The ascetic podvig

[Deiniol Clarke]

Hey,

Well I am quite confused about the idea of an ascetic podvig. In other words, how can we lay people, introduce monasticism (or the factors of monasticism) into our life. How do generally "normal" everyday people introduce such an Orthodox Spiritual lifestyle into their day to day lives? How would simple lay people, afford to give away their family (see the ascetic ladder) for Jesus even said: "If a person loves his mother or father more than me, they are not worthy of me!"

I find it very confusing, reading literature, like the "Little Russian Philokalia" and the "Philokalia" when they instruct not only monastics, but lay people to live this so graceful yet harsh way of life. Any advice would be much appreciated!

Yours in Christ Humbly,
Your Brother Deiniol

[Owen Jones]

You may wish to read the chapter "The Desert in Your Own Back Yard" found in the biography of Seraphim Rose -- Not of This World.

The whole problem of spiritual progress has been badly beaten up over the centuries, and has now been politicized. Progress today means social progress. Salvation means, you either are or you aren't, with nothing in between, no progress. That's the problem. If I need to travel from point A to point B, I don't do so all at once. I do so one step at a time. (preparing in advance, of course, for delays and setbacks in my travel schedule).

[Deiniol Clarke]

Dear Owen,

Yes... are you here refering to the ladder of divine ascent - part by part. I'm currently reading this, and it just shows how far away from Christ you can be, yet at the same time so close! This is confusing. Step by step and preparation is the key maybe?

Yours in Christ humbly,
Your Brother Deiniol

[Owen Jones]

When you consider that the only unforgivable sin applies to religious people, then you begin to realize the problem.

[sinjin smithe]

Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but what is the unforgivable sin? I thought that all sins all forgivable unless we choose to not repent from them.

[Richard Leigh]

Big "unless".

Owen's point, no doubt.

R.

[Moses Anthony]

Deinoil,


How do generally "normal" everyday people introduce such an Orthodox Spiritual lifestyle into their day to day lives?

Voluntary poverty, humility, chastity and prayer.

How much time do you spend each day staring at a monitor, either television or computers? Some or all of that time could be spent in prayer(silence too), good works, or spiritual reading.

My usual(I say usual because sometimes I forget to do it)routine begins when I first swing my feet off the bed onto the floor. I cross myself saying, "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Amen. I wash my face, etc; and then say my devotions. If I'm in a hurry at the least I try to say the Trisagion Prayers.

During the day I try to, whenever I've a spare moment, to say the Jesus Prayer. At such times I focus on the words, as when I say the Our Father.As an example; Our Father....hallowed be Thy name... in my thoughts,words, attitudes and deeds.

I attend the services at church whenever possible, even if I'm not feeling spiritual, because at such a time that is the one place I really need to be.

When I'm at my job (either my full or part time one), I try to remember to whatever I do "...do it heartly as unto the Lord, knowing it is from the Lord you will receive the reward.(I fail on this to often). I try to at all times to be firm fair and consistent, avoiding any form of compromise to the witness of my faith. Anger and humility are dealt with there.

As I've said/posted on other occassions, there's much wickedness in our lives (that is God's people), that hinders the spiritual growth we so desperately desire, and the revival so often prayed about.

The religious answer (actually aren't they all religious) to your question is simple: obey the commandments of Jesus/God. We have to first desire to follow Jesus, and when we start that journey towards Him, the closer we get the more we see the filth in ourselves, the more genuine the cry, "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me, the sinner."

When you have a moment of free time, don't fill it with noise, even spiritual singing. Few, if any of us, have been called to be a prophet, but somewhere we have to begin to recognize the voice of God when He speaks to us "...in diverse manners." Sometimes He will use a wife, actually, a lot of time He uses a wife because we husbands tend to look past them for some more ethereal form of communication.
It is understood that there are some things which are practical, that I've not even mentioned. The first point to consider is this; this is a lifestyle that is attainable. With those who lived in the desert and those who walked along the decks of their boats, or stood at the vats of yarn dye, or pulled the lathe in a carpenters shop, the world of the Empire was turned on its ear. Think of how surprised they will be who see Christians living such an ascetic povdig, who aren't dour faced, needing the weekly, monthly visit to their shrink to be victorious and joyful.

Remember, it is possible, and if none of the suggestions seem to fit your situation, ask God how He wants you to undertake this journey.

the unworthy servant

[demetrios karaolanis]

I once read a quote that said "one can be alone, but in the midst of a crowd in his heart, but one can be alone in a crowd" you just need to work to keep a deeply religious state of mind always and to try to practice the things said above.

