Apophatic theology

[Theopesta]

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b05.en.the_illness_and_cure_of_the_soul.01.htm#me7 http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_down.gif


Moreover they used apophatic language to demonstrate the incapability of the mind to understand and express God. This apophatic theology is the "Golgotha" and the "cross" of human knowledge, but also of human reason

http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/triangle_right.gif1- what the mean of apopphatic theology??

2- what is mention of: This apophatic theology is the "Golgotha" and the "cross" of human knowledge, but also of human reason

3- what the mean or whom are the neptic fathers?

4- what the mean of Hagiorite?

many thanks
in CHRIST

[Olga]

Hagiorite means "of or from the Holy Mountain", Mt Athos. From the Greek "Hagion (or Agion) Oros".

[Leandros Papadopoulos]

Siter Theopesta,

There are two types of Orthodox theology:

the explanatory/affirmative (greek term: katafatikos), which defines what God is: God is good, God is eternal. And there is also the negative/apophatic (greek term: apofatikos), which defines what God is not: God is not created, God is passionless.

By saying that "the apophatic theology is the "Golgotha" and the "cross" of human knowledge, but also of human reason" is expressing the orthodox life that is putting knowledge and reason under the orthodox relation with God. In this context, the human knowledge and reason are forced to stay still without being in position to "consume" the knowledge of God.

For example, we say that God is Love and when our human mind is ready to "consume" this knowledge, here comes the apophatic theology that defines that God is passionless and our mind is being found in the middle of two rival concepts and it stands still, because if it adopts the one it must reject the other and yet they are both accepted as true at the same time.

Another example of apophatic theology is when we say that the Son is not created, yet He is begotten from the Father. The human mind can not accept both propositions and it remains still without using the instrument of logic, but it uses the experience from the relation with God and the knowledge of faith.

In this context, the apophatic theology contradicts the affirmative theology in every instance and the mind is being hold in an idle position. If it tries to go towards the affirmative notion it is being restricted by the apophatic notion and the opposite. So the mind stays still, like being crucified in front of the presence of Christ. It can not make a rational decision on its own although all facts are being given to it.

The neptic fathers are saints of the Orthodox Church that were being glorified by God and have their hearts cleaned. The name "neptic" comes from the greek verb "nepsis" which means catharsis/cleanliness and in the orthodox usage it is defined as:

Nepsis, neptic: Nepsis is vigilance of the nous and watchfulness at the gates of the heart, so that every thought that moves in it can be controlled. Neptic is an adjective pertaining to the method used for nepsis.

You can find a definition of these terms at the end of the article THE NEPTIC AND HESYCHASTIC CHARACTER OF ORTHODOX ATHONITE MONASTICISM (http://www.greekorthodoxchurch.org/neptic_monasticism.html)

In north Greece there is a place which is being called The Holy Mountain, which is a peninsula with a great mountain of 2.033 meters high, where in 963 a monastery was founded by Saint Athanasius the Hagiorite. After a while many other monasteries were being founded and by the 15th century there were 40 monasteries and about 40,000 monks. Nowadays the number of functioning monasteries has dwindled to 20 with a population of approximately 2000-3000 brethren. The greek name for the place is Hagionoros so the monks are being called Hagiotire (as Siter Olga has already explained). The peninsula is also called peninsula of mount Athos, so the monks are also being called Athonite. So the names Athonite and Hagiorite refer to the monks of the Holy Mountain of Athos in North Greece according to their Greek name.

You can find information for the Holy Mountain in this traveler's web site (http://www.mountathos.co.uk).

May God bless us, all.

[Theopesta]

many thanks for you Olga and Bother Leandros Papadopoulos,

indeed what you write not present in any book in between my hand
from the posts I understand that:
Hagionoros = H agion oros = the holy mountain
in CHRIST

[Patrick Walsh]

In his defense of icononodulism, "On the Holy Icons," St. Theodore the Studite uses apophatic theology to great effect. He points out the many ways in which the iconoclasts have forgotten to remain still between the various paradoxes our mind is confronted with when it tries to rationalize God.

For instance, the Iconoclasts deny our ability to draw the face of God, yet Christ has a fully human face, which by definition can be drawn. If it were not capable of being drawn, then it is not fully human. To draw what cannot be drawn is one of the mysteries of the Holy Icons.

In a way, the Bible is the same. It speaks of the unspeakable. There are words there, but the words are finite and limitted in what they are able to convey of the truth. This is why we must continually pray to God for wisdom and clarity, and we must continue to rely on Holy Tradition, for St. Basil says"without tradition, scripture is reduced to mere letters on the page."

But I highly recommend "On the Holy Icons," by St. Theodore the Studite. It will reveal the extent of the stillness of your mind, and much of the mystery that is Christ.

Patrick

[Ken McRae]

For those who may be interested, here is a free PDF download of a masters degree thesis paper, of approximately 105 pages in length, on:

LINK=> The Development of Apophatic Theology from the Pre-Socratics to the Early Christian Fathers (http://etd-submit.etsu.edu/etd/theses/available/etd-0320106-222512/unrestricted/Millsapsthesis.pdf).

[Marie-Duquette]

For those who may be interested, here is a free PDF download of a masters degree thesis paper, of approximately 105 pages in length, on:

LINK=> The Development of Apophatic Theology from the Pre-Socratics to the Early Christian Fathers (http://etd-submit.etsu.edu/etd/theses/available/etd-0320106-222512/unrestricted/Millsapsthesis.pdf).

As I've tried to access this PDF download, I only get the message: There is no page to display.

Mr. McRae, would there be another way of finding this reference file.
Thank you.

marie+duquette

[Michael Stickles]

Marie,

You might want to give it another try. I just connected to the paper without difficulty. Perhaps you just had bad luck with your timing, and ran into a temporary connectivity problem with the hosting site.

Mike

[M.C. Steenberg]

Above, Mr Walsh wrote:


In his defense of icononodulism, "On the Holy Icons," St. Theodore the Studite uses apophatic theology to great effect. ...
I wanted to thank you for your post (http://www.monachos.net/forum/showpost.php?p=25053&postcount=5), which I found particularly interesting. The notion of the icons as expressing (in part) an apophatic theology is perceptive. I'd be curious if you -- or others -- could define a bit more precisely what you view as 'apophatic' about the examples you cited?

INXC, Dcn Matthew