On Choosing a Wife, by St John Chrysostom

[sinjin smithe]

St. John Chrysostom wrote a book I believe titled, "On Choosing A Wife" however I am having trouble tracking it down. If anyone can help I would appreciate it.

[Andonis]

really Sinjin, i would also love to get my hands on a copy of this book. i know that i am having a lot of trouble these days recognising true virtue in a woman. my experiences have been so varied and inconsistent i know feel less able than ever to discern a good quality woman from the not so good. a book like this may help a great deal...

[sinjin smithe]

On Marriage and Family Life. St. John Chrysostom. Homilies on marriage, family life, sexual relations between husband and wife, and how to choose a wife. 114 pgs. $8.95.

Published by St. Vladimirs in March 1997. Apparently, you can buy it at Amazon.com I think I will pick this one up. I am still wondering though if that part is available online somewhere. I am sure it is but I will have to do more detective work.

[Andonis]

wow, i didn't realise all these books could be purchased on line. i just have to work out conversion from AU to US dollars. i imagine there is no real concern over safety?

[Richard McBride]

I don't understand: If you're that anxious to get married, why are you worried about "safety"?

[Andonis]

i aplogise for not being more clear with my expresion.i mean safety in ordering over the internet, not how safe it is to be married. although i do beleive after reading this book i will develop a better appreciation of what i am seeking in a woman. i've never taken to the idea many people my age claim, that when you fall in love, thats it there's no turning back, it goes beyond logic. i've always held the beleif that the mind will lead the heart. Love for someone cannot be independant of common beleifs and morals with that person. many women i have dated have told me i'm too critical and my expectations are too high. my response is often that i guess the image i've molded in my mind on what a spouse should be like, is based on my mother. she demonstrated quite well how you can be a house wife, a working woman, and a fervent orthodox christian all her life. i guess i can now blame my mother for instilling in me unrealistic expectations of women...

[sinjin smithe]

Richard, it is not so much about being anxious for marriage. I think a source like that can be a great aid in the courtship process before one gets too far along in the process. Besides this, what other advice is there on courtship in Orthodoxy besides bad advice from married people?

[Richard McBride]

Well, Guys, it was said only half in jest; but at least it was half.

How about: Take my wife..... please!

Oh, Forget it.

[sinjin smithe]

Andonis, I agree with you. Sometimes I think that I am too picky or that I my standards are way too high. Especially in this era, it is very difficult to find classy, quality women. No one has a problem with sordid moral behavior. No one wants to crucify their flesh, no one wants to submit to God. It is very frustrating.

[Jos Hoskinson]

Andonis and Sinjin,

I think you should be picky about your future mate. Finding that special person can take a long time. Your likes and dislikes will definitely influence your heart. The funny thing about love is that it can be very unpredictable at times. Or does this only happen to women?
Hopefully, that future wife will have the personality and religious similarities you are seeking.

There are women who are educated, with culture, fun, capable of managing a home, family and work and a Christian too. Now the degree of meeting these goals is another story and may need to be adjusted or not. That is an individual decision.
I think marriage is hard enough with committed individuals who love each other so, if it takes time, then take the time. Nothing could be worse than to give up your hopes and find yourself miserable.

I think I would like to read the book. It is good to know what is expected of women. I would like to know if these virtues apply to men as well.

[sinjin smithe]

Hello Jos, I am pretty sure that you can apply the criteria to men as well. Who knows, there may even be something on choosing a husband too.

[sinjin smithe]

The thing is, nice guys finish last. I am finding that to be so true in my life. Being a nice guy gets discouraging if not downright disparaging. I ask myself, why should I bother being a nice guy? Why be a virgin when chances are your wife won't be one in today's world? Is virginity overrated? These are the questions that come into my mind.

[Andonis]

sinjin, i sympathise with you completely. although God asks us to be "not of this world", in contemporary times this has never been more difficult to uphold. women almost on a grand scale have become more promiscuous than men. i know that in some relationships i've been in, the idea of celibacy was laughed at by the women, whom basically said they had never met such a man. its hard Sinjin, and its only going to get harder. i guess the alternative is to cease being celibate, in full knowledge that you are transgressing. following this though, without exception, the impact of the transgression is felt in your spiritual turmoil and seperation from God. especially if you are a very spiritual person. those that are routinely not celibate, and appear to be functioning quite well, it would appear have been given up to "base minds", or else how can one explain their repeated immorality. i know i am definitely not one to give advice on this topic, for i am a grave sinner in this department. but i would be the first to attest to experiencing great spiritual turmoil and confusion that accompany my sins.

[Oana Vlad]

Sinjin and Andonis-

Know that neither for women is as easy as it seems. A friend of mine ended a relationship because the guy was asking her to have pre-marital sex. Now that guy is married (with somebody else) and OK while she is lonely and still has wounds because she truly loved him. It`s not only the girls who are superficial!! The quality of one`s soul depends not on his/her gender. So I guess drawing some general conclusions does not lead us to a true answer. Both good men and women are sometimes hard to find.

