Theosis

[Theopesta]

I find this quation on:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosis: on Union with God in Catholic traditions east and west


It is also necessary to recall that in the west there is a problematic form of ecumenism in vogue, in which people are quick to deny their own truths in order to appear to exalt the other. Some Catholic writers consider it lamentable that the term theosis is not used more extensively in western theology

this part present till: 11/7/2005, but I am not find it today.
I need to under stand more obviously what this mean??

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Thepesta,

You seem to have taken the two sentences in your quote above from two different parts of the one article...I wasn't able to find where the first sentence came from to understand its context completely.

In any case the person who wrote this article seems to be saying that the west both before & after the Schism of the 10th century also had a spirituality which emphasised union with God or theosis. The first sentence is saying that now the west does not know about its own spiritual heritage of theosis because of ecumenism.

I have to say that I really do not follow this argument at all. After all theosis as a major part of western spirituality was lost long before the rise of ecumenism. And even if this understanding had really been lost in more recent times why would we attribute this to ecumenism? If ecumenism was really the force at work we could naturally expect the opposite- for the west to emphasise theosis just like the east.

In any case I would say that there was indeed a spirituality of theosis or union with God in the west after the Schism. The crucial thing however is that in understanding and practice this became increasingly non-Orthodox. After the Schism in the west union with the Divine increasingly means an 'ecstasy' that verges on loss of the person (this idea is extremely un-Orthodox). Connected to this is increasing stress on the emotional and intellectual as paths to this union with the Divine. The role of asceticism in achieving this union also come to be seen and practiced much differently from Orthodoxy. So it is not that there is no longer an interest in union with God in the west after the Schism- it is more that the definition of what this union means and the means to attain it changes.
Lastly I would say that to the extent that an understanding of what union with God means has been lost in the west this is due not to ecumenism but rather to the general drift in western Christianity towards moralism.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Theopesta]

thanks our father,

the frist sentence present till 11/7/05 I have an old saved file on my computer
but today when I return to this item on the net I am not find this sentence

please father can I know how monks in athos struggle healthy in the correct way of theosis?

[Theopesta]

what is the correct use of asceticism, emotional and intellectual in the correct way and manner {phronema} in the struggle to theosis

[Theopesta]

please are the moralism counterdict with the spritual struggle?
what is the correct role of moralism in the union with god?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Theopesta,
Forgive me that I am not able to get to your questions right now. I am wondering if someone else would be able to try to answer these three questions of Theopesta.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Leandros]

Sister in Christ, Theopesta dem,

you can find the book "SAINT GREGORY PALAMAS AS A HAGIORITE" (http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b16.en.saint_gregory_palamas_as_a_hagiorite.01.htm ) by Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos. "Hagiorite" is the name for a monk in Mount Athos. The term "Hagiorite" comes from the words hagios + oros -> holy mountain.

There are several chapters on line (http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b16.en.saint_gregory_palamas_as_a_hagiorite.01.htm ).

You can also find this article about Pietism as an Ecclesiological Heresy (http://www.philthompson.net/pages/library/pietism.html) by Greek proffessor Christos Yannaras, which covers the issue of "moralism".

This is a small part from the article:

"A host of people today, perhaps the majority in western societies, evaluate the Church's work by the yardstick of its social usefulness as compared with the social work of education, penitentiary systems or even the police. The natural result is that the Church is preserved as an institution essential for morals and organized like a worldly establishment in an increasingly bureaucratic fashion. The most obvious form of secularization in the Church is the pietistic falsification of her mind and experience, the adulteration of her own criteria with moralistic considerations. Once the Church denies her ontological identity-- what she really, essentially is as an existential event whereby individual survival is changed into a personal life of love and communion-- then from that very moment she is reduced to a conventional form under which individuals are grouped together into an institution; she becomes an expression of man's fall, albeit a religious one. She begins to serve the "religious needs" of the people, the individualistic emotional and psychological needs of fallen man."

I hope that you can find the answers to your questions in these publications.


(Message edited by lpap on 26 July, 2005)

[Kosmas Damianides]

Dear Theopesta Dem,

I suggest you read this link. It is very interesting.

From Clapping Hands to Still Small Voice (http://www.beliefnet.com/story/166/story_16665_2.html)

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Theopesta Dem,

About what you were asking yesterday.

