Self worth

[Olympiada]

Dear Community,

The other day in church as my priest was reading from the Synaxorion and commenting, he looked directly at me and said "If you suffer from low self worth remember you are an adopted daughter of God". Of course this brought tears to my eyes, as does every sermon of my dearly beloved priest. But then I got to thinking about this concept of self esteem in American society.

I have a secular book on self esteem given to be my Jewish aunt that I can not read because it goes against my faith.

And in the Philokalia, which I do have a blessing to read from my godfather who is a priest, self-esteem is considered to be one of the eight vices.

I do not know how to reconcile what my priest seemed to be saying to me in church the other night with what the Philokalia says about the vice of self esteem.

Has anyone thought on this matter? I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

In Christ
Olympiada

[barbara bates]

Dear Olympiada, thank you for introducing such an important topic. It is one that I think about a lot too. I would start with the idea of humility, and its opposite, pride. Humility, as it seems to me, is not about self abasement and saying how terrible we are, what worms, what wretches etc etc that we are, but more about accuracy and truthful discernment. We are indeed adopted children of God, but in a fallen world, a fallen state, from which we are being redeemed. It seems to me that it is just as important to remember what we are becoming, as to be accurate about what gets in the way of that. Isn't this where confession comes in?

We also have two meanings of 'self' in modern parlance. One crops up in words like 'selfish', 'self centred', 'self-seeking', whereas the other is found in words like 'self-realization', and of course your 'self-esteem'. One has a negative connotation, in ordinary use as well as in spirituality, and the other is neutral, perhaps mildly positive.

I suppose it is a balance. We can't be psychologically healthy, let alone spiritually so, if all the time we are divided againast ourselves and berating ourselves for our faults and sins. It's all about a due awareness, an accurate humility, and thankfulness about the infinitude of the divine love.

Just some thoughts.

[Klod]

Of course there is self-esteemation in Orthodoxy. The question you are arising is whether this self-esteemation comes from us being with-hin God or from us apart from Him.

The second is pride, pride that one can achieve or be something apart from God, and it is this pride Philokalia is talking about.

The first is to be aware that basically as a human, man is God's child, created in His Image and Likeness, and that God loves man so much, so that He gave His only born Son, so that man may be saved.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Self-esteem is one of those new ambiguous words of our society that I am not sure at all help us in our spiritual life. This is because self-esteem as this is often meant strongly suggests pride as Olympiada points out. On the other hand I think it also points to man's deep unease with what he has become and a search for the basis of his dignity. After all the phrase 'self-esteem' is heard so often in a context of self-doubt it makes you wonder.
In the the spiritual life there is a very delicate line between awareness of our sins and despair over them. I don't think there is some point we are meant to get to so that this struggle of balancing just disappears. Rather the struggle is part and parcel of our spiritual life itself. So that we do not fall into despair it helps to understand that God's way of leading us is always for the rebuilding of what we were originally meant to be. It can easily seem destructive to us because there is so much that we are called to struggle against in ourselves. And this struggle increases not decreases. But God Himself assures us that what He is really doing through our struggle is recreating us- not destroying us. In time we see how the pattern of our spiritual life follows that of God when He said in regards to creation that "it is good."
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Olympiada]

Fr Raphael wrote


So that we do not fall into despair it helps to understand that God's way of leading us is always for the rebuilding of what we were originally meant to be. It can easily seem destructive to us because there is so much that we are called t o struggle against in ourselves. And this struggle increases not decreases.

Can you talk more about how this struggle increases not decreases because I think you are right. My struggle has gotten harder during this year, harder than it has ever been in my life. I do not understand this. In Christ Olympiada

[Father David Moser]

A simplistic approach to the whole concept of the value and place of the modern pop-psychological idea of "self esteem" might well be to focus on the world "self". As was noted, this "self" ideal pops up in a lot of places - some of which are given a definite negative value (selfish, self willed, etc) and others which are given a neutral or even positive value (self esteem, self reliant) by our society. I think that the best way to gain some perspective on these concepts is to remember that our fall stems from the prideful act of placing our "self" ahead of or in the place of God. Thus in order to reorient these modern "self" concepts - it is best to replace the "self" with "God". Thus we have "God-esteem" and "God's worth" instead of self esteem and self worth (basing our worthiness on God's love rather than on our own selfish opinion) or "God reliant" rather than self reliant (recognizing our dependancy upon God in all things) or "God willed" instead of self willed (recognizing our conformity to the will of God rather than our insistence on what we want) and so on. If we do this, it will help to put the "self"s of our modern society into a better focus.

Fr David Moser

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Olympiada,

I meant that God allows us to see our sinfulness more clearly. But this is in the context of us understanding His greater love.

What you are referring to I think is our struggles which God allows but then often comes a time of consolation.

Hope in God's love.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Olympiada]

Fr Raphael, You said hope in God's love. God's love is a crucifying love. How can I hop e in being crucified? The more God loves me the more He crucifies me. I am a human being. I do not want to be crucified. You got to help me out here. I am at an impasse. Christ is Born! Glorify Him! Olympiada

[Fr. George Morelli]

