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Theotokodoulos

10-08-2005, 09:56 PM

God bless you!!

It would be interresting to wright a littlebit about St. Joseph in the Orthodox church!!
Is there any wonderworking icon or so??

In Christ
Alexander

Jose Lauro Strapasson

01-03-2006, 10:39 PM

Well, did you know this site? http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif
http://www.saintjosephorthodox.org/

Paul Cowan

23-11-2006, 07:39 AM

I attend St. Joseph the Bethrothed in Houston. I am sure Father Matthew or Father James can answer your questions. It is truly a blessing to attend this Parish where the whole Holy Family is venerated each Sunday.
Paul

Florianos

06-08-2007, 09:13 PM

Glory be to God!!

I discovered that Elder Amphilochios Makris honered St. Joseph the Betrophed very much!!!

He founded also Monastery in honor of St.Joseph ,in the Katholikon an old icon is venerated wich shows St. Joseph holding the Godchild Christ in his arms!

For Elder Amphilochios St. Joseph was perhaps the greatest Saint because would there be a greater one , God would chosen him !!

The Godchild called him Father and he was the Betrophed of the Allholy Theotokos!! So he asked Elder Gerasimos of mount Athos to write a full Service in his honor !!

There exist also an Akathistos to St. Joseph!

In Christ
Alexander

Olga

09-08-2007, 06:34 AM

A word of warning on icons of St Joseph the Betrothed showing him holding the young Christ:

The proper iconographic portrayal of St Joseph should be as for any other saint, either frontal or inclined to one side as in a deesis/supplication series, with hand raised, directed to the central figure of Christ. He may be shown holding two turtle-doves (the sacrifice brought to the Temple when the infant Christ was brought at the age of 40 days), and/or a budding rod (from the Protoevangelion of James which describes how he was chosen to be the betrothed of the Virgin.) He must also be shown as an old man, with grey or white hair and beard, not, as so often in recent western art, with dark hair.

The only holy figures who can be properly portrayed holding the infant Christ are His mother (of course!), and Venerable Symeon the God-receiver, who took the Child in his arms at His presentation to the Temple, and confessed Him to be the Messiah. There seem to be no ancient (pre-17th century) icons of St Joseph holding the Child, and this is not surprising. The only examples of such imagery I have come across are overwhelmingly of 20thC vintage (other than a couple of Cypriot and Cretan provenance, and dating from the 18th-19th centuries, times and places which were under heavy western influence), and clearly derived from Roman Catholic religious art. The RC church has a very different theological and doctrinal position on St Joseph than does the Orthodox, including the notion of the "Holy Family".

I have a good amount of information on this subject, I would be happy to post more if people are interested. The Orthodox Church certainly venerates St Joseph as one of the "ancestors" of God (his feast day is the first Sunday after the Nativity of the Lord, along with St James the Brother of the Lord, and King David). He is present in the iconography of every Orthodox church, in the icons of the Nativity, and of the Meeting of the Lord, which every church has in its possession. However, in terms of Orthodox theology, doctrine and liturgical content, portraying St Joseph holding Christ cannot be justified.

I do not wish to sound harsh or judgemental towards those iconographers who have portrayed St Joseph in this way, only to point out their error. Honest mistakes are commonplace in iconography.

Florianos

09-08-2007, 07:09 PM

God bless!!
I am sorry but you are wrong!The showing of St. Joseph the Betrophed on icons with the Godchild in his arms is absolut within the iconographic tradition of orthodox church!!Do you not know the ancient frescoes from constantinopel where you can see the Christchild sitting on the shoulders of St. Joseph looking to the Theotokos sitting on the donkey?Here he is sitting on his shoulders why not on his arms?
That the veneration of St. Joseph started early we can see from the apocryph text;The history of Joseph. ) 4th cent.
And that St. Joseph is one of the greatest Saints must be clear to every christian !!He was chosen to be Step-Father of God ,his guard, his nuturer,his educater ,the betrophed of his Allholy mother!!When St. Symeon is such a great saint for receiving the Godchild for short time how much greater must St. Joseph be, who lived years togehter in the same house with God and his Mother??
St. Ephraim writes, depicting St. Joseph holding the Christchild in his arms and saying:Who hath given me the Son of the Most High to be a son to me?
Yet a crown hath come to me , for in my bosom is the Lord of crowns!
He also writes that :St Joseph caressed the son as a babe,he ministered to him as God.Also Saint Amphilochios said would there be a holier man God would chosen him!!In the Katholikon of St. Josephs Monastery also an very ancient Icon is vernerated(wonderworking?)!!You should also read the Text of the service to St. Joseph!!He also was very sad that in Hellas St. Joseph is not more honored!!
Christ closed the eyes of St. Joseph on his deadbed and burried him and wept over him, wich other Saint is honored in such a way??
so I think you are a littlebit justified??

In CHRIST
Alexander

Florianos

09-08-2007, 10:45 PM

God bless!!

You are absolutly wrong Olga! It is completly within orthodox iconographic tradition to show St. Joseph the Betrophed with the Christchild on his arms!!
Do you not know the ancient frescoes of chora in constantinopel were you can see the Christschild sitting on St. Josephs shoulders looking to the Theotokos sitting on the donkey!!
What makes the difference to sit on shoulders or on arms?
That the veneration of St. Joseph started early we see from the apocryph text: History of St. Joseph from the 4 cent.
Also St. Ephraim writes that St.Joseph caressed the Son as a babe, he ministered to him as God! He writes also depicting St.Joseph holding the Godchild in his arms saying: Who hath given me the Son of the Most High to be a Son to me?Yet a crown hath come to me, for in my BOSOM is the Lord of crowns!!When St. Symeon the Godreceiver is such a great Saint for only receiving short the Godchild how great must Joseph be who was chosen to be the Step Father of God, his nuturer, guardian, educater,teacher in carpentry, who lived with God and the Theotokos in one house for years!
Christ called him Father the Theotokos Betrophed !!Joseph had the christchild circumcised and redeemed him as the firstborne in the tempel.In gospel we read also that the Theotokos said :Behold THY FATHER and I....
When Joseph was dying Christ said to him on the deathbed :Hail my Father Joseph , thou rightous man ! Christ closed his Fathers eyes and buried him
in the sepulcher near Jerusalem after having embrace him and wept over him!! Wich Saint was honored like this???St. Joseph lived for 110 years!!
St. Amphilochios also believed that St. Joseph was one the greatest Saints and was sad that there are no churches in his honor in greece so he started to consecrate Churches and chapels to him.
He founded a monastery in Kouwari in his honor.Like I have posted in the Katholikon is an ancient(wonderworking?) icon venerated !!He asked also Geron Gersimos to write a full Service! In the Orthros they chant:
Let us bless and praise
the allvirtuous Betrophed of th Allholy Virgin
the Friend of god and divine Servant
the allworthy Joseph,
thy memory we celebrate with joy
that we my reveice mercy from him Who called the father!

And in the Akathistos ikos 9

Rejoice, thou wast chosen to nuture and guard the Christchild who nutures as God the whole world
Rejoice, thou wast found worthy to see the Godman from face to face, to hold him in thy hands and to kiss his allholy face

So I hope you are satisfied ?

In CHRIST
Alexander

Michael Stickles

10-08-2007, 12:24 AM

Alexander,

I'm afraid that nothing you said in your post proves Olga wrong.

Icons are not just depictions of people or events -- they are visual theology. The proper question is not "did St. Joseph ever hold the Christ child?", but "does it depict proper Orthodox theology to show St. Joseph holding the Christ child"? Evidence of veneration of St. Joseph is irrelevant, as no one is challenging his veneration, only the specifics of his proper iconographic depiction.

As to the fresco at Chora -- yes, there is a big difference in St. Joseph carrying Christ on his shoulders, or holding Him in his arms. As I read in Legends of the Madonna:

To Joseph was granted, in those hours of distress and danger, the high privilege of providing for the safety of the Holy Infant--a circumstance much enlarged upon in the old legends, and to express this more vividly, he is sometimes represented in early Greek art as carrying the Child in his arms, or on his shoulder, while Mary follows on the [donkey].

However, a representation of him carrying Christ in his arms paternally, similar to the depictions of the Theotokos holding Christ, would represent a theology of the "Holy Family". And, as is stated over on orthodoxinfo.com:

Orthodox iconology does not understand Saint Joseph to be the head of some sort of "Holy Family"; rather, he is seen as the Providentially-ordained guardian of the Theotokos and her Divine Child.

If I left anything out or mis-stated anything, hopefully one of the Orthodox members here can straighten that out.

In Christ,
Mike

Olga

10-08-2007, 08:58 AM

Well said, Mike. Icons are reflections of theology and doctrine, and not just simple narrative. The portrayal of St Joseph has become quite a topic for discussion in recent years, and there is much to consider, particularly as the imagery of Joseph holding the Child rendered in iconographic style (as distinct from a "realistic" style) is becoming increasingly common among Roman Catholics. This has led to understandable confusion among the Orthodox.

I do intend to post more on this topic, as the iconographic portrayal of St Joseph is a topic I have recently researched, but it shall have to wait for a week or so. I will be offline for the next few days :( as I am going on a short holiday :))

Florianos

10-08-2007, 11:41 AM

God bless!

Of course are icons not just depicting people and simple narratives,
But icons of course show in a theoligc manner historical events!
For me there is no different to sit on ones shoulders or on his arms!!To depict St. Joseph with the Godchild in his arms show us the unique privileg Joseph was chosen!!He was not only the guard and the nuturer of Christ!! He was his Step-Father. I posted above from the gospel:Behold THY FATHER ...the Theotokos is saying( and not thy guard, or nuturer), is not joseph his Father....the carpenters son?Now the parents....
St. Joseph also had redeemed him as the firstborne.He tool no part in the incarnation of Christ ,neverless he was chosen to be the Betrophed of the Theotokos and to be called the Father of the Lord!!He fulfilled all the duties of a Father of a father towards a son.He called his name Jesus, ahd circumcised and paid the redemption for the firstborne, fled with the
godchild and his Mother into egypt and than chose their place of residence in Nazareth.
Church tradition tells us that the Lord himslef worked along side His Foster Father as carpenter.
I also have posted above that Christ said to him: Hail my Fahter Joseph,thou rightous man!and Joseph answered: Hail my well-belvoed son !!
This intim relation only St, Joseph was honored to have and this show us the depiction of holding him in his arms.This is full of theology!!
When I quoted St. Ephraim above - are his writings not full of holy theology,do you not see ,that he donot show us sentimental feelings in that!
It is not a part of Christs kenosis to be guard , feed, educated by an old ,poor and humble carpenter,to life in his poor house? And to obey him as child?
It was a theological reason St. Ephraim wrote that and in the Akathistos also is full of theology!!
I think the problem is another, do not care so much what catholics thinking or doing and how they honor st. Joseph! We are orthodox and should care about Holy Orthodoxy nothing else and not deny things wich are true only because heterotodox christians do similar things!!

I hope this is theology enouph?
In Christ

Mary

11-08-2007, 03:37 AM

Paul Cowan

11-08-2007, 04:14 AM

Mary,

Here is a link to the icon used in my parish of St. Joseph the Betrothed (http://www.serfes.org/lives/stjoseph.htm). It is not the website of my church though. His Saints day is December 30th new calendar.

Here is a link to a copy of the icon being questioned (http://www.monasteryicons.com/monasteryicons/Item_St-Joseph_727_ps_ixs.html).

I think there is a difference between carried on ones shoulders as is St. Christopher (http://www.monasteryicons.com/monasteryicons/Icon-Magnets_M16/Saints-of-the-East-and-West_G15/Item_St-Christopher_504_ps_cti-G15.html) (it is sad his feast day was removed from the RC calendar July 25) (May 9 on the OCA website) and being held in someones arms as in the Theotokos (http://www.rdrop.com/users/stmary/tss058.jpg).

I regret I am not able to find the icon of Christ on his shoulder. I will keep digging.
In my humble opinion, being carried on the shoulders is a representation of a burden to be carried or superiority of the one being carried. To be held in the arms is a form of endearment not to mention protection.

In my parish we have the Holy family represented on our iconostasis. St. Joseph the Betrothed on the far left alone with doves and lillies, the Theotokos and Christ child next, then Christ then the Holy Forerunner on the far right.

Paul

Herman Blaydoe

11-08-2007, 02:16 PM

I don't know about the icons in question, but "Monastery Icons" is certainly a very questionable source for icons. I would question almost anything they sell, even if it is perfectly Orthodox in form. Many of their icons are very unorthodox indeed. Reputable Orthodox have gone on record saying not to buy their icons. The "monks" in question preach a rather eclectic mix of gnosticism, hinduism, and syncretism behind trappings of Orthodoxy.

