Political correctness

[Andonis]

hello there once again,

i would like to raise some seriously disturbing experiences that i have been having of late, especially in regards to the topic of sexuality. yesterday i attended a mental health conference, whereby some very educated individuals blantantly stipulated that they are fighting for government approval of sexual diversity, ie homosexuality, transgenderism etc, to be formally accepted in all forms of social policy. they used anecdotal stories and statistics to prove how marginalised and ill treated this group of people are. using the same anecdotal evidence they proposed that homosexuality was indeed a God intended outcome, as God created all therefore he intended it to be this way. it amazed me that not one person in the audience showed any disaproval of the propositions made, only encouragement was given. the ideas generated and expressed where completely at odds with the Orthodox faith. i knew very well that any opinion characterising this marginalised group of people as having a disease of the soul, would have had me kicked out of the lecture theatre quick smart.

it amazes me that these people profess themselves to be the liberated minds seeking to set people free of bigotry, yet they're the first to characterise you as being homophobic and extremist when you express an opinion contrary to theirs.

i guess its all just another sign of the times...

[Owen Jones]

So you have a good introduction to the world of PC. It keeps changing its colors -- with new issues and agendas each decade -- but it's the same old totalitarianism. It's creeping into the Church as well.

[John Curtis Dunn]

they proposed that homosexuality was indeed a God intended outcome, as God created all therefore he intended it to be this way.

Modern fallen man desires to return culture to polytheism. Every Orthodox Chrisian must be vigilant to guard his heart and mind from accepting this neo-polytheism.

You say you were amazed to see and hear not one person in the audience express his or her disaproval. Why? You yourself explained i knew very well that any opinion characterising this marginalised group of people as having a disease of the soul, would have had me kicked out of the lecture theatre quick smart.. Perhaps there were others who were equally repulsed by this blatant religious polytheistic revival meeting. There simply may have been no leaders for Christ present.

Were you the only Orthodox Christian person present?

Sometimes we are stifled from challanging the blasphemy of others because we think we must win the argument. We must be competent and persuasive enough to rebutt or reply to each and every vile and vindictive remark which will be hurled towards us for speaking boldly against this wickedness [wickedness is worse than evil].

St. Anthony the Great prophesied that the Orthodox Christians of the last days would be laughed at, mocked and accused of insanity.

Please understand, I was not chastising you with my questions or comments, each can only do what they can do. Perhaps God will give you your occassion to martyr your reputation for Christ. Until then faint not and pray always.

John

[John Curtis Dunn]

St. Anthony the Great prophesied that the Orthodox Christians of the last days would be laughed at, mocked and accused of insanity.

One of my favorite quotes:

"Is it not excessively ridiculous to seek the good opinon of those whom you would never wish to be like?" [St. john Chrysostom, Homily 3 on St. John]

John

[Owen Jones]

Dear John,

If all modern man wanted to do was return to polytheism it wouldn't bother me that much. Polytheism is far preferable to what modern man wants.

[Andonis]

thank you Owen and John,

i guess there where other orthodox christians present whom felt as i, but knew that they would have wasted their breath if to protest. this is because the group giving the lectures where reciting their own gospel of moral anarchy. owr christian orthodox ways as far as they are concerned are the very reason why people in today's world suffer persecution, because we do not support and appraise every sort of behaviour under the sun.

as for standing up to rebut such remarks, it would be of little use, amongst those types of people. i think there is an orthodox prayer which instructs the faithful to not utter a word regarding the Lord's mysteries to the enemy. Enemy only in the context of their allegiance to an Ungodly doctrine, and not they're beautiful God created humanity which God's continues to love unceasingly.

i am everjoyed to hear that St Anthony the great spoke such prophetic words, considering i have been baptised in his name. i pray some of his divine wisdom can somehow transcend my clouded and earthly mind.

God bless you all

Andonis

[John Curtis Dunn]

Owen Jones wrote:
"If all modern man wanted to do was return to polytheism it wouldn't bother me that much. Polytheism is far preferable to what modern man wants."