Olympaida ….As you know when post to the is site I always start with the disclaimer I am not a theologian simply a priest-psychologist. With this in mind may I offer a few reflections on the topic of self esteem. Unfortunately words used by individuals in various disciplines have sometimes the same and sometimes different meaning. In psychiatry-psychology the term self esteem arises in two general contexts. One as a mental disorder as in the Personality Disorder of Narcissism as defined in the Diagnostic Manual of Mental Disorders, IV-TR:: “a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy …..” On the other hand developmental psychologists would define self esteem “as being true to [the] real self” (Cole and Cole 1996, The Development of Children). Educators (Katz, 1993) acknowledge these two different usages. Clinically for example I tell parents in responding to what children do: to praise or critique the action, not the child: Say, for example” “Good job,” not “You are such a good boy or girl.”
Now the Church Fathers approach the issue of our worth from the ultimate Reality: the Divine Reality. In Genesis (1) we read that after God made man he said “it was good.” We are made in God’s image and called to be like Him. This image as the Church Fathers have told us is mainly in our intelligence and free will. God so loved us, He sent His only begotten Son for our salvation (Jn. 3:16) If we put on Christ at Baptism and continue to wash ourselves by the gift of tears of repentance we are able to reflect the light of Christ. Our constant prayer is “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.” We are creatures. We have no independent existence. We depend on God for all, but by his mercy we can have the light of Christ indwell in us. … This is a spiritual reality. ….but to have the Divine energy in us allows us to have “God in us.” This is a reality and truth. Bishop Hierotheos Vlachos calls the church a hospital that can cure our infirmities so this life in Christ can take place in us. Of course modern psychology only views a part of the picture, we as Orthodox Christians are blessed with the vision of the integration or synergia of body, mind, and soul. We must also accept the individual gifts given to each one of us by God. Did not St. Paul tell us some are prophets, teachers, administrators, etc. (1Cor 28)? To deny this would be to deny the reality of a gift given to us from God. In the parable of the talents Jesus told us we are also to use our “gifts”. (Mat. 25: 14-30). However, we have to also keep in mind the Funeral Service: “Thou [God] alone art immortal, who has created and fashioned man. For out of earth were we mortals made, and unto the same earth we shall return .”.and later “..I called to mind the Prophet as he cried: I am earth and ashes; and l looked again into the graves and beheld the bones laid bare, and I said: Who then is the kind and the warrior, the rich man or the needy ….” And at the Funeral Benediction: “ …establish the soul of His servant (handmaiden) N. who hath been taken from us, and number him among the just;” In other words we have by God’s grace the ultimate hope of our resurrection. I like to think of the spiritual value of our worth (all the reflections above and so much more that could be added) to be like a Divine symphonic piece. Any one section or instrument distorts the work. All have to be combined to play this Divine melody, so it’s beauty and meaning can be appreciated. In closing, in terms of contents I do not see an inherent contradiction between the psychological definitions cited above and the spiritual reality. Narcissism is clearly out of spiritual balance, and is thus an illness, a sin. ‘Healthy Self-Esteem’ is reality based as simple acknowledgement of our strengths and weaknesses-it is just now the Orthodox Christian can add so much more and put this ‘healthy self esteem’ in “Divine Perspective” ….in the healing Christ’s name …FrGeorge

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

We've got to learn to be like Abraham offering up his son Isaac - only to receive back something even more valuable- God's love & a new life.

This can only be understood by the experience of faith and of going forward into those dark situations of suffering into which God allows us. While we are going through this there seems no way out and only pointless suffering before us. But from experience we learn that this is how God allows us to grow spiritually and be aware of His love for us.

Our main enemy however is fear which can turn into open rejection of the path set before us. In some ways I guess we turn away from what God offers us even when we begin to not actively resist this. It takes time to accept God's purifying path for us. But at least each time we enter this path let us learn just a little bit more that God allows this not to torment or hurt us but rather to purify and rebuild us.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Olympiada]

Fr. Raphael, How do we grow spiritually? What is spiritual growth? Please give me the exegesis and theology of spiritual growth from suffering. Purification is the same as purgatory as fire, it hurts! My whole being screams "I don't want to be purified" while my spirit does. What a paradox. Christ is Born! Glorify Him! Olympiada

[Alec Lowly]

"I do not know how to reconcile what my priest seemed to be saying to me in church the other night with what the Philokalia says about the vice of self esteem."

Dear Olympiada,

Thanks for opening up this topic. Your question has prompted very enlightening and worthwhile posts. All I can add is a pop saying that I think is relevant: "God didn't make no junk." He made you, Olympiada, in total love, to inherit in Christ the promise of glory. It's OK to affirm your value as a creature of God; that's not the same as haughty pride, in which we fancy ourselves to be little gods. Not the same at all.

In XC,
Alec Lowly, sinner

[Daniel Jeandet]

Low-self esteem is a newspeak word designed to obscure the reality it is used to describe.

There is no "low" or "high" self-esteem since self-esteem is nothing more than the misuse of esteem. Self-esteem cannot be measured as low or high, the very act of turning to yourself and trying to measure your worth is asking to be decieved, as long as you try to measure yourself, its all false. You cant have more or less of it. You either give esteem to God and his creations or you give it to yourself.

Getting our minds onto God and the truth in all things and off of ourselves and how "grown up" we are is the purpose of prayer.

Saint Maximos says that as long as passions are active in us, we cannot have self-esteem. In other words, the conscience does not lie to us. Imagine the torturous madness induced in society when people are encouraged to both indulge thier passions, and "have" high self-esteem. (its here that they sell you the drugs). Saint Maximos says that it is only when the passions are gone, that self-esteem returns. If we overcome it, it is followed by pride. The medicine that cures pride is to ascribe ALL of our acheivements to God.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Olympiada,

As a psychologist, I have nothing to add to the eloquent words of Fr George above. I think this topic has been discussed before on the forum, but can't seem to trace the thread - perhaps Matthew can help?

Nevertheless, I would like to hear again from someone the Orthodox interpretation of "love thy neighbour as thyself", which is frequently (mis)interpreted to mean that Christ indirectly enjoined us to love ourselves with this command. If I remember correctly, the "self" is one of the three enemies in Orthodoxy, the other two being "the world" and the devil. Nevertheless, it is also true that "the Kingdom of God is within you", and that being created in His image "to know oneself is to know God" (St Isaac the Syrian?). So I suppose that the value attached to the self is dependent on the context of the author. Similarly, words like "self-esteem" can in my experience be really important in reminding us of our fundamental worth and dignity of calling, and when helping other people or oneself exit despair, but they can unfortunately also be used as an excuse for narcissism. The intention is all-important.

In Christ
Byron

[Klod]

One, actually many, ascribe their actions to God, and nevertheless, and moreover, because of that they are the most proud persons. I do not need to mention here the countless number of false prophets etc...

Therefore, neither ascribing one's doings to God, can cure one from pride.


Self-esteem, as long as it is done and seen with-in God, is from God, and as long as it is mis-used, seen and done apart from God, is sin.


That is because one's SELF exists only in God, not apart from Him. And man was created with dignity.


Is not the state of perfectness which makes one worthy of self-esteem within God, neither can sin disable man to know his SELF-esteem.
The Value of our's SELF comes from the mere fact of being created in God's image, and from being now, at this and every moment repentant sinners and passionate humans towards the way of perfections.



Orthodoxy is a middle way, it neither denies the value of man's self, even after the first sin, as the protestants mostly do, neither glorifies man in himself, denying the weakness of his nature because of sin.

[Fr. George Morelli]

Christ is Born! Using as a foundation the the answer I gave above I started an article on self-esteem that should be published in www.orthodoxytoday.org (http://www.orthodoxytoday.org) in about two weeks. I just finished a lengthy article on "Guilt" (reflecting on this topic from the basis of Orthodox spirituality and scientific psychology) as requested by an Monachos member 2 weeks ago: that should be published at the end of this week on the same website: orthodoxytoday (I just consulted with the editor) ..Posted already is an article on "Abuse" also based on a monachos member request. I pray the questions asked here are prompts from the Holy Spirit for us all to use our talents, given to us by Him, to convey Christ's message ...servant of Christ ...FrGeorge

[Olympiada]

Daniel, Well obviously then the next question is "How do we get rid of the passions in us?" Olympiada

[Olympiada]

> Dear Klod, > It is so hard to be a repentant sinner and a passionate human being on th= e way > to perfection now. I want to stop sinning now! I want to be perfect now! = I can > not stand this pain of repentance. Lord God have mercy! > Olympiada

[Alec Lowly]

"It is so hard to be a repentant sinner and a passionate human being on the way to perfection now. I want to stop sinning now! I want to be perfect now! I cannot stand this pain of repentance. Lord God have mercy! Olympiada"

Dear sister,

Patience can be defined as having the faith that the Lord knows what He is doing. Thus we cannot be saved without patience, which is a form of faith.