[Heather Morinelli]

Hello everyone again--

I finally dug up the paragraphs I was searching for, I hope you enjoy this little fable...
From "The Monk of Mouth Athos" by Archimandrite Sophrony, pg 106. (This book is written about St Silouan the Athonite.)

-"The Staretz used to say that there was no end to the pretensions of pride. In his notes I found the following fable:
'A certain huntsman was fond of stalking the woods and fields for game. One day after he had been climbing up a steep hill for hours tracking his prey, exhausted, he sat down on a big stone to rest. Seeing a flight of birds soaring from one summit to another, he began to think: "Why didn't God give me wings that I might fly?" Just then a humble hermit passed by, divined the huntsman's thought and said to him:
'"There you are, sitting and saying to yourself that God has not given you wings; but if you had wings you would still be discontented and say: 'My wings are feeble and I can't fly up to heaven with them, to see what it's like there.' And were you then to be given wings strong enough to lift you to heaven you would still be dissatisfied and say: 'I don't understand what goes on in heaven.' And were you to be given understanding of this you would again be discontented and say: 'Why am I not an angel?' Were you to be turned into a cherubim you would say: 'Why doesn't God let me rule over heaven?' and if it were given you to rule over heaven you would still be dissatisfield and, like another we all know, insolently seek something more. Therefore I tell you, humble yourself at all times, and be content with the gifts you are given. Then you will be living with God."
'The huntsman saw that the hermit spoke the truth, and thanked God for sending him a monk to give him understanding and set him on the path of humility.'

[Archimandrite Gregory]

Almost everything that is written by the Fathers and the monastic Saints is to try and help us to gain some humility. Humility is the door without which no one can gain entrance to the treasury of virtues. I remember a little incident that happened on the day of my priestly ordination. We arrived at the Cathedral (my family and I) and got out of the car. My mother brushed off my cassock and said to me, "Now stand up straight and try not to look too pleased with yourself!" I thought it odd advice on 'my special day' but now many years later I see the great wisdom of her words. No one who is hoping to assume the 'image' and stand 'in persona Christi' is going to make any progress as long as he's too pleased with himself (proud). My mother knew more than me that day...and always will!

He who wishes to be great among you...must be the servant of all!

In His Holy Name,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!

[Ilmari Karimies]

Deiniol,

I think John of the Ladder says, that advancing is possible for laity, but it is harder, comparable to as if your feet were chained together http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif

To myself one of the most difficult things is preserving good habits, when there is no society to encourage you if you are tired.

I do really agree with Archimandrite Gregory. Without humility spiritual practise can only make you a pharisee. On the other hand, I think that when someone is praying sincerely, focusing to his heart and reading good spiritual literature, it should guard him not to think too high of himself. At least I have found, that such litterature as the Ladder works as a mirror to point yourself your sins and vices, so to prevent you from becoming proud.

I think one good procedure is also to pay attention to what things, or lack of them, make you angry. Those are things, which you most likely have a too strong affection to. It's good to think, if they really are that important. I think these are the things, that one should try to battle against first.

I have also pondered such things as loving your wife, family and so on. I think there can be a wrong kind of affection to them. The question is, what would you go through not to lose them? Fear of not being accepted by them can make you do things that are really not beneficial to you, in a spiritual sense. With this kind of things, I think that one should try to free himself of the passion with which we grasp to timely things, as thinking that they are absolutely neccessary for our happiness. We should trust more to God's will and try to seek it; anything else we require comes with that. If God's will is contrary to ours, we should trust, that it is better than ours.

[Clement Alexander]

When you are baptized the grace of the Holy Spirit is seeded in you and if it finds a fertile ground it starts flourishing and the more it grows and flourishes the more your ego diminishes, your empty pride and love of vain-glory fades until it disappears and then all of the sudden one day you can say it is not I but Christ in me, this is the day you enter the kingdom that is inside of you where you live and never taste death.

This is the aim and purpose of all ascetic works and it does not matter if you are a monastic or not, the only difference is, if you are a monastic your struggle will be against demons and thoughts, but if you are in the world your struggle will be against demons, thoughts, and the men of this world, then you really need to say to the Lord: deliver me from the wrongful dealings of men…

These are my thoughts, I say them standing in the middle of the Garden of the Fathers and tasting their fruits.

