Shorter catechism question

[Bob Hendry]

Greetings in Christ Jesus!

My children and I have been studying the Westminster Shorter Cateshism during family worship. Last night we started on


Question 85:"What doth God require of us, that we may escape his wrath and cursedue to us for sin?

The Westminster shorter catechism : With Scripture proofs. 1996 (3rd edition.) . Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA"

How does the Orthodox Church answer this question?

As I find myself inclining more and more toward Orthodoxy, I thought it approproate to persent its perspective in my discussions with my children. I am not aware of an "orthodox Catechism"; would one of you please point to toward it, if it exists?

Thanks - In Christ,

Bob Hendry (http://bhendry@cheerful.com)

Psalm 46:10 & 11: "10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. 11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah."

[Eugene]

Dear Bob,

Here is a paper describing the fundamental and key difference between western and Orthodox Christianity views on God's "wrath" and judgement.

The River of Fire, By Alexander Kalomiros
http://www.stvladimirs.ca/library/river-of-fire.html

In Christ,
Evgeny

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Bob Hendry,

There exist several catechisms of the Orthodox Church by different authors. One I found useful (and still find useful) when I began my journey a few years ago is available on the Orthodox Church in America website, here (http://www.oca.org/OCorthfaith.asp?SID=2).

Perhaps you already know this, and had a more "specific" catechism in mind with numbered articles, which I have also found elsewhere on the net, and I can look it up for you if you like.

By the way, how does the Reformed Presbyterian church answer the question of God's Wrath? And forgive my ignorance, are Reformed Presbyterians a bit like Anglicans?

ICXC
Byron

[Fr Aaron Warwick]

I have heard of a new catechism book by Metropolitan Hierotheos Vlachos, who is one of the most respected theologians in the church today. It's entitled "Entering the Orthodox Church: The Catechism and Baptism of Adults."

Fr. Nicholas Palis of the St. Nikodemos the Hagiorite Orthodox Publication Society is the key distributor for the text in the U.S. The cost is only $14.00. ORDERS CAN BE PLACED BY PHONE: 724-
375-7867. This is the only way that I know of at this time to order the catechism. I would highly recommend anything by Metropolitan Hierotheos.

Aaron

[Owen Jones]

Historically, individuals such as Origen and others set up catechetical schools throughout the Middle East. One might call these schools spiritual boot camps. The primary focus was on prayer and practice of the virtues. The idea that someone can become a well-formed Christian by discussing a crip sheet for a few hours in the parish would have seemed preposterous to the early Church holy men. The lack of proper catechesis as spiritual formation and cure of the soul is at the heart of the modern religious crisis. I can intellectually assent to the Church's teachings, as taught to me in my parish, but that is meaningless from a practical standpoint. There has to be a cost. Classically, right action leads to right knowledge. That has been turned upside down. Not to disparage some of the recent and very good catechetical manuals that have been produced, but they really miss the point.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I think this brings up a very important point about why there are in fact so few 'catechism books' in Orthodoxy; & I believe they did not even exist before modern times (18th century on).

Different books which try to deal with the Faith as a whole are of course very helpful especially since they often try to distill everything into one volume. But even here it is interesting how each catechism is different in approach & tone.

The fact is that, as Owen points out, there can be very little true understanding of the Church without the struggle to lead the self-sacrificial life of the Church. This is why for example the catechumenate of the past(a much more helpful idea I would say) involved learning the Church's way of life & Her mystery as a form of ascetical training. This is also why the catechumenate in the past was so lengthy- often a number of years & until this was completed the catechumens left the Church building proper at some point during the services. Apart from this ascetic "lived-out" aspect of the catechumenate the books we read will not be completely understood.

Thankfully we now see more emphasis placed on a traditional type of catechumenate where there is a balance between the books & the life we are beginning to learn about.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear all,

There is a certain parallel to be drawn to the manner in which entry into the monastic life (i.e. the 'novitiate') still takes place today. The 'theological' concepts of the life in Christ are not taught in abstraction but as part of an ascetical endeavour which reveals them through experience and practice as part of the larger, complete way of life. It is for this reason that novices are so often given what appear 'menial' tasks -- washing up, cleaning, cooking, etc. --; not because such tasks are meant as a trial per se, but because they are an initiation into a life or vision of theology that is inherently ascetical, built upon the living out of a Christian life rather than an adherence to a set of concepts or affirmations.

INXC, Matthew

[Bob Hendry]

Dear Byron,

The official answer in the Westminster Shorter Catechism is:


To escape the wrath and curse of God due to us for sin, God requireth of us faith in Jesus Christ, repentance unto life, (Acts 20:21) with the diligent use of all the outward means whereby Christ communicateth to us the benefits of redemption. (Prov. 2:1–5, Prov. 8:33–36, Isa. 55:3)

Some RPs that I know take issue with this answer, as it implies a catholic-like system of salvation by works. That goes against the grain of predestination, so dearly held by most all reformed protestants.

I personally hold tightly to the doctrine of Salvation by Works - the unmerited and perfect atoning work of Jesus Christ. http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif

Cheers – In Christ

Bob Hendry
Southern Maryland