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Hermit
25-01-2004, 07:34 AM
I've long been fascinated by tales of the early Christian Desert Fathers, as you might suspect from my name.

What do you make of the following story ... is it all right to cheat someone for a greater good? All's well that ends well?

Book VIII. Chapter VI from http://www.benedict.baker.btinternet.co.uk/vitae-patrum/page38.html

A certain VIRGIN who struggled with the love of money.

There was a certain woman of Alexandria known only as The Virgin who dressed quite modestly but whose nature was niggardly, proud and insolent, governed by avarice, fonder of gold than of Christ. She would not spend a single obol of her money on guests, the poor, the afflicted, the monks, the virgins, or the church. In spite of the many warnings given her by the holy fathers she would not get rid of the heavy burden of her riches.

She had a family however, for she had adopted her niece as her own daughter. Night and day she thought of nothing but spending her treasure on this daughter, and in so doing began to care less for treasure in heaven. One kind of deceit which the devil offers is to encourage avarice under the disguise of family concern. It is obvious that he has no real concern for families, for it is he who encourages fratricide, matricide and patricide, as Scripture proves. (Deut.12.31). And although it may seem that he sometimes encourages concern for family, it is not in order to do people good but to provoke parents' souls to wickedness. He is not ignorant of that far-reaching precept, 'the unjust shall not inherit the kingdom of God' (1 Cor.6.9).

Of course when your family lacks anything it is quite possible to supply their needs without danger to your soul, as long as you are spiritually aware and your motives are directed towards God. But when you set your whole mind on concern for family to the neglect and exclusion of all else you fall under the condemnation of the law as one who rates the salvation of your own soul as of no importance. David the sacred psalmist who feared God sings about those who seek their soul's salvation, when he says, 'Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord' (as if to say, not many) 'or who shall stand in the holy place? Even he who has clean hands and a pure heart, and has not reckoned his soul to be of no value' (Psalms.24.3). Those neglectful of their spiritual health reckon that their souls are of no value and will disappear when this little body dies.

When the holy priest, Macarius, saw that this woman, known only by the name of Virgin, had become very negligent in her prayer, he decided to take action to remove from her this insidious fault of avarice. He was the warden of a hostel for physically disabled people, and in his youth had been a jeweller.

"I have come across some precious stones, green emeralds and blue irises," he said to her. "I don't know whether it is a genuine merchant or a thief who has them, but no price has been put upon them, because I think they are priceless. However, the person who has them is selling them for five hundred solidi. If you would like to have them, give me five hundred solidi. You will be able to get five hundred solidi for one gem alone, and the rest you can use for your niece's benefit."

Totally absorbed in this niece as she was, she immediately conceived a desire to see her decked with this jewellery, and falling at Macarius' feet she begged him not to let any one else get hold of it.

"Come to my house and you can see them," Macarius said.

"No," she said, "but take these five hundred solidi and buy them yourself if you will. I don't want to see the man who is selling them."

Macarius took the money and put it into the funds of the hostel.

Some little time passed by and she hesitated to say anything to him, such was the respect in which he was held among the Alexandrians for his faith and generosity. But at last she went to him at church and said, "Can I ask what is happening about those stones that I gave you five hundred solidi for?"

"From the day that you gave me that gold," he said, "I have been spending it on the gems, and if you would like to see them come to my hostel. That is where the gems are. You can see them and if you don't like them you can have your money back."
She came eagerly.

Now in the hostel the women were in the upper floor and the men in the lower. When they got there Macarius asked her in the vestibule which she wanted to see first, the irises or the emeralds.

"Whatever you like," she said.

So he took her upstairs and showed her the women, with distorted limbs and faces disfigured by all kinds of sores.

"These are the irises," he said.

He took her downstairs and showed her the men.

"These are the emeralds", he said. "I don't think there is anything more precious than these. But if you disagree of course you can have your money back."

The Virgin was overcome with shame. She went back home grieving greatly that she had not given money for God's sake instead of parting from it as a case of necessity.
She later showed her gratitude to the priest when the girl she looked after got married and died without having had any children, after which she regularly gave some of her money to charitable uses.