Forgive my intrusion

[Archimandrite Gregory]

Dear Clement, +GLORY BE TO GOD FOR ALL THINGS! I completely agree with you, I would only add that once the grace of the Holy Spirit is planted in you, you (we) must water it (with prayer and reading of Scripture and the lives of the Saints) and dig around it (with alms and good words, i.e. feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing the naked, and visiting those who are sick or in prison) and weed it well (fasting and ascetic practices), etc. Then the seed WILL grow and, as you said so well, it will eventually not be I who live, but Christ Who lives in me.

In Him Who calls us,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!

[Melissa]

It seems as if the progress toward Lent (Triodion weeks) and then the movement toward Pascha reflect the attitude needed to grow spiritually, day by day.

Reading James Anthony's post above; Archimandrite Gregory's call to humility; and also Ilmari's comments about daily life and relationships; make me wonder if perhaps we're given a special time in the Church year to grow in humility. What a wonder, if we can take it in: being granted some time to see our sins, feel our shame, fear the judgement, ask and offer forgiveness, and end by reaching the glorious Resurrection. Makes my heart lift in hope, even as I yet ask for your prayers...

Ilmari, anything and anyone can become an idol. Love offered to a husband or wife (or family and friends) according to God's Will and purpose, with the Bible and Church tradition providing the model, probably won't end up that way. But that's one reason why we need spiritual advisors - to "keep us honest!"

Melissa

[Rose]

Dear Father Gregory,

Could you please expand on the subject of humility. In my life I find it extremely difficult when being confronted with another's gross faults not to feel a sense of pride creeping up on me. I'm so quick to recognize others' sins. I know I too am a sinner and in many areas a bigger sinner than most, but this still doesn't stop the impluse to think "I don't do that" or "I'd never offend God like that", etc. etc. I don't want to feed this pride and have problems with comparing myself with others.

I've tried praying for forgiveness for those whose actions are so blatantly sinful. But again I'm afraid I'm doing it from what I perceive to be a better plane.

Your advice would be most welcome.
Rose

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

In regard to the last posts-Fr Gregory & Clement; from St Isaac the Syrian,"If, before you have entered into the city of humility, you observe in yourself that you have found rest from the importunity of the passions, do not believe it, for this is a trap of the enemy who strives to ensnare you. Nay rather, await the onslaught of great disturbance and turmoil after this period of rest. For until you have passed through all the dwelling-places of the virtues, you will not find rest from your toil, nor will you have relief from the enemy's treacherous designs until you reach the abode of holy humility. O God, deem us worthy to attain this by Thy grace!" Holy Spirit-Cross-struggle-repentance-humility-Holy Spirit. Resurrection can only follow the Cross.

In Christ- Fr R

[Daniel Jeandet]

If we do not believe that God can save us and teach us and free us from passions while we are living in the world, then we dont believe in the True God but some other, lesser god that we have invented according to our feeble minds and imaginations. Saint Maximus says that the imperfect see God imperfectly and so see him as being imperfect. I think that through our struggle, as we are more and more crushed and humiliated by our failings and weaknessess, we come to have more and more faith in God, and less and less faith in ourselves.

I would reccomend reading the works of Saint Theophan the recluse - "The spiritual life and how to be attuned to it", "The path to salvation", and "The art of prayer".

[Archimandrite Gregory]

Dear Rose, +May HE Who calls us bless your efforts! I would simply suggest that you try not to be attached to your feelings (this sense of pride) and say to yourself something like, "I cannot even do the smallest things well for love of God!" You might also try reminding yourself that anything you ARE successful at, comes from He Who made the universe and you and I out of a lump of clay? The Fathers suggest that whenever we are proud or tempted to be, we should remember that in a few short years, our bodies will be placed in the earth and they will decay and little that we have done will remain with the exception of how much we have tried to know, love, and serve God. For everything good that takes place in our lives, we have only HIM to thank...and for all the sins and messes, we have only ourselves to blame.

Personally, I have found that when I can remain unconcerned by what people think of me or how they treat, then perhaps I am on the correct path at least. Also, when I can accept the "kicks" and "knocks" in life that people send my way and remain unaffected by this, I may be also on the right path. The Fathers say that a good monk is one who is humble and that is much like a dog, no matter how he is treated, either ill or warmly, he accepts it and considers that he does not deserve anything more. May it be so with us!

Rely on the Lord for everything and don't become discouraged (that's from the evil one completely). When you fall---get up and struggle again. Just the fact that you DESIRE holiness is a great grace!

In His Holy Name,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!

[Janice Chadwick]

Thank you, Fr. Gregory, for that last post, especially the last sentence. From one who spends a lot of time getting up after falls, that last sentence is a great encouragement.

I really struggle with being concerned what other people think of me, how do you even start to go beyond that, besides much prayer to overcome that?