We enter the kindgom step by step. We take up our cross each day and follow Him. No matter how hard it gets, remember that we carry the cross only one day at a time. Think of it that way, it might help.

It's easy for me to write what I've written and move on. But please know that you're not alone. There have been times in my life when that cross was just too heavy and I was in despair of the Lord's love and care. I'm here to tell you that I was wrong about that, I came to see that I was totally mistaken about that, by His grace.

Also, keep in mind that nowhere is it written that we will stop sinning this side of the grave. All we have to do is to try to stop sinning and to keep repenting. I know it may sound strange, but I am grateful to God for my besetting sins. They teach me humility, every day. They keep me from getting puffed up and prideful.

Take your anguish to the Queen of Heaven. She will not let you down.

In XC,
Alec, sinner

[Fr. George Morelli]

Klod .. thank your comment on those who "ascribe their actions to God ..they are the most proud persons ...false prophets." The answer of course as taught by consensus of the Church Fathers is obedience. Bishop Hierotheos Vlachos quoting St. John Chrysostom states: '"For our married people have everything in common with the monks except marriage." All people should adapt themselves to Christ's commandments.' St. Neilos the Ascetic states: "disciples shold be obedient to their teacher when he is guiding them to holiness." St. Diadochos if Photiki tells us"It is well known that obedience is the chief among the initiatory virtues, fo first it displaces presumption andthen it engenders humility within us. Thus it becomes, for those who willingly embrace it, a door leading to the love of God." Summarizing the mind of the Church obedience has to exist all all levels from individual Christian to their spiritual father and/or mother, priest, bishop, archbishop, synod, patriarch, church council, church fathers, liturgy, teachings of Christ, in tradition and scripture in tradition: the Mind of the Church. If one does this; one knows this is God's will. Glory to God in all things!

[Daniel Jeandet]

God is revealed to a loving heart. A loving heart is one that accepts things as they are. Father Seraphim Rose said that. Another helpful thought is that God does not think about the past, every moment is new. Saint Anthony says not to remember the past. One man suggested that rather than beat my breast over my sins, I should ask who it is that my thoughts occur to, he said it helps to destroy evil thoughts. Some people say to simply thank God for everything that happens to you even if you dont like it. In my opinion all these things help but our tradition is the Jesus prayer and sacraments and Christs commandments. Ours is the best and surest, safest way.

[Olympiada]

Very Reverend Father George I am glad you said we must obey our priest and our bishop. There are some o n the internet who would dispute that, but not I. If I obey my priest and my bishop then I know I am doing my part. That keeps me safe. It seems that many Christians forget obedience is the first virtue, starting with me. Christ is Born! Glorify Him! Olympiada Kane

[Olympiada]

Daniel, Do you know where Father Seraphim Rose wrote that a loving heart accepts things as they are? Olympiada

[Antonios]

I found this article (http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/MorelliSelfEsteem.php) on the Orthodox perspective on self-esteem that answers many questions.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Antonios,

Thank you for posting a link to Fr George Morelli's article. It is a very concise and insightful summary of the Church's understanding of self-esteem. For me, however, there remains a question about the tension between, on the one hand, the psychological understanding of healthy self-esteem as an accurate, reality-based appraisal of our strengths, and a realistic acceptance of our weaknesses and limitations; and the deeper, theological understanding of the self-concept that is contained in phrases such as "yet not I live, but Christ in me". There is an almost Buddhist, or Sufi quality to St Paul's phrase, as it suggests that in order to let God act through us, we have to step out of the way. The distinctly Christian element is that, even as we attempt to put ourselves to one side for God, we never do so by a process of self-obliteration, but each of us does so as the distinct individual that we are: uniquely as Byron, as Antonios, as Fr George Morelli. In the same way God is entirely personal, not an impersonal force, we too are mysteriously in-dividual persons responding to Him through the talents He has given us, as Fr George has stated. And, if certain schools of psychology are to be believed (something I am doing increasingly less, and which I would caution against doing without awareness of the history of ideas!), none of us has an identical mix of talents.

Nevertheless, what I'm trying to say is that for me there remains a question of what we can attribute to ourselves in Christianity, since even our talents are from Him, since we do not possess anything that has not been given us. Can we, for example, take pride in experiencing His Grace? Or does He flee from us the moment we do so? This is related perhaps to the question of what a Christian can permissibly aspire to: when we ask for His mercy for example, should we believe we are deserving of it? I have the impression a Christian ought to believe that all his dignity of being originates with God, and that therefore it is not incorrect to feel that without Him we are but ashes and dust. We are never worthless, because He created us in his image and only a little lower than the angels, but we are also not to glorify ourselves for this: for all glory belongs to Him. This seems to me a very difficult path to tread, and that's where humility and obedience come in extremely handy!

In Christ
Byron

[Fr. George Morelli]

Byron Christ is in our midst! As we say in our Ambon prayer (from the epistle of St. James) "every good and perfect gift comes from above from thee the Father of Lights." ...None of us are deserving of anything all is a gift and no one knows God's will as to how they are distributed. Is Peter, Paul, James, George etc. My response (little personal prayer) is " I am unworthy, I do not understand ..thank you Lord for all ...the "heavens declare the Glory of God (Ps 19) ...as all the gifts you have blessed me with" How amazing we could be infinite non-existence if it were not for Him. But God sustains us and then personalizes as you say each gift in each of us. I also reflect it has nothing to do with the so called "human-social" domain .... the person humanly least gifted (by social definition), may be divinely more gifted in God's vision .... I hope these simple personal reflections are of some use ....in the healing Christ's Name ...FrGeorge

[Olympiada]

Byron wrote


There is an almost Buddhist, or Sufi quality to St Paul's phrase, as it suggests that in order to let God act through us, we have to step out of the way. The distinctly Christian element is that, even as we attempt to put ourselves to one side for God, we never do so by a process of self-obliteration, but each of us does so as the distinct individual that we are: uniquely as Byron, as Antonios, as Fr George Morelli. In the same way God is entirely personal, not an impersonal force, we too are mysteriously in-dividual persons responding to Him through the talents He has given us, as Fr George has stated.