My assessment was taken from St. Justin Popovich. St. Justin wrote: "...all humanisms, even the religious ones. All return man to idolatry, to polytheism, to the dual death, spiritual as well as physical. Distancing itself from the God-man, every humanism by degrees becomes nihilism. .... All European humanisms in their essence are nothing other than an unending revolution against the God-man Christ. Using all possible methods they achieve Umwertung aller Werte (the over throw of all values). The God-man is everywhere replaced by man. On all European thrones European humanists are seated. As a result there is not a single Vicarius Christi but innumberal ones in various costumes." [from REFLECTIONS ON THE INFALLIBILITY OF EUROPEAN MAN

Even the humanism of monoism which rejects the One God in Tri-unity is a return to polytheism. St. Justin points out that this return is led by both Roman Catholicism and Protestantism. "What is Europe?" St. Justin queried, "Europe is the Pope and Luther, human desire to the extreme and human knowledge to the extreme. The European Pope is the desire for authority."

That last sentence summarizes that to which the leaders of that mental health conference are pursuing. Such agendas are being pursued in the spheres of Educational professionals, especially at the lower grade levels. It is widespread throughout the Entertainment industry often poking fun at those who oppose it as homophobiacs.

It is widespread in the workplace. For a decade I worked in an enviroment where the Employer and the managment set the tone of Christian Righteousness. When I moved out of that employment situation into those which have a more secular or worldly management tone, I was quite shocked. The casual conversation of many includes the same agenda only in a more casual venecular.

Most men I now work with are personally oppossed to homosexuality, but they are not offended by the proliferation of literature, film, events or casual conversation which makes continual references to homosexual acts. Homosexual acts are in the heart of polytheistic man.

John

[Owen Jones]

I think Popovich perhaps gets a bit carried away at times with his own rhetoric. I also think that magic or alchemy is probably a more philosophical and historical description of the dominant social philosophy today. To simply call it polytheism is to degrade the classical tradition of polytheistic piety which is far superior to anything we have today, which is anti-piety. But Popovich's use of the term does not appear to be philosophical -- more rhetorical.

My point is that there is something unique about modern totalitarianism that no classical paradigm can explain. No oriental despot presumed to get into the minds of his subjects and control them the way the modern social scientist or politician does. In America, what we experience is what I call soft-core totalitarianism, as opposed to the Marxist, Hitler hard-core varieties.

[Andonis]

i agree Owen, the modern man is influenced to a much larger degree by this subtle, indirect approach where there are hidden meanings in media, tv, speeches etc. this has been markedly more successful than any overt hard-core campaign. hence modern man is totally controlled by a regime, a doctrine he cannot for the life of him elucidate. he no longer has any concrete values or ideas on life, no longer beleives this is possible or for that matter necessary. shifting ethics and moral anarchy become the norm, to the degree that the flock are under the
control of an elite few.

[sinjin smithe]

My point is that there is something unique about modern totalitarianism that no classical paradigm can explain. No oriental despot presumed to get into the minds of his subjects and control them the way the modern social scientist or politician does. In America, what we experience is what I call soft-core totalitarianism, as opposed to the Marxist, Hitler hard-core varieties

I would add that the recent advances in technology have fueled the thirst even more to get into the minds of people and their thoughts. People in the western world are giving up their rights and privacy to individuals that promise to provide and take care of them. Many put their hope in and believe that humans can transcend the things that has afflicted us since the beginning but they are only deceiving themselves. Someone once said, and I forgot who it was, that many in today's liberal social movements actually worship at the altar of man, and not God even though some may claim to that it is 'Christian' or 'moral' or 'right.'

[Elizabeth Riggs]

"put not your trust in princes or sons of men..."