Here excerpts of an article by Justin Popovich called The Theory of Knowledge of St Isaac the Syrian (http://www.holophotal.net/theoryisaac.html). The whole article can be found in the book Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ by Fr Justin Popovich.

In one of Kosmas' posts today there is also this,


Frederica Mathewes-Green, a former Episcopalian and author of "Facing East: A Pilgrim's Journey into the Mysteries of Orthodoxy," said the experience of Orthodoxy was "startlingly different" from anything she'd known in Western churches. But it clicked when she saw it was directed toward God rather than her own emotional needs.

"It called us to fall on our faces before God in worship and to be filled with awe at his glory. I could never go back. I now find Western worship tedious and sentimental. To me, the contrast is jolting."

About Mt Athos or The Holy Mt I also found this about Photios Kontoglou whose repose is remembered on this day.


Repose of Photios Kontoglou (1965)

He is called "Blessed Photios" by many, but has not yet been officially glorified. In the twentieth century, he almost singlehandedly restored the practice of true Byzantine iconography to the Church. He was born in 1895 in one of the many Greek towns of Asia Minor. He and his family fled to Greece during the "exchange of populations" of 1923, when more than a million Greeks were driven from Turkey and resettled in Greece. He studied to be a secular artist, but was increasingly drawn to Byzantine iconography, the practice of which had almost disappeared: he learned the iconographic ethos and technique by copying ancient models and studying with the few monks on the Holy Mountain who still practiced true iconography. Initially his work was scorned, since secular western standards had come to dominate even the art of the Church. Slowly, through his tireless labors, an understanding of Orthodoxy iconography was restored to the Church, not only in Greece, but throughout the world. Though married, he lived his life in poverty, often donating his work to churches or performing it for nominal fees. His deeply spiritual writings are greatly honored in Greece, though most remain untranslated into English.

I hope this helps.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Theopesta]

many thanks to all, as I can understand more obviously many points, specially about the practical life of theosis in catholic and in orthodox, many thanks,

in coptic church because our culture we not use the term "theosis" but we belive with it as I read about it in your sites

[Leandros]

Fr Raphael, thank you for the link.

I find the following quotation quite remarkable, because it says so much (almost everything) in so little space:

"There is no doubt that knowledge progresses through man's virtues and regresses through the passions. Knowledge is like a fabric woven by the virtues on the loom of the human soul. The loom of the soul extends through all the visible and invisible worlds. The virtues are not only powers creating knowledge; they are the principles and source of knowledge. By transforming the virtues into constituent elements of his being through ascetic endeavour, a man advances from knowledge to knowledge. It could even be possible to say that the virtues are the sense organs of knowledge. Advancing from one virtue to another, a man moves from one form of comprehension to another..."

May God bless us, all.

[Kosmas Damianides]

I am quite concerned that there is no reference to Biblical basis of our belief of Theosis in the WIkipedia article. It also says that "some Orthodox thologians" believe that God would have become human in order to bring us Theosis. I thought that this was Biblically based too. Why would God leave the Tree of Life in the garden of EDEN? Wasn't it because He waited for the right moment for us to be mature enough to take it? But this never happened because of the fall...until now that Jesus came.

[Theopesta]

I think the biblical bases I I am not mistaken is:

1- Heb12: 14
(AKJV) ".. and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord"

2-Php3: 10- 12
10 (AKJV) That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable to his death;
11 (AKJV) If by any means I might attain to the resurrection of the dead.
12 (AKJV) Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

3- 1 Thessalonians 3:13
(AKJV)"To the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

4- 2 Corinthians 7:1
" Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all
filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

5- 1 Peter 1:15,16
But as he which has called you is holy, so be you holy in all manner of conversation;

Because it is written, Be you holy; for I am holy.

6- 2pet1: 3, 4
3 (AKJV) According as his divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that has called us to glory and virtue:
4 (AKJV) Whereby are given to us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness,


2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen

7- 3 John 1:11
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that does good is of God: but he that does evil has not seen God.

