Assistance with the Eucharist

[Nathan McClelland]

Hello -

I am wondering if anyone can point me in the direction of early references to the Eucharist. I know of the letter of St Ignatius and the writings of Justin Martyr - are there any other sources that specifically reference the Real Presence, especially prior to 150 AD? I am currently investigating Orthodoxy and am coming from a Protestant perspective, so questions on the sacraments & saint veneration are factoring heavily in my studies right now. Any help is much appreciated.

[Arsenios]

Well, if Paul is early enough, the references are fairly abundant:

1Co 10:16 - The cup of blessing which we bless: is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break: is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1Co 10:21 - Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils; ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and of the table of devils.Œ

1Co 11:25 - In the same manner also He took the cup when He had supped, saying, "This cup is the new testament in My blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of Me."

1Co 11:26 - For as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death until He come.

1Co 11:27 - Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

1Co 11:28 - But let a man examine himself, and then let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup.

The presence is real...

If you read the surrounding contexts, one place describes the fates of some of those who ate and drank unworthily, not discerning the body, and became sick, and some even died.

The presence is real...

It is not just a memory jogger...

We partake in fear and trembling...

Arsenios

[Warren Bensinger]

Excuse me if I'm being too bold but I overlooked the sayings of Jesus Himself and respected those of my teachers when I was a protestant. Not that you are. I had to ask myself Did He really mean what Matthew and Luke said? If He didn't mean His real body and real blood why would God lie to me. Or did we just translate it wrong? But others (Paul as Arsenios pointed out) said the same things and then more in the writings of the Early Fathers. What's a person to do with the following verse right in your hands.

Matthew 26:26
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
(Matthew 26:25-27)

Please forgive my ignorance. Maybe I'm missing something. Also there has to be someone that is able to ask for the changing of the bread and wine into Body and Blood. Who could do that?

May God be merciful to you and I.

Learning to love.
warren

[George]

Nathan,

Jaroslav Pelikan, in his first volume of the History of the Development of Doctrine, quotes Theophilus of Antioch complaining of the criticisms of pagans against the church:

...one of the most widespread calumnies against the Christians was the charge, "most impious and barbarous of all, that we eat human flesh" or "loaves steeped in blood". The basis for this accusation was the language used by Christians about the Eucharist... these slanders would seem to be an important source of information in support of the existence of such a doctrine...

I don't know when Theophilus wrote this (he was made Bishop in 169) - clearly the reference indicates existence of such doctrine well before that.

George

[Chuck S.]

Greetings in the name of the Lord!

I personally like St. Paul's writings about this subject.

George posted some of Paul's quotes, but forgot my favorite:

"For whoever eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgement to himself, no discerning the Lord's Body. For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. (have died)" - 1st Corinthians 11:29-30

According to Paul, if someone partakes of the Eucharist in an unworthy manner they can get sick, and even DIE. Seems pretty harsh for a mere trip down memory lane and eating just bread and wine.

However, if indeed the Eucharist is Mysteriously Christ (who is God) then partaking of it in a seriously sinful state, would cause such a reaction.


Of course there are other Biblical passages as well, especially John chapter 6. However, as for other early Church writings, I believe the Didache talks about the Eucharist, but I dont have a quote off hand. The Didache was written between 70 and 140 AD. So its very early. There are other writings as well, but obviously Ignatius and Justin Martyr are the most commonly known.

I'll also add that one of the earliest charges against Christianity was that they were all canables. The charge goes that they would sacrifice someones infant 'son' (ie: Son of God) and drink its blood and its its flesh.

I know I have an early letter of such an accusation somewhere in my favorite links, but I'll have to find it.

Others will be far more helpful than I, but I still find this subject interesting, so I wanted to post.

In Christ, Chuck