Florianos

11-08-2007, 07:28 PM

God bless !!

To be held in the arms is a form of endearment not to mention protection.

But like I have posted above St. Joseph was not only the protector, he was his Stepfahter and had a deep relation with Christ - an unique one!!! No other Saint was so intim with the Godchild and his Mother - this shows us the depicting in the icon!!

We have an high venerated icon of St.Joseph with the christchild on his arms in our chapel. St. Joseph holds the Godchild with his completly covered and wrapped left hand and with the right he shows to christ. Perhaps I can send you a foto Mary? We often read the akathistos to St. Joseph and pray for protection of the orthodox church! Like he protected the Theotokos and the Godchild so he protects the church and us! I also like the icons with the lilies and doves but I think his unique role in the economy óf Gods Salvation is better shown in the other style!!

An Christ promised to fulfill all requests and prayers that are made in Josephs name!!!( written in the History of Joseph4 cent.)

There are many icons today in orthodoxy wich are truly against the tradition of icon painting, I donnot like the icon( wich is called of the holy family). On this icon St. Joseph led his hand on the Theotokos shoulders and Christ is in the midst-this icon is truly irritating!! Or in russia are some icons of the theotokos venerated wich are contrary to the iconographic canon!!You can see the Theotokos folding her hands!!! for prayer, reading in a book with open hair...I donot know the name yet,but there are some others too!!

I do also not like western styled icons and western copies but we should not fall into extrems!!

In CHRIST

Kris

12-08-2007, 08:01 PM

I regret I am not able to find the icon of Christ on his shoulder.

http://www.struggler.org/egyptm.jpg

Florianos

13-08-2007, 01:40 PM

Paul Cowan

14-08-2007, 12:14 AM

Dear Alexander.

Thank you for sharing this icon with us. St. Joseph is the patron of my parish so I also have a deep affinity for him and seek his prayers often.

I am puzzled or rather interested in the various "flight into Egypt" icons available. Here is a Coptic Icon (http://www.comeandseeicons.com/icxc/mgc02.htm). As you can see the Theotokos is carrying the Child. Please I mean no disrespect for the icon in your parish, it is a wondeful icon. I was taught, correctly or not that St. Joseph should never be seen with the Child since the miracle is with the Theotokos and not him. She is the only one ever to be seen holding the Child.

And another (http://poseidon.csd.auth.gr/athos/icon8.jpg)from Dionysiou of Athos. Since Christ went to Egypt first, I dare say the Copts have a better historical record of the time than the rest of us. Look 3/4 way down the page for this icon (http://touregypt.net/featurestories/copticpainting.htm).

The internet can be a terrible source of information especially when it means arguing between brothers who wrote a better or worse icon. Suffice it to say, whether written well or poorly, they are all windows into Heaven. Personal preferences aside, what was written from antiquity should be the norm.

Paul

Mary

14-08-2007, 12:40 AM

God bless!!

Rejoice, Holy and rightous Joseph thou ready helper and intercessior of our souls!!

http://www.monachos.net/forum/C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Administrator\Eigene Dateien\Eigene Bilder\josef\josefneu.jpg

This is the icon of St. Joseph the Betroped with the Godchild we venerate in our chapel!!

In CHRIST

Gee... is it just me, or can others also not see the icon that Alexander has posted? I can see the one that Kris has posted.

Thanks for all the links with the various icons, Paul. I'm getting quite an education! =)

Mary.

Michael Stickles

14-08-2007, 01:43 AM

It's not just you, Mary -- I can't see it either.

Paul Cowan

14-08-2007, 02:30 AM

Ditto,

Perhaps he can post it to his pictures area and we can all view it there?

Florianos

14-08-2007, 01:28 PM

Evlogeite!!

I am sorry about the icon I didnot know why it doesn`t work ??

I have to try again!!

I will remember u all when we are reading the akathistos!!

http://orthlit.de/Vierteljahreszeitschrift.htm#Band%2020

On this hompage you can see a small foto of the icon on volume 14 of " DER SCHAMLE PFAD" a very tradtional orthodox magazine for german speaking orthodox christians!!
But I will try again to post a better foto!!

In CHRIST

Olga

23-08-2007, 10:08 AM

Below is the first instalment of the results of my recent investigation into the iconography of St Joseph the Betrothed. I have condensed the original document for the benefit of readers, though I can provide more material should anyone be interested. References to non-Orthodox denominations are for reasons of comparison with Orthodox belief and practice, and are not intended to denigrate them or their beliefs. I also emphasise that the Orthodox church is not anti-western as such, it has simply not accepted doctrines or practices which are contrary to the mind of the Church. Comments and corrections to any errors of fact are welcome. Further posts to follow.

ST JOSEPH THE BETROTHED – ICONOGRAPHY AND THEOLOGY

1. Which icons exist in Orthodoxy which portray St Joseph?

* the Nativity (and the related scene of the dream of Joseph)
* Flight into Egypt
* Meeting of the Lord

More rarely:

* As a conventional "portrait" icon, as for any other saint.
* Along with Prophet King David and Apostle James the Brother of the Lord, being the "ancestors" of the Lord (feast celebrated the Sunday after the Nativity)

2. How is St Joseph portrayed?

In all cases, he is shown as an aged man, with white hair and a short beard. Church Tradition tells us that Joseph was married to Solomonia before becoming a widower, and that he was 80 years old when he was betrothed to the Virgin. We know of at least two of his children by his first wife: James, Apostle and first bishop of Jerusalem and Jude the Apostle (both referred to as "brothers of the Lord"), as well as Joses, Simon the Kinsman of the Lord, and unnamed sisters. The latter are more likely nieces or nephews of Joseph, rather than children of his. Most of what is known about Joseph is derived from the Protoevangelion of James, which, while it is not part of canonical scripture, has been the main source of the theology and imagery associated with the feasts of the Mother of God which are not mentioned in the Gospels. What is certain is that he was not a young man, comparable in age to the Virgin. This notion has only appeared in the west in the last century or so.

In the Nativity icon, Joseph is seated in a corner quite removed from the Mother of God and the newborn Christ. He is set some distance from the Virgin, and in pensive mood, as if he is coming to terms with the incomprehensibility of the great mystery of the incarnation and birth of God the Son and Messiah. This separation also illustrates the fact that he had no part to play in the conception of the Child, illustrating the virginity of Mary.

He is also less commonly shown accompanying the Virgin and Child in the Flight into Egypt icon. Joseph is seen following the donkey on which the Virgin and Child are riding, with his right hand raised in supplication. The donkey is being led along by a young man or a winged angel. It is only in much later versions that Joseph himself is seen leading the donkey, though he is still showing his deference with a raised hand.

Joseph is also featured in the icon of the feast of the Meeting of the Lord. He is shown standing behind the Mother of God (or, sometimes behind Righteous Anna the Prophetess), holding two turtle-doves as the sacrificial offering according to the Law.

The least common depiction of St Joseph is in the conventional frontal view, as would any saint be portrayed. Any examples of such a composition are contemporary, not ancient. He is shown holding a pair of turtle-doves, or sometimes a staff which has flowered with lilies. The latter imagery is derived from the Protoevangelion. He may also be holding a scroll, on which is the scripture passage of the prophecy of the Incarnation: “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: behold, the Virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and His name shall be Emmanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14)

3. What of other portrayals of St Joseph?

There is a recent phenomenon of non-Orthodox denominations adopting an “iconographic” style when producing their religious art. This has led to works which might appear to be icons in terms of the artistic style used, but which are doctrinally and theologically problematic from an Orthodox perspective. These include:

* St Joseph with the Christ-child in the composition style of Mother of God of Kazan
* St Joseph holding the young Christ as would His mother (there are examples in the Odighitria and Eleousa composition, and even in the Pelagonitissa form, where the Child is in a more playful pose
* St Joseph, the Virgin and Christ depicted as the Holy Family.

In many such cases, Joseph is shown as a young man with dark hair and beard.

The justification for these portrayals is the great emphasis placed by the Roman Catholic church, and some other western denominations, on the veneration of St Joseph as the foster-father and guardian of young Jesus, and protector of the Virgin. This is a comparatively recent development, arising largely in the 16th century through the efforts of St Theresa of Avila, who showed great devotion to this saint. More recently, through the influence of social justice principles on western devotion and theology, as well as a general “humanising” of holy persons to make them more “easy to relate to” has led to the appearance of such images as St Joseph holding the Christ-child. The Roman Catholic feast of St Joseph the Worker was instituted early in the 20th century. The feast day of May 1st was chosen to counteract the socialist/communist workers’ holiday held on the same day. Much western religious art shows saints with an item of their tools of trade. The Orthodox view is that a saint’s earthly occupation is only relevant when there is a theological or doctrinal meaning behind it. For instance, warrior-saints may be shown in military dress and armed. This is as much a reference to their spiritual and often physical struggle for the defence of the faith (as many were martyrs as well), as to their earthly station in life. The epistle reading for a warrior-saint is Eph. 6: 10-17: ”Put on the armour of God ….” Likewise, physician-saints are shown holding their medicament boxes and spoons (or styli), as these can represent spiritual as well as physical healing. By contrast, there is no special theological or doctrinal significance of Joseph’s trade which influenced the Orthodox view of him. Apostle Paul was a tent-maker, yet at no time have his tools of trade featured in his iconography, as they are irrelevant. It is the same with Joseph, as much as with the other carpenter-saints known to us, such as Apostle Thomas.

Olga

23-08-2007, 10:13 AM

4. What ancient iconographic record exists regarding iconography associated with St Joseph?

As mentioned above, there are abundant examples of icons from early centuries of the Nativity of the Lord, the Flight into Egypt, the Dream of St Joseph, and the Meeting of the Lord. Icons of St Joseph in a conventional “portrait” composition (as for any saint) are exceedingly rare. Of the very few that exist, all are of post-17th C origin, and from places such as Cyprus, Crete and other regions which were under heavy Venetian or other western influence at the time.

There may be a number of explanations for this: Firstly, every Orthodox church would possess an icon of the feasts of the Nativity and of the Meeting, as portable icons, and often as a mural or fresco on the walls of the church, therefore the iconographic presence of St Joseph is assured. Secondly, the feast of the Sunday after the Nativity appears to date to at least the 8th C, as the Canon for this feast was written by Kosmas the Monk (likely Kosmas the Hymnographer). Given that this feast is not of recent origin, the absence of reasonable numbers of old icons of St Joseph in the Orthodox world is significant, and not accidental. Interestingly, even in the “icons” of the Synodal period in Russia, and in other Orthodox countries between the 17th and 20th centuries, where iconography was overwhelmingly rendered in a naturalistic style, and whose content was often indistinguishable from western religious art, the portrayal of St Joseph alone (with or without the Christ-child) is singularly absent.

5. If there are no ancient models or prototypes (other than the festal icons and the Flight into Egypt), then how should St Joseph be portrayed?

Where no reliable “solo” prototypes exist, an iconographer must consider what Holy Tradition tells us about him. This is already clear to a certain extent in the consistent pictorial depiction of Joseph as an old man, with grey or white hair and a short, rounded beard. What is potentially problematic is when he is to be portrayed alone, outside of the festal icons or other scenes of which there are many historical examples. Scripture, iconography, the life of the saint, the writings of the Holy Fathers, and liturgical content must all be considered in arriving at an acceptable portrayal. As mentioned earlier, a number of iconographers have, in recent years, taken to depicting Joseph with the Child. It is an easy enough step to make, as many would regard it as only natural, given that Joseph was the earthly foster-father of Jesus, as well as protector and guardian of His mother.

To arrive at an answer for St Joseph, it is worth first considering the iconography of the Mother of God:

It is worth considering why the Mother of God is never portrayed alone, i.e. without her Child (apart from a small number of icons depicting a historical event, such as the icon Bogolyubskaya, or The Visitation to St Sergius of Radonezh):

The supreme regard in which she is held (which is abundantly expressed in the liturgical texts associated with her) is because of her obedience to the will of God in accepting this awesome, incomprehensible task, in giving birth to God Incarnate, and nurturing this Child as any mother would her own child. By obeying God, she annulled the disobedience of Eve. It is through Christ, and because of Christ, that she is held in the highest regard, more exalted than any of the saints, "more honourable than the Cherubim, and incomparably more glorious than the Seraphim". Christ took flesh from her, he was born of her, and he was nursed and nurtured by her. She is the bridge between humanity and divinity, between heaven and earth. Through her child-bearing, humanity has the chance to again participate in life with God, after the Fall brought on by Adam and Eve. She was graced by divinity in that she bore the Divine. It is for this reason that her icon is painted high above the altar in the apses of Orthodox churches. This exaltation in no way implies any divinity on the part of the Virgin, she was human and mortal like the rest of us.

