Predestination and the Orthodox view

[Heather M]

Hi...

This may be kind of stupid, but can someone explain to me the "Orthodox" definition of what is meant by "predestined"?

I don't understand this...

I don't know what to make of ideas like fate, or destiny, so how does being predestined differ from these ideas, and what exactly does it mean?

thanks

[Teo Kia Choong]

I am interested in knowing how far the strand of thought known as "predestination", existent somewhat in circles influenced by Augustine of Hippo and many other Catholic church authorities, is inconsistent with Orthodox spirituality and theology. Can anyone on the list tell me how far the early Church Fathers and the Orthodox Church fathers(or theologians) take a stand for or against the doctrine of predestination?--
Kevin

[Chuck S.]

Greetings Teo,

While I can't quote the Church Fathers on this issue, and I dont want to say anything wrong, (if I do others may correct me) but my understanding is the Orthodox Church has always strongly rejected the idea that God pre-ordains or pre-chooses some to be saved and others to be damned.

The Church has always taught free will. God wishes that ALL come to repentance. God calls all, yet He forces no one. He wishes all to be saved, yet cannot force salvation on us.

We must cooperate with God in our salvation. It is a free gift, yet we must accept it, as well as work to keep the gift. Orthodoxy rejects Calvinism and its similar doctrines.

I don't know about the fathers much, but have never seen any hint of this belief in their writings. (of course I mean Eastern fathers, Augustine Ihave read which seems almost identical to Calvin)

The Church has never taught such things, that God decides who is saved and who isn't. We have free will, and if we work with God we can be saved. If we work against God we may be condemned. But God doesn't choose these things for us. It is we who choose, not God forcing us to do sin or repent. (how could God do such a thing and still be God)

For those who truly study Calvinism, and no offense to any Calvinists here, but their version of God is truly monstrous IMO and not the true God of Abrhaham saac and Jacob, not the God of the One True Church.

With all that said, God does KNOW all things. Because He is outside of time. Yet because He knows something does not mean He is the cause of it.

This is what the Church has always taught and believed.

of course if I have said something wrong, or not completely right, anyone can feel free to correct me.

In Christ, Thomas

[cale]

we are free, God is free and the devil is free.

[Fr Averky]

Dear Kevin.

You have been given some well-researched answers by others, and I hope that this will help to answer your question. Unlike Western Christianity, the Orthdodox church tends much less to "dogmatize" when it come to questions such as yours. The Western churches have more of a tendency to put everything into a neat, orderly and logical package. If you were to get to know Orthodoxy well, you would would find that to our Western counterparts, we seem to be a total mess, yet we seem to be very comfortable with our Christianity, and having very much the sense of being God's children, we leave much to the Mystery who is God. This is a simplistic answer, but it is true

The average Orthodox Christian does not concern himself if he might be "predestined" or not, and he certainly does not and could not have a notion of receiving salvation whether he wanted it or not ( Irresistable Grace) as is Calvin's idea. Nor could he imagine that if he was not among the Elect, that no matter how much he tried he would still be among the damned, again, Calvin's notion. The life of the Orthodox Christian is seen as a steady progression on the path to salvation, which is accomplished, by tears, sorrows and repentance and has as an impotant basis, love for God and neighbor, A perfect example of the Christian life is the parable of the Publican and the Pharisee, for the Pharisee is most of us, proud, uncaring and unloving for others, feeling "justified" in our small efforts, and looking down on the "low-lifes", the sinners of this world. He is a "good person," paying his taxes, never breaking the law, faithful to his wife and supportive of the governement. On the other hand, the Publican stands way in the back of the synagouge, and striking his breast, can only beg for God's mercy, and as Christ Himself tells us, it is his prayer which justified him and is plessing to God, for he is sincere and acknowledges that he is a sinner. If we live our lives in a Christian manner, we need not concern ourselves if we be among the elect or not. In the long run of things, Christ has come again, He has judged the living and the dead, and we have either reached salvation or condemned ourselves, but that is in the framework of eternity, so we still toil in this life and in the time God has given us. may we use it well.

Father Averky

[Antonios]

We mustn't forget that God is outside of time. He is not limited to time as the material universe is. As the Almighty Creator of time, He is above time and has complete dominion over it. God knows very well when and how you are going to die and what your eternal judgment at the end of the age will be. If He didn't, then He wouldn't be God.