Herman Blaydoe
25-01-2004, 02:49 PM
I suspect it is a little more complicated than that. Such stories are not uncommon. There is also a story about St. Thomas that is rife with deceptions. But in the end, the person does not feel "cheated" in any sense. Where is the cheating? Did the woman feel "cheated?"

cheater: someone who leads you to believe something that is not true. When TRUTH is revealed, where is the cheat?

All things work for good for those who follow the Lord. If I am "cheated", it becomes an opportunity for my edification, regardless of the motives of the "cheater." But woe be to the "cheater" if his motives are anything less than Godly. God knows. In the OT He tells us through the prophets that He allows the Babylonians and the Syrians to humble Israel, but that they will be punished for their misdeeds.

The moral of the story is not that we should go off and engage in "pious deception." The people in these stories are spirtually mature and often gifted with discernment, to KNOW that what they do is from God, whereas those such as I have a long road to go, getting my own spiritual act together before I go off teaching others such drastic lessons. The disclaimer "these are spiritual professionals, do NOT try this at home" applies. We do well to concentrate on the lesson rather than the method by which the lesson is taught. It is better to practice charity than to practice deception, yes?

Herman
Not a designated spiritual advisor. Void where prohibited by common sense

Fr Raphael Vereshack
25-01-2004, 10:00 PM
Dear Herman's Hermit,

I very much liked the original question & then answer. To pull on this thread a bit more concerning deception and the motivation behind this we could also bring up 'testing' which is also very often done in Orthodox monasteries.

In 1986 I was visiting a certain kelli at Nea Sketi on the Holy Mt (Mt Athos). There was the most innocent, dispassionate young novice I believe I have ever set eyes on (appropriately his name was Paschalios). He would bring us coffee & treats with the most sweet smile and scarcely a word; meanwhile the elder would test him by loudly berating him in front of us all for this and that imaginary thing he had done wrong. To this P. would only penitently bow his head. What was even more amazing was to watch as the other 'normal' novice would then tell the elder off for giving Paschalios a hard time! To this the ancient would not bat an eye or say a word in reply.

Orthodoxy in action as they say.

In Christ- Fr R

Daniel Jeandet
26-01-2004, 12:02 PM
While thinking about this question you have asked, although I cannot come up with an actual answer to your question, I did realise that the person who did the cheating in this case must have had great discernment to know that his strategy would work on this woman, at that particular time. I like these types of stories but I would not attempt anything like this because I wouldnt know if the person would respond the way I hoped. It could have gone the other way, she may have become angry or fallen even harder in reaction to being tricked. I was baptised on the day for St Symeon the fool. I love the story about him throwing stones at people in Church. Imagine if someone did that to us while we were in Church. How would we react? I would be happy to be tricked or hit with stones if it was ultimately to my benefit.

Fr Raphael Vereshack
26-01-2004, 03:45 PM
Dear Daniel,

I very much like the general point you made in your last post "I would not attempt anything like this..." When Orthodox monasticism was beginning to spread from Jordanville & St Tikhon's in the 1970s there were plenty of 'horror stories' concerning the abuse of authority (and to be fair- obedience was in short supply also).

Eventually I came to the position that such 'testing' as we have been speaking about in our posts should only be done by the dispassionate, otherwise it can easily become abusive.

This is a somewhat delicate teaching in Orthodoxy; and to be honest something I was only really taught about at first on the Holy Mt. The lesson was that authority & obedience must operate witin the actual personl limits of the people involved. At first this may seem scandalous-are we not called to obedience and nothing else? Yes- but discernment is needed, otherwise one can end up acting purely out of passion and breaking the other's will, not guiding it to grow in Christ. This type of 'obedience' often causes people to 'snap' and lose their whole vocation.

In any case these are simply some of my thoughts on this matter.

In the love of Christ- Fr R

I would ask the community to please keep me and my parish in their prayers. Last night as I was leaving from a home blessing I slipped on snowy stairs and dislocated my shoulder. After the re-set the doctor said I am to be very careful for about a month with my arm.

Hermit
26-01-2004, 08:58 PM
Of course we'll pray for your healing, Fr R, if I might be permitted to add my prayers.