It is also worth remembering that the Virgin is never referred to liturgically as a wife, only as a mother. Joseph, by contrast, was indeed betrothed to Mary, to become her husband. However, he is referred to by the Orthodox as "Joseph the Betrothed", not "Joseph the Husband". This distinction is quite significant, as it is yet another example of consistency with Christological doctrine. To call him Mary's husband could invite confusion as to the true paternity of the Child, as well as cast doubt on the virginity of Mary. The hymnody associated with him on his feast day certainly warmly speaks of him as a righteous, pious and honourable man. God would not have chosen him as the betrothed of the woman He appointed to bear the Messiah if he was unworthy of the task. Joseph indeed fulfilled his responsibilities as guardian of both Jesus and His mother in a blameless and honourable way. However, theologically, the paternal contact between Joseph and Jesus cannot be compared on the same theological level as the relationship of the Mother of God with her Child.

6. What can be said of the women bathing the newborn Child in icons of the Nativity?

The midwives bathing the Child in icons of the Nativity proclaims the humanity of this Child, as a counter to the heretical views that Jesus was divine but not fully human. This scene not only portrays a physical reality, but also a theological one. It expresses the truth of Christ's Incarnation, His full humanity as well as His full divinity. It illustrates that He was born naturally of a woman, as we all are, and did not simply materialise into the world as some sort of "spirit". As He was born in the same manner as any human child, He would have needed to be bathed following His birth. According to the hymnody of the Orthodox Church, the only difference in the physical birth of Christ compared to other human beings was that His mother "gave birth without travail". It also illustrates His humility, something that is mentioned time and again in the New Testament, be it His riding a donkey into Jerusalem, rather than a horse (as would conquering kings and generals when entering a city in triumph), or Apostle Paul's description of Christ's "self-emptying", that He "took on the form of a servant".

7. And of icons of St Christopher carrying the Child?

The story of the strong man ferrying travellers over the river on his back is of much later, post-schism origin (probably 12th C or later), considering St Christopher of Lycia was martyred in about AD 250 under Emperor Decius. All paintings and images of Christopher carrying the Christ-child date from the second millennium AD, and are all of western origin. There is no Orthodox iconography of this saint in this type of portrayal prior to this; rather, he is portrayed as a warrior, which is consistent with the earlier story of his life as a soldier. St Ambrose of Milan (340-397) wrote of the many thousands of pagans who were converted to Christianity by St Christopher. The portrayal of St Christopher fording the river in an “iconographic” style appeared no earlier than the 19th C, and possibly only in the 20th, the imagery being derived from western religious art.

8.And of icons of St Symeon the Righteous holding the Child?

The other holy figure who can be properly portrayed in an icon holding the infant Christ is Righteous Symeon the God-receiver. Some may ask, if he could, why not then Joseph? The answer is simple. When the Virgin and Joseph brought the 40-day old Jesus to the Temple, as was required under the Law, Symeon took the Child in his arms, and proclaimed this Child to be the Saviour of mankind promised of old by God through the prophets: "Now, Master, let Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word....". To this day, the words of Symeon's confession are sung at the close of every Orthodox Vespers service. The Song of Symeon the God-receiver at this point in the service symbolises the end of Old Testament history, and the beginning of the New, with the coming of the Saviour into the world.

It is also worth noting that the order of the figures in icons of the Meeting of the Lord are thus, from right to left: Symeon holding the Child, then the Mother of God, then Joseph holding the two turtle-doves. It is also the Virgin who is seen presenting the Child, not His earthly father, as would have actually happened under Jewish custom. In some compositions, Righteous Anna the Prophetess stands next to Symeon, in others, she is behind Joseph, and in some she stands between the Virgin and Joseph. This is consistent with the Flight into Egypt icons, In the earliest and most common examples, Joseph is seen walking behind the donkey carrying the Virgin and Child, holding the donkey's reins in one hand, and gesturing in supplication towards them with the other.

Olga

23-08-2007, 10:17 AM

9. What do the writings of the Church have to say about St Joseph?

The most concise source in Orthodoxy of the theology and doctrines associated with a particular saint or feast can be found in the Vigil service, particularly the Canon or Canons to that saint or feast.

Why is this so? While the writings of the Holy Fathers are valuable, there are instances where there can be inconsistency or disagreement between individual documents or Fathers. On the other hand, the liturgical texts represent the distillation of the theology and doctrine associated with that saint or feast, derived from the Tradition of the Church - scripture, apostolic and patristic teachings, etc. It also illustrates the universality of this theology and doctrine among all Orthodox, irrespective of ethnic or cultural origin. It is what the entire Church espouses. The text of the services for the feast of St Joseph, who is commemorated with the other "family members" of Christ mentioned earlier would be identical in every Orthodox church, irrespective of "ethnic" origin. The troparia, kontakia, stikhera, apostikha and canons specific to the feast would all be the same. Only the liturgical language used would vary.

It is instructive to compare the hymnody (liturgical content) for the feasts commemorating Joseph and Symeon. Below are all the verses where Joseph is mentioned, from the post-Nativity feast:

Vespers:

At "Lord, I have cried"

In old age Joseph the Betrothed beheld the things foretold by the prophets clearly fulfilled, having received a strange betrothal and a revelation from angels who cry: Glory to God, who has imparted peace upon the earth.

Troparion at the Blessing of Bread:

Proclaim, O Joseph, the glad tidings to David the ancestor of God, for you have seen the Virgin give birth. With the shepherds give glory, and with the Magi offer worship. You that were instructed by an angel, entreat Christ our God that He save our souls.

Matins: selections from the Canon:

Ode 1:
The choirs of angels stood before Joseph in Bethlehem, saying: Glory to God in the highest. With them let us hymn Him whose good pleasure it was to become incarnate.

Sessional Hymns

Let us fittingly hymn the righteous Joseph, the betrothed of the Virgin, with James and David; for, having trod the righteous path, they have attained the mansions of heaven, and fittingly joining chorus with the angels, they beg remission of sins for us.

The choir of prophets divinely celebrates the wonder which took place in you, O Virgin; for you gave birth to God, incarnate upon earth. Therefore, angels and shepherds hymn, and the Magi and Joseph sing of the wonders to David, the forefather of God.

Ode 4:
With the Magi let us worship him who has been born; and with the angels and Joseph let us join chorus, singing in godly manner: Glory to Christ our God in the highest.

Ode 5:
Glory to You; glory to You, O God incarnate, whose good pleasure it was to take flesh of the pure Virgin; thus Joseph sang.

Kontakion
Today the divine David is filled with gladness, and Joseph offers praise with James. They rejoice, receiving a crown through kinship with Christ; they praise Him, ineffably born on earth, as they sing: O compassionate one, save those who honour You.

Ode 7:
Amazed beyond words by the birthgiving of Mary, the Mother of God, the angelic choirs cried out to Joseph: Glory in the highest, and on earth peace.

Ode 8:Christ incarnate, glorified by the hosts of heaven, is also unceasingly hymned by Joseph the Betrothed: All you works of the Lord, hymn and exalt Him above all for ever.

Ode 9, eirmos:On the mountain Moses beheld the unconsumed bush; and in the cave Joseph witnessed the ineffable birth: O Mother of God, Virgin undefiled and unwed Mother, we magnify you in hymns.

Exaposteilarion:
Let us hymn David, the forefather of God, and divine Joseph, the betrothed of the Mother of God, with James, the glorious brother of God, for, with the angels, the Magi and the shepherds, they ministered in godly manner at the divine nativity of Christ in the city of Bethlehem, singing a hymn to Him as God and Master.

Below is a selection of verses from the feast of the Meeting of the Lord:

from the Apostikha at Vespers:
He who rides on the Cherubim and is hymned by the Seraphim is being brought today into God’s Temple according to the Law, and enthroned on aged arms. By Joseph He receives gifts befitting God, as a pair of turtledoves the unblemished Church and the newly chosen people of the nations; as Author of the Old and New Covenants, two young pigeons. Symeon, having received the fulfilment of the prophecy concerning Him, blessed Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, and foretold the symbols of the Passion of the One born from her. From Him he asks for his release, crying out, ‘Now let me depart, Master, as You promised me; for I have seen You, the pre-eternal light, Saviour and Lord of the people that bears Christ’s name.’

Troparion of the Feast:
Hail, full of grace, Virgin Mother of God, for from you there dawned the Sun of righteousness, Christ our God, who enlightens those in darkness. Be glad too, righteous Elder, for you received in your embrace the Liberator of our souls, who grants resurrection to us.

Kontakion of the feast:
You sanctified a virgin womb by Your birth, and fittingly blessed Symeon’s hands; You have come now too and saved us, O Christ God. But give peace to your commonwealth in times of war, and strengthen its rulers, whose friend you are, only Lover of mankind.

Ikos:
Let us run to the Mother of God if we wish to see her Son being brought to Symeon. From heaven the Bodiless Ones are amazed as they look on Him and say, ‘Wondrous and marvellous, incomprehensible, ineffable are the things we now see, for the One who created Adam is being carried as a babe; the Uncontainable is contained in the arms of the elder; He who is in the uncircumscribed bosom of his Father is willingly circumscribed in flesh, but not in Godhead, the only Lover of mankind’.

Magnification verse, Ode 9:
It is not the old man who holds Me, but I uphold him; for he begs Me to let him depart.

Exaposteilarion:
Coming to the Temple by the Spirit, the Elder received in his arms the Master of the Law and cried, ‘Now release me from the bond of the flesh in peace, as You said. For I have seen with my eyes the revelation of the Nations and the salvation of Israel’.

At the Dismissal:
May He who deigned to be held in the arms of the righteous Symeon for our salvation, Christ, our true God, through the prayers of His all-pure Mother .....

There are, in fact, some 31 verses in this Vigil which feature Symeon’s holding the Child. It is clear that this is not just a literal, physical event, but one of immense theological importance. It is clear that the hymnody concerning St Joseph in the post-Nativity vigil speaks of him in very different terms.

Regarding the Akathist to St Joseph, it does contain imagery such as him embracing and kissing the Child. I have the text on file of this akathist in both English and Slavonic. I have been unable to trace the origin of this akathist to where and when it was written, or whether it was written within the Orthodox Church. There is a possibility, which I am unable to confirm or refute, that it may have arisen from within the Byzantine Catholic/Uniate church, which would not be out of the question, given this church’s links with Rome. Quite a few akathists to non-Orthodox saints have been written in recent years, including those of the Roman Catholic and Anglican churches. I welcome further clarification on this matter.

Olga

23-08-2007, 10:19 AM

10. Did not Joseph spend more time than anyone else with Jesus (other than His mother)? Would not Joseph have held, caressed, shown love and affection to this Child?

St Joseph may have, or may not have, physically touched, even held and embraced the divine Child during his life. Church Tradition is silent on this, and, as illustrated by the liturgical texts, doesn’t seem to be of importance in how the Orthodox Church regards St Joseph. Iconography is not about “pious custom” or “what feels right”, or even “social justice”, such as the notion that Joseph can be an inspiration to fatherless children. Iconography is about theology and doctrine, of expressing the Mysteries, the things of God which cannot be fully known and comprehended by feeble human minds. The Mystery of the Incarnation is best expressed in icons of the Annunciation, and of the Mother of God with her Child. What is the equivalent theological premise which allows St Joseph to be placed on an equal level with the Mother of God?

11. Conclusion

The proper iconographic portrayal of St Joseph the Betrothed in a “portrait” style would be of an aged man with a short, rounded beard, holding one or more of the following: a budding rod, two turtle-doves, a scroll containing scripture verse such as Isaiah 7:14. To portray St Joseph holding the infant Christ in the manner of icons of the Mother of God is contrary to the teachings of the Orthodox Church regarding him, best expressed in the liturgical texts associated with him, and in the almost complete absence of historical icons of him portrayed in this way. It is safe to conclude that the appearance of images of St Joseph holding the Child are simply very recent adaptations of western religious art, and rendered in a stylised, geometric, “iconographic” style, rather than the more common “naturalism” normally associated with the west.