That being said, this is not predestination in an active sense whereby our freedom of will is hindered or subverted. Our individual moralities are how we adhere to His commandments. Hopefully to righteousness, toiling always like workers in the vineyard, striving to obey His commandments in our struggle to 'be perfect, as our Father in Heaven is perfect'.

We run the race and God gives the crown. We also bear the cross and follow Him, knowing that when one bears the burdens of others, such sacrifice is Life-giving. This is the Gospel of Christ. One cannot get to the Resurrection without climbing Golgotha. This is the mystery revealed to mankind by Christ, Who warned all those who followed Him of the trials and persecutions that we, in obedience and faith, would endure against the hatred the world and the demons have for those who follow Him. And that we should endure so patiently, with love and mercy and forgiveness towards all. Though the entire world and all of the demons attack us, we should not resign to worry nor shrink in fear nor even raise our hands in anger, but we should look to the Lord and follow Him, and allow Him to enter our hearts and heal us by His Holy Spirit so that we too might find the Kingdom of Heaven.

Made 'in the image and likeness' of the Creator, He has granted us the awesome gift of freedom of thought and mind, though through our sins, they too are corrupted and rots just like our very bodies. This freedom of thought is the greatest gift He could give us, enabling us the means to share His Kingdom with Him. And true, pure, eternal love can only be given freely, otherwise it is not pure, nor true, nor divine. Thus, only a God of Love could grant His creation with such a gift.

But going back to the point of your post, God in His omnipotence already knows the decision we will make at any given instance. He knows where we will exactly be this time two weeks from now. He knows when and how we will live our lives and how we will die, and ultimately, whether we will inherit the Kingdom of God. In this He predestines us. By this, our fate is known to Him, because of His divine foreknowledge. So while He knows our eternal fate, He is not responsible for it. Our decision to accept Him or reject Him is our decision alone, and we will have to give account of it before His Judgment Seat.

This does not by any mean mean that God wills us to choose the decisions we make (otherwise everyone would be saints!) We make them. We make all of them. Lest we make God the author of evil and the source of unrighteousness! Bigger blasphemy than this, there is not! This is the sin against the Holy Spirit!

We are the sole owners and creators of our will and it is up to us to choose God or reject Him.

"I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life." (Deut 30:19)

"If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land; But if you refuse and rebel, you shall be devoured by the sword” (Is 1:19)

"If anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself." (Mt 16:27)

"If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." (Mt 19:17)

“If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor” (Mt 19:21)

"How often I wanted to gather your children together...but you were not willing! (Mt 23:37)

"You are not willing to come to Me that you may have life." (Jn 5:40)

“The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come." (Mt 22:2-3)

Our will is free, and our role in our salvation is very real; not just at a single point in the past, but in every moment of every day of our lives. And to grow in eternally closer communion with God, we must strive to conform our own will to His. Through this He bestows His Grace and sends heavenly blessing upon us. In this we partake of the divine nature.

God wishes and "desires all men to be saved" (1 Tim 2:4), and He shows no impartiality or injustice. For He "so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." Christ's saving work on the Cross did not offer salvation for just some of the people, but for all of His children. Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, not only for some things in the world, but for all of creation!

We will be held accountable for what kind of stewards we have been and how we managed the talents He gave us.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy upon us and teach us to follow you every moment and in every decision we make in life, so that by Your Power and Grace, we might share eternal life - growing forever deeper in mystical and complete communion with You in love.

[Sacha]

Thank you Antonios for sharing that and for your beautiful prayer.

[Paul Nurmi]

Orthodoxy could be described as one of divine-human synergy. God works to save us; He enables us to believe; and we choose whether or not we receive. It is neither divine monergism, where God is active and humans are passive in every sense; or human monergism, where humans are active and God is passive. I have heard of monergism among Calvinists, where there is no co operation between humans and God. Synergy implies, faith is still a gift and work of God the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:4), yet God does not force anyone to receive. He-in His mysterious, unexplainable way-wrestles with the human conscience and will (John 16:8-11), trying to win people's hearts, but never forcing them. So God is a Lover who wants people who embrace Him because they want to know Him.

In the risen Lord, Paul Nurmi