[Theopesta]

about the efect of moralism I found:

I must admit that I was very disappointed of the moralism which prevailed among many Christians. And when I say moralism, I do not at all mean the morality which we respect -because even the body must be sanctified and purified-; I mean the mentality that we must see all topics externally and physically. The Pharisees of the Lord's time had moral principles and such ideas, yet they were not able to accept Christ


this quotation from:
© Metropolitan Hierotheos of Nafpaktos
THE ILLNESS AND CURE OF THE SOUL:
How I was led to the conclusion that Orthodoxy is a therapeutic treatment

I take this link from brother leandros

[Theopesta]

how I can join the nature of christ in incarnation and nature of us the humans which are important in the theosis.

can I say the incarnation return to us the ability of unification and direction all parts of soul (intellict, thymic, desiring) to move towards god again as in paradise but with a unique grace which hidden in the eucharist

in christ, theopesta.

[Theopesta]

Holy transfiguration to you all,

I find this text in
JOHN OF DAMASCUS: AN EXACT EXPOSITION OF THE ORTHODOX FAITH, BOOK III, chapter XX:Concerning the natural and innocent passions

He assumed all the natural and innocent passions of man. For He assumed the whole man and all man's attributes save sin. For that is not natural, nor is it implanted in us by the Creator, but arises voluntarily in our mode of life as the result of a further implantation by the devil, though it cannot prevail over us by force. For the natural and innocent passions are those which are not in our power, but which have entered into the life of man owing to the condemnation by reason of the transgression; such as hunger, thirst, weariness, labour, the tears, the corruption, the shrinking from death, the fear, the agony with the bloody sweat, the succour at the hands of angels because of the weakness of the nature, and other such like passions which belong by nature to every man

All, then, . He assumed that He might sanctify all

He was tried and overcame in order that He might prepare victory for us and give to nature power to overcome its antagonist, in order that nature which was overcome of old might overcome its former conqueror by the very weapons wherewith it had itself been overcome.

The wicked one then, made his assault from without, not by thoughts prompted inwardly, just as it was with Adam. For it was not by inward thoughts, but by the serpent that Adam was assailed. But the Lord repulsed the assault and dispelled it like vapour, in order that the passions which assailed him and were overcome might be easily subdued by us, and that the new Adam should save the old.

Of a truth our natural passions were in harmony with nature and above nature in Christ.

For they were stirred in Him after a natural manner when He permitted the flesh to suffer what was proper to it: but they were above nature because that which was natural did not in the Lord assume command over the will. For no compulsion is contemplated in Him but all is voluntary. For it was with His will that He hungered and thirsted and feared and died.

in christ

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Theopesta,

The comments from St John reminds of one of the basic notions of our incarnational belief: that which we are is that which Christ joins to himself. What humanity truly is (though not what it has deficiently become through sin) is not a hindrance, but the means of our salvation, as united to Christ.

INXC, Matthew

[Theopesta]

if your reverenced please I cannot understand what the mean of:


What humanity truly is (though not what it has deficiently become through sin) is not a hindrance

many thanks
in christ

[Theopesta]

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b16.en.saint_gregory_palamas_as_a_hagiorite.11.htm #s13g

Christ’s Transfiguration, in other words, took place during prayer. Analysing the text, we can certify that the prayer of the Lord on Tabor is similar to His prayer in the garden of Gethsemane...Christ then embraced the whole world with His love, and His Disciples as well, in order that their faith in Him and their unity together might be strengthened.

Then follows silence, the effort to abide by the will of God, the ascetic life through which a person’s heart is purified of passions and evil thoughts. Basically it is a struggle for purity, which proceeds through patience, perseverance and hope in God. In this state human dialectics are not needed. In reality this silence is orthodox hesychia in the full meaning of the word –bodily stillness and noetic stillness. And of course the person comes to the vision of God in an atmosphere of prayer, and especially prayer which is for the whole world. It is only such complete and universal prayer that takes the nous to the vision of God

There also must be abeyance of the senses and of the spoken word, observance of the Sabbath, which means entering into the seventh day, which is man’s life beyond words, overcoming the rule of logic, and then a person experiences the eighth day, that is to say, he attains vision of the uncreated Light, which is the Kingdom of God itself

The only method which leads to deification and vision of the uncreated Light is the ascetic way that is Christlike and in Christ

the cure of the soul is attained through the sacramental and hesychastic life. Without this combination it is not possible for orthodox life and orthodox theology to exist

in christ

[Theopesta]

I am trying to compere between the 3 saints:

st. Antony, st. Isaac, st. Palamas
I find the 3 have the same mind the same way about the importance of stillness and silence

also, st. Isaac speak about the uncreated light rising in the nous and heart,

about the effect of spiritual reading st. Isaac:

by reading the Nous approach GOD and still in HIM always, the physical asctic work should unite with the noutic internal work, if the the working NOUS can complete what the body incapable to perform in the excelent way