Fr Raphael Vereshack

23-08-2007, 03:31 PM

Very well done Olga. Thanks for putting all of this material together and presenting it to us.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Father David Moser

23-08-2007, 03:34 PM

Olga,

Thank you for this paper, it was quite enlightening.

As I read it, I began to compose some thoughts about the difference between the icons of the Virgin and of the righteous Joseph the Betrothed.

You make the point that in iconography, a person may be shown with the "tools of their trade" when those tools are relevant to their spiritual role. As I think about this more, it seems as though it is proper to depict a saint with the tools of their spiritual trade (which may or may not coincide with their earthly trade). Thus priest saints will often hold a blessing cross and bishop saints will hold the Gospel or perhaps a blessing cross. Martyrs are depicted with the cross as they took up the cross of Christ. The holy fathers and mothers may be shown with a scroll upon which we see written the words that they spoke. This is all a very consistent principle. Extending that to the Mother of God - we see her holding the "tool of her trade" - that is the incarnate God Whom she brought into the world. This was her role - her spiritual place - to be the Mother of God and thus it is only right, according to the noted principle, that she be thus depicted. St Joseph, on the other hand, has a different role - he is not "the father of God", in fact from the hymnography which you quoted it is clear that his role was never that of "father" or the "parent" of the Christ Child. Rather his role was that of the protector of the Virgin.

This is the second thought that I had upon reading is that the Virgin is always spoken of as the "Mother of God" and her primary relationship is to her divine/human son. Joseph, however, is always spoken of as "the Betrothed". He was not betrothed to Christ, but rather to the virgin. He is not so much the protector of the Christ Child but rather the protector of the Virgin. His primary relationship is not to the divine/human Child, but rather to the Virgin. Thus to depict him holding the Child is to completely ignore and distort his place in the Church. He is not the "father" of Christ, nor is he the "protector" of the Christ Child - but rather he is the "betrothed" and the "protector" of the Virgin. It is easy for us to think of him as the protector of the Child, but that was in fact not who he was - he was the protector of the Mother who was in turn the protector of the Child.

Anyway these were the thoughts that I had while reading your essay. Thank you again.

Fr David Moser

Matthew Panchisin

24-08-2007, 12:11 AM

Dear Olga,

Thank you for taking the time to help us understand the icon of Saint Joseph rightly.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

Olga

24-08-2007, 08:24 AM

You make the point that in iconography, a person may be shown with the "tools of their trade" when those tools are relevant to their spiritual role. As I think about this more, it seems as though it is proper to depict a saint with the tools of their spiritual trade (which may or may not coincide with their earthly trade). Thus priest saints will often hold a blessing cross and bishop saints will hold the Gospel or perhaps a blessing cross. Martyrs are depicted with the cross as they took up the cross of Christ. The holy fathers and mothers may be shown with a scroll upon which we see written the words that they spoke. This is all a very consistent principle. Extending that to the Mother of God - we see her holding the "tool of her trade" - that is the incarnate God Whom she brought into the world. This was her role - her spiritual place - to be the Mother of God and thus it is only right, according to the noted principle, that she be thus depicted. St Joseph, on the other hand, has a different role - he is not "the father of God", in fact from the hymnography which you quoted it is clear that his role was never that of "father" or the "parent" of the Christ Child. Rather his role was that of the protector of the Virgin.

This is the second thought that I had upon reading is that the Virgin is always spoken of as the "Mother of God" and her primary relationship is to her divine/human son. Joseph, however, is always spoken of as "the Betrothed". He was not betrothed to Christ, but rather to the virgin. He is not so much the protector of the Christ Child but rather the protector of the Virgin. His primary relationship is not to the divine/human Child, but rather to the Virgin. Thus to depict him holding the Child is to completely ignore and distort his place in the Church. He is not the "father" of Christ, nor is he the "protector" of the Christ Child - but rather he is the "betrothed" and the "protector" of the Virgin. It is easy for us to think of him as the protector of the Child, but that was in fact not who he was - he was the protector of the Mother who was in turn the protector of the Child.

Thank you, Fr David, for your pertinent and eloquent observations. The extrapolation of a saint's spiritual "tools of trade" to link the Mother of God holding Christ is an angle I had certainly not considered. Your second paragraph sums up the whole situation far more accurately and concisely than I ever could. May I "borrow" the above quote?

Florianos

24-08-2007, 03:52 PM

God bless!

References to non-Orthodox denominations are for reasons of comparison with Orthodox belief and practice, and are not intended to denigrate them or their beliefs. I also emphasise that the Orthodox church is not anti-western as such, it has simply not accepted doctrines or practices which are contrary to the mind of the Church.

Dear Olga, thank you for sharing your information with us! I know personally orthodox who deny traditional orthodox Teaching because it is,as they say, western influenced.There were even greek orthodox theologians who denied the assumption of the Theotokos only not to agree with the catholic dogma, some orthodox deny the old tradition of the toll houses because it could be similar to purgatory(in truth it is complete different and usually it is unknown in west) and many others.Also Elder Seraphim Rose wrote against some orthodox who find everywhere western influence but they do not see that this approach is mostly western influenced.

So i will try to give some answers, forgive that my reply will be incomplete and short.

1. Which icons exist in Orthodoxy which portray St Joseph?

v Nativity (and the related scene of the dream of Joseph) v Flight into Egypt v Meeting of the Lord More rarely: v As a conventional "portrait" icon, as for any other saint. v Along with Prophet King David and Apostle James the Brother of the Lord, being the "ancestors" of the Lord (feast celebrated the Sunday after the Nativity)There are much more icons protraying St. Joseph:

the chosing of St. Josephs rod in the temple ,the receiving back of the rod that sprouted 3 leaves,the receiving of the Theotokos, the icon of the betrophal, the Theotokos enters Josephs home,Joseph is departs for his trade of building,Josephs returning seeing her pregnant, the water of convinction, the appearance of an angel to joseph,the journey to Bethlehem,the enrollment of taxation,taking down of th Theotokos from the donkey, the nativity icon ,the circumcission of Christ,the meeting of our lord,the flight into agypt,the returing,Christ in the Temple in the age of 12, and many many more..

He is also less commonly shown accompanying the Virgin and Child in the Flight into Egypt icon. Joseph is seen following the donkey on which the Virgin and Child are riding, with his right hand raised in supplication. The donkey is being led along by a young man or a winged angel. It is only in much later versions that Joseph himself is seen leading the donkey, though he is still showing his deference with a raised hand.

The least common depiction of St Joseph is in the conventional frontal view, as would any saint be portrayed. Any examples of such a composition are contemporary, not ancient. He is shown holding a pair of turtle-doves, or sometimes a staff which has flowered with lilies. The latter imagery is derived from the Protoevangelion. He may also be holding a scroll, on which is the scripture passage of the prophecy of the Incarnation: “Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: behold, the Virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and His name shall be Emmanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14)Many ancient icons and frescos show St. Joseph the Betrophed with the christchild sitting on his shoulders( I have posted above) from the Decani Monastery (14th cent),Kariye Djami (early 14th cent), I think there is no western influence in these mosaics and frescos?

3. What of other portrayals of St Joseph? There is a recent phenomenon of non-Orthodox denominations adopting an “iconographic” style when producing their religious art. This has led to works which might appear to be icons in terms of the artistic style used, but which are doctrinally and theologically problematic from an Orthodox perspective. These include: v St Joseph with the Christ-child in the composition style of Mother of God of Kazan v St Joseph holding the young Christ as would His mother (there are examples in the Odighitria and Eleousa composition, and even in the Pelagonitissa form, where the Child is in a more playful pose v St Joseph, the Virgin and Christ depicted as the Holy Family. In many such cases, Joseph is shown as a young man with dark hair and beard. The justification for this is the great emphasis placed by the Roman Catholic church, and some other western denominations, on the veneration of St Joseph as the foster-father and guardian of young Jesus, and protector of the Virgin. This is a comparatively recent development, arising largely in the 16th century through the efforts of St Theresa of Avila, who showed great devotion to this saint. More recently, through the influence of social justice principles on western devotion and theology, as well as a general “humanising” of holy persons to make them more “easy to relate to” has led to the appearance of such images as St Joseph holding the Christ-child. The Roman Catholic feast of St Joseph the Worker was instituted early in the 20th century. The feast day of May 1st was chosen to counteract the socialist/communist workers’ holiday held on the same day. Much western religious art shows saints with an item of their tools of trade.I see you first explain what catholics believe and perhaps where such believe came from and than you consider that this can not be orthodox??

The Orthodox view is that a saint’s earthly occupation is only relevant when there is a theological or doctrinal meaning behind it. It is the same with Joseph, as much as with the other carpenter-saints known to us, such as Apostle Thomas.But when we speak about St. Joseph as the Carpenter there is a theologic and doctrinal meaning behind it.( I also posted above)!

It is a part of Christs kenosis that he lived in a home of an poor carpenter and that he need a guard, a nuturer, a protector, some traditions say that also Christ followed St. Joseph and also was a carpenter.With the little money Joseph earned the Theotkos and Christ were supported.So he worked for the Theotokos and Christs need, they lived in his house. I think the title - the Betrophed - describe his role in the economy better than- the Carpenter.

In Christ

Florianos

24-08-2007, 08:07 PM

Florianos

24-08-2007, 08:14 PM

God bless!

10. Did not Joseph spend more time than anyone else with Jesus (other than His mother)? Would not Joseph have held, caressed, shown love and affection to this Child?

St Joseph may have, or may not have, physically touched, even held and embraced the divine Child during his life. Church Tradition is silent on this, and, as illustrated by the liturgical texts, doesn’t seem to be of importance in how the Orthodox Church regards St Joseph. Iconography is not about “pious custom” or “what feels right”, or even “social justice”, such as the notion that Joseph can be an inspiration to fatherless children. Iconography is about theology and doctrine, of expressing the Mysteries, the things of God which cannot be fully known and comprehended by feeble human minds. The Mystery of the Incarnation is best expressed in icons of the Annunciation, and of the Mother of God with her Child. What is the equivalent theological premise which allows St Joseph to be placed on an equal level with the Mother of God?

11. Conclusion

The proper iconographic portrayal of St Joseph the Betrothed in a “portrait” style would be of an aged man with a short, rounded beard, holding one or more of the following: a budding rod, two turtle-doves, a scroll containing scripture verse such as Isaiah 7:14. To portray St Joseph holding the infant Christ in the manner of icons of the Mother of God is contrary to the teachings of the Orthodox Church regarding him, best expressed in the liturgical texts associated with him, and in the almost complete absence of historical icons of him portrayed in this way. It is safe to conclude that the appearance of images of St Joseph holding the Child are simply very recent adaptations of western religious art, and rendered in a stylised, geometric, “iconographic” style, rather than the more common “naturalism” normally associated with the west.

Church Tradition is not silent about this, I have quoted some writings of the church fathers and service texts!

Like I have written, to show St. Joseph with the Christchild is not a pious custom or something else but it should be clear that it shows the relation between Christ and his Step-Father. He was not a Saint like others he was chosen by God to play a part in the earthly life of Christ. This is the most important role in St. Joseph`s life, we can write about his righteousness and his great sanctity or his work as a carpenter but this is secondary.
He was the Betrophed of the Theotokos and the (Father) of the Godchild?
We call St. James the Brother of the Lord? Why? He was not really his Brother, only because of St. Joseph, who became the Stepfather and his children the Step -Brothers and Step -Sisters.
He was not only the protector of the Theotokos: let us look what the Gospel says:

From Matthew:

1:16. And Jacob begot Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm) the husband of Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm), of whom was born Jesus (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm), who is called Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10212c.htm)

1:18. Now the generation (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06412c.htm) of Christ (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) was in this wise. When as his mother Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm) was espoused to Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm).

1:19. Whereupon Joseph her husband (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), being a just (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08571c.htm)man (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09580c.htm), and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05054c.htm) privately.

1:20. But while he thought on these things, behold the Angel of the Lord (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm) appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), son of David (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04642b.htm), fear not to take unto thee Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm) thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm).

1:21. And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10675a.htm)Jesus (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374x.htm). For he shall save his people from their sins (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14004b.htm).

Here the scripture says YOU SHALT CALL……., St. Joseph should give him this name (like a father)!!

1:24. And Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm) rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm) had commanded him, and took unto him his wife.

1:25. And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06081a.htm): and he called his name (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10675a.htm)Jesus (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374x.htm).

Here again the scripture says : AND HE CALLED HIS NAME.
2:13. And after they were departed, behold an angel of the Lord (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm) appeared in sleep (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05154a.htm) to Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), saying: Arise, and take the child and his mother, and fly into Egypt (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05329b.htm): and be there until I shall tell thee. For it will come to pass that Herod (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07289c.htm) will seek the child to destroy (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07441a.htm) him.

