Question on Father Ephraim and his monasteries

[sinjin smithe]

Does anyone have anyone resources on Father Ephraim and his monasteries that he has founded. I have heard that he is a controversail figure and that his monasteries are more like cults than anything else. Does anyone know or have any comments on him? I would be interested in hearing them.

[David Galloway]

Sinjin,

Basically the situation is that one young man decided to become a monk and his parents feel that Fr. Ephraim has an unnatural influence on the young man, who is now a priest. His parents tried to force him to leave the monastery, and upon his refusal, hired a cult deprogrammer to try to "reclaim" their son. The son's side of the story can be found at www.athosinamerica.org (http://www.athosinamerica.org)

That site also has links to the monasteries Fr. Ephraim established in the US, including the principal monastery St. Anthony the Great in Arizona.

Hope this helps.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Sinjin,

The criticisms made of Fr Ephrem and his monasteries are purely secular, and wholly groundless to all but those who feel that modern secularism and humanism are of more authority than Christ and the teachings of the Church.

Prayers are needed for those people who so misguidedly, yet so vehemently, attack the monastic life. But we may be thankful that Fr Ephrem has the discernment to know that fostering such life is God's will, and not his; and thus that such criticisms can simply be ignored.

INXC, Matthew

[John Simmons]

I have made a couple of visits to St. Anthony's

Monastery and saw Elders Ephrem and Paisios. It is a grace-filled Athonite style monastery that is not very different from traditional monasteries on the Holy Mountain and around the world. Elder Joseph of Vatopedi (who is also a spiritual son of Elder Joseph the hesychast as is Elder Ephrem) testified to the quality of Elder Ephrem's spiritual eldership and what has been in fact accomplished in this country is nothing short of miraculous.

We expect to see the attacks of the enemy hurled against such work, and it is sad that those who equate Orthodoxy with the contents of "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" do not recognize traditional monasticism when they see it. I am just re-reading "The Brothers Karamazov", and in it, Dostoyevsky remarks at how even at the height of the 19th century Russian revival which came from the work of St. Paisius Velichkovsky, Eldership was suspect as being an innovation (even though it can clearly to be seen in Church history to be the bedrock of monastic, prophetic and spiritual development throughout the Church).

This is not to say that pseudo-eldership and counterfeits for this do not exist. They do and are most dangerous to the life of the Church and spiritual children who trust such a "pseudo-elder".

John

[sinjin smithe]

Thank you all for responding. So then, Fr. Ephraim is not running 'a cult' at all but it is being unjustly accused by Rick Ross and company. The thing is, I don't understand why other Orthodox christians would make such allegations and give monasticism such a bad reputation.

[Moses Anthony]

Sinjin,
The reason you look for is explained in Holy Scripture in this language; "...For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing". (James 3:16)

tus

[Rev. Hieromonk Averky]

Father Ephraim has had spiritual children in this country for some time. When I was pastor at a parish in Milwaukee, WI, in 1983. a follower of Fr. Panteleimon warned me against him, calling him a "False Elder." {!} He ran into difficulties when he first attempted to found Athonite type monasteries in this country. He for a brief period of time joined the Church Abroad, but when he went to the Phanar to explain his position, he ran into real problems; his passport was cancelled, and he had to remain on Mt. Athos almost as a prisoner for a time. He then was allowed to return and found monasteries and convents. He is held in high esteem by many simple and pious Greeks, but has opposition from most local bishops because , for instance, he firmly believes that all converts should enter the Church by Baptism. Alas he does not permit English in his services. His situation is rather difficult in that he is a Traditionalist in a Church which is more , shall we say, modern in its views. I would not say his is a cult, like the group in Boston, but people with his charisma sometimes attracts people who are looking for a "Guru," or "Sacred Elder." These people become "groupies," running from monastery to monastery., ever-seeking advice. They do not want particularly to follow the advice that they receive, they just like to gather it.

[Herman Blaydoe]

The holy efforts of Geronda Efrem were targetted primarily as part of the campaign against Archbishop Spyridon of the GOA. Fr. Efrem was painted as a cultic reactionary who had the blessing of the Archbishop, being thus just "another reason" to depose the Archbishop for allowing this "dangerous" monk to run around causing turmoil in local Greek churches.

