Home schooling Orthodox children

[Vasilis Kirikos]

Children's Science Exam Answers. These are real answers given by children.

Q: Name the four seasons. A: Salt, pepper, mustard and vinegar.

Q: Explain one of the processes by which water can be made safe to drink. A: Flirtation makes water safe to drink because it removes large pollutants like grit, sand, dead sheep and canoeists.

Q: How is dew formed? A: The sun shines down on the leaves and makes them perspire.

Q: How can you delay milk turning sour A: Keep it in the cow.

Q: What causes the tides in the oceans? A: The tides are a fight between the Earth and the Moon. All water tends to flow towards the moon, because there is no water on the moon, and nature hates a vacuum. I forget where the sun joins in this fight.

Q: What are steroids? A: Things for keeping carpets still on the stairs.

Q: What happens to your body as you age? A: When you get old, so do your bowels and you get intercontinental.

Q: What happens to a boy when he reaches puberty? A: He says good-bye to his boyhood and looks forward to his adultery.

Q: Name a major disease associated with cigarettes. A: Premature death. (got to give it to them!)

Q: How are the main parts of the body categorized? (e.g., abdomen.) A: The body is consisted into three parts - the brainium, the borax and the abdominal cavity. The brainium contains the brain; the borax contains the heart and lungs, and the abdominal cavity contains the five bowels, A, E, I, O, and U.

Q: What is the fibula? A: A small lie.

Q: What does "varicose" mean? A: Nearby. (I do love this one...)

Q: Give the meaning of the term "Caesarean Section" A: The Caesarean Section is a district in Rome.

Q: What does the word "benign" mean?' A: Benign is what you will be after you be eight.(Love this one too)

[Theopesta]

our reverend father Vasilis Kirikos

I think this is an innocent pharmaceutical joke
many thanks I hope I can understand the meaning with my simple mind

[Moses Anthony]

Fr. V. and Theopesta,

Fr.: This is one of the reasons we homeschool our children. The public education system seems to be to busy with all the "political concerns" of the day to really educate our children.

Theopesta: I don't think that the post by Fr.V. is a joke. The answers sound as though they came from grade school students. However; to many of our children can tell you who the current music idol of the nation's youth is, who designs the "hottest" clothes, etc., but cannot for the life of them put together a coherent thought in a paragraph, name the Great Lakes, or even name some of our more recent Presidents.

[Vasilis Kirikos]

Dear Theopesta Dem and James A. Anthony,

Please forgive me if I somewhere gave the wrong impression. I am not a priest. I am a microbiologist with some experience teaching on most levels of school; from grade school to and including the college level. A colleague sent the student responses to me.

I disagree that public schooling has no value; albeit my experience has proven to me that some of the inner city schools are little more than warehouses for children. I would NEVER send a child of mine to a public school in the inner city of Washington, DC. However, the public schools elsewhere are very good. Better in fact than are the private schools in many cases. I have taught students from both.

Moreover, the responses in my last post were no doubt drawn out from a very large base having few such answers from some small children; I conjecture that none of them were high school age. You would be amazed what children are learning in school these days; some of the very, very bright children are coming from our public schools.

Lastly, I would like to mention that it is my understanding that some students who had at that time recently graduated from high school produced a movie. You may have heard of this particular movie. The title was "Blare Witch Project” made in 1999. It was named after the high school where the students had only two years earlier graduated; "Blair High School" located in Montgomery County, Maryland. Not very far from where I now live. If I am wrong about this I wish someone would correct me. But the movie was superbly made.

Vasilis

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Matthew: If these posts are a high-jack of the announcement thread for system updates , forgive me.

Vasilis: My wife and I made the decision to home-school our children after careful considerations. At the time (while we were Protestants), there were Christians from our church teaching in the public school system. It would be sheer folly of me to say that there are no good public schools or teachers. The law of averages of the education of your child getting (oh the crassness of the thought) your money's worth, or for that matter, your values from the public school system is very low.

The answer to each and every problem in public education seems to be , to throw more money at the ISD. Problem is, with all the funds currently given to them -on average- the public ISD here in the United States is doing such a job, that when one actually does beat the norm, it's "big news". And don't even mention "social interaction".

Aahhh, but alas; I am ranting about that which is not the purpose here. Forgive me.