The scripture says take the CHILD AND HIS MOTHER ( child was written first, so we see St. Joseph was his guard and protector.
2:14. Who arose, and took the child and his mother by night, and retired into Egypt (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05329b.htm): and he was there until the death of Herod (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07289c.htm):

Again HE took the CHILD and his mother.

2:19. But when Herod (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07289c.htm) was dead, behold an angel of the Lord (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm) appeared in sleep (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05154a.htm) to Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm) in Egypt (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05329b.htm),
2:20. Saying: Arise, and take the child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08193a.htm). For they are dead that sought the life of the child.

Again, first the child , I think this means that St. Joseph had to protect the Child and of course the Theotokos but not her alone!

2:21. Who arose, and took the child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08193a.htm).
2:22. But hearing that Archelaus reigned in Judea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08544a.htm) in the room of Herod (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07289c.htm) his father, he was afraid to go thither: and being warned in sleep (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05154a.htm) retired into the quarters of Galilee (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06341c.htm).

2:23. And coming he dwelt in a city called Nazareth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10725a.htm): that it might be fulfilled which was said by the prophets (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12477a.htm): That he shall be called a Nazarene (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10724b.htm).

It was St. Josephs house were they lived, in Nazareth.

13:55. Is not this the carpenter's (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm) son? Is not his mother called Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm), and his brethren (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm) James (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08280a.htm), and Joseph, and Simon (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13796b.htm), and Jude (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08542b.htm):

Mark:

6:3. Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm) of James (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08280a.htm), and Joseph, and Jude (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08542b.htm), and Simon? are not also his sisters (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02767a.htm) here with us? And they were scandalized (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13506d.htm) in regard of him.( Christ the Carpenter)

Luke:

1:27. To a virgin espoused to a man (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09580c.htm) whose name (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10675a.htm) was Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), of the house of David (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04642b.htm): and the virgin's name (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10675a.htm) was Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm).

2:4. And Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm) also went up from Galilee (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06341c.htm), out of the city of Nazareth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10725a.htm), into Judea (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08544a.htm), to the city of David (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04642b.htm), which is called Bethlehem (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02533a.htm): because he was of the house and family (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05782a.htm) of David (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04642b.htm).

2:5. To be enrolled with Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm) his espoused wife, who was with child.

2:16. And they came with haste: and they found Mary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm) and Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), and the infant (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) lying in the manger (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04488c.htm). Mary and Joseph,( he was near the manger)

2:21. And after eight days were accomplished, that the child should be circumcised (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03777a.htm), his name (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10675a.htm) was called JESUS, which was called by the angel (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm) before he was conceived in the womb.

2:22. And after the days of her purification, according to the law of Moses (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10582c.htm), were accomplished, they carried him to Jerusalem (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08344a.htm), to present him to the Lord:(plural)

2:24. And to offer a sacrifice (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13309a.htm), according as it is written in the law of the Lord, a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons

2:33. And his father and mother were wondering at those things which were spoken concerning him. ( Why is Joseph mentioned first)

2:34. And Simeon (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13794c.htm)blessed (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02599b.htm) and said to Mary his mother: Behold this child is set for the fall and for the resurrection of many in Israel (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08193a.htm) and for a sign which shall be contradicted.

2:39. And after they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06341c.htm), to their city Nazareth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10725a.htm).

2:41. And his parents went every year to Jerusalem (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08344a.htm), at the solemn day of the pasch (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11512b.htm).

2:42. And when he was twelve years old, they going up into Jerusalem (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08344a.htm), according to the custom of the feast,

2:43. And having fulfilled the days, when they returned, the child Jesus (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) remained in Jerusalem (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08344a.htm). And his parents knew (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08673a.htm) it not.

2:44. And thinking that he was in the company, they came a day's journey and sought him among their kinsfolks and acquaintance.

2:45. And not finding him, they returned into Jerusalem (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08344a.htm), seeking him.

2:46. And it came to pass, that, after three days, they found him in the temple (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14499a.htm), sitting in the midst of the doctors, hearing them and asking them questions.

2:48. And seeing him, they wondered. And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so to us? Behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

2:49. And he said to them: How is it that you sought me? Did you not know (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08673a.htm) that I must be about my father's business?

2:50. And they understood not the word that he spoke unto them.

2:51. And he went down with them and came to Nazareth (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10725a.htm) and was subject to them. And his mother kept all these words in her heart.

3:23. And Jesus (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08374c.htm) himself was beginning about the age of thirty years: being (as it was supposed) the son of Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm), who was of Heli (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07204b.htm), who was of Mathat,

4:22. And all gave testimony to him. And they wondered at the words of grace (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689a.htm) that proceeded from his mouth. And they said: Is not this the son of Joseph (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08504a.htm)?

So I think everyone can see that St. Joseph was not only the Protector of the Theotokos but also of the Godchild. He often is called Father and Parent.
The Scripture often uses the plural to show us the familiarity. And HE was SUBJECT TO THEM???
And also the church Fathers wrote about It:

St. John Chrysostom in the 4th Homily to Matthew:

Who has heard, who has seen any such thing ever come to pass?"—or lest you should suspect the disciple (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05029a.htm) as inventing these things to favor his Master;—he introduces Joseph as contributing, by what he underwent, to the proof (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12454c.htm) of the things mentioned; and by his narrative all but says, "If thou doubt (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05141a.htm) me, and if thou suspect my testimony, believe (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02408b.htm) her husband." For "Joseph," says he, "her husband, being a just man." By "a just man" in this place he means him that is virtuous (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15472a.htm) in all things. For both freedom from covetousness (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04462a.htm) is justice (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08571c.htm), and universal virtue (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15472a.htm) is also justice (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08571c.htm);and it is mostly in this latter sense that the Scripture (http://www.newadvent.org/bible) uses the name of justice (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08571c.htm); as when it says, "a man that was just and true (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15073a.htm);" Job 1:1 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/job001.htm#1) and again, "they were both just." Luke 1:6 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/luk001.htm#6) Being then "just," that is good (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06636b.htm) and considerate, "he was minded to put her away privily." For this intent he tells what took place before Joseph's being fully informed, that you might not mistrust what was done after he knew (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08673a.htm). However, such a one was not liable to be made a public example only, but that she should also be punished was the command of the law. Whereas Joseph remitted not only that greater punishment, but the less likewise, namely, the disgrace. For so far from punishing, he was not minded even to make an example of her. Do you see a man under self-restraint, and freed from the most tyrannical of passions (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11534a.htm). For you know (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08673a.htm) how great a thing jealousy is: and therefore He said, to whom these things are clearly known (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08673a.htm), "For full of jealousy is the rage of a husband;"

But in this case it was not so little as suspicion, the burden of the womb entirely convicting her. But nevertheless he was so free from passion as to be unwilling to grieve the Virgin even in the least matters. Thus, whereas to keep her in his house seemed like a transgression of the law, but to expose and bring her to trial would constrain him to deliver her to die; he does none of these things, but conducts himself now by a higher rule than the law. For grace (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06689a.htm) having come, there must needs henceforth be many tokens of that exalted citizenship. For as the sun, though as yet he show not his beams, does from afar by his light illumine more than halfthe world; so likewise Christ, when about to rise from that womb, even before He came forth, shone over all the world. Wherefore, even before her travail, prophets (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12477a.htm) danced for joy (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07131b.htm), and women (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15687b.htm) foretold what was to come, and John, when he had not yet come forth from the belly, leaped from the very womb. Hence also this man exhibited great self-command, in that he neither accused nor upbraided, but only set about putting her away.

Or rather, not by things past only, but like wise by things to come, he wins him over. "And she shall bring forth," says he, "a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus." Matthew 1:21 (http://www.newadvent.org/bible/mat001.htm#21) "For do not thou, because He is of the Holy Ghost (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07409a.htm), imagine (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07672a.htm) that you are an alien to the ministry of this dispensation. Since although in the birth you have no part, but the Virgin abode untouched, nevertheless, what pertains to a father, not injuring the honor (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07462a.htm) of virginity (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15458a.htm), that do I give you, to set a Name on that which is born: for "you shall call Him." For though the offspring be not yours, yet shall you exhibit a father's care towards Him. Wherefore I do straightway, even from the giving of the name, connect you with Him that is born."
Then lest on the other hand any one should from this suspect him to be the father, hear what follows, with what exact care he states it. "She shall bring forth," he says, "a Son:" he does not say, "bring forth to you," but merely "she shall bring forth," putting it indefinitely: since not to him did she bring forth, but to the whole world.
13. For this cause (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03459a.htm) too the angel (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm) came bringing His name from Heaven (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm), hereby again intimating that this is a wondrous birth: it being God Himself who sends the name from above by the angel (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01476d.htm) to Joseph.

In this homily we can see that St. Joseph was not only the protector! Though he took no part in the incarnation of Christ, nevertheless, he was chosen to be the Betrophed of the Theotokos and to be called the Father of the Lord. He fulfilled all the duties of a Father towards a son. He called his name Jesus , had him circumcised and paid the redemption for the firstborn, fled with the divine infant and His Mother into Egypt, and then chose their place of residence to be Nazareth. In Nazareth St. Joseph resumed his trade of carpentry, earning his living and that of the Theotokos and Christ by the work of his hand. And the Lord himself worked along side His Foster Father as a carpenter.

I also can quote St. Ephaim and I will try to present soon a little of the Service to St. Joseph.

In CHRIST

Florianos

25-08-2007, 03:11 PM

Olga,
As I read it, I began to compose some thoughts about the difference between the icons of the Virgin and of the righteous Joseph the Betrothed.

You make the point that in iconography, a person may be shown with the "tools of their trade" when those tools are relevant to their spiritual role. As I think about this more, it seems as though it is proper to depict a saint with the tools of their spiritual trade (which may or may not coincide with their earthly trade). Thus priest saints will often hold a blessing cross and bishop saints will hold the Gospel or perhaps a blessing cross. Martyrs are depicted with the cross as they took up the cross of Christ. The holy fathers and mothers may be shown with a scroll upon which we see written the words that they spoke. This is all a very consistent principle. Extending that to the Mother of God - we see her holding the "tool of her trade" - that is the incarnate God Whom she brought into the world. This was her role - her spiritual place - to be the Mother of God and thus it is only right, according to the noted principle, that she be thus depicted. St Joseph, on the other hand, has a different role - he is not "the father of God", in fact from the hymnography which you quoted it is clear that his role was never that of "father" or the "parent" of the Christ Child. Rather his role was that of the protector of the Virgin.

This is the second thought that I had upon reading is that the Virgin is always spoken of as the "Mother of God" and her primary relationship is to her divine/human son. Joseph, however, is always spoken of as "the Betrothed". He was not betrothed to Christ, but rather to the virgin. He is not so much the protector of the Christ Child but rather the protector of the Virgin. His primary relationship is not to the divine/human Child, but rather to the Virgin. Thus to depict him holding the Child is to completely ignore and distort his place in the Church. He is not the "father" of Christ, nor is he the "protector" of the Christ Child - but rather he is the "betrothed" and the "protector" of the Virgin. It is easy for us to think of him as the protector of the Child, but that was in fact not who he was - he was the protector of the Mother who was in turn the protector of the Child.

I think I have posted enouph to show that St. Joseph was not an impersonal protector of the Theotokos and the Godchild but that he shared a very familiar relation with both!
The Tool of St. Joseph was the Godchild, to protect, guard , feed, support,
lead and also educate Him(in his old was the most important TOOL in his life.
Of course he is not his biological father, the flesh Christ took on was only the Virgins flesh,Christ was the fruit of Her womb and no one else!

Florianos

25-08-2007, 03:25 PM

God bless!
Some excerpts from St. Ephraims writings:

……The sea when it bore Him was still and calmed, and how came the lap of Joseph to bear Him?
….Joseph caressed the Son as a Babe; he ministered to Him as God. He rejoiced in Him as in the Good One, and he was awe-struck at Him as the Just One, greatly bewildered.
"Who has given me the Son of the Most High to be a Son to me? I was jealous of Your Mother, and I thought to put her away, and I knew not that in her womb was hidden a mighty treasure, that should suddenly enrich my poor estate. David the king sprang of my race, and wore the crown: and I have come to a very low estate, who instead of a king am a carpenter. Yet a crown has come to me, for in my bosom is the Lord of crowns!"
Glory to Him Who became lowly, though lofty He was by His nature!—He became in His love the firstborn of Mary, Firstborn though He be of Godhead.—He became in name the offspring of Joseph, offspring though He be of the Most High.—He became by His own Will man, God though He be by His Nature.—Glorified be Your Will and Your Nature! My mouth knows not how I shall call You, O You Child of the Living One: for to venture to call You as the Child of Joseph, I tremble, since You are not his seed: and I am fearful of denying the name of him to whom they have betrothed me.

