Sayings of the Desert Fathers (Apothegmata)

[M.C. Steenberg]

'Pray gently and calmly, sing with understanding and rhythm; then you will soar like a young eagle high in the heavens.'

--Evagrios the Solitary, 'On Prayer' 82.

[M.C. Steenberg]

I have just placed a page on the site that contains several quotes by St Hesychios the Priest, one of the early Fathers presented in the first volume of the Philokalia (though not precisely a Desert Father in the strictest sense).

Those interested can find the text at:
St Hesychios the Priest on Personal Holiness (http://www.monachos.net/patristics/hesychios.html)

Matthew

[M.C. Steenberg]

As a correction to the above note, the article on St Hesychios is actually at:

http://www.monachos.net/patristics/hesychios.shtml

Matthew

[Jim]

Is there any good online translation of the Philokalia?

[michelmg]

I dont see the Bogoroditsa - the Theotokos - in the teachings of the fathers of the desert.
It's a matter of fact I know just a little bit about them. Do you have ideas about that?

Kind regards

[Prof Richard McBride]

Michelma asked about the Theotokos in the teachings of the Desert Fathers.

I am wondering if my memory is faulty in assigning the works of the Desert Fathers (as opposed to the Church Fathers) to the first two centuries (AD)? If there is any truth in that, then they would seem to have left themselves out of this picture because so little survives concerning the Theotokos during that period. It seems that after the New Covenant (NT) works were written (would Saint Paul’s epistles mark the end of that effort?), there is an hiatus of textual evidence concerning the new Church’s stand on the Theotokos until the Third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus, 431.

Considering the Nestorian debate which precipitated that council (“Let no one call Mary, Theotokos, for Mary was only a human being and it is impossible that God should be born of a human being...” as one Nestorian sentiment) -- considering this style of Nestorian pronouncement (without ignoring the Christological implications) such tendentious and heretical subject matter guarantees considerable debate. So, in despite of the lack of evidence, some amount of debate concerning the Theotokos was bound to have preceded the Council.

For instance, Justin Martyr (d.165) and Ireneus (d.202) spoke of her. Origen (d.254) is known to have used the oldest version of the Mary prayer, as did Saint Gregory the Theologian (d.389). And sometime during the Fourth Century the teacher of Gregory and Jerome, called The Blind Twin, advocated the term, “Ever-Virgin” for Mary, as did Saint Athanasius (d.373). We thus know that the position within the Church of the Mother of Jesus was in consideration, before the official title of God Bearer was given to her.

Unfortunately, the Theotokos is also included in the so-called “apocryphal Gospel of James” (not to be confused with the authentic Epistle of Saint James), and I believe it is from this apocryphal source that so much of the detail of her (otherwise unknown) life is fantasized: The stories of Mary’s dedication by her mother, Anna, to a life given to God; the details of her betrothal to Joseph in accord with a miracle revealed to the high priest; and so much more, which has been generated to fill in the gaps on one of history’s most revered subjects -- yet, one of its most enigmatic. In truth, we do not even know if the Theotokos’ parents were really named Joachim and Anna.

This misleading and false source of Mariology, Mariolitry, Marianists, etc. -- the “Gospel of James”-- is also at the source of the Roman Church’s doctrine of her Immaculate Conception (1854), which the Orthodox do NOT accept. Similarly, the Orthodox also reject the Roman doctrine of Mary’s Assumption. Father Patrinicos, in The Dictionary of Greek Orthodoxy, says: “The Orthodox belief is to the effect that though as the Mother of God, Mary’s prayers for us are efficacious, neither was she conceived without the stain of the original sin nor was she taken bodily to heaven at the time of her death.” [p.246]

Since so much confusion reigns over this subject, I hope no one minds taking this chance to urge a small degree of clarification.

subdeacon richard

[M.C. Steenberg]

In response to the lack of space paid to the Mother of God in the sayings of the Desert Fathers: it is true that the Theotokos receives far less space in these writings than in other texts of the Church, but this is largely explained by reference to the pragmatic character of the sayings -- they are principally aimed at delivering practical advise on living the ascetic life of virtue and devotion, and in general do not deal with 'theological' or exegetical teachings on the Faith or persons within it. Discussions on the precise attributes of the holy Mother of God lie outside this general purview, and so they receive little time.