Some of us are unduly and perhaps irrevocably influenced by Buddhism, my self included. I do not know that I can over come my tendency to 'self-obliterate' nor to sometimes see God as impersonal. In Christ Olympiada Kane

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Fr George,

Fr, bless!

A very happy new year to you and all forum members. Your personal reflections, Fr George are always very useful. I particularly liked the fact that you pointed out that the Church's understanding of "gifts" is not the same as in the "human-social" domain. For some of the first will be last, and some of the last, first. So often we are tempted to think of "gifts" as those things society cherishes, but the faith is not of this world, and in the sight of God there is no telling whether a humanly "successful" person is more "gifted" than a person with a divine calling to be ill, to be weak, to be a social "failure". Indeed, how would social "successes" measure themselves if there were no social "failures" for comparison?! Thank you for bringing the mind back to this, what seems to me a hugely significant Christian truth.

Dear Olympiada, although I personally believe firmly in our Orthodox faith, this has never meant, again for me personally, that there is nothing one can learn about or from other faiths. Buddhism and Sufism both have a great deal to say and teach about the human condition, and surely all Truth is ultimately one, all philosophies and religions from a Christian perspective ultimately lead us to the One Divine Logos. What seems to me to be dangerous in studying other religions and viewpoints is when we forget our personal God, or worse, are drawn to worship other deities. It seems to me that the rigours of Orthodox monastic obedience are in no way less demanding than the "self-obliteration" pursued in either Sufism or Buddhism; and while it is really impossible to get our rational mind around the fact that God is not an impersonal force, but three Divine Persons in loving communion with each other and creation, we can easily understand at least that we ourselves are personal beings with a unique destiny, which surely is best provided for by a Being equally - and more - personal to ourselves. That may sound a little confused or overstated, but I'm trying to talk outside my capacities to understand, so please forgive the unnecessary verbiage!

In Christ
Byron

[Olympiada]

Byron wrote


Dear Olympiada, although I personally believe firmly in our Orthodox faith, this has never meant, again for me personally, that there is nothing one can learn about or from other faiths. Buddhism and Sufism both have a great dea l to say and teach about the human condition, and surely all Truth is ultimately one, all philosophies and religions from a Christian perspective ultimately lead us to the One Divine Logos. What seems to me to be dangerous in studying other religions and viewpoints is when we forget our personal God, or worse, are drawn to worship other deities. It seems to me that the rigours of Orthodox monastic obedience are in no way less demanding than the "self-obliteration" pursued in either Sufism or Buddhism; and while it is really impossible to get our rational mind around the fact that God is not an impersonal force, but three Divine Persons in loving communion with each other and creation, we can easily understand at least that we ourselves are personal beings with a unique destiny, which surely is best provided for by a Being equally - and more - personal to ourselves.

Dear Byron, I first learned about faith in Buddhism. I learned about a lot the human condition and about Truth from Buddhism. I did not know a personal God before. But there is no deity to worship in Buddhism. It is non-theistic. And it is not just monastics who are called to obedience. It is all Christians. Paul Evodokimov writes about interiorized monasticism in many o f his books. I highly recommend them. My favorites are The Sacrament of Love, Woman and The Salvation of the World, and Ages of the Spiritual Life. It is true I am struggling to accept that God is not an impersonal force. That is where I am at in my spiritual life today. And to be honest, for me, it is so easy to understand that I am a personal being with a unique destiny. So much of my life if not all of it seems determined by instinct, not destiny. Anyways, I appreciate the conversation and I hope others can benefit from i t too. Yours in Christ Olympiada Kane

[Alec Lowly]

Byron writes:

" ... while it is really impossible to get our rational mind around the fact that God is not an impersonal force, but three Divine Persons in loving communion with each other and creation, we can easily understand at least that we ourselves are personal beings with a unique destiny, which surely is best provided for by a Being equally - and more - personal to ourselves. That may sound a little confused or overstated ... "

Not at all, brother Byron. It is exactly right and very clearly put.

I have a very close friend who is a faithful Buddhist. I wish that some members of my church were as dedicated to spiritual practice as she is.

In our talks, which are mutually loving and respectful, I have asked her, if personality is an illusion, then how does karma ("as you sow, so shall you reap") pass from one incarnation to the next? In other words, there has to be an abiding personal self or else the doctrine of karma means nothing.

God is all good things, to a supreme and immeasurable degree. The God Who created us as persons, therefore must be personal to a supreme and immeasurable degree. By revelation we know that degree to be the Trinity.

In XC,
Alec, sinner

[Fr Seraphim (Black)]

As I come to my surgery on Monday, Jan. 23rd, according to God's will may this be permitted to be my last testament.

From my beloved Father in God, Archimandrite Sophrony, from the multitude of Holy Mothers and Fathers God has blessed me to know in this life, these poor words I offer forth.

The delusion of an impersonal absolute is intellectual pride.

This, according to Father Sophrony is the ultimate and final hurdle of the greatest deceit of the Devil.

Fr. Sophrony himself suffered and battled this weapon of the Devil.

I do not judge others who have wandered into these dangerous waters.

Jesus Christ, born of the Virgin Mary, is God, is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity and is our comfort, joy, protection and Saviour.

This is the final Revelation, this is our Lord, God and Saviour. We are created in His image and likeness...if as St. Silouan so fervently prayed we find the humility of Christ then we enter into the eternal mystery of God.

[Olympiada]

Seraphim, I hope you are not going to your death. I will place you in my commemoratio n book this morning. It sounds to me like your saying that Buddhism, then, is intellectual pride , since it believes in an impersonal absolute truth. Is this what you are saying? That Buddhism, for one who knows the truth, is a Christian, is intellectual pride? I have never read someone's last testament. How chilling for a Sunday morning. Lord have mercy. Olympiada Kane

[Olympiada]

Byron, You misunderstand my tone. I am scared for Seraphim. I had a bad dream last night about some one dying from a terminal illness, a child actually. Person means hypostasis, made in the image and likeness of God. A theologia n once explained it to me. If you like I can give you his email address and you can ask him about this. Let me know. Since he is dead to me, I will share what with you what he wrote to me on this subject:


in the long run i don't think a westerner can really become a buddhist without qualification. Do you know that the word 'person' is really untranslatable into sanskrit? At the bottom, 'personhood' is a christian concept, developed within the terms of greek thought on the basis of the biblical experience of the encounter with God. That fundamental encounter with God in the Jewish Messiah really is there in our culture, and our very language presupposes it. So i can't quite prescind from it, even when i'm ignorant and haven't had any particularly deep exposure to christian jewish biblical thought. My suspicion would be that we would always feel a void at the center of other religions insofar as they don't address that-- and how could they do so, really. This suspicion of mine seems to have been shared by a number of high buddhist teachers as well, from the DL on down.