[Vasilis Kirikos]

James.... What you said about schooling is not so simple! Private schooling cannot compete with public schools. Why? Because what you see going on in the class rooms is just a scratch on the surface. Most people have no idea what it takes to standardize each grade, what students are supposed to learn to prepare them for the next step and how that process is determined. Very few people have any idea what it takes to adopt a text book from the countless text book companies. Behind each class room teacher is an army of staff that reviews many, many text books before adopting the text book that is deemed most beneficial for the student. Even after their adoption the selected books are proof read. And the teachers! Have you any idea what it takes to prepare EACH teacher? NO! I do not mean they must have a degree in education and get a teachers' certification before they are hired for our public schools....BY THE WAY..PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE NOT SO SELECTIVE IN WHO IT IS THEY HIRE! Each teacher is TAUGHT what it is they are expected to teach their students in a particular class; I.e. the Standard of Learning (most teachers call these the SOL's). They are taught by the support staff in the school system. And that is no easy task! Where did you get the textbooks for the home schooling you are providing for your children? Did you merely walk into a Walden Book store and randomly make a selection? I seriously doubt it! I would bank that you found some resource that gave you the information on the textbooks your state demands for the public schools in the particular grade for your child. And those selected books just didn't happen! A lot of work went behind the selection of those books. And the private school simply does not have the time, staff or resources to compete on any proficient level with the public system to even find these books. I have taught students attending private schools and the textbooks they used were too often simply atrocious. Run on sentences; inappropriate punctuation...just plane sloppy! It is my opinion that it is not the public schools that are at fault as to why students fail in public schools; rather it is the family structure or lack of family support; or no family. And that problem is growing worse. It isn't the schools or the government. Poor performance from a student is usually a symptom of something not so good in their home. Not what the school is failing to do. And I agree. Throwing dollars into the school system is not going to fix that. One has to train a race horse to win races; but if that horse isn't fed and properly domiciled, no amount of training will suffice. Vasilis (Bill Herald)

[Olga]

"just plane sloppy!", Vasilis? Brilliant!http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/lol.gif

[Olga]

I forgot to add, that I also LOVED the kids' bloopers. I also have on file "Real Bloopers from Church Newsletters" if anyone's interested. (Maybe we could have a new category dedicated to humour...)

[Antonia Colias]

Mr. Kirikos does not know about the contemporary state of homeschooling. I laughed at the silly (and insulting) thought of buying textbooks at a WaldenBooks! As a homeschooling teacher of K-12 levels, I invest vast amounts of time in (1) researching and evaluating curricular materials, (2) reflecting in order to make informed decisions, (3) evaluating and selecting support materials from the Internet, software, and additional print sources, (4) studying scopes/sequences from various sources, (5) staying abreast of state recommended standards, (6) locating science laboratory courses taught at area colleges, (7) planning lesson plans appropriate for the individual student, (8) teaching, and (9) evaluating student work. Our homeschool does not "match" the public schools. We do not want it to. Nor does it "match" the private schools. (I won't get into the equally silly opinions that were posted about private schools.)

My point is that there are good-quality public schools, good-quality homeschools, and good-quality private schools. There also are abysmally-poor public schools, disreputable private schools, and irresponsible homeschools. Don't issue one-size-fits-all slanders about topics on which you know nearly nothing.

Respectfully,

Orthodox6

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Visilis, I replied to your post earlier by clicking on the Reply Button, and ; here I've Jumped to this page.

One thing I forgot to mention in either of my previous posts about the state of Public Education is this: My wife was once a teacher in the Public School System of this state. We would rather send our progeny off to a private school, than have them attend a public secondary school. Colleges have another concern, and that is that teachers seem to think they've "carte blanc", when it comes to challenging, and or destroying the faith of Christian students.

This is why both my wife and I were saddened to hear of the folding of that Orthodox college in South Carolina, which had a classical approach to education. We had every intention of sending our children there!

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Visilis,

I just talked with my wife; the name of the Orthodox college in South Carolina which folded, was Rose Hill.

And just in case some may be wondering about the intelligence of our children who were home-schooled: Our Army Sgt. son when taking the MEPS test, scored high enough that he was told, "...You can have any job you want." Our college Soph. "geek" scored just one point more than his older sister on the ACT (32). Their younger sister graduated from High School on the honor roll. Her brother gets bored easily without being challenged, he's very creative. And so goes the intellect of our brood.