But there is a notable and important exception. We find in saying 144 of Abba Poemen the Shepherd: "Abba Joseph related that Abba Isaac said, 'I was sitting with Abba Poemen one day and I saw him in ecstasy and as I was on terms of great freedom of speech with him, I prostrated myself before him and begged him, saying, "Tell me where you were." He was forced to answer and he said, "My thought was with St Mary, the Mother of God, as she wept by the cross of the Saviour. I wish I could always weep like that."'

It is especially noteworthy that Abba Poemen uses the title 'Mother of God' for the holy Mary, demonstrating that what would later be conciliarly and doctrinally 'approved' as an appropriate theological title was already in popular use among the simple and holy folk of the Egyptian desert.

It is also interesting to note that Mary is already being called 'Saint', even at this early date.

INXC,
Matthew

[James Whittney]

Greetings to everyone. I notice that there are a number of different volumes out in the bookstores and on the library shelves, containing the Sayings of the Desert Fathers in various collections and translations.

Is there a single volume, or certain volumes, that are considered 'better' than others, or which are more widely read/accepted by the church?

James

[Michel Depiesse]

Thanks to Richard and Matthew for their explanations on the Theotokos

In the light of Jesus
Michel

[Michel Depiesse]

I am looking for some texts of Evagrius Ponticus:
- Antirrheticos
- Treatise on the Eight Spirits of Wickedness
and Commentary on Psalms

In the light of Jesus
Michel

[moses]

Michael,
You might find what you're looking for at www.ccel.org. I know that they have online the works of the early church fathers.

HIS Servant,
Reader Moses

[Michel Depiesse]

Thank you, Moses, but those texts don't exist in www.ccel.org. There are difficult to find. For exemple, Miss Rondeau works on a edition of the commentaries on psalms of Evagrius but she began in 1960! And nothing seems to be available yet!

The interpretation of the psalms made by desert's fathers and hesychast seems very deep. Do you have information about?

s bogom

[M.C. Steenberg]

Greetings Michel,

You will be able to find selections of the Antirrheticos in the printed volume:

Evagrius & M O’Laughlin. "Antirrheticus (Selections)" in Ascetic Behavior in Greco-Roman Antiquity - a Sourcebook, ed.Vincent L Wimbush (Mineapolis: Fortress Press, 1990) 243-62.

I do not know of a text of the Antirrheticos currently available online.

Yours INXC,
Matthew

[M.C. Steenberg]

James,

In response to your request for information in printed volumes of the Sayings: the best volume is

Ward, Benedicta SLG (translator), The Sayings of the Desert Fathers - the Alphabetical Collection (Cistercian Studies 59), with preface by Metropolitan Anthony Bloom (Kalamazoo: Cistercian Publications, 1975).

Here you will find a complete translation of the alphabetical collection of the Apothegmata Patrum, with a brief introductory note on each of the Fathers, a beautiful preface by Metropolitan ANTHONY (Bloom) of Sourozh, and an extremely helpful introduction by the translator to the Desert Fathers, their historical context, and general theological setting.

It is an extremely valuable book, in terms of its contents. It is priced at £12.25, and Amazon.com sells it for $12.95 US (a much better deal; click here (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0879079592/qid=1005675920/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_11_3/103-4682315-3123036) for Amazon's offering of the book).

INXC,
Matthew

[M.C. Steenberg]

Michel, did you ever find the texts for which you were searching? For what kind of project are you looking for them?

Matthew

[michel]

Hello Matthew,

I didn't found this text yet. I am busy now with the book of Hilarion Alfeyev on Saint Isaac the Syrian.

I study Evagrius because Briantchaninov and others contemporary startsi say : "If you don!t find a starets, read books"

I like the scientific mind of Evagrius because I think that philocaly is a science. Not an ideology, or poetry or psychopatology as others "spirituality traditions"

His teachings are less difficult to understand and apply that those of others hesychasts.

