The fear of God

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear All,

I am wondering what the fear of God really is. In the Book of Job, if I remember correctly, it is described as "the beginning of wisdom". It seems to me to be fundamental to faith, since it is perhaps linked with the awareness of sin, which prevents entrance into God's Kingdom.

But in what way should we fear God? His nature is love, and He is all-merciful; why then do we need to fear Him? And what differentiates this kind of holy fear from fear of, say, worldly calamities or suffering?

In Christ
Byron

[Herman Blaydoe]

FEAR: Extreme reverence or awe, as towards a Supreme Being. (meaning #3 from dictionary.com)

FEAR has a broader meaning than perhaps you suppose.

[Herman Blaydoe]

I no longer fear God, but I love Him. For love casts out fear. St. Anthony

[leandros]

Dear Byron Jack Gaist,

Fear is either an energy of the nature or an energy of a person. For instance, when I am inside a burning house, I have a natural fear and when I love someone, I fear for loosing my relationship with him.

In any case, fear is a subjective experience, either natural or personal.

In this context we can find "the fear of God" to have several meanings in Church’s life. The (Greek) Orthodox anthropology/theology distinguishes three stages in spiritual life, which are purification, illumination and theosis (divinization). (Of course this stages are not absolutely distinct, and they spread the one over the other)

We must also have in mind that according to Patristic anthropology, man’s nature and personality are not transformed into a new nature or personality, but they are purified in a sense of restoration of realization of factuality, both in self-awareness and in otherness-awareness. In an analogy, it is like having a boy-child who is afraid of a sheep which he finds frightful, but as he is growing he realizes that the sheep is harmless and fun and then he is afraid not to loose its companion.

This "growing in faith" is not presupposing any natural or personal change, just like the growing of a child does not changes his human nature as a soul/body united substance, or else we would have accepted one nature for children and a different one for adults – but we do not.

In this context, in the course of our spiritual life, we gradually change our passions to virtues, not by changing ourselves but by "using" our same natural and personal “functionality” for the proper cause. It is a restoration of our proper position in the Creation just as the proper position of a human in the Creation is not to afraid a harmless sheep. It is a position that is not given to us as a precondition and we have to achieve its actuality, by using a god given natural and personal "functionality" which we call human soul/body nature and their energies.

These three stages in spiritual life refer to the status of the purification of the heart.

In the first stage of purification, “the fear of God” is the result of misconceptions about both of us and of God and it has the meaning of frightful personal approximation with God.

In the second stage of illumination, “the fear of God” is growing into affection, as we reinstate the proper practice of our natural and personal energies, and it has the meaning of personal approximation with God without dislike but with sympathy.

In the final stage theosis (divinization), “the fear of God” is growing into eros (love with no limits),as we achieve the proper practice of our natural and personal energies and it has the meaning of personal approximation with God with intimacy.

Growing from the first stage to the last, we are not rejecting fear as one of our natural and personal attributes. We are not supposed to become absolutely fear-less natures and persons. But in our achievement of authentic self-awareness and genuine otherness-awareness we realize for which purpose/function "fear" was given to us, by God, in the first place: to fear of loosing this authenticity and genuineness.

So “fear” is a very good, God given, attribute of human nature/personhood. What makes it to function as a passion is our disoriented self-determination regarding our proper personal realization of our experiential existence.(like the small boy who was afraid of the sheep)

[Ken McRae]

Matt. 5:3 - "Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."

The virtue known as "the fear of the Lord" is communicated to us in this beatitude as spiritual poverty. Much is comprehended under these words: "poor in spirit". I have included many Scriptures below which enlighten for us the inner meaning of these words, but I cannot comment on each. I leave the reflection to you all, but if I may, I'd like to say a few more words. Take these four Scripture texts, for example, in which the "fear of God" is communicated to us in terms of spiritual contrition or a spiritual brokenness and tenderness before the Lord, and a trembling at His word.

2 Chronicles 34:27
"Because thine heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before me, and didst rend thy clothes, and weep before me; I have even heard thee also, saith the LORD."

Psalms 34:18
"The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit."

Psalms 51:17
"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."

Isaiah 66:2
"For all those things hath mine hand made, and those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word."

Time forbids my delving into these, but suffice it to say that the heart which is broken before the Lord, is tender or receptive to His inner stirrings, and one that trembles at His word. Do the many warnings in Scripture make us "tremble" before the Lord? If not, then our condition is not one of spiritual tenderness but "hardness". Thus, hardness of heart is opposite to the fear of God. The heart that sins easily without pangs of conscience is not one that has been properly schooled in the fear of God.