The color blue seems to work the best for font colors, as to readability

[Vasilis Kirikos]

> "Don't issue one-size-fits-all slanders about topics on which you know nearly nothing. " I beg your pardon. My intention was not to insult/slander anyone. Moreover, I am certain that I have NOT slandered or insulted anyone. But if anyone has taken offense to my words I do apologize. The reference to Walden Books was merely a reminder that no one does that. But rather, just as you described, a lot of research is necessary to find the proper materials to home teach/school a child; however, even that is nothing compared to the work accomplished by the public school systems in this nation. Home schooling requires a lot of work by the parent/teacher. BUT THE RESOURCES COME MAINLY FROM THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEMS WHERE THE RESEARCH HAS ALREADY BEEN ACCOMPLISHED FOR YOU. YOU DON'T HAVE SEARCH THROUGH THE TEXT BOOK JUNGLE OR EVEN CHEW. The army of staff in the central offices of the public school systems have already accomplished that mammoth task for you. ALL THAT IS LEFT FOR YOU IS TO MERELY SWALLOW. "on which you know nearly nothing"? I have taught many years. I think that I do know a good bit about this topic. Aren't speaking about yourself? I suggest a course in psychology 101, also offered in most public schools. The chapters on projection and reaction formation should prove interesting. Moreover, my fiancée is THE social studies coordinator for one of the public schools systems in Virginia. She has charge over 56 schools. Her duties include textbook adoption, teaching the teachers, monitoring the teachers and the accomplishments/progress of the students her teachers have taught. Vasilis

[Antonia Colias]

Interesting lecture from somebody who knows nothing about my fully-qualified educational and work backgrounds, and who demonstrates no knowledge about homeschooling other than the usual ho-hum NEA-style stereotypes and hostilities. My phrase "about which you know nearly nothing" applied to homeschooling, which careful reading on your part would have made clear. How the public school staff spend their time impacts me not at all. I don't deny that they work hard. I know my way through the "textbook jungle." Resources also come from more sources than the public schools' efforts.

Something about this topic sure seems to give you mosquito bites.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Interesting lecture from somebody who knows nothing about my fully-qualified educational and work backgrounds, and who demonstrates no knowledge about homeschooling other than the usual ho-hum NEA-style stereotypes and hostilities. My phrase "about which you know nearly nothing" applied to homeschooling, which careful reading on your part would have made clear. How the public school staff spend their time impacts me not at all. I don't deny that they work hard. I know my way through the "textbook jungle." Resources also come from more sources than the public schools' efforts.

Something about this topic sure seems to give you mosquito bites.

Orthodox Christians should not speak to each other in such a way.

Obviously the concern of Orthodox parents for their children is that they receive a decent and godly education. In this sense the discussion about public or homeschooling is very important. But ultimately this is based not only on curriculum but mainly on the virtuous efforts of all involved- parents, children & educators. Without this no good will result except on some outward level perhaps.

In other words let us show our true colours in the manner in which we show love & respect to each other.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

From the book Elder Barsanuphius of Optina we read:

Once a layman came to me [ie to the Elder Barsanuphius] and addressed me with the following question: 'How does one walk in the way of God? How does he learn this? Tell me this in a few words.' I even hesitated a bit-what should I tell him? Then I said, 'Have you been reading the Psalter?'

'I have.'

'Well then, it's said there, the Lord will teach the meek His ways (Ps.24:9). That means that first of all you must know that the Lord Himself teaches the Lord's ways. However, He doesn't teach everyone, but only those who are meek, who humble themselves. So humble yourself, be meek, and the Lord will not abandon you; He Himself will teach you how to walk in the way of the Lord, and in what this consists."

[Orthodox6]

Bless, Father!

You are quite correct in what you write. Thank you for the reminder. I am puzzled only by why you singled out my post, and ignored the equally impolite posts from Mr. Kirikos.

Orthodox6

[Vasilis Kirikos]

Dear Orthodox6,

I am still not aware of my having insulted anyone. There is a record of all that I have written in this thread. For my edification I'd like it if you’d point out to me where I have been insulting in this discussion. As I recall this all began when I merely posted some humorous answers a few students MAY have written on some tests in the sciences. It was immediately assumed by some in this forum that the answers came from students attending the public schools; and this bit of humor was held as proof positive of the poor quality of teaching in the public sector. I was quick to reply that 1) the public school systems should be given credit and that more often than not a poor student isn’t a product of a failing pubic school system, but rather the product of poor parenting/home life. That was the sum total of my meaning in any of my messages. Moreover, there is no proof that the test or answers actually occurred or the test questions were genuine. Easily they may have been contrived by someone having a sense of humor. Joke books are replete with such nonsense.

Again, I do apologize if I have offended anyone.

Thank you,
Vasilis

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Visilis,

Resources: As a parent , and being one-half of a the family home-schooling team; I can tell you without quivocation: You do not know the depth of resources available to homeschoolers which have no connection to the public school system. I know because I've watched my wife "do the research" to put together our curricula. Quite a number of those "private schools" you spoke of , have too done the research themselves, and offer to the homeschooler -at a price- the fruits of their labors.