[Theopesta]

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b16.en.saint_gregory_palamas_as_a_hagiorite.01.htm #s1bhttp://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_down.gif

All spiritual life is a result and fruit of the energy of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the saint taught, we cannot participate in God's essence, but we can know and participate in His energies. As the great dogmatic theologian St. John of Damascus teaches, we can see His three unions: union in essence, of the Persons of the Holy Trinity; union in substance, in the Person of Christ between the divine and human natures; and union in energy, between God and man

[Theopesta]

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b05.en.the_illness_and_cure_of_the_soul.01.htm#me5 http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_down.gif

Maximos the Confessor says that a person's deliverance from pain and pleasure is the sign that he has passed the stage of purification; the sign that he has passed or is at the stage of illumination is his deliverance from ignorance and forgetfulness of God; and the sign that he has reached theosis is his liberation from fantasy and all images which the world of the senses brings to him

illumine my darkness"

[Theopesta]

http://www.holophotal.net/theoryisaac.html

Human nature is capable of true contemplation when it is cleansed from the passions by the exercize of the virtues

thing is certain: that knowledge, on all levels, depends on man's religious and moral state. The more perfect a man is from the religious and moral standpoint, the more perfect is his knowledge. Man has been made in such a way that knowledge and morality are always balanced within him.

There is no doubt that knowledge progresses through man's virtues and regresses through the passions

Healed and made whole by the religious and moral power of the virtues, a man gives expression to the purity and intergrity of his person particularly through the purity and integrity of his knowledge.

ps 119: 32
(AKJV) "I will run the way of your commandments, when you shall enlarge my heart."

[Theopesta]

http://www.holophotal.net/ambrosespeak.htmlhttp://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_down.gif

He is wise, then, who knows how to keep silent.

Therefore the saints of the Lord loved to keep silence, because they knew that a man's voice is often the utterance of sin, and a man's speech is the beginning of human error

We are chastised by the silent reproaches of our thoughts, and by the judgment of conscience. We are chastised also by the lash of our own voice, when we say things whereby our soul is mortally injured, and our mind is sorely wounded

as he saw there was no one who could keep his mouth free from evil speaking, he laid upon himself the law of innocency by a rule of silence

in the silent biddings of my thoughts, I have enjoined upon myself, that I should take heed to my ways

such as Susanna's was, who did more by keeping silence than if she had spoken. For in keeping silence before men she spoke to God, and found no greater proof of her chastity than silence. Her conscience spoke where no word was heard, and she sought no judgment for herself at the hands of men, for she had the witness of the Lord. She therefore desired to be acquitted by Him, Who she knew could not be deceived in any way. (Sus. 5:35)

Let us then guard our hearts, let us guard our mouths.

[Theopesta]

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b05.en.the_illness_and_cure_of_the_soul.04.htm#kno 4
Theoria-vision of God

-In other words, did theosis and theoria occur before the incarnation and the Resurrection of Christ?

-Yes, indeed. Vision-theoria of God presupposes man's theosis. But the theosis of the Prophets was temporal and death was not ontologically abolished, that is why they went to Hades. We have real theosis in the case of the three Apostles on Mount Tabor, because they saw the glory of God through theosis. Yet while they were seeing the uncreated Light through theosis, that is internally, they themselves were outside the Theanthropic Body of Christ. The Theanthropic Body, which is the source of the uncreated glory due to the hypostastic union, was outside the disciples. Later, on the day of Pentecost the disciples became Body of Christ -members of the Body of Christ- and thus they saw the glory of God internally, through theosis, but also within the Theanthropic Body. This is the difference between the theoria of the disciples before Pentecost and after Pentecost, and what St.Gregory Palamas teaches.