Yours in Christ Olympiada Kane

[Olympiada]

I am still struggling with this notion of self esteem. It is not Orthodox is it? What is the Orthodox response to low self esteem?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Olympiada asked


What is the Orthodox response to low self esteem?

At first sight it might seem like a very strange answer but the best response to low self-esteem is humility. And not just any type of humility- either humility as actively guided by a spiritual father. Or else I found this amazingly insightful statement from one of the New Confessors of Russia Blessed Bishop Barnabas:


You should consider yourself guilty in all things, even if an obvious lie has been told about you. You must know that this is from God for some sin committed perhaps many years ago. Always humble and accuse yourself, so that you can reply to whatever anyone says against you, 'Forgive me.' This is the fastest road to receiving grace; any other road is very long. On this road you need no guidance, whereas on other roads guidance is necessary.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Alec Lowly]

Dear Olympiada,

It is not my intention to contradict Father Raphael, who has given you good counsel, but I would like to add another insight.

One of the traps of low self-esteem is a preoccupation with the subject of one's low self-esteem. The danger here is that one becomes more and more self-centered, thus the esteem problem just grows bigger and bigger until one feels that there's no way out of the problem, no way around the problem. And this is false, of course -- sometimes diabolically so.

A Christian ought to know that, in the pop phrase, "God didn't make no junk." A Christian ought to know that he or she was created good by a good and loving God, Who seeks nothing less than the perfecting of His entire creation in joy and love. A Christian ought to understand that such is his or her value to the Lord Jesus Christ that He chose to die so that we -- all of us, each and every one of us -- might have life.

Strengthened by these things, a Christian suffering from low self-esteem should say, "Lord, I bear this cross, I don't know why, but preserve me by Your grace and empower me to turn away from my self so as to focus upon ~other people~ and their needs. Increase my faith. Increase my hope. Increase my love."

Then that Christian should get off his or her duff and set about feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick, comforting the sorrowful or any other such good work as can be found right at hand. Not only will this Christian be too busy to suffer much from low self-esteem, the simple human contact and the positive results from this contact just might vanquish the esteem problem entirely.

Glory be to God!

In XC,
Alec Lowly, sinner

[Olympiada]

Alec
I appreciate your counsel. In my case it would apply to me looking at my daughter. I have to make all my decisions with her best interests in mind.
Olympiada

[Father David Moser]

Alec said:

> One of the traps of low self-esteem is a preoccupation with the subject of one's low self-esteem. The danger here is that one becomes more and more self-centered, thus the esteem problem just grows bigger and bigger until one feels that there's no way out of the problem, no way around the problem. And this is false, of course -- sometimes diabolically so.

A Christian ought to know that, in the pop phrase, "God didn't make no junk." A Christian ought to know that he or she was created good by a good and loving God, Who seeks nothing less than the perfecting of His entire creation in joy and love. A Christian ought to understand that such is his or her value to the Lord Jesus Christ that He chose to die so that we -- all of us, each and every one of us -- might have life. <

What Alec posted expresses very clearly the whole Christian problem with "self-esteem". It is a problem because it is SELF esteem - it is self centered. Our esteem does not come from our self value but from God and the value that He places on us. We should not strive for high self esteem because that simply aggrivates the sin of our first parents who tried to replace God with themselves. We should instead strive to realize our high GOD esteem - that is the worth that comes from being God's creation and follow the path that God sets out for us. Humility is necessary in this process because before we can experience or realize "God esteem" we have to set aside all of our "self esteem".

Read carefully the life of St Silouan of Mt Athos and how he came to the realization of his famous saying "keep your mind in hell and despair not" and what all he means by this. It is indeed enlightening for he speaks of looking at oneself from a human perspective and seeing that we deserve to be in hell (talk about "low self esteem") but at the same time, he teaches us that as we sit on the brink of hell, we no longer depend on our own selves but cling to God alone who preserves us from being lost therein. We are cleansed from all of our self pretensions and self reliance and self centeredness and yes, self esteem by this and instead rely solely on that which God gives us and we are able to live God centered lives. But because of of our fallen nature and the tendency to forget God and return to our sins (as a dog returns to his vomit) it is also necessary to remain there, on the brink of hell so that pride and self centeredness (and yes, self esteem) do not get ahold of us again.

A Christian should not only reject the idea of "high self esteem", neither should he strive for "low self esteem" - he should in fact have NO self esteem, and only embrace God's esteem.

Once we stop looking at ourselves, then we can easily go on to the rest of what Alec mentioned, which is the practical working out of expressing God's love to the world. No longer do we do these "good works" from our own human love (self love) but rather we do them out of God's love. We have replaced the central core of our lives, no longer worrying about and focusing on "self" but now only focusing on God and on His love which now fills the vacuum left by our banished self love.


Fr David Moser

[Dionysios DiGregorio]

I think this is a very interesting and important post, and I absolutely loved "Self Esteem: From, Through and Toward Christ (http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/MorelliSelfEsteem.php)" written by Father George. I also absolutely agree with Father David in that the issue is one of "God Esteem" and not self-esteem. When we love God and all of His Glorious creation we are naturally full of love for everything that is of God, which of course includes our'selves' along with all creation. I think that the Orthodox answer to self-esteem is Divine Love.

It's obvious that popular psychology has contributed to this notion that what we all need is called self-esteem. We see printed affirmations taped to vanity mirrors, seminars held on "how to gain self-esteem and triple your income". One of my co-workers listens to cassette tapes on "Personal Power" and another has CD's of new-age music with subliminal messages of self-worthiness! They recite their affirmations as they commute to and from their meaningless jobs, never stopping to ask themselves if this is really an issue of 'self' esteem.

Do we really need to 'love ourselves'? It's obvious that people are suffering, but if 'self esteem' has anything to do with it I would think it's because people are presented with this concept as if it were an undisputable fact. The spiritually unfulfilled people of today are being told to learn to love and "re-parent" themselves. The talk show, the therapist and sometimes even from the pulpit, this message is that we are victims of 'dysfunction'. Members of the new religion of "Recovery" chime in to agree that self-hatred is at the core of our neurosis. It must be true, Oprah says it, Dr. Phil says it, the 12 step sponsor and the therapist all encourage us to 'love ourselves' and to work on issues of 'self-esteem'- however I've yet to read a Church Father once say anything about self esteem or 'loving ourselves'.

