Before and after the flood

[Baroness]

As I was just reading through Genesis, I noticed how God gave Adam and Eve basically fruit and veges etc. to eat for their sustenance. How come then after Noah and the flood etc., God tells Noah and his family that every thing moving and is alive will now be food for them, as it was with the green plants. Why the sudden change? What does the Church say about this and why did God change the order of things after the flood.

Does anyone know?
Thanks.

[Irene]

In Genesis 6:10-- It says "And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth"

In Genesis Chapter 9 -- it seems to say that Noah got drunk, fell asleep naked and was seen by his son, Ham, and when he found out that Ham had seen him like this he cursed Ham's son Canaan.......


Genesis 9:24 "And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.

Genesis 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren."

Somewhere in all the lists of Sons of Noah's sons it seems that Ham's descendants are Canaanites and the people who build the Tower of Babel and the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, and others that I don't recognise.


".Gen 10:18....and afterward were the families of the Canaanites spread abroad.
Gen 10:19 And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon, as thou comest to Gerar, unto Gaza; as thou goest, unto Sodom, and Gomorrah, and Admah, and Zeboim, even unto Lasha."

It also appears that from the descendants of Ham came a couple of very bad events in the Bible ... The Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorah ... would that have anything to do with the Curse on Ham's son?

Of Japheth Noah says.....


Gen 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

The Bible says Japheth will be “enlarged” and Canaan will be his servant......

Then after listing Japheths sons and grandsons it says .......


Gen 10:5 "By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations."


It mentions the Gentiles in conjunction with Japheth. Is the Bible saying the Gentiles came from Japheth's line? If all the people that weren't on the Arc died then the Gentiles had to come from the line of one of the son's of Noah.

Then the Sons of Shem are listed and I don't recognise any of them, it seems Noah Blesses Shem and makes the sons of Canaan the servants of Shem's descendants too.

What sort of an IQ do you need to read the Old Testament because I am having a lot of trouble understanding what it is saying here. I have read the "Truth and Metaphor" (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1493&highlight=old+testament) thread and realise I have to be careful about taking it all too literally, but still if anyone ever understands what all this is about I'll be glad to learn...Irene

[Kris]

It mentions the Gentiles in conjunction with Japheth. Is the Bible saying the Gentiles came from Japheth's line? If all the people that weren't on the Arc died then the Gentiles had to come from the line of one of the son's of Noah.


Hi,

I'm not sure about the Ham stuff, so I'll limit my response to this. Gentiles are basically non-Jews. The Jewish people were the sons of Abraham through Isaac and Jacob (Israel); everyone else were Gentiles.

So at the time of Noah, there would have been no Jew vs. Gentile distinction. Every single one of Noah's sons would have been the fathers of Gentiles. Including Shem, the father of the Jewish people, since he is also the father of other non-Jewish Semitic peoples - such as the Arabs.

Or have I missed the point completely?

In XC,
Kris

[Kris]

As I was just reading through Genesis, I noticed how God gave Adam and Eve basically fruit and veges etc. to eat for their sustenance. How come then after Noah and the flood etc., God tells Noah and his family that every thing moving and is alive will now be food for them, as it was with the green plants. Why the sudden change? What does the Church say about this and why did God change the order of things after the flood.

Does anyone know?
Thanks.

Hi,

I do know a few of the Fathers comment on this issue in quite some detail. Problem is I can't remember what they said :-(

I think the main reason is related to the fall of man, and the weakness that came about as a result of this. God allowed man to eat meat because of his weakness.

I have also heard it said that, because the Flood would have destroyed most plant life, man was forced by circumstance to utilise a wider food source - i.e. animals.

The reason monastics abstain from meats has to do with a return to the pre-Flood state of affairs, since monastic life is to imitate Paradise.

In XC,
Kris

[Vasiliki D.]

It does not say in the Old Testament scripture that people prior to Noah did not eat meat .. infact, through simple logic we can deduce that from Noah through to Noah people were eating meat ...

I would like to work backwards with my logic from Noah back to Adam.

#1. In the Greek context, one of the main points we understand about the generation of people prior to the flood is that they were quite "carnal" - extremally violent and aggressive.

#2. "Carnal" instincts are aggrivated or exaggerated by the consumption of meat - specifically uncooked meat which keeps the blood - we have reference by God that blood was not to be consumed (is this random or has this to do with the biological changes that occur with the consumption of blood by a human ...

#3. Cain "murders" his brother Seth - this is the first murder. How does Cain "murder" Seth if the "concept" of how to do this is not known? The logical deduction is that Cain had seen someone murdering something and knew that the consequence is physical death - the only possible "murder" Cain could have witnessed is either Adam or Eve killing an animal to use the meat. The next question is .. how would they have known to do that?

Food for thought ... I hope I have a chance to elaborate should others care to comment.

[Herman Blaydoe]

It does not say in the Old Testament scripture that people prior to Noah did not eat meat .. infact, through simple logic we can deduce that from Noah through to Noah people were eating meat ...

I would like to work backwards with my logic from Noah back to Adam.

#1. In the Greek context, one of the main points we understand about the generation of people prior to the flood is that they were quite "carnal" - extremally violent and aggressive.

#2. "Carnal" instincts are aggrivated or exaggerated by the consumption of meat - specifically uncooked meat which keeps the blood - we have reference by God that blood was not to be consumed (is this random or has this to do with the biological changes that occur with the consumption of blood by a human ...

#3. Cain "murders" his brother Seth - this is the first murder. How does Cain "murder" Seth if the "concept" of how to do this is not known? The logical deduction is that Cain had seen someone murdering something and knew that the consequence is physical death - the only possible "murder" Cain could have witnessed is either Adam or Eve killing an animal to use the meat. The next question is .. how would they have known to do that?

Food for thought ... I hope I have a chance to elaborate should others care to comment.

I think, in line with this, it is worth mentioning that Abel was a shepherd. His sacrifice was of a sheep and this found favor with God, inciting the jealously of his brother Cain. I suppose they only used the wool for clothing, but I have to wonder where Abel got the idea that killing a sheep would be pleasing to God and if Abel enjoyed lamb and mutton.

Herman the wondering Pooh