And from the apocryph, St. Joseph the carpenter from the 4th cent.:

…….Mary I called my mother, and Joseph father, and I obeyed them in all that they said; nor did I ever contend against them, but complied with their commands, as other men whom earth produces are wont to do; nor did I at any time arouse their anger, or give any word or answer in opposition to them. On the contrary, I cherished them with great love, like the pupil of my eye.

….. These are the words spoken by Joseph, that righteous old man. And I, going in beside him, found his soul exceedingly troubled, for he was placed in great perplexity. And I said to him: Hail! my father Joseph, you righteous man; how is it with you? And he answered me: All hail! my well-beloved son. Indeed, the agony and fear of death have already environed me; but as soon as I heard Your voice, my soul was at rest. O Jesus of Nazareth! Jesus, my Saviour! Jesus, the deliverer of my soul! Jesus, my protector! Jesus! O sweetest name in my mouth, and in the mouth of all those that love it! O eye which seest, and ear which hearest, hear me! I am Your servant; this day I most humbly reverence You, and before Your face I pour out my tears. You are altogether my God; You are my Lord, as the angel has told me times without number, and especially on that day when my soul was driven about with perverse thoughts about the pure and blessed Mary, who was carrying You in her womb, and whom I was thinking of secretly sending away. And while I was thus meditating, behold, there appeared to me in my rest angels of the Lord, saying to me in a wonderful mystery: O Joseph, you son of David, fear not to take Mary as your wife; and do not grieve your soul, nor speak unbecoming words of her conception, because she is with child of the Holy Spirit, and shall bring forth a son, whose name shall be called Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins. Do not for this cause wish me evil, O Lord! for I was ignorant of the mystery of Your birth. I call to mind also, my Lord, that day when the boy died of the bite of the serpent. And his relations wished to deliver You to Herod, saying that You had killed him; but You raised him from the dead, and restore him to them. Then I went up to You, and took hold of Your hand, saying: My son, take care of yourself. But Thou said to me in reply: Are you not my father after the flesh? I shall teach you who I am. Now therefore, O Lord and my God, do not be angry with me, or condemn me on account of that hour. I am Your servant, and the son of Your handmaiden; but You are my Lord, my God and Saviour, most surely the Son of God

….. My undefiled mother Mary, therefore, went and entered the place where Joseph was. And I was sitting at his feet looking at him, for the signs of death already appeared in his countenance. And that blessed old man raised his head, and kept his eyes fixed on my face; but he had no power of speaking to me, on account of the agonies of death, which held him in their grasp. But he kept fetching many sighs. And I held his hands for a whole hour; and he turned his face to me, and made signs for me not to leave him. Thereafter I put my hand upon his breast, and perceived his soul now near his throat, preparing to depart from its receptacle

…..And, indeed, the inhabitants of Nazareth and of Galilee, having heard of their lamentation, flocked to them, and wept from the third hour even to the ninth. And at the ninth hour they all went together to Joseph's bed. And they lifted his body, after they had anointed it with costly unguents. But I entreated my Father in the prayer of the celestials—that same prayer which with my own hand I made before I was carried in the womb of the virgin Mary, my mother. And as soon as I had finished it, and pronounced the amen, a great multitude of angels came up; and I ordered two of them to stretch out their shining garments, and to wrap in them the body of Joseph, the blessed old man.

…. And I spoke to Joseph, and said: The smell or corruption of death shall not have dominion over you, nor shall a worm ever come forth from your body. Not a single limb of it shall be broken, nor shall any hair on your head be changed. Nothing of your body shall perish, O my father Joseph, but it will remain entire and uncorrupted even until the banquet of the thousand years. And whosoever shall make an offering on the day of your remembrance, him will I bless and recompense in the congregation of the virgins; and whosoever shall give food to the wretched, the poor, the widows, and orphans from the work of his hands, on the day on which your memory shall be celebrated, and in your name, shall not be in want of goodthings all the days of his life. And whosoever shall have given a cup of water, or of wine, to drink to the widow or orphan in your name, I will give him to you, that you may go in with him to the banquet of the thousand years. And every man who shall present an offering on the day of your commemoration will I bless and recompense in the church of the virgins: for one I will render unto him thirty, sixty, and a hundred. And whosoever shall write the history of your life, of your labour, and your departure from this world, and this narrative that has issued from my mouth, him shall I commit to your keeping as long as he shall have to do with this life. And when his soul departs from the body, and when he must leave this world, I will burn the book of his sins, nor will I torment him with any punishment in the day of judgment; but he shall cross the sea of flames, and shall go through it without trouble or pain. And upon every poor man who can give none of those things which I have mentioned this is incumbent: viz., if a son is born to him, he shall call his name Joseph. So there shall not take place in that house either poverty or any sudden death for ever.

…….Thereafter the chief men of the city came together to the place where the body of the blessed old man Joseph had been laid, bringing with them burial-clothes; and they wished to wrap it up in them after the manner in which the Jews are wont to arrange their dead bodies. And they perceived that he kept his shroud fast; for it adhered to the body in such a way, that when they wished to take it off, it was found to be like iron—impossible to be moved or loosened. Nor could they find any ends in that piece of linen, which struck them with the greatest astonishment. At length they carried him out to a place where there was a cave, and opened the gate, that they might bury his body beside the bodies of his fathers. Then there came into my mind the day on which he walked with me into Egypt, and that extreme trouble which he endured on my account. Accordingly, I bewailed his death for a long time; and lying upon his body.

……. Having thus spoken, I embraced the body of my father Joseph, and wept over it; and they opened the door of the tomb, and placed his body in it, near the body of his father Jacob. And at the time when he fell asleep he had fulfilled a hundred and eleven years. Never did a tooth in his mouth hurt him, nor was his eyesight rendered less sharp, nor his body bent, nor his strength impaired; but he worked at his trade of a carpenter to the very last day of his life; and that was the six-and-twentieth of the month Abib.

……For truly they dwell in the habitation of the righteous even to the present day, nor have their bodies seen corruption. Yet that old man Joseph the carpenter was, nevertheless, Your father after the flesh. And You have ordered us to go into all the world and preach the holy Gospel; and You have said: Relate to them the death of my father Joseph, and celebrate to him with annual solemnity a festival and sacred day. And whosoever shall take anything away from this narrative, or add anything to it, commits sin. Revelation 22:18-19 We wonder especially that Joseph, even from that day on which You were born in Bethlehem, called You his son after the flesh. Wherefore, then, did You not make him immortal as well as them, and You say that he was righteous and chosen?

In Christ

Olga

27-08-2007, 05:57 AM

Dear Alexander

Your devotion to St Joseph, and your enthusiastic defence of him are admirable. Unfortunately, you seem to have missed the point of much of what I have written.

1. At no point have I said or suggested that St Joseph cannot be venerated as a saint or portrayed in icons, but that there are right ways and wrong ways to portray him.

2. Iconography is based on Holy Tradition, which includes Scripture, the teachings of the Apostles and Fathers, which are accepted by the whole Church. These teachings are best expressed in the liturgical services of the Church. The content and composition of any icon must be completely compatible with the teachings of the Church, and correctly express the truths of the faith. At no point in the hymnody (liturgical text) of any of the services associated with St Joseph does the Church teach anything other than what I have pointed out in my earlier posts.

3. The motif of the young Christ being carried on the shoulders of Joseph has a very different meaning to the holding of the Child by His mother in her icons. There are also only a very few old or ancient icons of the Flight into Egypt which show the Child sitting on Joseph’s shoulders. The vast majority show the Child held by His mother, or sitting with His mother on the donkey, with Joseph walking behind the donkey, or, in some cases, leading the donkey. In all cases, the humility and deference of Joseph to the Virgin and her Child is clearly expressed by Joseph’s posture and gesture.

4. Iconography and hymnody are not about “What do I think and feel about this saint or feast?”, but “What does the Church teach about this saint or feast?” A painter of conventional art, be it religious or secular, is free to be creative and to paint what and however he likes. By contrast, an iconographer is not a free agent to do as he pleases, but is in service to the Church, and must work within what the Church teaches and believes.

You wrote:

To know more about St. Joseph the Betrophed it would be better to study the text for his feast of Elder Gerasimos of Mount athos (http://monachos.net/library/Orthodox_Dictionary#Athos) wich he wrote on the request of Elder Sabbas of Kalymnos( I think these two great Elders of our time are trustwothy witnessers of correct orthodoxy).

My friend, you may not realise that you are treading on very dangerous ground here. This service to St Joseph written by Elder Gerasimos is not the one which is used by the Orthodox Church as a whole, or even at a local level. It is not the service used by the Church of Greece, the Church of Russia, or anywhere else in the Orthodox world. It therefore cannot represent the accepted universal teaching of the Church. A new service text, be it in honour of a newly-glorified saint, or a new service written for an existing saint or feast, MUST be examined by the Church as a whole, or, at the very least, by a local Synod. The Synod will then determine whether the new service conforms with the established teachings of the Church. If it does not, then it cannot be accepted as canonical liturgical material. Elders Gerasimos and Sabbas may well be good and holy men, but the holiness (real or perceived) of one or two individuals does not automatically bestow canonical status to a liturgical service written by them. It may have been written as a devotional exercise, but this does not make it part of the liturgical canon.

Olga

27-08-2007, 05:59 AM

You also wrote:

The writings of the Church say much about St. Joseph and his relation to Christ. But the service texts you quoted are more concentrated on the Nativity and the things followed in wich of course St. Joseph played an important role!

The feasts with which St Joseph is, or may be associated, are:

The Circumcision of the Lord (January 1)
The Meeting of the Lord (February 2)
Midpentecost
The services of the Nativity Fast from November 17 to December 24
Sunday of the Forefathers (First Sunday before the Nativity of the Lord)
Forefeast of the Nativity
Nativity of the Lord (December 25)
Sunday after the Nativity (commemoration of Prophet David, Joseph the Betrothed and James the Brother of the Lord).

In my previous post # 24 on this thread, I have provided the verses which mention St Joseph from the Sunday after the Nativity. Below are all the verses concerning St Joseph from all the other feasts on this list:

Circumcision of the Lord: Matins, ode 5 from the Canon for St Basil the Great:

Neither Moses the giver of the Law, nor Joseph before the Law was a distributor of nourishment like you; for you, Basil, were revealed as host at the banquet of God’s flesh.

Meeting of the Lord: Vespers, Apostikhon:

He who rides on the Cherubim and is hymned by the Seraphim is being brought today into God’s Temple according to the Law and enthroned on aged arms. By Joseph he receives gifts befitting God: the unblemished Church as a pair of turtle doves and the newly chosen people of the nations; as Author of the Old and New Covenants, two young pigeons. Symeon, having received the fulfilment of the oracle concerning him, blessed Mary, the Virgin Mother of God, and foretold the symbols of the Passion of the One born from her. From Him he asks for his release, crying out, ‘Now release me, Master, as You promised me; for I have seen You, the pre-eternal light, Saviour and Lord of the people that bears Christ’s name.’

(Please note again that this is the only verse in this feast which mentions Joseph, and compare this to the more than thirty verses which describe Righteous Symeon holding the Child, an event of great mystical and theological significance.)

Midpentecost:

I do not have the texts for this feast in English, only in Slavonic and Greek. However, there is no mention at all of St Joseph in the hymnody. Rather, it is full of references to Christ as the Wisdom and Word of God. Interestingly, the Gospel reading for the liturgy of the feast is not, as one would expect, from the second chapter of Luke, which describes the incident of the young Jesus’ disappearance in Jerusalem, and His being found preaching in the Temple, but John 7:14-30.

Nativity Fast services:

November 30: Vespers, Apostikhon:

Joseph, tell us: how are you bringing the Maiden you received from the Holy Place, to Bethlehem great with child? ‘I, he said, having searched the Prophets and been told by an Angel, am assured that Mary will give birth to God in a way past explanation; Magi will come from the East to worship Him, adoring Him with precious gifts.’ Lord, incarnate for our sake, glory to You.