Swallowing: A huge, and I do mean huge problem here is that quite often not all the relevant facts -as someone such as myself would see them- are always presented, which makes the education gained decidedly tilted to the publishers, teacher, school boards viewpoint. Just check out the daily local or network news, to see how leaving out salient points tilts the story.

I can sit here and post about my wife, and you can about your fiance, until the "cows come home", but it won't change a widely known fact: In far, far to many instances, the public school system has failed. While some physical buildings do need renovating, constantly "throwing money" into the ever widening hole of a failed system, acheives nothing but the LOSS OF MORE MONEY.

Swallowing II: There's a point which I think you've missed entirely, due to your closeness to the public school system: One of the main reasons for parents homeschooling their children, is because they have swallowed what the Public ISD has put out for many years. Some of this has been at the behest of those affiliated in some way with the NEA, pushing through the courts their version of what education should be, down the throats, and into the pocketbooks of the nation's parents (a line from an old movie fits here; "I'm mad.....!)

We all know how for years upon years, housewives were made to feel as though their contribution to the nation was not worth anything. The same type of vitriole is now aimed at homeschoolers; they haven't done the research, they lack the qualifications, incomplete cirricula, maladjusted children, ...........ad naseum.

Public Law, in far to many instances has been used in the attempt to stifle any advance by parents who wish to homeschool their children. This is why there is a Homeschool Legal Defense Fund, headed I do believe by a man named Michael Farris (Use whatever search engine you wish, or even a telephone, there's m,ore thatn enough information for you to fill in the missing links in your knowledfge of homeschool education). In the same manner as the "big networks" are not the sole purveyors of accurate, relevant news; neither is the Public ISD the sole source of reasearch, and or real education.

a sinful and unworthy servant

[Vasilis Kirikos]

Sorry, I just don't have any energy I'm willing to give this. Bye

[Vasilis Kirikos]

> I have no desire to enter the education thread. These past three weeks I have attended three funerals. This afternoon (Tuesday) was the third. Tomorrow there's a fourth funeral. Three of them for friends and one for a cousin whom I love very much. My cousin's funeral was the 2nd that I attended. I don't have the will or energy to attend this "last" (who am I kidding) one. To attend or not to attend this last funeral? I'm not looking for any sympathy but I find myself having less and less energy. I think it is depression. . I just don't see the relevance in anything. This whole stupid existence makes little sense to me. There is too little joy and too much sadness. Vasilis

"I have moved all the posts on issues surrounding public / home schooling, which have been previously a tangent in the 'Monachos Upgrade' thread, to their own thread here in the Ascesis & Praxis area. Please could all future posts on this subject be posted here, rather than in that the testing thread.

This might also be a good occasion to remind ourselves about how to speak nicely with one another on-line. "

[Byron Jack Gaist]

I think it is depression. . I just don't see the relevance in anything. This whole stupid existence makes little sense to me. There is too little joy and too much sadness. Vasilis

Dear Vasilis,

I haven't been following this discussion, and don't really have an opinion on public or home schooling. But if you've lost so many people close to you in such a short period of time, it's not surprising you feel depressed. I hope you have friends or a priest or counsellor at this time for support. May God help you through this rough time.

In Christ
Byron

[Theopesta]

our venerable kind father Vasilis Kirikos,
I hope you are in all right in every thing physically and spritually,

our father I love to read always your words
JOshoua 1:9
http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_right.gif "Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be you dismayed: for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go."
in CHRIST

[Leandros Papadopoulos]

Dear Vasili,

My cousin's wife died suddenly (heart episode) last week at a very young age. I feel the same feelings with you.

There are times that hope and faith are meaningless, only love stands. I have loved my cousin's wife and I will continue to do so even after her death, even in her tragic absence.

ONLY LOVE has a meaning, every thing else is temporary. While I cry, while I mourn, while I do not understand, the love for my beloved is in my heart making me wonder whether all that exist is just love - even reality gets meaningless when it continues to exist without those that I love.

It is not depression in my heart, this is not a psychological phase, it is an absolute dive in hell. But even in hell, the love for my beloved stays in my heart. And I say to myself: keep the mind in death and have no despair. In death are all that I Love but my love for them will never die.

May the memory (our love) for those who are asleep be eternal, regardless of the pain and sorrow that is generated from our loving relation with them.

I pray to God that we may never be without this existential experience of blessed "depression" caused by our love for other persons. Only this is for real, everything else is an illusion.

May God bless us, all.