[Theopesta]

http://www.stvladimirs.ca/library/way-ascetics-thirteen.html
Way of the Ascetics: By Tito Colliander
Chapter Thirteen: ON PROGRESS IN DEPTH

How can we make a beginning, then, we who have never penetrated into the heart? We stand outside, but let us knock with fasting and prayer, as the Lord commands when He says: Knock and it shall be opened unto you (Matthew 7:7).
For to knock is to act. And if we stand fast in the word of the Lord, in poverty, in humility, in all that the injunctions of the Gospel require, and night and day hammer upon God's spiritual door, then we shall be able to get what we seek. Whoever will escape darkness and captivity can walk out into freedom through that door. There he receives the disposition to spiritual freedom, and the possibility of reaching Christ, the heavenly King, says St. Macarius

[Theopesta]

http://www.stvladimirs.ca/library/way-ascetics-fourteen.html
Way of the Ascetics By Tito Colliander
Chapter Fourteen: ON HUMILITY AND WATCHFULNESS

WHOEVER engages in inner warfare needs at every moment four things: humility, the greatest vigilance, the will to resist and prayer. It is a matter of dominating, with God's help, the "Ethiopians of thought," thrusting them out by the door of the heart, and crushing at once those who dash your little ones against the rocks (Psalm 137:9).

each sunday and you all in peace
holy litergy
pray for me you all

[Owen Jones]

How do we make a beginning? Spend a day specifically working on inner thoughts. Immediately reject all negative thoughts toward others. When a thought comes in, immediately, fervently, pray to God to remove it and pray for that person. Spend an entire waking day doing this. Make a written record.

From there, one can begin to be more precise, isolating anger, resentments, fears, guilty memories.

Then moral action when necessary, to right whatever wrongs we have committed, as long as it does not make things worse.

After this initial work, spend at least an hour a week on this inner work. Bitterness will be cast out. Inner peace will replace it. A natural state of humility will begin to take over. This is true spiritual worship, the transformation of the inner life, without which our outer worship, our church rituals, are not only meaningless but dangerous, because it leads to pride and self aggrandizement.

[Theopesta]

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b05.en.the_illness_and_cure_of_the_soul.02.htm#rea son

http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_down.gif

{If the nous is healthy, love is also healthy, because it turns to God and thus the "intoxication" of the spirit and the ecstasy of the mind is activated. If the nous is ill, we fall from true love, that is we experience the idol of love, which is called by the Fathers "impious love"}

[Theopesta]

http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/

Prayer as an Important Aspect of Our Spiritual Life:

We have prayer with words, and we can also make our entire life a prayer, a sacrifice of consecration to God, a prayer without words, which is perhaps the strongest and greatest prayer. Let us sit, patiently, tirelessly, as permanent disciples listening to God speak. Ignorant, innocent, humble, poor, dumb before the all-merciful Father, let us beseech his mercy, his salvation and his salutary help with "ineffable sighs." With a silent humble prayer, let us allow God to speak in our life. Let us allow him to do whatever he desires with us, that we may become similar to the saints, his ever obedient children, and be restored to our pristine and original beauty, making his life truly our own life.

[Theopesta]

Thoughts of Venerable Isaac the Syrian
http://www.stjohndc.org/russian/english.htm

The heart does not receive leadership from virtues displayed among men. Virtue that a man shows before a man does not have the power to cleanse the soul. All the same, it too is accepted by God, in order to receive its wage and reward. But perfection, effectuated by a man in himself, is suitable for the one and the other: it is accepted for his reward and it arranges cleansing. Therefore, lay aside the former and cleave to the latter. And if thou wilt not cleave to the latter, to abandon the former means manifestly to deny God. But the latter fills up the place of the former.

[Theopesta]

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/gabriel.html

http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_right.gif 15. Our purpose should be to have the Paraclete* in our heart, even when we have the... Parasite in our head.

http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_right.gif 23. Many times what God expects from us is the intention rather than the act itself. Our readiness to follow His Commandment is enough for Him.

http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_right.gif 27. To reach the state of non-existence, love and love and love until you identify yourself completely with the Other One, whoever this may be at the time. Then, at the end of the day you may ask yourself: Is there anything I want? No. Is there anything I wish? No. Is there anything I lack? No... So, that's it!

[Theopesta]

http://www.greekorthodoxchurch.org/neptic_monasticism.html

The Lady Theotokos gave us the perfect example of hesychastic life and neptic work, according to Gregory Palamas. In the Holy of Holies, in Solomon’s temple, she carried out the practice of the virtues and unceasing noetic prayer for twelve years, and through them she was able to unite her entire being with the Grace of the Holy Spirit: “Having then rejected these, the earthly relations, from the beginning of her life [writes St. Gregory, and St. Nikodimos the Athonite gives us in translation] the Virgin left the people… separated from every material bond; she ejected every relationship; she rose above every kind of love, including that of her own body, and thus she united her nous with itself, by means of a spin and by attention, and with divine and eternal prayer… and thus, she constructed a new stratum in the heavens, in other words the noetic (if I may call it so) stillness, in which having attached her nous, she rises above all creatures, and sees the glory of God more perfectly than Moses, and contemplates divine Grace, which is not comprehensible through the senses” .