Oana

[John Wilson]

I was 27 when I got married and I've now been married for 10 years. One of my brothers, who is a year younger than I, only got married last year but to a very special young woman. Mind you, neither my brother or his wife are orthodox. Nor was I when I met my wife (we met in a Baptist church) so we were swimming in a much bigger pool than you are Sinjin. Point of fact is though, that neither I nor my brother were actively seeking a wife at the time we met our future spouses.
Another thing I have learned is that we are required to be celibate within marriage as well as without. By that I mean that when we are married we must be completely faithful to our spouse. As Jesus said in Matthew 5, "anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart". In 1 Corinthians 7, Paul says "...if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.", however do not assume that lustful thoughts will automatically cease when we marry for they do not. Thus it is important that we begin bringing our passions under control now, while we are still single so that we can be truly faithful husbands and wives when we do marry. Married life has many ups and downs and there will be periods when our spouse does not have the same appetite for sex as we do, in fact they may be down right put off by the thought. During times like this, if you have not already won the struggle with your passions, you will in all likelyhood fall into sin. You need not ask how I know this.

I'd like to add what I found to be the most powerful weapon for succeeding in this struggle. The seven weeks leading up to Pascha!

In Christ Jesus, John

[sinjin smithe]

Oana, I know my comments will sound sarcastic but that is the first I have heard of women struggling like that. Your friend is an exception because today many, almost all women would have slept with that man just to get affection. That has been my life experience. On virginity, no wonder that angels marvel at it because it is impossible and for the most part impractical in today's world.

[Owen Jones]

Sinjin,

Despite the sexual revolution, there are still many people who remain virginal prior to marriage,many of them by choice. And there is a growing emphasis on abstinance among many young Christians who see the damage that sex is doing to their friends. It is not as difficult as one might think. It's only when one is totally alone and trying to refrain on the basis of will power alone when it becomes difficult. By the way, both of my daughters have made this choice.

[sinjin smithe]

It's only when one is totally alone and trying to refrain on the basis of will power alone when it becomes difficult.

I know exactly how this is. Perhaps, that is why I find it so difficult to fight. I do not know of any others who are in this fight personally.

[George Hawkins]

Sinjin, surely everyone is involved in this fight. As someone said earlier in this thread, even when you are married it doesn't mean that lustful thoughts cease (forgive me if I have misquoted here). Whether you are married or single, chastity is a struggle, especially so in this day and age where sex is blatant almost everywhere, and people assume you to be strange if you are not 'doing it', when on prime-time TV we have programmes like Sex and the City. In many ways, society seems to have equated lust with love. It is a struggle, and a tough fight, the Devil certainly has an easy job in this respect at the moment in that many people are happy to walk straight into his temptations, it seems like we have lost the will to become one flesh with just one person. Prayer and the Holy Spirit can give us strength to fight, but know it is a tough fight - and maybe this is one aspect of 'suffering', or a cross - to subdue the passions of the flesh.

[Jos Hoskinson]

Sinjin,

Nice Guys are HARD to find.
I believe that to remain a virgin takes strength and a knowledge of who you are and what you stand for.

This is not easy and many are not successful. I'm sure life would appear to be more of a party if you gave up your beliefs but I think you would feel pretty empty. Being a virgin is a choice you make regardless if your future wife is or is not a virgin. Isn't it?

There are girls who do appreciate your positive qualities, when you meet them, you will know.

It sounds like you view intimacy more than just a bodily function. I know of men who believe this way and it allows them to be free with themselves. But, God holds us to a higher standard. Whenever I face such difficult stuggles and the temptation to give up, I gain a deeper appreciation for the sacrifices Christ made.

[Clare]

Andonis, I agree with you. Sometimes I think that I am too picky or that I my standards are way too high. Especially in this era, it is very difficult to find classy, quality women. No one has a problem with sordid moral behavior. No one wants to crucify their flesh, no one wants to submit to God. It is very frustrating.
How strange

[M.C. Steenberg]

From earlier in this thread:


Sometimes I think that I am too picky or that I my standards are way too high. Especially in this era, it is very difficult to find classy, quality women. No one has a problem with sordid moral behavior. No one wants to crucify their flesh, no one wants to submit to God. It is very frustrating.


How strange

Perhaps, yes! I agree that this is a strange assessment, if it's focussed on the female gender. But if it's aimed at both male and female equally, then it seems less strange than sad truth.

So the observation becomes personal injunction.


No one has a problem with sordid moral behavior.
No one wants to crucify their flesh,
no one wants to submit to God.
must become:


I do not have a problem with sordid moral behavior.
I do not want to crucify my flesh,
I do not want to submit to God.
And then there is the grounds for ascetical work and change.

INXC, Matthew

[Clare]

I was being sarcastic.

If you are getting frustrated that no women want to crucify their flesh then give up your search for a wife right now. You have no hope.

We were chuckling about this thread at camp this week.
I think some more women should join in.

I'm going to kick off with a thought on men from a woman's perspective:

Impeccable manners are very attractive.