Elizabeth

[Michael Swoyer]

I work for a local governmental Health Department and it is very PC. We don't have a Christmas celebration, it's called "Winter Holiday". I work with homosexuals. We serve drug addicts, the diseased, the poor, the unclean, and the generally smelly (or any combination thereof, plus a few others). I didn't really intend to end up here, and I thank God that he gave me a sense of humor, but all I can do is love them and treat them like the images of God that they are. I fail, many, many times.

But, I'm starting to realize that it's a revolutionary act to be a human being, and to treat others as human beings. To look beyond what we see on the surface and what others want us to see. To be alive is to be almost constantly resisting. Christ gives us strength to resist, and the even greater strength to love.

[Andonis]

i had an interesting conversation with a newly chrismated orthodox christian. although we came to agree on just about everything that we discussed, i did dispute him on some areas. not that his interpretation was wrong or false, in fact i found it quite interesting and valid. its just my perspective on these issues is different. for instance he described God as having a bad side, that is why he is at times wrathful. my version of the story was that yes indeed God enacts wrath on the unjust, but this is yet again an aspect of his goodness and love.

the other point we disagreed on was that he felt morality was relative, and i said to him i beleived that it was based on absolute truths, therefore not relative. i continued by saying that i beleive that our human experience teaches us that God stands for morality and love and that i beleive it was the law of the universe. although he was respectful of my point of view, he felt he couldn't subscribe to this idea as yet. the impression i got from him, is that he felt that the law of the universe is not based on love, and that the reason it is run by God is that he happens to be the stronger of the two forces good and evil, and that he will impose his will which is at times self serving and not based always on love.

[Owen Jones]

Andonis,

You are both right and you are both wrong.

[Andonis]

i can see what you mean and this why i am always cautious to discout opinions that do in fact follow a insightful discourse, and are coming from people like my freind whom i consider to be enlightened and spiritual. i guess both of us expressed variations of the truth...

[sinjin smithe]

One thing criticism I hear from Orthodox and some RCs is that the anti-abortion movement from the Orthodox is not existent. In fact one Byzantine Catholic said to me that he would be more inclined to convert to Orthodoxy if the saw a united front in Orthodoxy against homosexuality and abortion like there is in RC with JPII.

[Justin]

Adonis,

Are you from Australia? (I guessed that by your email addy). If so, I have a question or two for you, which came to mind as I read some of the things that the "newly chrismated orthodox christian" had said. Is there much catechesis (teaching) in the Churches before entrance into the Church? Also, do the Priests usually examine the person's beliefs before they are received, or are people received into the faith without much questioning?

[Fr. Gregory (Hallam)]

Does anyone know if there are any homosexual Christians in the Orthodox Church?

[Richard McBride]

"Does anyone know if there are any homosexual Christians in the Orthodox Church?"

Dear Blessed of the Lord, Gregory, Priest:

You know there are, Father. So, why do you ask?

richard subdeacon

[Fr. Gregory (Hallam)]

Dear Richard

.... because I want to inject a note of pastoral realism in here. Perhaps I should be less obtuse. With a concern for Orthopraxy goes a pastoral theology that backs that up. We can go on about PC culture as long as we want. It's a waste of time and effort. I don't expect the world to be anything other than the world. What preoccupies me as a priest is how I can care for my flock and bring them by my personal example as much as by teaching to the wells of salvation.

[Andonis]

dear Justin Kissel,
sorry i just caught your post now. in regards to your questions, yes i am from Australia. here in Melbourne, potential converts are put through catechesis before they are baptised. i don't think they're beleifs are closely scrutinised, other that informal discussions with the preist whom is catechising them. i know myself, i was baptised as a baby, and it is only now at 27 that i've come to some more concrete understanding of the faith i inherited. so i imagine it would be a bit innapropriate to expect an understanding beyond a basic level for those awaiting chrismation. i think in general people are received largely on the sincerity of their wish to become orthodox, even if they don't quite know what that means. they come out of love, and love they receive...in saying that, i'm sure that the preist exercises discernment in knowing when somebody is ready to be received in the orthodox faith.