Hesychia, hesychast, hesychastic:

Silence, stillness. Stilling of the thoughts, but not emptiness whereby the nous may descend into the heart through the Jesus prayer

The way starts with the rejection of the low and earthly by the actual practice, continues with the elevation through the divine virtues to the purification of the spiritual senses

[Theopesta]

"Behold, I have caused your iniquity to pass from you, and I will clothe you with change of raiment."

"So they set a fair turban on his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by."

ZEC iii: 4, 5

[Theopesta]

[www.monachos.net/patristics/basil/epistle2.shtml (http://www.monachos.net/patristics/basil/epistle2.shtml)]

http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_right.gif {separation from the whole world; that is, not bodily separation, but the severance of the soul's sympathy with the body, and to live so without city, home, goods, society, possessions, means of life, business, engagements, human learning, that the heart may readily receive every impress of divine doctrine.}

http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_right.gif {Preparation of heart is the unlearning the prejudices of evil converse.}

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Theopesta dem,

This sounds tremendously like what Our Lord Jesus Christ told the disciples/Apostles, was the cost of discipleship; and the good soil in the parable of the Sower.

I really like that last line!

[Theopesta]

Dear Mr.James A. Anthony
I will recive with all welcome any thing written about this topic
in one christ
theopesta

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Theopesta,

Personal experiences are sometimes a dangerous thing to bare before the public storm of opinion; but then what on earth grows without wind, rain, cold, and heat!

For quite some time now -more than a year- I've been trying to understand four words God spoke into my heart during prayer: I am your heart! I have not been Orthodox long enough, or read sufficiently in patristic works, to know what the Holy Fathers have to say on this subject. Now can I, nor shall I try disecting the sublimities of the nous. One thing which I can say for certain, spiritual life is a whole new ball game. It is sufficient to say then, that all of life emanates from the heart, which is where God looks when looking in our lives for either sin or righteousness. "...cleanse my heart O God and renew a right spirit within me..";"...As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he."; "...from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh."

Does having God as "...my heart."mean then that my heart no longer exists; does Jesus' will cease to exist because both He "...and the Father are one." My heart regretably is still here, in that it's revealed that in attempting to understand and live according to the Truth, war with the passions is a certainty. The struggle is to withstand the time required to undergo the battle for the weapons of our warfare are nor carnal, but of the Spirit, for we are destroying speculations, and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God. It is then that God promises to remove from us "...a heart of stone, and give you a heart of flesh."

However; the heart is not the only organ analogy to be kept in mind! "For the lamp of the body is the eye, if therefore your eye is clear your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is dark...if therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness." We pray often in the Model Prayer, "...Our Father, who art in heaven...", if which is true, then we've not set our hearts on the place where the Father is, but her where we are. "...for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." If therefore Christ Jesus has redeemed me/mankind, then that touches everything under the sun concerning man.

I am so painfully aware of my sin, of how easily I'm distracted, and therefore must see with new eyes, renew my mind, and plough up the fallow ground of my heart, so that the Word of God will have a fertile place to germinate, and produce fruit to the glory of God.

The Holy Apostle Paul wrote the Church at Corinth that "...we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing glory may be of God and not of us." In other words, should I so co-operate with the Holy Spirit of God in humble obedience and practical decisions of daily living, the inward change of "theosis will be clearly seen through this body of porous clay.

What I look at, the emotions I fervently cling to, the thoughts I harbor, the sins I laugh off as character traits, all these things will change when the paradigm(if you will) becomes more than just a thought, when God Himself becomes my heart.
As I said before I do not understand it completely, even after all this time, and therefore ask your forgiveness for any error, and pray that Our Father keep your heart and mind pure.

a sinful and unworthy servant
moses

[Theopesta]

Dear Mr.James A. Anthony
I am grateful to this precious pearls it is strik me deeply
many theanks
pray for me
IN ONE CHRIST, theopesta

[Michael Howard Lake]

Dear Mav Theopesta & Brother Moses,

Isn't it written by one of the saints (by whom I am not sure) that at our core can be found the image of God? Perhaps, Brother Moses, this is why you heard the words, "I am your heart." Orthodoxy does not teach "pantheism," but it does teach that God is in everything, especially in the human heart. Sister Theopesta, isn't this where the Holy Spirit speaks to our human spirits? Please set me right if I have this wrong.