The heart that has learned a proper fear of God prepares itself to worship Him in spirit and in truth. What do we know personally of being properly prepared to serve God in worship, or to minister unto Him in the Divine Liturgy, for example? How do we spend our Saturday evenings, and early Sunday mornings preparing ourselves to meet Him in the congregation of His people? Let us reflect on this, as it reveals much about whether or not we tremble at His word.

Lastly, the heart that can think of what the lost soul must be enduring in hell this very second, that can think on this without trembling, that is, is one not properly taught in the fear of God. St. Silouan teaches us to keep our mind(s) in hell that we might learn to tremble and walk before God in holy fear, I feel. But I humbly defer to those who know better than I of such deep mysteries.

unworthily,
Theophilus

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Some Scripture Texts Relevant to a Right Understanding of the Fear of the Lord:-

2 Chronicles12:14
"And he did evil, because he prepared not his heart to seek the LORD."

2 Chronicles19:3
"Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God."

2 Chronicles 30:16-20
"16": And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites."

"17": For there were many in the congregation that were not sanctified: therefore the Levites had the charge of the killing of the passovers for every one that was not clean, to sanctify them unto the LORD.

"18": For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one

"19": That prepareth his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.

"20": And the LORD hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.

2 Chronicles 34:27
"Because thine heart was tender, and thou didst humble thyself before God, when thou heardest his words against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, and humbledst thyself before me, and didst rend thy clothes, and weep before me; I have even heard thee also, saith the LORD."

Psalms 2:11
"Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling."

Psalms 19:9
"The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether."

Psalms 34:11
"Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD."

Psalms 34:18
"The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit."

Psalms 51:17
"The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."

Psalms 76:7
"Thou, even thou, art to be feared: and who may stand in thy sight when once thou art angry?"

Psalms 86:11
"Teach me thy way, O LORD; I will walk in thy truth: unite my heart to fear thy name."

Psalms 89:7
"God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him."

Psalms 96:9
"O worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth."

Psalms 103:13 -18
"13": Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him"
"14": For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we are dust.

"15": As for man, his days are as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.

"16": For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.
"17": But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;

"18": To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

Psalms 111:10
"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever."

Psalms 112:1
"Praise ye the LORD. Blessed is the man that feareth the LORD, that delighteth greatly in his commandments."

Psalms 119:63
"I am a companion of all them that fear thee, and of them that keep thy precepts."

Psalms 119:71

"It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes"

Psalms 119:120
"My flesh trembleth for fear of thee; and I am afraid of thy judgments."

Psalms 119:148
"Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word.

Psalms 138:2
"I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name."

Psalms 147:11
"The LORD taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy."

Isaiah 66:2
"For all those things hath mine hand made, and those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word."

[Antonios]

Thank you Theophilus for all those quotes from Scripture. They truly express what the depth of meaning the word 'fear' has in regards to how we should stand before God.

[nurse-aid]

you said it in the first pharagraph leandros....

FEAR OF GOD IS THE FEAR OF LOOSIN UNITY WITH SOMEONE WE LOVE!!! GRATEST FEAR...

at list for me...from my expirience...becuse IF you love someone as yourself...then to loose it means to die...not exist...or to kill yourself, by loosing it...becuse someone you really love is your own part, or you yourself...so wonder how painfull to stubed yourself, not even talking about being in hell for that...

so this is FEAR of GOD...to be cast away from HIM!

[nurse-aid]

Prrgnant women hit by the car...child will not live...becuse it is ONE...pregnat women dowble carefull at that time of her life...fear...fear to lose it...

HOW MUCH MORE...i cannot expain how much more...like if it is air which you breath...i wrote long sgo...don't remeber now...like an air...when you cannot li8ve withput...how scary to have not eneoght...even...how scary that feeling...comimg to death...and if it is cut then this is death...

so that fear is vital sing, which remind you thast you cannot live without...so fear and love, because you cannot hate yourself and killed yourself by cutting that oxydent to yourself...so if we do...we become sudusidal...

[nurse-aid]

from my expirience...that fear is fear do not do as you asked....what inside you telling you: DO IT! it is inside that little seed, our first...as St.Seraphim said, first new born deep inside thought or knowing what is righ...but then hard work will come and then we try to listen to the secong though,...which is ours...fallen...one...but if we are stubbonly push what you heard first, we are obidient...and that is exacctly fear of GOD and Love at hte saome time...HE IS OBIDIENCE/ HUMILITY /LOVE!