Of course now everyone looks to Psychology for the 'answers' and the Christianity of today has become so modern and 'relevant' to the times, that is has lost it's unique ability to heal as it once did for the millions of believers who held fast to it's precepts. Even Western theology/RC Liturgy or Mass now narcissistically gazes at its own reflection (as the people face the Priest and the Priest faces the people for example). When God is in His rightful place there are no issues like this.

I think that the difference in these opposing perspectives between the science of modern or 'pop' Psychology and the teaching of the Church Fathers is exemplified when comparing their terminology (forgive me for stating the obvious). The objective truth being that only a heart full of love can give love. In the humanist approach to this truth, divine love becomes self-love. The Fathers remind us to accept God’s love for mankind, and it is of this same synergistic cooperation between God and man that is has been said that "the Son of God became man so that we might become God" (St. Athanasios) It does take prayer and focused energy, or "faith and work" (St. James) but while a popular Psychologist might call this "self love" with the absence of God at the center of his ideology, the Church Fathers refer to it as Divine Love, with God in his rightful place.

Then there is the question of how to hold our heads up while yet being mindful of our sinful unworthiness? I believe it's accomplished by loving God and accepting His Divine love for us, always "mindful of our many sins", as Blessed Augustine writes: "not because I love them, but that I may love thee, my God."


A little more on this subject of hating the sin of the flesh without actually hating your self (or anyone for that matter) is addressed when Jesus elaborates on putting into practice as they say 'hating the sin and not the sinner' - it's written: "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26) St. Paul clarifies just what this hatred is in the Epistle to the Romans: "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I know not: for not what I would, that do I practise; but what I hate, that I do. But if what I would not, that I do, I consent unto the law that it is good. So now it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me. For I know that in me, that is, in my flesh, dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me, but to do that which is good is not. For the good which I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I practise. But if what I would not, that I do, it is no more I that do it, but sin which dwelleth in me".(7:14-20) This spiritual law is the high standard Christians are called to. Yet we are by our very nature full of the sinful desire we inherited from Adam, who sold out to sin. Through Christ Jesus we are "bought with a price" (1 Corinthians 6:20) and can be made whole through His Church "which he hath purchased with his own blood."(Acts 20:28) "But he who is sold is not a slave by nature. And again – note that he doesn’t say the flesh is evil, but what inhabits it" (St. Gregory of Palamas) So as we recognize all good things come from God, we become aware of our fallen nature, and will "hate all sin that dwelleth in us". Through repentance, reconciliation and communion with God we accept his grace, and willingly receive his divine love. As Saint John of the Ladder wrote: "Repentance is the daughter of hope and the refusal to despair. (The penitent stands guilty-but undisgraced.) Repentance is reconciliation with the Lord by the performance of good deeds which are the opposite of one’s sins."

So self-hatred is important, not self esteem; of course by self hatred I don't actually mean hatred of the self, but hatred of the sin: it's important to differentiate this hatred, just as the Holy Fathers differentiate between these different types or forms of love. At least by my reading, the Fathers have always taught that the love in one person, by himself, is not love but self love, selfishness, vanity and pride, but in Jesus Christ the Son of God is revealed to us as love that "passeth all understanding….In this was manifested the love of God toward us because God sent his only begotten Son into the world that we may live through Him. Herein is love, not that we loved God but that He loved us, and sent his Son to be a propitiation for our sins. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His love is perfected in us."(1 John 4:9, 4:10, 4:12) Christian love is a higher love, a love that is "not of this world" and that can only be perfected in us by the process of learning to love others and accepting the truth of God’s love for us. God-esteem indeed, very well put Father David.

Learning to love is definitely the answer but not by attempting to re-parent ourselves to gain self-esteem, but rather by accepting our inheritance as Orthodox Christians with God as Our Father, together with the Son and Holy Spirit, both now and forever and unto time eternal.

[Nina]

At first sight it might seem like a very strange answer but the best response to low self-esteem is humility.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

What about for the 'Generation Me'? :)

"College students think they're so special
Study finds alarming rise in narcissism, self-centeredness in ‘Generation Me’"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17349066/

Associated Press ET Feb 27, 2007

[Moses Anthony]

I am still struggling with this notion of self esteem. It is not Orthodox is it? What is the Orthodox response to low self esteem?

Olympiada,

The Fr's here have a more informed viewpoint on this than do I. This is just some of my thoughts.

Apart from the Lord Jesus Christ, it is impossible to really know who we really are. And while we're instructed to not seek the place of honor at feasts, to be servants to our fellowman, the Apostle Paul wrote the Corinthians: God considers us capable, has entrusted to us the "...Word of reconciliation...", we're ambassadors of Christ. And to the Church at Phillipi, "...I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me..." That seems to encapsulate the whole line of self-esteem thought; from humility in the recognition of personal frailties, to being a conquerer over all things in the ability Christ provides: "...most gladly therefore I will rather boast about my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may dwell in me...."

I am well aware of my sins, but overly dwelling on them , or my lowliness/humility, "...I'm just an old chunk of coal...", also is a dis-service to the redemption of our entire man that Christ has provided for us in His life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension to the Father's right hand!

the sinful and unworthy servant
moses

[John Charmley]

Dear Moses,

Thank you for the thought
I am well aware of my sins, but overly dwelling on them , or my lowliness/humility, "...I'm just an old chunk of coal...", also is a dis-service to the redemption of our entire man that Christ has provided for us in His life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension to the Father's right hand!

It is sometimes only the thought that He died for me that extracts from my sinful self the energy for repentance, because it is entirely possible that despite my manifold sins and wickednesses that through His Grace and through works and with the guidance and aid of the Church, I can yet be one with Him. Before Orthodoxy although I had that thought, it did not mean what it now means to me - and through it I am rescued from the awful temptation of total despair, where Satan tells me it matters not what evil I do for I am lost. I am not, He has found me, and through His Church I have found Him.

I can only say, with John Newton, 'Amazing Grace, How sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me, I once was lost, but now am found, was blind, but now can see.' Even it is as through a glass darkly; but the light of the Church serves to guide me toward the uncreated light.

Your words were a reminder of that inspiration - thank you for them.

In Christ,

John

[Celinda Grace]

I am still struggling with this notion of self esteem. It is not Orthodox is it? What is the Orthodox response to low self esteem?

I just discovered this thread and thought I would post here because it is something I have struggled with.

Olympiada,

In reading the Philokalia and seeing how the Fathers talk about self-esteem I have translated it vanity, the dispostion that underlies our desire to preen might be another good way to describe it. It is being dependent on our own good opinion of ourselves for the core validation of our own identity. Our knowledge of who and what we are ought to come from God not ourselves.

In the Fathers each fault has its own cure and the cure for vanity (self-esteem) is humility.