In IHC XPC,

Michael

P.S.: Thanks for answering my email, Sister.

[Theopesta]

the venerable Mr. Michael Howard Lake
I think what u say is what I read in the holy fathers and what the blessed member here belive with it

sometimes the person become under certain circumstances can not make by the body any thing spritual but his hear is burned with the holyiness
pray for me
in one christ, theopesta

[Theopesta]

forgive me his heart is burned not hear

[Theopesta]

celestial companions:
their is a book for His Grace kallistos wear published in france: le royaume interieur
the final chapter about: the calmness of heart and silence in prayer
pray for me

[Patrick Walsh]

Many thanks Leandros and theopesta dem. I will look at Metropolitan Hierotheus' book that you have linked for me. I believe that the course of my life is taking me into monasticism whether I want to or not. It is a difficult time for me.

Leandros, I am very much aware that a dedicated meditation practice should not be conducted alone. I will be heading to the monastery for a short preliminary discernment period in the next month or so. I am merely waiting on my spiritual father to complete the arrangements.

As for Bishop Kallistos Ware, I have many problems with this theology, especially in his books, "The Orhtodox Church," and "The Orthodox Way." I wish I knew more about the so-called "Paris School," so I would be able to comment on them more adequately.

Patrick

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Theopesta,I was reading early this morning through something I printed of the internetThe Byzantine Ascetic and Spiritual Fathers, by Fr. Georges Florovsky, of blessed memory.

www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/fathers_florovsky (http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/fathers_florovsky) is where you can find the article.

The following are lines from the section on Diadochus of Photice

" Diadochus defines the ascetical "ordeal" as the way of love...Love for God is first of all a kind of self-denial and humbling of one's self before God, a kind of forgetting of one's self, non-love for one's self for God's sake...One can, however, rise to this love only gradually. The ascent begins with fear of God. It is fear which cleanses the soul...Genuine love is given by the Holy Spirit, through whose power the soul is purified, is calmed, and finds repose - however, not without man's freedom...even in the soul itself, insofar as it approaches self-consciousness, there is a certain love for peace, and an attraction toward the God of peace. This attraction cannot be steady and constant, however, because of the poverty of the soul....The "natural seeds" of the soul cannot germinate into spiritual fruit...Spiritual love is "a kind of continual kindling of the soul and its clinging to God through the power of the Holy Spirit". Likeness to God is realized in the ordeal, and it is realized by the inspiration of grace, but not without man's freedom, for the seal cannot print on unsoftened wax. The way of "ordeal," especially at first, is terrifying and arduous. This is a path among temptations, the path of struggle...The most important aspect of the "ordeal" is obedience. It is "the door and entrance of love," for it is the direct antidote for the pride of insubordination, the direct antithesis of disobedience. Then one needs abstinence, precisely as a doctoring and tempering of the body...For this to happen, the soul has to be cleansed and tranquil - there can be no continual memory in an agitated or angry soul.

The entire work by Fr. Florovsky printed out as 144 pages, containing a rebuttal of Nygren, and a follow-up of asceticism as found in the New Testament. Although the main topic is the ascetics of monasticism I thought you'd enjoy these words concerning "theosis."

[Theopesta]

a lot of thanks MR.James A. Anthony
truly I am deeply enjoyed with these few words
I can hardly express my gratitude
but the link not work
in one christ, theopesta

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Theopesta,

I suppose that you'll have to access the aforementioned site the old-fashioned way, go there directly!

1. www.holytrinitymission.org (http://www.holytrinitymission.org)
2. click on the language of your choice; Russian, English,
or what I think is Spanish
3. click on textbooks
4. scroll down to the patrology section
5. The article by Fr. Florovsky should be the fifth (5th)
one in that section

I'm sorry about your difficulties accessing the site.

a sinful and unworthy servant
moses

[Theopesta]

thanks a lot I can now find it