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear All,

Thank you for your responses. It seems to me from what has been said so far that the fear of God is like sensitivity to the truth of Holy Scripture, and to the Truth present before us all the time in our lives. If one's heart is hardened, sin is not feared, nor is the absence of God felt. Yet paradoxically, the more pliant and contrite we are, the more sin and the loss of God are feared.

Which makes me wonder: when we talk about the fear of God, are we in fact talking about the fear of His absence or our own departure from Him? Or are we at the same time talking about reverent awe before His incomprehensible mystery?

If our fear of God changes into eros during our spiritual development as has been suggested, a kind of wonder seems to be at hand. But its early for me to say, because I haven't even learned to fear Him like a child yet, and depend on His patient mercy for putting up with me.

In Christ
Byron

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

FEAR OF GOD IS THE FEAR OF LOOSIN UNITY WITH SOMEONE WE LOVE!!! GRATEST FEAR...

Love was also referred to at the beginning of this thread. But our love is a response to the love of God for us. It is this love we should fear to offend or lose.
The following is from Homily Twelve on John 14:22-26 of Archbishop Philaret (Gumilevsky) of Chernigov (1805-66) on the Passion of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Love for Christ Jesus means so much before the Heavenly Father that He rewards this love with His own love. The Heavenly Father also loves all sinners, calling them to repentance. But the love which is conferred upon those who sincerely love the Lord Jesus is a preeminent love. This is how the Lord Himself speaks to His disciples about this: The Father Himself loveth you, because ye have loved Me, and have believed that I came out from God (John 16:27). And this is still not the fulness of God's mercy. 'We will come unto him, and make our abode with him (John 14:23), says the Lord to those who love Him.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[leandros]

Father Raphael I ask for your blessing,

I understand that you are right, as you are commenting “love” and “fear”.

I have posted and answered in my earlier post,(I understand nurse-aid also to have done in the same fashion) to the original question of “fear of God” which I comprehend not as a question about the energy of “fear” itself but about our subjective personal energy towards God, which is a question about our relationship with Him.

For that, I quote the phrase “the fear of God” implying that I refer to the relation itself as it’s growing from partition into approximation.

My point was that, during this course of spiritual restoration, the natural human attributes are neither perishing nor are they transformed themselves into self-alien energies but they are remain themselves unalterable. The “fear” remains “fear”, the “love” stands “love” and so forth.

What is “growing” in respect of taking its proper place it’s our personal energy in our relation with God. Gradually, (or even suddenly) fear faints and love takes over. Fear, then, finds its proper place of not “loosing this loving relationship” as you wisely comment.

I have tried to say the same thing as you have said, by referring to the fear of “loosing this authenticity and genuineness” that we finally found in our approximation with God.

Of course I did not implied that "fear" and "love" are the same aspects of the same energy. (Of course they are not like a coin with two sides). They are two distinct energies. I thank you for pin-pointing this ommision in my original post and for your completion.

Thank you for wise comments and for the Patristic reference.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Leandros,

Please be assured that I was not trying to correct anything missing from your comments but only spontaneously adding to a good point you & the nurse-aid had made.

Sometimes monachos is like watching a stream move- point adding to point.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Petros L.]

Jesus Himself also said not to fear someone who can physically harm you, but to fear The One Who has the power to cast you into hell. It is not fear of God Himself, but of his power. If you fear the power of God you will obey His commandements, and live a better Christian life.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Luke 12:4-5 "I tell you, my friends, do not fear those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear him!"

Fear him who, after he has killed. Does God kill? What does this verse mean?

I guess a question that follows on from this is one about th relationship of love, as Fr Raphael and others have described it, and fear: when we love another person, we do not fear them. We may fear losing them, but we do not think they can cast us into hell or kill us or something like that; if we did, then surely we wouldn't trust or love them really. In other words, I can understand how we need to grow in love and fear losing that love or offending it, but I am having difficulty understanding what love has to do with the fear of an awe-ful power. For the sake of the argument, I am daring to ask: how can we love someone to whom we are so unequally yoked?

In all humility and bewilderment

Byron

[leandros]

Friend Byron,

I think there is a misunderstanding here.

In the phrase “Fear him who, after he has killed”, 'him' is NOT God.