[dimitri marinis]

Dear Vasilis,

I read your posts and appreciate your open character regarding your believes, you are going through a bad period of which I’m sure this will change soon, every one of us at some time during our life time we have our downs and some of us reach the bottom if so there is only one way to go and that’s up, you will come up that’s for sure we will be praying for you that our Lord will be with you at all times. Remember when some thing bad appears on our path it turns to be good. Any thing that happens to us good or bad at the end of the day is good.

Keep on Loving
In Christ
dimitri

[Vasilis Kirikos]

> Dear Theopesta and all, Thanks to all of you for your kind words and wishes. I want you all to know that I am not a priest. In Christ, Vasilis

[Theopesta]

I know your rev. are not but you are mycrobiologist I am saying father because your age as I understand from the profile.

the elder is revenrable wherever and whatever He
pray for me

[Olga]

This might help, Vasili. Theopesta uses her forms of address to you and others in the same way Greeks use the word Kyrios to address a man older than themselves. In fact, I love reading her posts, her use of English, while not perfect, actually shows her sincerity, child-like earnestness and humility more eloquently than if her English was more accomplished. May we all learn from her example.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

What a charming linguistic particularity! What's your native language, Theopesta?

In Christ
Byron

[Vasilis Kirikos]

Thank you, Olga. I appreciate your calling my attention to this; considering my being distracted. I heard it once said that depression is a sin; this was said by a protestant minister. I don't know if that is correct or not. I have also heard it said by the noted psychologist, Karl Menninger that depression is our way of escaping despair, since no one can stay in despair more than 24 hours without committing suicide. So actually depression is a step up. Karl Menninger also said that anger is a way we escape from depression, despair and fear. Menninger said that all anger is really masked fear. I think that all of us (at least most of us) fear death. Vasilis

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Vasilis,

Technically, depression is a psychological disorder, not a sin. Of course it is also used in everyday language as a substitute for more appropriate terms, like despair, which as far as I'm aware is a sin. The pastors on this forum may be able to shed more light on this, but I would imagine when we call despair a sin, it is not an accusation of guilt on a person who already feels quite guilty enough, but a prompting to trust in God's love.

I must read some Menninger one day, he seems to have had a lot of interesting ideas - as a psychiatrist, I think he was one of the pioneers in discussing the relationship between theology and psychology.

In my experience depression and anger are related; in fact it is commonly believed among psychologists that depression is internalised anger, and that - in cases where the depression is not entirely debilitating, which can be very extreme and would probably require a period of hospital treatment - the appropriate expression of anger, or finding the suitable channel for one's aggressive impulses (by which I don't mean flying into a rage, but, f.e. participating in a competitive activity or sport) may help in lifting the depression. In my own opinion, however, nothing helps so much as earnest soul-searching in the presence of somebody we trust. Leandros is correct in pointing out that mourning the people we love is not really "depression", and that indeed our pain is a sign of the depth of our love for them. We may, however, find some solace, perhaps even new meaning, in sharing our pain with somebody who cares, especially when, as in your own case, the circumstances of the loss have been abrupt, or we've suffered multiple losses in a brief time.

Regarding the fear of death, it is so universal that an entire school of psychology is based on it (existential psychology). Other people's mortality puts us in touch with our own, and that is scary. Many would put a full-stop there, but as Christians we have God's promises and the benefits of sincere prayer.

In Christ
Byron

[Theopesta]

our venerable father Vasilis Kirikos, I hope you are in a very good health and mood today.

MS, Olga thanks for your pure eye.

Brother Byron Jack Gaist my native language is Arabic, I learn english in school and in the faculty all lessons in Engish but all of them are pharmaceutical expressions

I hope you all forgive my weak english as I should learn If I want by myself and with experience

[Vasilis Kirikos]

There was an interesting anecdote I heard about Dr. Menninger. It seems that there was once a famous actress who was a patient at the Menninger Institute in Topeka, Kansas. It happened that she was severely depressed and had been in great despair and suicidal. The prescribed treatment was to have her scrub the floor with a toothbrush! It happened that as she labored at her task Dr. Menninger was passing very near by. The lady, on her knees at work with her toothbrush, looked up and in a very angry tone asked the doctor, "how long must I continue doing this"; whereupon, Dr. Menninger , looking down at her work replied , "you've missed a spot!" and he continued walking without further comment! Beside herself with anger she continued to scrub! The idea was to keep her in anger and out of depression or despair and displace the anger with labor. I too have found that exercise reduces deperssion. Eric Burns says the same about despair; that one cannot remain in despair for 24 hours without committing suicide; and that depression is a way out of despair. My understanding is that the escape from despair is depression; and the escape from depression is anger; and the relaity of anger is masked fear. I can feel it in my own being and even experience the full cycle. Very interesting. Vasilis