[Rose]

Thank you Father Gregory,

Your words are well received.

Rose

[Melissa]

Dear Rose,

I have no advice, but if I may offer another suggestion or two to the excellent ones you've already been given -

One is that whenever I find myself noticing another's sin I immediately assume I'm noticing it because I also have it in some form. I've always been disappointed to find this true.

About humility more generally - I've mentioned this book before on another thread, I think, but I've found it so (painfully) helpful - The Spiritual Psalter or Reflections on God, excerpted by Bishop Theophan the Recluse from the works of our Holy Father Ephraim the Syrian. I think it's generally available from the Orthodox websites, and from Holy Trinity Monastery at Jordanville, but I don't know if their bookstore is on the internet. Father Averky would be likely to know.

Reading this Psalter is a very humbling experience. I have to face my many sins and pretty rampant pride, and yet also, by grace, receive the comfort of some of the most beautiful assurances of the love of God, and His desire to receive our repentant love, and forgive us. On this Sunday of the Last Judgment, these words from the Psalter seem appropriate -"What fear will there be in the day of judgement when every man gives an account of his deeds, thoughts, and even of every time he beckoned with his eyes. Vindicate me on that day, O my Judge, for though I am guilty, I wish to repent." (#42)

And - "My Savior cries out to me, to His disciple: do not despair of thy salvation; I will restore thee and forgive thee thy sins. I have found thee and I will not leave thee; for I have redeemed thee with my very own Blood." (#26)

Even in this most heartfelt response to you, there is the demon of pride, so I am no stranger to the issues you raise.

...for though I am gulity I wish to repent.
Melissa

[Archimandrite Gregory]

You wrote:


"I really struggle with being concerned what other people think of me, how do you even start to go beyond that, besides much prayer to overcome that?"

Dear Janice, +May HE bless you! You ask a very good question and I'm not sure that I can answer it well. My only thoughts are that:

As we have already said, without humility, no other virtue is possible, for if man does not fulfill virtue in a spirit of humility, he will inevitably fall into God-opposing pride, and will fall away from God's mercy.

The Holy Fathers indicated one manner by which the sincerity and depth of humility can be tested:

Begin to reproach a person to his face, for those very sins and in those very expressions in which he "humbly" judges himself. If his humility is sincere, he will hear out the reproaches without anger, and sometimes will thank you for the humbling instruction. If he does not have true humility, he will not endure the reproaches but will become angry, since his pride will rear up on its haunches from the reproaches and accusations.

So, at least you know that if you still have that little 'burning' feeling inside when someone reproaches you, that you have work left to do. So now you begin (with the help of your spiritual father of course) to map out a plan of how you are going to attack these little 'burning feelings of pride.' They come very often during our day and they can be the 'measuring sticks' by which we test our growth. I think one should begin by learning NOT to respond to things that are said about us. Listen, hear well what is being said, and then say something like what we were taught during novitiate, "thank you for your correction" or "thank you for helping me to see this" or something of this sort (and always say this with a nice big smile!). Gradually you become truly thankful (down deep) for such comments and with time there is no 'burning feeling' within. That's a beginning. Perhaps that's enough for today? *SMIILE*

In His great love for us all,
+Father Archimandrite Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!

[Daniel Jeandet]

My friend said something to me recently, he said that - "the devil just wants a reaction".

It made me think, if I have a thought to judge someone, I dont have to follow it up if I dont choose to. If I can cut if off at the level of a thought, its just a suggestion from the devil "a witness to my freedom". I can dwell on the judgement or not. If it comes on strong, with passion, I may have to wrestle. This is the scary part, when we are taken by the sin inside ourselves, but sincerely desire to be free from it. This is the problem with progress, as Owen pointed out. Wrestling with the sin in this way, having passions but resisiting them, is progress. That is spiritul life. Messy, painful, confusing, scary, tragic, all the rest of it. But this is where we go wrong alot I think, and give the devil the reaction he seeks. It is a difficult thing to wrestle with an evil passion charged image or concept, with patience and faith, and with recourse to prayer and turning to the Lord for help and not trying to deal with it ourselves, this is the real engine of spiritual formation. If we get this part wrong, we react, take the bait, and die inside from our own opinion of what happened.

Sometimes the thoughts of evil immediately give life to pride - "me, judging? but im spiritual, religious, how could I?" Thats just the reaction he wants.

Better to say in our little hearts - "forgive me God, what more can I expect from my pathetic self, forgive me this transgression, and help me to forgive, so that I can be forgiven". These are the heavy weapons of the patristic soldiers.

