Finding a suitable monastery

[Nick S.]

Hello all,

I've been coming to this site some time now and was hoping to get some good advice. I am currently in the process of finishing up college and in the meantime I am visiting different monasteries to find one to stay in as a novice. I went and visited Holy Archangels monastery in Texas, it is an Athonite monastery. I am going to visit an OCA monastery in California in January. I am drawn to the Athonite monastery because I feel that it is stricter and I guess I feel that the monastery has to be strict for me to grow spiritually. Basically what it comes down to is the temptation I am having of thinking I need to find a monastery "worthy of me" and one that I can become a saint at. I know these are proud thoughts and wrong. Please forgive me. I feel on one hand that no matter how relaxed the monastery is, if you are perfectly obedient, then you can grow and become a saint there. On the other hand, I feel that even so, you still need certain standards to follow at the monastery you go to. I am reminded of how a disciple of Elder Joseph the Hesychast was in obedience to a different elder but Elder Joseph gave him the blessing to go to him for spiritual nourishment while still going to his own elder for obedience's sake (his own elder wasn't that spiritual). This makes me think I have to find a monastery with a very strict elder who is almost a saint to learn from. My spiritual father doesn't want me to go to the Athonite monastery because I don't know greek, which raises another question. Can I know that as long as I go to where my spiritual father directs me, I am where God wants me to be? I ask this because I am under the impression that the idea of obedience to a spiritual father is different for monks than laypeople.

Confused In Christ,

Nick

[Fr Seraphim (Black)]

Dear Nick,

First, there is no confusion in Christ.

Also, your account of Elder Joseph and his disciple is incorrect. If your desire to be a monk is sincere, the Holy Spirit will lead you.

Did not Christ's disciples experience doubt?

[Baroness]

Listen to your spiritual father - he knows better than you. If you have doubts ... let him know. But don't go against his word because what's the point in having a spiritual father if you're not going to take in his advice?

[Nick S.]

I analyze the situation way too much and I don't simply put my trust in God. Please pray for me. I've been praying about this, and I feel better about it. I just need to quit jumping to conclusions and being impatient.

Also, can you give me the correct account of Elder Joseph and his disciple? It was Elder Ephraim of Katounakia I believe.

When I wrote "Confused In Christ", it was more of a half-joking Dear Abby column appellation. I confuse myself, though, at times.

In Christ,

Nick

[Fr Seraphim (Black)]

Dear Nick,

Forgive me. Your 'terminology' of monastic ways, for example, obedience, is insufficient. As for Elder Joseph the Hesychast, I personally know and knew, Elders Ephraim, Joseph (of Vatopedi), the late and very blessed Haralambos and Arsenios. To 'know' the monastic life is to live it in a monastery. Speculation 'outside' will only confuse.

If I sound judgemental or harsh, forgive me, this is not my intention. Nor am I intending 'upmanship' because I happen to have known the disciples, mentioned, of Blessed Joseph the Hesychast.

[Br. Ignatios Agioupaul]

Nick,
Of course you must learn Greek, or at the very least be familiar with the pronunciation, grammer, tempo. If you are young its not too difficult to learn it at the monastery, but if you are old its more difficult, because of the long-term memory. Next is remember to try a monastery in a place where the monks are needed. To come to a monastery on Mt. Athos might not be the best idea, if you're a foreigner. The monastery you try may have had enough of the foreigners for the time being. But in a place like Palestine, they are desparate for monks, and will do everything they can to educate you, guide you spiritually, any sort of help to make you blossom with them. In such a place, your faith in them is just as important as their faith in you, because there is a kind of threat to their right to exist. There are other things too, if you are a student in a university, take some electives that could help. Not just Patristics, there is time for that even on Monachos.net, but practical things like music or voice lessons, training as a medic or basic physical therapy, agriculture, horticulture, building construction even computer science. Do you know how to drive a tractor for instance? If you really have some skills already like a doctor or an engineer, then consider the mission-- Africa, Hong Kong, Latin America the fathers sincerely want to build monasteries there too, and a Mission Bishop might be willing to take you under his holy arms for that very reason. These things make you valuable to a monastery, and because you will feel able to pitch in and help with the chores, your spiritual development won't be so difficult, it will be an ecstacy. I know I'm not your spiritual father, of course, so I say these things from practical experience because I want you to succeed. It is absolutely true you will never walk into a monastery and be asked for a resume, but try to make it easier for your potential brothers who will be with you forever, to fit you in to their particular circumstances. And don't feel you must go into one monastery and go on trial and that's that. Many people take years of visiting a monastery until they know its ways better than some of the monks, then they ask to be made a novice. This too makes it easier for you Abbot to defend you, particularly if you want to enter a brotherhood in another country. I hope this point of view is of some value to you and broadens your mind. If you take the right kind of steps, you will be savoring an extraordinary life in the best of ways, with the full-fledged love of the Panaghia. Of course if you've determined already what you want, follow your heart and you'll simply do the work and get your tonsure wherever God decides beforehand to send you. But take courage, it is a blessed event to experience the calling to monasticism, despite what some people think.
Br. Ignatios Agioupauliti

[Nick S.]

Fr. Seraphim,

Please be as harsh as you want to. I take no offence, but am grateful for the sincere advice.

Br. Ignatios and Fr. Seraphim - since St. John of the Ladder says to "test the spirits" in finding a spiritual father, how much emphasis is one suppose to put on their potential spiritual father's life as opposed to their own obedience? In other words, is it safe to say that any monastery will work as long as I learn perfect obedience? I guess I am concerned that I need to find a certain kind of spiritual father. Please forgive my ignorance and presumption.

In Christ,

Nick

[katya the nurse-aid]

The mountain’s Pick! In front of my fear!
And echo of myself screaming: so near so near…
Long away down, to the place of the start…
I want to run away and to cry and be lost in that dark..
Low and flat there…safe to walk, or even crawl, as a dog…
But not to climb that Pick, do NOT!
But my inside me tells me you are born for that!
Not just see that Pick, but to take it by force!
Oh how this is maybe, what if I’ll make it worst?
Because my desire is to stay on the Top!
But for this I have to climb up on that fighting lot…
Or field of battle, or long run marathon…
To able to reach that place of were I belong…
And I cry and cry and echo screamed into my ears:
Have no fear! Climbed up! The View worth of your tears!

[Fr Seraphim (Black)]

Dear Nick,

I feel Fr. Ignatios gave a very good reply, in all aspects.

Fundamentally, holy obedience, understood in the monastic sense is the priority here. A good Spiritual Father blossoms with an obedient Spiritual Son. Measuring a Spiritual Father, say those at Elder Ephraim's monasteries is not wrong. Elder Ephraim has established in America, true Athonite monasteries, that is, monasteries which follow the Athonite typicon.

To go overseas as Fr. Ignatios points out, it will be necessary to learn Greek, since it is the lingua franca, of Orthodox monks.

If you wish to remain in the States, and you feel drawn to an Athonite typicon, you will find this with Elder Ephraim's monasteries.

Regarding the OCA monastery in California, if you are referring to the Monastery of St. John Maximovitch, I have heard very good things about it.

Pray, pray, pray and the Holy Spirit will guide you.