In the light of XC

Michel

[Weston Miles]

Can I ask about studies on the Desert Fathers? Not the text themselves (I have the book that Mr. Steenberg mentioned in his post: it's very good)... but I'm looking for some actual studies about the fathers of the desert: history, context, background, that sort of thing.

I'd appreciate any pointers!!

Thanks,
Weston

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Weston,

Regarding studies on the Desert Fathers, there are a few out there which will help you to set the context you're looking for. Unfortunately, for someone who just wants studies on this group, the options are fairly limited: a good deal of the research on the Desert Fathers comes in the form of introductions to their texts, articles in larger works, etc. The introduction in Benedicta Ward's volume of the Sayings, for example, is extremely good. But among the stand-alone volumes on the subject, you can find:

In English:

Gould, Graham, The Desert Fathers on Monastic Community (Oxford Early Christian Studies: Clarendon Press, 1993).

Pamphos, Stelios, Like a pelican in the wilderness: reflections on the Sayings of the Desert Fathers (Brookline: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 2000).

In French:

Guy, Jean-Claude, Recherches sur la tradition grecque des Apophthegmata Patrum (Brussels: Societé des Bollandistes, 1962).

In German:

Lilienfeld, Fairy von, Die christliche Unterweisung der Apophthegmata Patrum (Cairo: Bulletin de la Société d'archéologie copte, 1971).

Müller, Barbara, Der Weg des Weinens: die Tradition des "Penthos" in den Apophthegmata Patrum (Göttingen: Vandenhoeck und Ruprecht, 2000).

I hope some of the above proves helpful to you.

INXC, Matthew

[A Desert Aspirant]

"When a person is spiritually awakened, even if something irritates him, the bond of love is not dissolved; rekindling himself with the warmth of the love of God, he quickly recovers himself and with great joy seeks his neighbor's love...." St. Diadochos

[A Desert Aspirant]

"A person who through the grace of God partakes of divine blessings is under an obligation to share them ungrudgingly with others. For scripture says, 'Freely you have received, freely give'." St. Maximos

[Elizabeth]

Dearest Members of this forum:

St. Maximos the Confessor is very profound but I don't believe that he is a "Desert Father."

Are the desert fathers primarily the Early Coptic fathers who lived in the desert?

My Spiritual Father recommended The Sayings of the Desert Fathers which was translated by Sister Benedicta Ward and published by Cistercian Publications. I recently obtained it from Amazon.com

He also told me that many young monastics are only given two books to study: The New Testament and The Sayings of the Desert Fathers. There is a lot of wisdom in those two books. If we could only follow those teachings and live them, we would all be saints in this life and in the next.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Lovingly in Christ,

Mrs. Hanson

[Herman Blaydoe]

The Sayings of the Desert Fathers is a wonderful book, but it often leaves me in the dust. Many of those saying go way beyond my ability to comprehend. A wonderful companion to this is The Word in the Desert which is an examination of the hermeneutic of the Desert Fathers, a valuable exegesis.

[Elizabeth]

My dearest Herman:

Re: The Sayings of the Desert Fathers

I think the point has been made before: an Orthodox Christian cannot study these writings of the desert fathers without a Spiritual Father who is himself steeped in ancient wisdom. Just studying books isn't going to work because the novice can fall into pride or some other deception of the devil. A novice in the spiritual life has to learn from someone who is more experienced, hence it is important to chose a Spiritual Father with great care.

Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on me a sinner.

Lovingly yours in Christ,
Mrs. Hanson

[Herman Blaydoe]

Metropolitan Hierotheos (Vlachos) says that true spiritual fathers are few these days. A spiritual father is a wonderful gift, but I am wary of anyone who takes on the role too willingly. Yet we all have access to the lives of the saints and the writings of spiritual people like St. Theophan the Recluse who left us The Path to Salvation, or St. Tikhon of Zadonsk who's work Journey To Heaven is a treasury of advice on a Christian life. Another favorite of mine is Father Arseny 1843-1973, an incredibly inspiring tale of a true servant of Christ in the Gulags. For those of us not blessed with a spiritual father, we are not necessarily left bereft.

