Orthodox spirituality

[Reb. Deiniol Ben Yaakov]

Dear Friends in Christ,

I just thought I'd ask all of your opinions on something.

The True Spiritual Life

The True Spiritual life is based on striving for the heavenly. We know this through many scriptural sources. Firstly, Jesus says: "Take up the cross and follow me." This means that in order to follow His commandments, and in order to love Him with a sincere, we must let go of everything earthly; the earthly passions. St.Seraphim of Sarov, in the Little Russian Philokalia also says that we must let go of everything on earth and strive for heaven.

I have decided to write this however, because I am slightly lost. In today's society as a student I have been pushed into getting a career, and that has been the focus point of my entire life pretty much until now. I wondered however, should I let go of all this, and all the "money" that I can earn for Christ? Should EVERYONE be expected to live the lifestyle that is described by the Philokalia in all of the volumes? St.Mekarios the Great also says things like this, that in order to love Christ sincerely, every Orthodox Christian must let go of his possessions. Should I lead the monastic life? Is it my duty? Or should I be like most Orthodox Christian in the world and get a secular occupation?

Yours in Christ Humbly,
The servant of G-d Deiniol

The Orthodox Alive ministry website. (http://www.orthodox.filetap.com)
The Antiochian Orthodox Deanery in the UK. (http://www.antiochian-orthodox.co.uk)

[Moses Anthony]

Deiniol,

I will try to be brief. From the times of the Old Covenant until now, every servant of God has had an occupation, be it farming, tentmaking, fishing, shepherds or Kings. Some of them were housewives! When I was chaffing at the apparent lack of usefulness for artists among the Southern Baptists, I came across this from Exodus (while not paying attention to the Sunday School teacher) Ex.31:1-6, especially the last part of verse 6. In Paulinian terminology, every part of the body has a necessary function without which the body would not function properly.

EVERYONE, repeat, EVERYONE IS expected to live the ascetic life as fully as they can, in the area where they have been placed , aided by the mercy and grace of God. This has been explored on another thread, by several in this discussion community.

The history of monasticism is peppered by those whose personal interpretation of forsaking worldly possessions, brought a much needed flavor of piety to the Church community. As Paul wrote, one has the gift to be celibate, another gets married. Again check the archived messages to (as a commercial says) read more about it.

Regardless of whether or not one has a secular occupation, our mandate is clear, "...let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father in heaven".

the unworthy servant

[David Galloway]

That was a very good summary James. The only thing I would add is that when this question comes up(as it often does in my life) it is good to read and reflect upon the parable of the Talents. We all have God-given abilities and must use these as we can to glorify God. There are many people out there who due to a variety of reasons cannot pursue life as a tonsured monastic. As James said, EVERYONE IS expected to live the ascetic life as fully as they can, in the area where they have been placed, aided by the mercy and grace of God.

I would reccomend something similar to what Fr. Alexander Schmemann notes in his recently published journal. That if you desire a monastic life, first make your worldly life more ascetic. At your job, pray for those you work with and encounter in the course of your day. Live modestly and donate all excess funds to the church, local charities, or to the poor directly. Attend the services of your parish diligently and help with whatever is needed. Add to this as strict a prayer rule as you can keep consistently. If after a period of time(Fr. Alexander reccomends 10 years but I see that as being excessive I would say six months to two years depending on the advice of your spiritual father) and if you are well with this discipline then consider joining a monastery. I would also spend time(a week or two) at a few monasteries so that you gain a feel for the daily life of a monk. It is a hard labor, and you would be well advised to know what you are getting yourself into before you make a commitment.

Pray always and hope that God will lead you to where you need to be. I feel a bit of a hypocrit in this advice(Physician, heal thyself), but hopefully you will do better with it than I am currently.

[Matei Valentin Cosmin]

If you want to go in heaven you must do what God wants from you and = you can know what God wants from you from a good father of our times.

[Andonis Saridopoulos]

my question is, why does God have such a strong presence in certain people's lives, and yet others appear to be satisfied without him. i know in my life god has had a very prominent presence, and since my discovery of the orthodox faith, my relationship with him becomes more intense daily. yet i find others, despite enthusiastic attempts to steer them towards god, it is in vain. this poses the question, do some people have a natural propensity for God, determined pretty much from birth? how does God choose whom he will enlighten and to what degree? i have often drawn the conclusion that those whom do not see and recognise god do so not through a fault of their own, but due to they're inability to see which maybe even beyond their control. any thoughts?...

[Margaret Jackson-Roberts]

From my own reflection it seems that a awareness of the numinous requires maintenance of a still small space within. As this could be taken to imply passivity, and our world is full of noise, some people -and perhaps the majority - may find the stillness to be an empty and frightening void that requires to be filled somehow (anyhow). Or maybe it is that genuine spiritual hunger can be satisfied in different ways, including contemplation of nature, doing a task well, or finding fulfilment in a rewarding hobby that engages the deepest self. For sure, though, ours is not a contemplative age, and I suspect that many of us in the west may have been thoroughly alienated from a proper understanding of what God is, not least by the sheer dullness of what is on offer in many churches as well as the more pressing demands of earning a living, suporting a family, and cultural materialism.

[Margaret Jackson-Roberts]

Apropos Deiniol's enquiry about relinquishing one's possessions, I had understood from my studies of western monastic traditions and relevant textual references that it is attachment to worldly goods rather than the mere fact of possession that determines the type and degree of ascesis that can be managed. It is, as I know well, perfectly possible to live a celibate, quasi-monastic life in the world, without either the support or the constraints of a community, and this may be the preferable option in case of doubt about the appropriateness of full claustration.

[Richard McBride]

" how does God choose whom he will enlighten and to what degree?"

Mat 20:15
Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me?