Let’s see the respective passage, from the bible (Luke 12:1-12) (Let me put some blue comments in between, to help you understand):

Meanwhile, when a crowd of many thousands had gathered, so that they were trampling on one another, Jesus began to speak first to his disciples, saying: "Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. What you have said in the dark will be heard in the daylight, and what you have whispered in the ear in the inner rooms will be proclaimed from the roofs.
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. (These are the persecutors of faith, which are going to hunt you down, in case you keep the faith and you proclaim the original “heard word” that you had the privilege to hear “in the inner rooms” as trustworthy disciples. Do not afraid of them as they do not posses the power to harm nothing more than your body-which you will receive back at the time of the Resurrection of dead). But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. (This is the behavior of Pharisee, who is not preaching the law of God to the people, but as a hypocrite, proclaims his own doctrines as God’s preaching. His privilege to know God’s word “in the inner room” of Jewish tradition is not used for the advantage of many, but exclusively for his own benefit. This infection from his yeast has the power, after your death, to drive your soul into hell. Beware of such an infected yeast that will destroy the barm of faith) Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. Indeed, the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. (Do not have fear of the world; trust yourselves in providence of God)

"I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.

"When you are brought before synagogues, rulers and authorities do not worry about how you will defend yourselves or what you will say, for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say."

So, the whole passage is about protecting the disciples, who were in the danger of going through ambition for the secular power that Pharisees had, because of “a crowd of many thousands had gathered”, that was a real temptation for them.

He advises them: Beware of the ambition of using the faith, that I have teach you privately, for your own benefit by using such “a great crowd of many thousands”, like Pharisees do, which (ambition) has the power to drive your souls to hell, after your death, while the authentic preaching is neither preventing your body from getting killed, but it will save your souls.

I hope this will help us understand that God NEVER kills.

[Ken McRae]

St. Luke 12:4-5

"And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of them that kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him."

It seems to me, in my humble opinion, that the key to understanding verses 4-5 is found in the passage of verses 8-12:-

8: Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
9: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
10: And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
11: And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:
12: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.

In this passage, Christ warns the disciples to stand firm in the face of martyrdom, for it makes no sense to deny Christ to save the body, if that denial results in the loss of the soul; or being sent to hell, as indicated in verse 5. That God is the one who has the power to cast into hell is again intimated in verses 20 and 46:-

vs. 20 - "But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?"

vs. 46 - "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers."

The problem or question that then arises is this: In which sense can it be said that God kills the body, or is responsible for its death? The clue to this is found in these words of Christ, in St. John's Gospel, verses 10-11:-

10: Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
11: Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Now in these verses, Jesus clearly attributes all power to His Father in heaven, and says that neither Judas had the power to betray, nor Pilate the power to crucify, nor the soldiers power to pierce his hands and feet, nor the demons power to take the souls of men into hell, lest they all receive it of His Father in heaven. He alone holds in His almighty hand the power of life and death. It's in this sense that God can be said to "kill": that is, by granting our enemies power over us, as in Job's classic case, though satan, strictly speaking, had not the power to take Job's life.

Returning now to Luke 12, we can see that this is the same lesson that Jesus teaches in verses 6-7, that even the sparrows of the air do not die without God's (fore)knowledge and infinite power permitting it to occur. In this, it is implied that God rules over the time and circumstances of our death as much as over a sparrow's death; and that we ought to be entirely resigned or surrendered to God's will for us, even if it be that of martyrdom, alluded to in verses 8-12, as a result of our refusal to deny Christ before men.

Lastly, that Jesus is alluding to God in verse 5 seems to be clear from verse 20 where God is shown to take a man's life, as intimated in the words, "this night thy soul shall be required of thee;" and in verse 46 where it says that God "will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." Now, "cutting asunder" seems to imply, perhaps, the death of the body, whereas the appointment among unbelievers seems to imply sending the man to his just reward in hell, as intimated in verse 5.

(Message edited by theophilus on 14 June, 2005)

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Theophilus wrote:


Now in these verses, Jesus clearly attributes all power to His Father in heaven, and says that neither Judas had the power to betray, nor Pilate the power to crucify, nor the soldiers power to pierce his hands and feet, nor the demons power to take the souls of men into hell, lest they all receive it of His Father in heaven. It's only in this sense that God can be said to "kill": that is, by granting our enemies power over us, as in Job's classic case.