Sunday of the Forefathers: Matins, Synaxarion:

On the same day, the Sunday before Christ’s Nativity, we have been ordered by our holy and Godbearing Fathers to keep the commemoration of all those who have been well-pleasing to God since time began, from Adam right down to Joseph the Betrothed of the All-holy Mother of God, according to the genealogy, as the Evangelist Luke has accurately numbered them; and likewise of the Prophets and Prophetesses.

Commemoration of Joseph the Betrothed, Jacob’s son.
To Joseph, the Betrothed, the Spirit shows
That his betrothed, before they wed, conceives.

December 20, Forefeast of the Nativity:

Vespers, prosomion:

Peoples, let us celebrate the forefeast of the Nativity of Christ; and raising our minds, let us be taken up in spirit to Bethlehem, and let us contemplate with spiritual thoughts the Virgin, who hastens to give birth in a Cave to the Lord of all things and our God. Joseph, as he contemplated the greatness of the wonders, seemed to see a human, wrapped in swaddling clothes like an infant; while he understood from the things that came to pass that He was the true God, who grants our souls His great mercy.

December 22:

Matins, Sessional Hymn after the second reading from the Psalter:

Joseph the righteous, as he hymned the Virgin who bore the pre-eternal Word, cried out: I see you, who has become the Temple of the Lord, bearing the One who has come to save all mortals, and who shows those who praise Him to be temples through Divine compassion.

Matins, Apostikhon following the Praises:

‘Do not be downcast, Joseph, when you see my womb. For you will see what is born of me and you will rejoice and worship Him as God’, said the Mother of God to her own betrothed, as she was about to give birth to Christ. Let us sing her praise, as we say, ‘Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you; and through you, with us’.

From the Royal Hours prior to the Nativity

From the First Hour:

Mary once with aged Joseph went to be enrolled in Bethlehem, for he was of David’s line; and she bore in her womb fruit unknown; the time for the birth was at hand, and there was no room in the inn; but the Cave proved a fair palace for the Queen. Christ is born, to raise up his image that had fallen. (This hymn is also sung during the Third, Sixth and Ninth Hours.)

Joseph spoke thus to the Virgin, ‘Mary, what is this doing that I see in you? I am at a loss and am amazed, and my mind is struck with dismay. Go quickly from me then and secretly. Mary, what is this doing that I see in you? Instead of honour, you have brought me shame; instead of gladness, sorrow; instead of praise, reproof. No longer will I bear men’s reproach; for I you took from the Priests in the Temple as one blameless before the Lord; and what is this sight?’

From the Third Hour:

Joseph, tell us: how are you bringing the Maiden you received from the Holy Place, to Bethlehem great with child? ‘I, he said, having searched the Prophets and been told by an Angel, am assured that Mary will give birth to God in a way past explanation; Magi will come from the East to worship Him, adoring Him with precious gifts.’ Lord, incarnate for our sake, glory to You. (the same apostikhon from November 30)

From the Sixth Hour:

Come, peoples, bearers of Christ, let us behold a wonder that amazes and holds fast every mind, and as we devoutly worship, let us with faith sing its praise. Today a Maiden great with child is coming to Bethlehem to give birth to the Lord; choirs of Angels run before her. And seeing this, Joseph, the Betrothed, cries out, ‘What is the strange mystery in you, O Virgin? And how will you bring forth a child, Calf who has never known the yoke?’

From the Ninth Hour:

When Joseph had been wounded by sorrow, O Virgin, as he went to Bethlehem you cried out to him, ‘Why are you downcast and troubled, seeing me great with child? Why wholly ignorant of the dread mystery that is in me? Now cast away every fear as you understand the strange marvel: for in my womb now God descends to earth through mercy, and has taken flesh. You will see when He is born, as He has been well pleased; and filled with joy you will worship Him as your Creator. Him the Angels praise unceasingly with the Father and the Holy Spirit.’

December 24: Vespers, Apostikhon:

O peoples, let us celebrate the Eve of Christ’s Nativity; and, raising our minds on high, let us go up in spirit to Bethlehem; and with the eyes of the soul let us look on the Virgin as she hastens to give birth in a Cave to our God, the Lord of all things. Joseph, when he looked on the greatness of His wonders, thought that what he saw was a mortal, wrapped in swaddling clothes as a babe; but from all that came to pass he understood that it was the true God, who grants our souls His great mercy.

Nativity of the Lord:
Joseph is only mentioned in the Gospel reading at Matins. There is no mention of him in any of the verses elsewhere in the Vigil.

I have posted this additional liturgical material to show that all these texts are consistent in tone and content to those I posted in #24. Fr David expresses the proper regard of St Joseph by the Orthodox Church very well in his post #27.

Olga

27-08-2007, 06:01 AM

I had originally omitted the following material from the first series of posts, however, it appears that including it may help to clarify matters. Here’s some more food for thought:

Below is the last apostikhon sung before the close of the service of Great Friday Vespers, which commemorates the Deposition from the Cross:

When Joseph with Nicodemus took You down from the Tree, You who is clothed with light as a garment, and saw You as a corpse, naked, unburied, he was filled with compassion. Raising a lament, he grieved and said, ‘Alas, sweetest Jesus, when a little while ago the sun saw You hanging on the Cross, it wrapped itself in gloom, and the earth quaked with fear, and the veil of the temple was torn in two; but behold, I now look upon You, who for me has willingly undergone death; how shall I bury You, my God? Or how shall I wrap You in shrouds; with what hands shall I touch Your immaculate body? Or what songs shall I sing at Your departure? I magnify Your sufferings and I hymn Your burial, with Your resurrection, as I cry: Lord, glory to You.’

Here, another saintly Joseph grapples with the dilemma of the need to physically touch the Lord’s body in order to perform the normal burial rites, yet, knowing that the Lord is God Incarnate, is utterly aware of his own imperfect humanity and unworthiness to do so, not unlike St John the Baptist:

Seeing You, O Christ our God, draw near to Him in the River Jordan, John said: “Why have You, who has no defilement, come to Your servant, O Lord? In whose name shall I baptise You? Of the Father? But You bear Him in Yourself. Of the Son? But You are Yourself this Son made flesh. Of the Holy Spirit? But You know that through Your own mouth You give Him to the faithful? O God who has appeared, have mercy on us. (Vespers apostikhon, Theophany)

Who has ever seen the sun, that is bright by nature, being cleansed? the Preacher cried. How, then, shall I wash You in the waters, You who is the Brightness of the Glory, the Image of the everlasting Father? How shall I, I that am grass, touch with my hand the fire of Your divinity? For You are Christ, the wisdom and the power of God. (Matins, ode 4, first Canon of Theophany)

How could, then, Joseph of Arimathea bring himself, with hands of mere clay, to touch the perfect and divine body of God the Son, even if that body was lifeless? Joseph eloquently and movingly proclaims the divinity of Christ in this apostikhon, therefore it is not at all surprising that he is awestruck at the thought of physically handling the body of Jesus, of touching God Incarnate.

Of course, in earthly reality, as the Baptist did as he was asked by the Lord at His baptism, Joseph of Arimathea would have had to physically handle the body of Jesus in order to bury Him. Nicodemus, Apostle John, and the women who were present at the Crucifixion would have done likewise, but the point is this: Those who knew, or came to understand, that the man Jesus was God Incarnate, would feel the same way. The unnamed woman who suffered from haemorrhages certainly did: "If only I could touch His garment, I would be cured." And when Jesus asked "Who touched Me?", despite the throngs of people who were pressing up against Him, the woman fell to the ground before Him, sobbing and distressed, not only from relief that she had been healed from a terrible and shameful illness, but because she had dared to touch the Son of God in faith.

To many western eyes, it seems to them that Joseph is given short shrift by the Orthodox, given the much higher profile he has in the west. It is impossible to believe that the Holy Fathers of the patristic period would not have considered the status and significance of Joseph, given that they were closest in time to the time of Christ's earthly life. Yet, references to Joseph are scant, not that he was ignored or denigrated by the Fathers, but that they were divinely inspired to regard him theologically equal to any other saint. An explanation:

Firstly, St Joseph is a background figure for the same reason Moses’ father is made obscure. Moses is a type or prefiguration of Christ, and Moses’ mother, Yoshabel, is a prefiguration of the Mother of God. Moses’ father, Amram, is a prefiguration of St Joseph.

So, therefore, if Amram is a background character, so necessarily is St Joseph, because the emphasis in the Old Testament falls on Moses and therefore his mother, as it does on Christ in the New Testament and therefore His mother.

In the OT, Moses is emphasised as the deliverer, and in the NT, Christ is the Saviour. Therefore the emphasis is on the mothers, not the fathers, and therefore not the "Holy Family". The term "Holy Family" is a western term, to reduce the Mother of God and St Joseph to people we can better “relate” to, which is a feature of western humanism. This is a dilution of the faith, an attempt to make the faith conform to our own imperfect image, to bring what is holy to our own level, instead of us trying to perfect ourselves on their model, to restore our fallen selves to the perfect image of God. Such an approach also ignores what the Apostles and Fathers have long taught.

The Mother of God is not merely “St Mary”.She is above the saints, and even the angels. She is the All-Holy, the Mother of God, the Ever-virgin. The reason for this language is precisely that she gave birth to God.

Secondly, Orthodox Christians, iconographer or otherwise, should seek to absorb the faith. Therefore, we must hold opinions on matters of the faith which come from the teachings of the Orthodox Church, not rely on our own thoughts or opinions when these contradict the mind of the Church. Orthodox theology that comes from scripture and Holy Tradition can only be interpreted by the Holy Fathers and the Canons, i.e. from within the life of the Church. If we try to "guess" or give our personal opinions in theological matters, then we create a new religion and lead others to do the same. In matters of iconography, since it is a Mystery of the Church and "theology in colour", the same applies.

Returning to the idea of “humanising” saints and holy ones:

Some have suggested, as a justification for showing St Joseph holding the Child, that, in order to fully accept both natures of Christ (human and divine), then He should be sometimes shown as a touchable, loveable, wonderful Child.

It is an honourable and pious view that St Joseph can serve as a figure of devotion and inspiration for children who are, themselves, fatherless. However, an icon, as opposed to a conventional religious painting or other work of art, must be grounded in solid theology and doctrine. As for the situation of fatherless children, be they orphans through death or paternal abandonment , this is by no means a new or recent problem. Having a reasonable grasp of history illustrates that this is not a phenomenon solely of our present age.

Regarding the "need" to portray the human side of Christ by portraying Him as a "toucheable, loveable, wonderful child", there are at least two prototypes in existence which attest to this, but which at the same time do not diminish His divinity. The icons are both of the Mother of God: one is known as Pelagonitissa (of Pelagonia), which dates from the 15th century. The second is known as Delighting in her Child, (also known as Rejoicing or Joyful); these seem to have originated in the Slavic lands at about the same time as the Greek/Macedonian (Ochrid) Pelagonitissa. Both icons show the divine Child in playful pose, though His mother is properly shown with the appropriately serious expression on her face common to all her icons. Any expression of joyous emotion in the Virgin’s face is quite subtle; her mouth is still pursed, the lines of sorrow under her eyes are still there, but there is a hint of joy in the expression of her eyes.

A third example of an icon which illustrated Christ’s humanity is Mother of God Milk-giver (Greek: Galaktotrophoussa; Slavonic: Mlekopitatel’nitsa). This icon arose to counter the heresies which denied the full humanity of Christ. It shows the Christ-child suckling from His mother’s breast. (Orthodox hymnography for the Mother of God frequently refers to her nursing the infant Christ, and the standard Gospel reading for the liturgy of any feast of the Mother of God includes Luke 11:27.) However, in proper iconographic tradition, while the Virgin’s breast is visible, it is rendered in a non-anatomical way i.e. the breast seems to emerge from her garments about halfway between her shoulder and where her "real" breast would be. This anatomical anomaly has been interpreted by some as an indication that iconography was a naïve art form, that iconographers "couldn’t draw or paint". Not so. The anatomical distortion was a deliberate gesture to portray a theological truth (that Christ was fully human as well as fully divine), while not risking any sensual or corrupting implications regarding the portrayal of the Virgin’s breast.

Why are these examples raised? To show that it requires the imprimatur of Orthodox theology and doctrine to allow the portrayal of any scene or imagery in an icon.
In iconography, as is true in any other aspect of Orthodoxy, nothing is random. Nothing is without meaning. Everything is linked. Everything has a purpose.

