'Nulla salvatio extra Ecclesiam'

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear all,

Recent postings regarding marriage outside the Orthodox Church prompt me to wonder again about the fate of those who, for diverse reasons, find themselves outside the Church: either because their parents belong to another denomination or a different faith community, or through lack of religious observance in their family or erroneous choices in their own life. Others have indicated that God is the lover of mankind, and desires that all be saved; even that the human soul is by nature Christian (Tertullian? Irenaeus? Ignatius? I can't remember), or as the prayer goes, that "Christ the True Light enlighteneth every soul that cometh into the world".

Still, what do we say to someone who is a perfectly decent human being who just happens to come from a different cultural background, and feels he is being true to himself and his ancestors in being e.g. a Hindu? Is it a simple case of "your religion is wrong, mine is right"? And what do we say to someone who we see clearly is a good, even a loving person, but is an atheist? Is it simply "the good you do is no good because it's not done in the name of Christianity?"

In Christ
Byron

[Alec Lowly]

Byron writes:

"Still, what do we say to someone who is a perfectly decent human being who just happens to come from a different cultural background, and feels he is being true to himself and his ancestors in being e.g. a Hindu? Is it a simple case of "your religion is wrong, mine is right"? And what do we say to someone who we see clearly is a good, even a loving person, but is an atheist? Is it simply "the good you do is no good because it's not done in the name of Christianity?"

This is a terribly hard question, Byron, and I feel it's
wise to be circumspect in saying much.

But when we say "outside the Church," what do we mean? Do we mean "outside Orthodoxy," in which case all of our fellow Christians are "outside the Church" in the same sense that a Buddhist or Muslim is "outside the Church"?

I would have trouble believing that, especially since I personally know heterodox Christians who show evidence of the Holy Spirit working in their lives.

It seems safe to say that OLGS Jesus Christ, the lover of man, judges people by the light they have. Beyond that, I don't know what we can say.

Thanks for opening up an important topic.

In XC,
Alec, sinner

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I think that Alec's sentence above, "It seems safe to say that OLGS Jesus Christ, the lover of man, judges people by the light they have," is correct (altho I don't know what OLGS means- sorry!). The idea that only those who consciously are part of the Orthodox Church can be saved is not only morally difficult for us to accept. There is also the crucial Patristic point that our salvation is achieved or not in accordance with the operation of free will. In other words perdition outside of free choice (eg the example of the Hindu in a small Indian village) incorrectly places salvation outside of the context of our free encounter with the Living Personal God. This surely is a very wrong idea.

Of course on the other hand the teaching about the exclusivity of the Church which the Holy Frs also clearly referred to should not ignored. Here is not only the teaching about the Church containing the fullness of truth as the Body of Christ. There is also something mystically prophetic in this teaching that at the Culmination of all things the only reality will be the Church and that each will find his/her own place according to how one responds to this reality. And surely how one will respond is intimately connected to the choices one made in this life. Or to say it more simply- Christ then will be the fulfillment of everything one was looking for now.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Alec Lowly]

Father Raphael writes:

"I think that Alec's sentence above, "It seems safe to say that OLGS Jesus Christ, the lover of man, judges people by the light they have," is correct (altho I don't know what OLGS means- sorry!)."

Our Lord, God and Savior (OLGS) Jesus Christ.
A.L.

[Olga]

Fr Raphael

OLGS is the acronym for Our Lord God and Saviour.

[Yiannis Vitalis]

I would like to mention the answer of St Nectary of Optina (+1929, the last Staretz of Optina), when one of his disciples posed him the question about the salvation of the non-Orthodox Christians.

St Nektary told him that a person outside the Orthodox Church, even outside Christianity, who has never had the occasion to hear about the Orthodox Christian faith, if he follows the law of his consciousness, if he tries to be righteous, HE MIGHT BE SAVED by a way that ONLY GOD KNOWS. But an Orthodox Christian who rejects his faith and embraces another faith, CANNOT BE SAVED.

(St Nektary, the latest staretz of Optina, published in Greek by St Symeon the New Theologian Monastery).

In a recent book containing the correspondance between Elder Sophrony and David Balfour (published by St John the Forunner Patriarchal monastery, Essex, Great Britain), the blessed Elder tells Balfour, who was then a R.C. priest but moving towards Orthodoxy, that Christians outside the Orthodox Church may receive the Grace of God, but the FULLNESS OF GRACE exists only in the Orthodox Church. If I am not wrong, the expression "the fullness of Grace" means the Grace leading to the sanctification, to the theosis. I think that it becomes clear to all the people accustomed with the writings of the blessed Elder Sophrony that he used to speak only from his very rich and deep spiritual experience, and not from his mind. It is also evident that the spiritual experience of the blessed Elder is absolutely identified with that of the whole Church, since Her foundation.

I think the salvation of the "others" is a mystery of God and if we try to resolve it by our mind, we run the risk to start a useless and endless debate. In the Gerontikon there is a story about an "answer" that St Anthony the Great received by the Grace while he was inquiring with curiosity the will of God about this matter. Let's try to live more simply and more deeply in Christ, as Orthodox Christians, trusting the experience of the Holy Fathers, as St Anthony, St Nektary, Elder Sophrony and many others.

[Daniel Jeandet]

"The Holy Spirit is present unconditionaly in all things, in that he embraces all things, provides for all, and vivifies the natural seeds within them. He is present in a specific way in all who are under the law, in that He shows them where they have broken the commandments and enlightens them about the promise concerning Christ.

In all who are Christians He is present also in yet another way in that He makes them sons of God. But in none is He fully present as author of wisom except in those who have understanding, and who by their holy way of life have made themselves fit to receive his indwelling and deifying presence.

For everyone who does not carry out the divine will, even though he is a believer, has a heart which, being a workshop of evil thoughts, lacks understanding, and a body which, being always entangled in the defilements of the passions, is mortgaged to sin."

Saint Maximos the confessor.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

OLGS. Thanks for the explanation. I'm a bit of a techno-barbarian up here in the great white north.http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/blush.gif
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Scott Pierson]

I've heard certain protestants state that if a person shows any will to reject sin and embrace salvation then God makes sure they come in contact with a "preacher of the Word" and that those who never hear of Christ are those who have rejected the light they already have. They point to the Eunuch coming all the way to Israel to hear of Christianity because God organized that for him. Basically they are saying that God uses His foreknowledge to get the Gospel everywhere it will be accepted.

I'm not sure if it I can agree with that. It does seem to have a certain logic to it though. Any opinions on that?

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Mr Pierson, you wrote:


I've herad certain protestants state that if a person shows any will to reject sin and embrace salvation then God makes sure they come in contact with a "preacher of the Word" and that those who never hear of Christ are those who have rejected the light they already have. They point to the Enuuch coming all the way to Israel to hear of Christianity because God organized that for him. Bassically they are saying that God uses His forknowledge to get the Gospel everywhere it will be accepted.

There is a tradition in the ascetical life that when the disciple is ready, the teacher will appear; but one shouldn't be too literalistic about this. There is a want of spiritual eldership today - this saying doesn't mean an elder will miraculously appear when one wishes and is prepared. Rather, it has something to say about the preparedness of the disciple: when one is truly ready for growth and for advancement in the ascetical life, one finds instruction coming from sources that wouldn't seem likely candidates were one not ready. One sees God's hand, God's provision, more clearly, when one is ready to receive what it has to offer.

INXC, Matthew