Nikitas Stithatos, "On the Inner Nature of Things"
"To speak humbley is one thing, to act humbly is another and to be inwardly humble is something else again. Through all manner of hardship and through outward labor of virtue those engaged in spiritual warfare can attain the qualities of speaking and acting humbly for these qualities require no more then the bodily effor of self-discipline. But because the soul of such people lack inner stability, when temptation confronts them they are easily shaken. Inward humility on the other hand is something exalted and divine, bestowed through the indwelling Paraclete only on those who have passed the midpoint of the spiritual way..."

"The soul is so distressed and oppressed when inner humility like a weighty stone has penetrated its depths, that it loses all its strength because of the tears which it uncontrollably sheds; while the intellect, cleansed of every defiling thought, attains like Isaiah to the vision of God. Under that divine influence it too confesses, 'How abject I am -I am pierced to the heart; because I am a man of unclean lips and I dwell among a people of unclean lips; and my eyes have seen the King the Lord of hosts.'"

Low self-esteem is the result of the fact that we try to feel good about ourselves through reflecting on our actions, our beauty, our intellegence or abilities etc. but we cannot give ourselves the kind of affirmation that we are made for. We are made to be affirmed as glorious and beautiful and worthwhile by an infinite God. Since we are not sufficient to ourselves there is always some emptiness, some feeling of lack in ourselves when the only affirmation we get is from ourselves. Vanity happens when we have totally escaped feeling the lack. If left unchecked it leads to pride. Pride is a refusal to accept reality. God does not usually let us live in our vanity very long. He will bring some circumstance or tempation into our lives that causes us to fail so that we can see reality again.

When God is prying our vision off ourselves and onto Him by showing Himself to us (not necessarily as a vision such as Isaiah had, but at some level we 'see' Him nevertheless) we feel terrible because we are no longer self-reflecting and patting ourselves on the back. This leaves an emptiness because there is no affirmation at all and we feel like we are nothing. As Nikitas says this oppresses and distresses the soul. Eventually we start to see ourselves more through God's eyes rather then always self-reflecting but again this can be unstable because we go back and forth between seeing the reality of our current sinful state the beauty God created us to have.


It is so hard to be a repentant sinner and a passionate human being on the way to perfection now. I want to stop sinning now! I want to be perfect now! = I can not stand this pain of repentance. Lord God have mercy! > Olympiada

One of the traps I have fallen into constantly is to strive for perfection. The more we struggle to get out of the pain the worse it gets. Also to strive for perfection is to stay trapped in vanity. We want to know we look good. The idea is to be united to Christ, not to look good. When we give up striving and say, "OK I don't care if I am perfect as long as I can be used by Christ and be with Him." Then the light comes in. The best thing is to sit still and let God do His work. Let Christ in you bear the burden and abandon yourself to His grace rather then worrying about your own perfection.

Isaiah 53:2-5,11
2He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

I have wondered before why we have to go through this struggle against sin after we are baptised. Why didn't God make it so that we just recieve the whole package of healing at once? I realized that our struggle is Christ's invitation for us to be with Him in His work of redeeming humanity and part of that redemption is our struggle within ourselves.

Our life in Christ is not ultimately about becoming perfect, it is about being with Christ, suffering with Christ and through this bringing Christ more fully into the world. We don't have to be perfect to do this, we are already doing it in the struggle.

[Archbishop Lazar]

Olympiada, we could not survive in a mentally healthy state without some form of self-esteem. What the Philokalia is referring to is vainglory, that excess of self-esteem that crosses a certain border. With no self-esteem one would become an emotional vegetable. There is one undeniable source of self-esteem, and that is the fact that Christ love each one of us enough to die for our salvation. Such self-esteem arises from Christ's love for us. What we see passed off as self-esteem in our era is sheer egoism and self-love.

[Nina]

How can we not have self esteem when we are created in the image of God?

[Anthony]

Following on from Nina's post, I was told that it takes a kind of humility to recognize that we are made in the image of God and that people may see that in us. In a sense, self-esteem is not the opposite of humility.

[Owen Jones]

There is no such thing as an independent self. So hatred of self is hatred of the false image of self, or the false concept of self, as an independent entity. So we are either slaves to that false self, or to God, which is not only the originator of the self, but without which there would be no self in the here and now. The self is nothing without God. The idea of the self is really the result of a dysfunctionality of mental capacity, or a short-circuit between mental and noetic capacity.

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Nina,

How does made in the image and likeness of God from dust sound?

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Archbishop Lazar]

I think that, as Orthodox Christians, we could not agree with Seraphim's assessment. While we all share in common the human nature, we each also have an individual hypostasis, which is added to us by grace. This hypostasis, which is a clear patristic ontologal category, is our individual self which we do not have in common, as we do with the human nature. The human nature is what all have in common and which is subject to the laws of nature. The hypostasis is the individual nature of each, and it is this which we each strive to direct, to build up, to perfect, to bring into accord with the life in Christ. The human nature itself can be redeemed only by Jesus Christ who assumed it and re-united it with God in Himself. The human nature, however, can be known only in individuals, which is evident from the fact that Christ assumed it in His own person. Our "self" is expressed in our individual hypostasis. However, this is to complex a discussion for a "Post Quick Reply."

[Nina]

Dear Nina,

How does made in the image and likeness of God from dust sound?

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Oh, how many times in a day I think of that, the question should be, dear Matthew!

Seeing my mother being buried less than 9 months ago, the memory is so fresh and vivid and that is a recurring thought for me.

My mother's was the first lifeless human body I saw in my life. Understanding, that the priest was closing the casket after the prayers at the cemetery, and that I would never in this life see my mother again, I kneeled and crouched almost to earth (we were standing on higher ground) in order to have a longer look at her face and extend that moment as much as possible while the casket was closing (that was because of the immense strength God gave me at that moment; if I had not known Him, then I would have run and hugged the corpse of my mother and not let go of her, ever- I kept thinking that I would see her in the Resurrection).

While looking at her beautiful face for the last time here, I had many thoughts, emotions and feelings which resembled a meteor shower hitting my being at full throttle ... but one thought stood out: how can my mother's beauty be going in earth and so early? If I was not a Christian that single thought would have been enough of a reason for following the wrong path in my life (hedonism maybe?). My mother was very beautiful and it was hard to comprehend the unavoidable: her beauty returning to dust, her death. Let alone to comprehend us as an image of God returning to dust. It is indeed a very humbling thought, I agree completely with you.

However I still prefer to think primarily that God breathed in that creation from dust (which was the lifeless body of Adam) and gave life to him. So not only we are created in His image, but also we have His breath in us (our souls) and that dust is a vessel for His gift (soul) to us.