It is imperative on the part of every iconographer for his or her icons to be subject to the highest level of theological and doctrinal rigour, particularly when he or she wishes to portray a saint where there is no (or no reliable) historical prototype. Enough damage has been caused over the centuries by the persistence of unmistakeably uncanonical images (such as the “New Testament Trinity”, “Angel of Holy Silence”, and other such images, often out of honest ignorance), and, in more recent years, by the adoption of a stylised, “iconographic” artistic style by non-Orthodox painters depicting subjects consistent with their own denomination’s doctrines, but which are contrary to Orthodox teaching. Such images can create confusion and, in some cases, spiritual damage, to otherwise good, pious Orthodox believers. Sadly, there are also a number of Orthodox iconographers who have made canonical mistakes.

To a non-Orthodox person, it is iconography which is the single most visible and definitive element which distinguishes the Orthodox Church from all others. It is our responsibility to ensure this holy and priceless treasure of our Church is preserved and defended against the influx of elements foreign to Orthodox belief and doctrine. The iconodules who suffered and often paid with their lives during the iconoclastic upheavals of past centuries deserve nothing less in their honour.

Fr Raphael Vereshack

27-08-2007, 03:49 PM

As an Orthodox priest there seem to be two important points made through Olga's posts:

i) Iconography is not a subjective art form. It is a visual expression of the theology of the Church especially as this relates to Christology. Iconography is not supposed to depict scenes of popular piety or meditation but rather the theological vision of the Church.

This is especially critical for us nowadays when many emotional and arbitrary themes are brought before our attention within the Church. These may seem justified since they have a 'religious' theme. But they distort our understanding since they replace the theological with the emotional and human.

The same could also be said of every other area of the life of the Church: Church architecture, liturgics, etc.

ii) In this discussion we can see two different kinds of authority being appealed to. One is the precedent of the past. The other the precedent of theological truth as expressed through the past.

While I do not think that the theological expression of the Church is found only by referring to a theological consensus of the past (yes- it is a very important reference point- but, to take only one example- iconography itself has changed in its expression over the centuries; eg compare ancient classical styles to encaustic and more recent; Slavic to Byzantine, etc. Unless we believe the theology of the Church evolves then each of these styles was valid in its own time and place- which means something for the Church now) I do believe the point of how the Church's truth is mainly a theological one, not just of a general sense of piety, is a very important one.

Again it is difficult to stress just how important this issue is to everyday Church & parish life.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Father David Moser

27-08-2007, 04:33 PM

Fr Raphael brings up some excellent points which may well lead into a new discussion on the general practice of the Church (and if this develops we will move these posts to a whole new discussion topic).

i) Iconography is not a subjective art form. It is a visual expression of the theology of the Church especially as this relates to Christology. Iconography is not supposed to depict scenes of popular piety or meditation but rather the theological vision of the Church.

This is especially critical for us nowadays when many emotional and arbitrary themes are brought before our attention within the Church. These may seem justified since they have a 'religious' theme. But they distort our understanding since they replace the theological with the emotional and human.

The same could also be said of every other area of the life of the Church: Church architecture, liturgics, etc.

This is quite true. I was originally baptized and ordained in a parish where the liturgical practice was quite a hodgepodge of style. It was half Greek, half Russian, half Anglican and a little bit of theatrics thrown in for good measure. At times the liturgical services were almost like a circus or a popular play rather than worship and common prayer. It took a long time to "unlearn" some of the crazy things I was taught in that parish. Thank God that local "typicon" (if it could be called that) is completely defunct. Such a "free for all" completely distorted at times the nature of Orthodox teaching and debased rather than enhanced worship.

My former parish is not the only example of such liturgical innovations. There are a whole lot of untrained (especially convert) clergy out there who were never taught how to properly serve - they were just ordained at the cathedral one day and sent back to their new parish to do the best they could the next. Sometimes this leads to genuinely pious but also very incorrect innovations in the services. These priests aren't trying to subvert the Church - they are just untrained and neglected. (and I will admit that I am one of those untrained priests - hence my vehemence on the topic)

Many of the icons that I see today also have that "debased" quality where they become more like "art" and less an expression of the teaching and prayer of the Church. There are a whole lot of "wannabe" iconographers out there who have gone to an iconography "workshop" and now have added the "skill" of painting icons to their repertoire. These paintings in iconographic style hold a different quality than icons that are painted - even in less than perfect style - with the spiritual and ascetic discipline of the Church. There is a resurgence of traditional iconographic style in the Church today - a departure from the very "westernized" style of the turn of the century (19th-20th). However some of the newer, "more correct" modern icons can't hold a candle to (pardon the pun) the prayer communicated through those older stylistically "less correct" icons.

We have also seen new icons that are rooted not in the tradition of the Church, but as banners for some political/social cause. Icons are painted that are meant to champion the plight of the homeless or the peace movement or other causes. This, I believe, is a misuse of iconography. The icon is a visual prayer - not the prayer of the individual iconographer, but an expression of the corporate prayer of the whole Body of Christ.

ii) In this discussion we can see two different kinds of authority being appealed to. One is the precedent of the past. The other the precedent of theological truth as expressed through the past.

This too is a very interesting point that has much promise for discussion. It is a very subtle distinction between "dead legalism" and the living tradition of the Church. To be tied to the past practice, just because it is the past has no life - it is the shell enclosing the life. It is better to seek out the life that the shell encloses and to draw upon that instead. Kind of like taking a seed and reverencing the seed as the ultimate expression of the life it contains and making sculptures or models of the seed as a continuation of the life as opposed to actually planting the seed and seeing the tree that grows from it.

Fr David Moser

Florianos

27-08-2007, 08:27 PM

God bless!+

Dear Alexander
Your devotion to St Joseph, and your enthusiastic defence of him are admirable. Unfortunately, you seem to have missed the point of much of what I have written.

2. Iconography is based on Holy Tradition, which includes Scripture, the teachings of the Apostles and Fathers, which are accepted by the whole Church. These teachings are best expressed in the liturgical services of the Church. The content and composition of any icon must be completely compatible with the teachings of the Church, and correctly express the truths of the faith. At no point in the hymnody (liturgical text) of any of the services associated with St Joseph does the Church teach anything other than what I have pointed out in my earlier posts.

3. The motif of the young Christ being carried on the shoulders of Joseph has a very different meaning to the holding of the Child by His mother in her icons. There are also only a very few old or ancient icons of the Flight into Egypt which show the Child sitting on Joseph’s shoulders. The vast majority show the Child held by His mother, or sitting with His mother on the donkey, with Joseph walking behind the donkey, or, in some cases, leading the donkey. In all cases, the humility and deference of Joseph to the Virgin and her Child is clearly expressed by Joseph’s posture and gesture.

4. Iconography and hymnody are not about “What do I think and feel about this saint or feast?”, but “What does the Church teach about this saint or feast?” A painter of conventional art, be it religious or secular, is free to be creative and to paint what and however he likes. By contrast, an iconographer is not a free agent to do as he pleases, but is in service to the Church, and must work within what the Church teaches and believes.

You wrote:

To know more about St. Joseph the Betrophed it would be better to study the text for his feast of Elder Gerasimos of Mount athos (http://monachos.net/library/Orthodox_Dictionary#Athos) wich he wrote on the request of Elder Sabbas of Kalymnos( I think these two great Elders of our time are trustwothy witnessers of correct orthodoxy).

My friend, you may not realise that you are treading on very dangerous ground here. This service to St Joseph written by Elder Gerasimos is not the one which is used by the Orthodox Church as a whole, or even at a local level. It is not the service used by the Church of Greece, the Church of Russia, or anywhere else in the Orthodox world. It therefore cannot represent the accepted universal teaching of the Church. A new service text, be it in honour of a newly-glorified saint, or a new service written for an existing saint or feast, MUST be examined by the Church as a whole, or, at the very least, by a local Synod. The Synod will then determine whether the new service conforms with the established teachings of the Church. If it does not, then it cannot be accepted as canonical liturgical material. Elders Gerasimos and Sabbas may well be good and holy men, but the holiness (real or perceived) of one or two individuals does not automatically bestow canonical status to a liturgical service written by them. It may have been written as a devotional exercise, but this does not make it part of the liturgical canon.

Dear my Friend, Olga!

I think you missed the point of my posts? You have to read very carefully!

I could post much more excerpts from the church fathers and other writings but I think I post enough to show that it is absolute not contrary to Orthodox church tradition to depict St. Joseph with the Godchild in his arms! The Gospel often use the title Father (even the Theotokos used it when she spoke to her son). Like I have said NO OTHER SAINT was found worthy to be called Father of Christ? Are we more traditional than Gospel or when St. John Chrysostom wrote that St. Joseph was chosen to fulfil all duties of a father towards a son. Are we more orthodox than St. John? Of course the Apocryphs are not the Holy Scripture but the ancient writing of St. Joseph is a witness that Christians early began to think about St. Joseph and his relation to Christ. There are others were St. Joseph is mentioned (I think of the Apostle Thomas and St. Justin wrote about Christ as carpenter)

The hymn you quoted from St. Joseph of Arimathea is not against what I wrote - also St. Joseph the Betrophed was amazed and found himself unworthy to hold and touch Christ: WHO has given me the son of God to be my son ? I think we are not more enlightened as St. Ephraim !

Of course St. Joseph is not equal to the Theotokos but he was chosen by God to minister Her and Christ in his earthly life as his Stepfather ( that he was his Stepfather we can see from the title of his son-Brother of the Lord)

All the Service texts you posted I know very well and are not contrary what I wrote. What you posted is usually concentrated on the Nativity of CHRIST and not especially on St. Joseph ? I think this was also the reason why Elder Amphilochios ordered a service written to St. Joseph the Betrophed from Elder Gerasimos of Mikra Annis skete( he wrote many services for orthodox saints like the new appeared Raphael, Nikolaos and Ireni- he was honoured by the Ecumenical Patriarch for his work).

I think these two Elders were more traditional than we all. So I believe to follow them and reading their writings will not lead me to dangerous ground! They received the same spirit as the Holy Fathers of old. Elder Amphilochios did not study books he lived orthodoxy and had orthodox spirit, if it would be contrary to tradition he had noticed it. The service is not very well known but it was approved to use it for the feast of St. Joseph! And I hope in the future, so God will, the service will be used in many other orthodox churches.

I have the Synaxarion of monk Makarios of Mount Athos and there is also an icon of St. Joseph the Betrophed with Christ , in the excellent book of the Holy Apostles Convent( they are very traditional) -The Life of the Virgin Mary the Theotokos- is an icon of St. Joseph with the Godchild. The icon of our chapel was used by a very traditional orthodox magazine
for the front cover (and none of the subscribers had mentioned any problem) ! All these very traditional orthodox see it not contrary to tradition to depict St. Joseph with the Godchild!

You insinuate to all these orthodox that they are western influenced and untraditional or use iconography for personal religious feelings!

I have posted excerpts from holy scripture, some church fathers, Apocryphs, prayer text like the Akathistos ( not orthodox as you think),service texts( also not orthodox in your opinion even dangerous) . First you wrote there are no ancient frescos of the flight of Egypt with the Christchild on his shoulders later are some few? I have tried to show you the theological meaning! It has nothing to do “ What I think or what I feel”. I have many books on iconography but I have not found a canon or reason against the depicting?

I think I can write and post endless you will not accept it?

In CHRIST

Michael Stickles

27-08-2007, 09:14 PM

I was originally baptized and ordained in a parish where the liturgical practice was quite a hodgepodge of style. It was half Greek, half Russian, half Anglican and a little bit of theatrics thrown in for good measure.

Hmmm... 1/2 + 1/2 + 1/2 + (little bit)... I take it the liturgies were quite long? :-)

Humor aside, I was reading more about iconography recently (the discussions here have raised my interest), and came across this at antiochian.org (http://www.antiochian.org/icons-eastern-orthodoxy), which I think meshes in with some of the fascinating information that Olga has been presenting:

... the rules regarding the creation of an icon are rigorous. The iconographer must prepare himself for the task of painting an icon by following a strict discipline of fasting and prayer. He must quiet his spirit and submit himself to God. The icon he creates will not be signed. He will not expect accolades or applause when the icon is completed. The icon will be created to inspire and lead others into worship. Painting the icon is not a use of imagination. Instead, the icon will be painted using the prescribed regimen and style that has been passed down through the centuries. Everything from the facial expressions to the colors used is predetermined. The following is a prayer recited by an iconographer prior to starting to work:

O Divine Master of all that exists, enlighten and direct the soul, the heart and the mind of your servant: guide my hands so that I might portray worthily and perfectly Your Image, that of Your Holy Mother and of all the Saints, for the glory, the joy, and the beautification of Your Holy Church. ( Quenot, p.13)

In Christ,
Mike