faith. This is the mark of a Christian living in a society where he is a persecuted minority and he is thus "marked for life" externally as well as internally that he belongs to Christ. Thus the tattooing that we see among the Copts and others cannot really be compared with the decorative tattoos that appear in the west.

Fr David Moser

[Daniel Harrison]

I have the flag of Esphigmenou Tattoed on my Chest with the double headed eagle and the greek inscription Orthodoxy Or Death. and I also have a Russian Three Bared Cross on my back in between my shoulder blades.

I also have Marine Corps tattoo on my elbow which I am going to get removed for employment purposes.
The Orthodox tattoos are staying. I have had a Orthodox Bishop bless my Chest tattoo when my parish priest tried to get me in trouble by showing it too him.