These have all been excellent and wise answers. My own view is different as usual ... I love reading the lives of saints and Fathers from the beginnings of Christianity, and can't help notice that not everything they do seems very Godly ... in other words they're mostly not absolutely perfect individuals. I don't believe saintliness necessarily means absolute perfection. In this case St Macarius didn't just test her, but actively lied in his eagerness to help the hostel residents.

Now a lie I think is always a sin since we know who the father of all lies is ... but in a very few cases might be necessary in this fallen world - the classic example is lying to save a Jew from Nazi persecutors. I don't think this story was such a lie necessary to prevent death, but maybe it was.

Another excusable lie might be "little white lie" type, such as telling someone who is old and sickly and looks ghastly, that she looks good today. It's no doubt a tiny sin, but maybe the sin is overbalanced by the moment of joy you might bring her. Perhaps the story of Macarius is like this but on a grander scale.

But at any rate saintly people always seem to have good intentions, so I think the Lord takes that into account as well as their general holiness and heals any rift made by their mistake, even as we hope Fr R's shoulder will soon be healed after his mistake.

Fr Raphael Vereshack
27-01-2004, 02:07 PM
Dear Hermit,

What you say is so interesting (& a bit playful)I just have to jump in with my two cents worth.

I believe that by defintion what the saints do is holy (i.e. guided by the Holy Spirit); we may wonder how their behaviour matches with holiness but isn't that just it? To wonder can mean two different things: 1)trying to understand through prayer; or 2)examining in a doubtful way. If the behaviour of the saints is difficult for us to understand does that mean there is something lacking in them? Somehow it does not seem likely that the tradition about these saints would have been preserved by the Church in order to teach us questionable behaviour!

Leaving out the question of whether outright falsehood is ever justified for the Christian (your example of hiding the Jew is good- there is an account in the Desert Frs of a monk being chastised because he revealed the presence of an escaped convict)I don't see how St Makarios was lying. He told the rich woman where the TRUE jewels were. Isn't this just like in all of Church life? Since truth is not intellectual but lived on the Cross, we cannot take it all at one leap & bound. Thus God, the Church, our spiritual fathers, etc bring us to the truth of Christ in stages suitable to our personal state. If you told someone what he would face in 20 years he would not understand or would not accept what you said. Going step by step does not mean falsehood.

In Christ- Fr R
Keep those brain-cells firing!

Herman Blaydoe
27-01-2004, 02:56 PM
Orthodoxy teaches that saintlyness does not mean either perfection or infallibility. NO ONE is infallible. The stories of the desert Fathers contain many examples of imperfection and less than Godly traits, no different than Holy Scripture does of Noah, Moses, King David and even the Holy Apostles like St. Peter who denied Christ three times. It also gives us fairly clear guidance on which kind of examples given that we are to follow.

Orthodox tradition is filled with subtrefuge, in early times it was not uncommon to ordain bishops against their will, using a deception to get them to the appointed place and time. One of the Fathers wrote a lengthy treatise to defend his use of deception in the ordination of a brother.

Again, the emphasis ought to be on the WHY rather than the HOW. If we are not careful, we can end up using such examples to rationalize less than Godly behavior on our own behalf. Sometimes ya gotta do whatcha gotta do, but always with self-examination and watchfulness.

Herman
who is neither a monastic nor a hermit and certainly not very saintly.

Melissa
27-01-2004, 09:23 PM
Dear Father Raphael,

I hope your shoulder is beginning to heal, and that you are able to rest as well as work...

You and your parish are in my prayers.
Melissa

Archimandrite Gregory
14-02-2004, 02:00 PM
I just LOVE that expression, 'pious fraud'...for years now whenever anyone says that I preached a great sermon, or I serve beautifully, or they give me any compliment, I say thank you, you are most kind and then to myself I say, I'm just a pious fraud. It helps to keep me in check and as far as I'm concerned (knowing my own sinfulness) I am!

In Him great mercy,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!

housewife
26-11-2004, 05:29 AM
Dear Father!I rather say: Thanks be to GOD! If it was good, HE did it! I honestly think so...