Romans 9: on 'election'

[Gideon]

I have trouble understanding this passage. I come from an Anglican background and would like to know what the Church Fathers taught concerning election... Thank you.

[Gideon]

"Also, I know that modern Orthodox theologians (in the academic sense of the term) in Dialogue with the Lutherans state that God has not pre-determined what becomes of those who are not elect (I don't remember whether they use that term or not, but it is perfectly biblical -- hence the problem) but rather pre-knew their choice."

It’s a tricky subject; I thank you for your help. I have read the above argued in a book titled “Chosen but Free.” It caused a big stir and I have read many rebuts. Does God elect on the prier knowledge of us accepting His Grace? It remains a mystery for me…

[Donald Wescott]

Just a quick note to say that I agree with Richards advice concerning OrtodoxDynamis and David. I have found thier commentary and David's own personal assistance on a number of matters to be quite helpful. I wholeheartedly recommend subscribing to thier service.(it is free)

I'd also like to say that I have long had a difficult time with the romans 9 passage, and although I don't have a grip on it fully, I am trying to digest what St. John has to say.There is still much to be done in renwing my mind from the former delusion!

[Richard Leigh]

I find I have to reword what I said about human free will being "inviolate." That would put God under a "necessity" again which, of course, can't happen. Better to say that God freely gives freedom of choice to each and every human. That goes all the way and means He likewise freely accepts anyone's freely chosen rejection. That leaves a person responsible for one's own failure, as well as at least partially responsible for one's salvation/soul cure.

Richard