[Richard McBride]

Greetings, Margaret;

What sort of hobby did you have in mind?

I ask because I also wonder what you mean by "passivity" and "contemplation of nature".

Each of these offer the means of great error for a Christian. But a Christian would agree with you that "contemplation" is a necessary habit, if one is to attain and retain control over the passions.

The way it is done is most important, and for a Christian that will not come from merely concentrating on one's center (considering the outward size of my own gee, that could be a mixed blessing).

For starters, What do you believe comes from contemplating nature?

richard mcb

[Owen Jones]

I have good friends who do a lot of fishing. I'd sooner see them fishing than meddling in other people's business, or charging around constantly trying to fix the world that God made. Virtually anything that quells the spirit toward activism is a good thing, even if not specifically churchy. But the Fathers say that one cannot start with God. We begin by meditating on the things that He has made.

[Andonis Saridopoulos]

another thing i'm finding, very prevalant in my relationship with my girlfreind, is that it feels as if she's stunting my spiritual growth. mainly because, she hasn't evolved in the church as much as i have and it often feels she is too atatched to wordly things, and she can't understand my dispassion. i'm almost afraid to tell her that the reason why i am dispassionate is because all human works are so often riddled with vanity, envy, pettiness that it makes them seem futile. that is why the latest make of a car, the neighbours latest holiday, the new house being built down the street, does not stike in me a feeling of awe and amazement. the only thing that can stike these feelings in me is to grow in the knowledge of God, even if it means living in a cave with bread and water.

this makes me wonder whether we should even be together, or whether i should endeavour to be with someone whom is more spiritually evolved. or is this again a sign of my selfishness and vanity? may God forgive me...

[Moses Anthony]

Dear Andonis,
I think that the first part of my post today on another thread (sin & confession), answers the question you posed today.

the unworthy servant

[Moses Anthony]

"How does God chose whom He will enlighten?" The best answer to this is Acts 10:1-34. The way I would say it is; you move towards God and you'll meet him coming towards you.

Everything we have is as a result of the mercy and grace of God, of which we are required to be a good steward. Ananias and Sapphira had control of their property, and could have kept some of the money after they sold it. They received judgement instead of grace beause they lied about what they received from the sale of their property.

the unworthy servant

[Richard McBride]

"Virtually anything that quells the spirit toward activism is a good thing, even if not specifically churchy"

This is what many Beats on Grant Street used to say; they had a variety of ways for quelling the spirit. None of it was any good.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
"We begin by meditating on the things that He has made."

The Pantheists do/did a lot of that; it took Emerson to Asia; he could just as well have stopped in California; either way, he never seemed to find what he was seeking;
God's creation is all that we know of His work, tis true; but why nature any more than the town?
God did seem to have a liking for cowboys and ground beaters; herding and dancing; its not a bad way to come to grips with yourself; maybe God does enter at that point.

richard mcb

[Richard McBride]

Blessed of the Lord, Andonis:

How wonderful are your new experiences with the Holy Spirit!

I could be envious of such an extraordinary and beautiful relationship as you have told to us -- but I shall be careful not to let real envy intrude.
And I understand your great desire to speak of this new relationship. That is why we remain close to the brothers and sisters of the Church. They understand these things, and usually some of them will be much more help than can we.

Perhaps, you may not be prepared for other “downers” which inevitably must come upon you -- but after reinstituting your closeness to God, after re-affirming this, the most important of purposes which God has for you (that is, to adore Himself) -- after such a high as that, by comparison all else must be something lower. So, don’t let the “downers” sneak up on you, catch you unaware.

I don’t know if this is your first experience with Theosis; but do be prepared for tough times ahead. Do not let complexities and rebuffs discourage you, especially after the beautiful grace offered to you. It is normal for doubts to set in because the enemy will be especially determined to knock you off your pedestal, and his wicked ability to find cracks in your armour is vast. You have seen it in the past, but now it will very likely be much worse than you have seen before.

I presume you read the Fathers constantly. Do not let up now! Find the passages which seem to speak to any problems you are having; read them and pray. If you remain on the track which you have started, you will have to take much more seriously than do the rest of us, all the admonitions for seeking Perfection and the Pure Heart. God has taken you early, before you defile yourself beyond the limits of no return. And that is as amazing as it seems wonderful to us. But you cannot imagine the exertion which staying on this track will require of you. And that is just as well.

You are not inclined to think badly of anyone now, so remember it and be determined never to allow criticism to enter your mind. Nothing will happen to you of which God is unaware, and therefore nothing is without its purpose. But I’m sure you know all this already. I only mention it to reinforce your focus so that you never suffer dejection. (That is a particularly nasty sin.)

If you don’t already pray to one of them, you might start up a relationship with Saint Seraphim of Sarov, or Saint Ephraim the Syrian, praying to them for spiritual focus, consolation when you suffer, and compunction when you have stumbled.

And please pray for us, Andonis.

richard mcbride

[Andonis Saridopoulos]

dear Richard

thank you kindly for your warm words. i draw a great deal of consolation and appeasement from them. judging by the way you post, it seems to me that you indeed have had numerous experiences with theosis, and have reached a high level of deification.

i realise that although triumphant once again in my spiritual afflictions, i acknowledge God's mercy and kindness. you are right, he once again saved me before the point of no return. and i am indebted eternally. i appreciate you reminding me of this, for the more one ascends the divine ladder, the greater that will be the admonitions from evil spirits. i will continue to be diligent in my reading of the fathers and the scriptures, as my longing for more growth in God intensifies daily.

and i will pray for all of you, to be filled with God's grace and blessings at all times, for he trully is a caring, loving God whom yeans for not even one of his lambs to stray from his flock.

Glory be to God, now and forever...