I think when we get really upset or scared by the struggle, we need to see that maybe the enemy is not just trying to get us to judge, or to lust or to give in, he may have a strategy to lead us to despair, or complain, or doubt, because the enemy is a liar, and when he suggests that you are judgemental, or lustful or whatever, he is probably right, but when he suggests that you should not trust God, or that God is not really loving or that sin is victorious and God cant help or whatever, we better be ready to defend our position and fight back with direct action and prove him wrong. direct action being to immediately put our faith and trust into action by turning to God and thanking him and please save us and help us. Sometimes though, the enemy creates a screen of evil thoughts and temptations, so that when he hits us with the real trial, we have forgotton who it is we serve and who serves us. How many times I have been at the edge of despair, locked in my own prison, tormented and screaming inside, mocked and utterly spent. Then I remember, its not me that destroys death, it is Christ who destroys death, Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. These little words. they are light that enlightens even light.

[Fr Averky]

My beloved Friends,

I think that before we start using the term "ascetic podvig" in our lives, we should first learn to do the basics.

I have seen so many consumed by pride after they had, by their own prideful self-will decided to take on labours far beyond their capacity usually after read of them in the Fathers or the lives of the saints. If we are lazy in our prayer, poor in our attendance to Divine Services, weak in our fasting, indifferent to our spiritual reading, and constantly fall back into our old sins and passions again and again, how can we even discuss "podvig." Perhaps because it sounds to romantic.

As Rose so well points out, while on the one hand we would love God, while on the other, we easily pass judgement on our brother, so too is it better to live our lives moderately, not trying to achieve that which is way beyond us. Not just speaking for myself, I know that all of us have a hard time in just fulfilling our simple every day obligations as Orthodox Christians.. If we do not set up goals beyojnd us, we will not fall back so far.

Clkement's words are very good and noble sounding-but the "povig" involved in order to achieve them requires great struggle. After so many years in the monstic life and as a priest, every single day is a struggle to maintain the basics of which I speak. My only podvig is my severe illness, which God in His mercy has sent me. I many times think that if I did not have this Cross, this privelege, I might have perished.

I have never attempted any ascetic labours in my life, for I am so proud, weak, and sinful, that it has only been two or three years since I truly began to accept and to live my poor monastic life.

Years ago, when I was a novice, one Saturday afternoon, I was in Church prepearing for communion, and I became so despondent, I went outside and walked behind the church, where I began to weep. Through my tears, I saw someone waving at me. Soon, I felt a kind hand on my shoulder, and I was asked why I was weeping. I tearfully explained that I would never make it, that I just did not have what it takes to become a monk, that I was a failure.

My beloved Bishop Laurus (now Metropolitan) said, "It is good that you feel as you do, for anything worth having comes only after many tears. You were attempting to rush to your goal, but the Chrsitian life is not like that; At first, we have crawl, like a baby, and like a baby, we have to depend upon those older and wiser than us, who love uis and help us back up when we fall. You ran, and now you have fallen and hurt yourself; take your time, "ttsiga, tsiga," little by little, and one day, you will turn around, and when you look back, you will be amazed at how far you have travelled." I have those words as precious, and now, almost thirty years later, I see how true, wise, and useful his words were.

Great Lent is but a few days away, and let us all strive to be "Podvishniki," great ascetics by fulfilling to the best of our ability, the requirements of the Fast. Let us not complain of being "weak," so we must at least have some milk and butter or a cheese sandwhich. Let us increase our prayers and attend the remorse-filled, yet spiritually uplifting services of our Church. Let us try for once in our lives, toask God's mercy and really mean it. And, as if this mught be our last Great Lent in this life, for it could be so, let us hasten to make peace with anyone with whom we have argued. ask forgiveness of any who have harmed or slandered us, and sincerely ask God in His mercy to soften our cold hearts that we may will really make a firm effort to love our neighbors, to be good to our spouses children and relatives, keeping before us an image of our brevity in this world, that we might have, "A Christian endng to our life, painless, blamess, peaceful, and a good defence before the dread judgment seat of Christ."


I humbly ask your prayers.Last Saturday I once again collapsed, and when one of theFathers came to see how I was feeling, he told me that in twenty minutes, I either passed out or fell asleep no less than ten times. Finally, I was taken by ambulance to the hospital, where it ws found I had lost 19 pounds in two weeks and my blood pressure was 5t/46. By God's mercy, I am better, but perhaps you can see tmy reflection on the brvity of this life and gravity of my words. God bless all of you, and please pray for me as I pray for all of you.

Much love in Christ,

Unworthy
hieromonk Averky