Returning now to Luke 12, we can see that this is the same lesson that Jesus teaches in verses 6-7, that even the sparrows of the air do not die without God's knowledge and power permitting it to occur. In this, it is implied that God rules over the time and circumstances of our death as much as over a sparrow's death; and that we ought to be entirely resigned or surrendered to God's will for us, even if it be that of martyrdom, alluded to in verses 8-12, as a result of our refusal to deny Christ before men.

Thank you for clarifying this point very well, Theophilus. It seems to me what you write offers a deeper dimension to Leandros' correct observation that God is not - directly - responsible for killing. All killing (and everything else that happens), however, surely (?) takes place by His permission or under His toleration, even if it is humans by their own free will who carry it out.

Leandros, I am not sure that the "yeast" you refer to is so much the teaching of the Pharisees itself, as it is the hypocrisy that a number of Pharisees displayed. Jesus didn't (doesn't) like hypocrisy in anyone. Either way, it would not be the Pharisees who have the power to cast into hell, but God who warns us here against the consequences of our own sin.

Still, whatever the details (and they are important) of the interpretation of the verse, I will repeat my original question, which I feel has not been addressed:


I am having difficulty understanding what love has to do with the fear of an awe-ful power. For the sake of the argument, I am daring to ask: how can we love someone to whom we are so unequally yoked?

In Christ,
Byron

[leandros]

I am having difficulty understanding what love has to do with the fear of an awe-ful power. For the sake of the argument, I am daring to ask: how can we love someone to whom we are so unequally yoked?

Friends,

Let me ask you a personal question: Do you feel that Christ as He stands on the Cross is an “awe-ful power” to whom your are “so unequally yoked” ?

For me, this is not the case. So I have a problem to understand who is this person (?) that you refer to. Is he a real person ?

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Leandros,

You are quite right. Christ's humility in His incarnation and His voluntary suffering are signs of God's condescending love for us and His willingness to drink the sorrows of human existence to its dregs. The only possible response is our own worship of the God Who suffered and died for us, and rose again on the third day.

I wasn't asking the above question out of any doubt of His profound love for us, only out of the awareness of the weakness of my own response to Him. I sometimes wonder how Divine Love can be responded to by a weak human like myself; I guess that's a better way of phrasing my original question.

Thanks for your input.

In Christ,
Byron

[leandros]

Brother Byron,

I thing that you have found the fountain of cool fire which St Symeon the new theologian, present in his essay Catechesis and Thanksgiving:

“The man who seeks the best of all virtues, he finds it. It is more proper to say that it’s the virtue itself that is realized and finds the insistent seeker. Even in the case, that he has a heart more hard than copper, or iron, or diamond, the realization of virtue tempers it (the heart) making it softer than beeswax.

Because, this is fire from God, that breaks mountains and rocks, and makes everything sleek and transforms everything into heavens and denatures the souls that accept it. In the middle of those, surfaces a fountainhead, which fountains water of life, eternally jumping out, and irrigates them, plenty, and it is consumed by them. Just like, it is collapsing from a reservoir both on those near and on those far away and it overflows those souls that accept the word. At first, it washes of smudge, of those who are partaking in it, then co-washes passions and resolves them, by detaching them as if they were the skin of wounds; I mean foxiness, envy, vanity, and all those things that they entail. And it does more than this, like a flame that by propagating over them in a short time, it burns them afterwards for many hours like prickles. In doing this, first, inspires the desire for perfect freedom and purification and then, for the rest of goods that God has prepared for those who loved Him.

All these things are achieved by the divine fire of devoutness with tears, or it is better to say through tears. Without tears, like we said, none of those has benn done or will be done, neither to ourselves nor to any others. Neither can anybody has proved from the divine Scriptures, that without tears and devoutness, someone has became saint, or that he received the Holy Spirit, or that he has seen God, or that he felt God remaining inside him, or that God became inhabitant in his heart, without having precede repentance and devoutness and without having tears, coming like from an inexhaustible source. Tears deluging means also that, the home of soul is washed, and that the flamed soul, from the inapproachable fire, has been quenched and has been refreshed.

So, those who say that, it is not possible for them to mourn and to cry each day and night, they present themselves naked of every virtue. Because, if our fathers, the saints, on the contrary, ruled by saying “He, who wants to cut of passions, by mourn cuts them off and he, who wants to obtain virtues, by mourn he acquires them”, it is clear that the non-each-day-mourner neither cuts off his passion nor he achieves virtues, even if, as it is believed to be adequate, he wants to practice all other ways.”