Growing up I remember one of the precious advices my father gave me: "Respect yourself and body! Do not ever misuse, or abuse them!" These words contain a truth which is respect for one's self deriving from the fact that we are God's and are called to theosis (which is a great responsibility, that is inseparable from the esteem/respect for ourselves).

Also a sense of self esteem (not in the same meaning in which is used today, but in a spiritually healthy one) may serve as an incentive to reunite the gift (our soul) He gave us, with Him, to strive for theosis and Heaven. Since by esteeming ourselves we are in reality esteeming God, our Father, (what He gave us, His judgment and wisdom in creating us etc.) because for me it is a given that without God we are nothing, and when we realize that ourselves belong to Him, and that we have a responsibility of returning what is His' to Him, I think we have reached a healthy state of self esteem, and acknowledging ourselves as debtors to our Father.

[Owen Jones]

OK, let's stipulate that low self esteem is a legitimate problem. How do we raise our self esteem? By doing God's will and feeling good about it. Feeling that we have successfully, today, to the best of our ability, done God's will today, at least insofar as we have not willingly or deliberately disobeyed any of His commandments. We have not lied to ourselves or to anyone else. We have prayed. We have done some responsible work. We have not knowingly said or done anything to harm another person. If we have, we promptly admitted it. We can then put our heads on the pillow at night knowing that we have been successful, and success in spiritual warfare brings self-esteem (if you want to call it that). Then later you can move on to a more profound understanding of self-esteem.

[Elena]

I'm not sure that anything I have done has ever raised my self-esteem. What we are however and what we are asked to do, how can I sink into gloom when I remember that we are the loving creation of God and called by Him "to become partakers of the divine nature, to become sons by adoption in the only begotten Son and in the only Son; to become, in the very words of Irenaeus of Lyons, the only begotten son in the total Christ."

I am completely unworthy of such grace, but as it is bestowed upon us how could I possibly have low self esteem.

[Father David Moser]

The whole concept of "self esteem" comes from a society which rejects God wholesale. For these people, God gives us nothing, we have to rely on ourselves for everything. Thus he focus of our lives changes from God to self (just like the sin of Adam - attempting to replace God with one's self).

"Self-esteem" is a problem because it is SELF esteem - it is self centered. Our esteem does not come from our self value but from God and the value that He places on us. We should not strive for high self esteem because that simply aggravates the sin of our first parents who tried to replace God with themselves. We should instead strive to realize our high GOD esteem - that is the worth that comes from being God's creation and follow the path that God sets out for us. Humility is necessary in this process because before we can experience or realize "God esteem" we have to set aside all of our "self esteem".

Read carefully the life of St Silouan of Mt Athos and how he came to the realization of his famous saying "keep your mind in hell and despair not" and what all he means by this. It is indeed enlightening for he speaks of looking at oneself from a human perspective and seeing that we deserve to be in hell (talk about "low self esteem") but at the same time, he teaches us that as we sit on the brink of hell, we no longer depend on our own selves but cling to God alone who preserves us from being lost therein. We are cleansed from all of our self pretensions and self reliance and self centeredness and yes, self esteem by this and instead rely solely on that which God gives us and we are able to live God centered lives. But because of of our fallen nature and the tendency to forget God and return to our sins (as a dog returns to his vomit) it is also necessary to remain there, on the brink of hell so that pride and self centeredness (and yes, self esteem) do not get ahold of us again.

The advocates of self esteem would have us think that there are only two options - high self esteem and low self esteem - but this is just not true. Both high and low self esteem share the same fault - they are self centered and rely on "self" as the source of any kind of esteem or personal worth. A Christian should not only reject the idea of "high self esteem", neither should he strive for "low self esteem" - he should in fact have NO self esteem, and only embrace God's esteem. Once we stop looking at ourselves, then we have replaced the central core of our lives, no longer worrying about and focusing on "self" but now only focusing on God and on His love which now fills the vacuum left by our banished self love.


Fr David Moser

[Nina]

Dear Father David,

Your Blessings.

I would like to understand better, and I have a question. When you say that we should have no self esteem, I go on to thinking that every single thing I do in my life has something that incorporates self esteem to some extent. From using the 'I' in a sentence, up to the fact that I am not in a subterranean cave lamenting my sins at the moment. This latter state only will make me feel like I have no self esteem. Because just by going to my car and making the decision to drive somewhere, although I pray, I feel like I am relying somehow on myself (energy etc). I make the sign of Cross on the steering wheel and on myself, but if there is no self esteem I will not be able to act at all... I am confused and need your advise please. Also can you point to any writings from the Fathers dealing with this problem, because honestly I do not know how not to have self-esteem (Maybe I am using the wrong term. I know that I am the sinner, but I feel like I have some value because God created me, and His creation is good - it is another story if I misuse what He created. What He did is very good, what I do can be very bad - so I am in no way glorying myself, but Him. But of course one does not have any value if they end up in Hell.)

[Father David Moser]

Nina,

Your understanding of "no self esteem" remains caught in the false dichotomy of the humanists. It is not about low or high - it is about the self as the origin or source of my worth vs God as the origin or source of my worth. It is important to have high "God-esteem" in that we understand that we are valuable, good, capable, even powerful with God's help, but that of myself, I can do nothing (see also John 5:30).

By myself - I am nothing - but by God's mercy and grace I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. (Phil 4:13).

Fr David Moser

[Nina]

Nina,

but that of myself, I can do nothing (see also John 5:30).

By myself - I am nothing - but by God's mercy and grace I can do all things through Him who strengthens me. (Phil 4:13).

Fr David Moser

But I never maintained the opposite of this, dear Father David. I believe with all my heart what you quote above (actually those quotes breath with me, live with me and move with me because I know who I am and that without Him I will be lost)!

I think that the semantics are the cause of confusion here. By self esteem, I do not mean the secular notion of self esteem in our society, which is divorced from good works and from God. What I mean with self esteem, is a human dignity drawn from religious perspective that is that despite our sinful nature we remain created in His image, Who calls us His sons. There is nothing wrong when such pride originates from an intimate relationship with God (we have been baptized - we put on Christ), however this pride becomes problematic and it turns into hubris when we sever it from the Source, for our God is the Source of our pride. That is why I always say Thank God!, Praise God!, God willing! etc.

[Father David Moser]

Nina,

Yes, yes, we are saying the same thing. Please continue on the path that you know to be true and don't let my poor words confuse you.

Fr David

[Nina]

My words are poor and confusing, because this is not my mother's language. I (we) need your words because you are a priest of our God. I knew we were sharing the same belief, that's why the need for clarification. Thank you and your blessings, dear Father David!