In reading and study, St. Theophan gives some worthwhile advice I think. He recommends that those immature in the Faith concentrate on reading the lives of the saints. These holy people give us excellent examples of what might be called "applied theology" as witnessed by their actions and deeds. For those more mature, he recommends reading the writings of the Fathers of the Church. They provide the lense of wisdom through which Holy Scripture can be rightly comprehended. Finally, he recommends serious study of Holy Scripture itself only to those who have steeped themselves in the wisdom of the Church in prayer, worship and study of the Fathers. If more people heeded this advice, I think that such things as "the Jesus Seminar" and discussions of imaginary "Q" manuscripts would never have gained the prestige that they have in some circles, and there would be a lot less confusion in the Christian world. At least that is how it seems to this simple mind.

Herman the simple

[Elizabeth]

My dearest Herman:

It seems to me that part of the confusion results from the different definitions of theologians.

Catholic and Protestant theologians are those that study God and His Revelations. Hence, those who study the Bible without true faith come up with weird theories as you mentioned.

Orthodox Christian Theologians are those who experience God through prayer, fasting and living the Orthodox Faith.

But I do think we agree here.

Lovingly in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

[A Desert Aspirant]

Excuse me if I quoted St. Maximos the Confessor and St. Diadochos on a thread where the great saints don't belong. "A rose by any other name...." Shakespeare (Also not a Desert Father.) http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif

[Elizabeth]

By: Abba Matoes, a Desert Father

The nearer a man draws to God, the more he sees himself a sinner. It was when Isaish the prophet saw God, that he declared himself "a man of unclean lips." (Is.6:5)

Taken from The Sayings of the Desert Fathers p. 143:2

[Elizabeth]

Dearest Friends in Christ:

Have any of you read Juan Manso by Miguel de Unamuno? Miguel, claro que si, was not a desert father, but he must have read the quote by Abba Matoes (listed in post #45 above).

Juan Manso was the story of a man who thought he was a saint - everyone had to bear with him on this earth. Then when he went to Heaven - or tries to enter the pearly gates - he finds that no one wants him. Even the devils in hell say that there has been some serious error, that he doesn't even belong in hell. It's really a great read!

Juan Manso is also a play on words. Juan means a very passionate man - definitely a sinner. Manso means meek, which he tries to pretend to be.

You might enjoy reading it, as it makes the teachings of the desert fathers come alive.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

(Message edited by chanterhanson on 31 July, 2003)

[Elizabeth]

BTW: I forgot to mention. Juan Manso is one of those rare short stories with a moral point. It's very clean - so even dear Father Averky would enjoy it.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

[Fr Averky]

Dear in the Lord Elizabeth,

Unamuno was a very interesting character. Whenn I was a young man living in San Francisco, just before I became Orthodox, I had as two dear friends, the Marquis de Pedraza, and his mother the Baroness de Borchgrave ( I forget the spelling, it is a Belgian name). The Marquis, "Willy" as we called him, had studied along with his brother under Unamuno. He many times referred to him, but alas, after thirty six years, I no longer recall what he said. Like some members of my family, he had attended the University of Salamanca, where I believe Unamuno taught, at least for a while. Just a little tid bit.

Fr. A.

[Elizabeth]

Querido Padre Averky:

¿Habla usted español?

Unamuno (1864-1936) was the rector of the University of Salamanca where he taught philosophy. He fell into disfavor with the authorities and was exiled for a time.

He wrote: "Mi religión es buscar la verdad en la vida y la vida en la verdad, aun a sabiendas de que no he de encontrarlas mientras viva; mi religión es luchar con Dios ... Rechazo el eterno ignorabimus. Y en todo caso quiero trepar a lo inaccesible."

Lovingly and respectfully yours in Christ,

Elizabeth

[Herman Blaydoe]

It seems to me that part of the confusion results from the different definitions of theologians.

Metr. Hierotheos writes that we are given knowledge of God in proportion to our love for God. The closer we approach Him, the better we get to know Him. The only real theologians are those who have stood in fear and trembling before the very Face of God. The rest of us are merely armchair quarterbacks, library adventurers.