I also attach the original text of St Symeon in greek.

[nurse-aid]

Flesh what is feels, the soul is know,
the heart is crying, mind is still,
but Will unknown…
And every parts is single will,
until it’s the one, until were is no will!
Until my will become that silent YES,
what ever what is comes,
I’ll take it as my only chance!
To breath HIS love, to drink HIS Will,
partake HIS patience and to feel HIS breeze!
To walk like flying, singing praise,
to live like dying, but dying into endless days!
Those days of Feast, were is not night,
were is the Mighty Light, were is no cold
and we are all in that Eternal endless flight!

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear brother Leandros,

Thank you for your kind words and the beautiful passage from St Symeon. Alas, the fire of my own worldly passions is one I sense in my heart much more frequently than the fountain of cool fire the saint is referring to. I'm as puzzled by tears of repentance as I am by the fear of God - perhaps they are the same thing. To my worldly mind it seems God is weak, and the flesh is strong. I can't even imagine how a person may come to such a state that he or she can see the power of our Lord, and beg His forgiveness and plead for His acceptance.

Thanks again.

Struggling against myself in Christ,

Byron

[nurse-aid]

I’m the servant of my Lord, according to my will!
Let me arise; open my eyes, my heart to YOU, Your Will!
Breathe unto me, the empty one…Your strength, Your peace and love!
I’m the servant of my Lord! Please, never use Your wrath!
Forgive me all my deeds, my thoughts, my weakness and mistakes…
Transform my little, scary soul, transform by Love, by Grace!
I’m the servant of my Lord! He is my God, my Guide!
Open for me Your Arms of Peace, and hide me in that harbor of Your Love!

[leandros]

I can't even imagine how a person may come to such a state that he or she can see the power of our Lord, and beg His forgiveness and plead for His acceptance

Dear Byron Jack Gaist,

I understand your point. Let me focus through a different viewpoint.

As I have said already, "fear" is a subjective experiential realization, either natural or personal.

But there is also the fear of "non-real".

Then, "fear" becomes a subjectibe experience that has no corresponding subject of an existential reality. Fear becomes "our conception". It is no longer fear, but a noetic/psycho pathology of fear. It's a self-existent fear.

S. John Damascene says that there two type of conceptions(epinoia) (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf205.viii.ii.i.html):

“It (epinoia) is of two sorts. The first is the faculty which analyses and elucidates the view of things undissected and in the gross (oloscheros): whereby a simple phenomenon becomes complex speculatively: for instance, man becomes a compound of soul and body.

The second, by a union of perception and fancy, produces fictions out of realities, i.e. divides wholes into parts, and combines those parts, selected arbitrarily, into new wholes; e.g. Centaurs, Sirens.”

Analysis (scientific) would describe the one; fancy (fantasy), the other."

Imagination will never free us from our fears because fantasy fears consist of non-reality. It's like fighting with shadows, they 'll always defeat us.

[nurse-aid]

I learn, I see, I cry, but I’m not in agony…
Why, just because it is not new,
fall after thinking of myself so clean, so new!
Me who is old and only start to fly,
just few a little jumps up to the sky!
But this is height for me and I’m so full of pride!
I’m flying far away, I think, but it is lie…
And this is how bird knows how to fly…
Jump from the rock, few inches only, and then die!
Die in the dream of flying good, like other ones,
long distance and for food!
Fly to the south, fly so long, above the earth,
Up in the air, freely moving wings to float…
And bird is watched, and bird is learn, one after one mistake,
It is her practice time to being ready to unfold…
Ability to fly, reality of dream, the source of all success,
and purpose of that will!
To fly! To fly! That’s only what bird want!
So let start now jump from rock, without doubts!

[nurse-aid]

Drink… give me drink, I’ll die from hit,
from not be able crawl, to able have it and to live…
Its near I can feel that taste…that fresh and tasty water,
song of that fountain and resting place…
And I’m so thirsty, hungry and I’m lost, I can’t except that I’m
dying or its worst…
The ways are all come to that place, that living river of HIS taste…
Like animals, who comes to drink, all kinds at the same time,
they come for time of fearless feast…
They drink until they full, until they fine, so big and small,
they are all Thine!
They have no choice, no the other way to live…
Drink, drink and drink next to the enemy who may them kill…
OOHHH let us come, and let us try…don’t be afraid, and asking why?
Drink and to keep that moment of the silent peaceful time,
when we are all together come to drink and cry: YES, HE IS MINE!