[Owen Jones]

The above post is not accurate. There were people who were opposed to Archibishop Spyridon who were extremely supportive of Fr. Efrem's monastery and raised money for it. The ARchbishop was opposed by many who were not liberals who branded the Archbishop as a "reactionary," but because of his personality flaws, his appearance of corruption regarding money, these types of things. There were quite a few millions of dollars that had been raised for purposes within the ARchdiocese which the Archbishop wanted personal control of, much of it to be sent to the Patriarch. The people who donated this money to be spent in America were rightly incensed at what they perceived to be a breach of contract with them. The new Archibishop is not some raving liberal as far as I can tell. But he appears to have a more pastoral manner and some humility.

[Fr Averky]

Dear Owen,

Even though I am not in the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese, I agree with you in respects to Archbishop Demetrios. From reading his epistles and simply by contact with my clergy friends in that Church, he is readily seen to be modest, humble, meek and very loving, and I sincerely believe that he has had a very positve spiritual impact on the Greek Church in this country, and I pray that God will grant him many years!

Fr. A.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Dear Owen,

All that notwithstanding, it certainly can be said that Fr. Efrem got splattered from the campaign against Spyridon. It was primarily a group of anti-Spyridon detractors that publicized a great deal of mistatement, misinformation, and innuendo concerning Fr. Efrem to the internet in a variety of fora and websites. Without their concerted effort most of this negative information would never have seen the light of day.

In my limited dealings with Archbishop Spyridon, he seemed like a sincere servant of Christ. Beyond that I cannot say.

[Owen Jones]

I met Spyidon and my reaction was the same. But first impressions can be misleading. In any case, I didn't have a horse in that race. The formation of monasteries depends primarily on the blessing of diocesan bishops (now metropolitans I think they are called). I think there is a general feeling that this will continue. And Fr. Efrem is a big boy. I'm sure he can handle such problems as Church politics.

[Ronald J. Brotzman]

My dear friends. I had the water-shed experience of doing a ten day pilrigmage to St Anthony's. The Elder and the Abbot Paiasios were wonderful to me an Antiochian convert. If this is a cult let it be so. I founs such wonderful people there. Fr. Mark, a very spiritual man who looks a great deal like a movie star,the hospitalitarian; Fr. Simeon, the humble but well educated manager of the book store, Fr Menias who runs the entire plant. This place is a place of great beauty. It chapels and Cathalicon are stunning. The vineyards, the citrus orchards, are all eye opening, but the placement of prayer, the worship of God within the context of a botherhood of men. When I got back to the Phoenix airport, I did not want to come back to Denver, my hectic life as an attorney. I will go back hopefully time and again. The blessing of this man is worth something to the soul, I think jealousy and what it creates are the basis of the problems. I hear that the Archbishop of Canada had a great fear of this diminutive little man, why I do not know. We are graced to have him here in the US. Do not hestitate to go see the monastery, even for a day it is worth it.

[Jest In Case]

Dear Ronald,

You are correct in observing that Fr. Markalus of St.Anthony's looks a "great deal like a movie star." Michael J. Pollard, Mel Brooks, Marty Feldmann, Rodney Dangerfield, Ernest Borgnine -- all movie stars! (Love you Fr. Markalus.)

[Jest In Case]

Ronald,

You are right: Elder Ephraim's blessing makes the trip worthwhile. (He may not be six feet tall, but he's got many who are six feet tall hoping for his blessing and kissing his hand!) They run a tight ship, and thus the place is beautiful.

[Fr Averky]

Dear Ronald,

Thank you for an inspiring description of Fr. Ephraim's monastery. He has a men's monastery about two hours from here, and I hope to visit it within a week or two there are two convents in PA, and many of our pious women love to go there. what is your Orthodox name, if I may ask, so I can put it in my book of names of people to pray for.

In Christ,

Fr. A.
who does exist

[Photini]

Good morning all,

Father Ephraim founded two of the monasteries that are within reasonable distance from me. There is both a women's and men's monastery. I just cannot express how beneficial our visits have been each and every time we go. I always arrive with many worries, and leave with a peaceful heart. I wish I could live closer.

With love in Christ,
Photini

[Fr Averky]

Dear in Christ Photini,

It is a part of Orthodox Church history that when monastics fled into the deserts or the deep forests in order to seek solitude, in time people would find them out and come to them seeking solace and direction. Sighing deeply, the monks allowed it, for the salvation of both; the laity in receiving comfort, and the monastics for patience and long-suffering. In either cases, both grew spiritually, thus it has been allowed by our Saviour.

Years ago when I was a novice, I mildly complained to an older woman who frequented the monastery that when I came here, it was with the intention of fleeing the world. And she said, "Yes, Brother N., but when we who live in New York City and other large cities, surrounded by crime, dirt, noise, and every imaginable evil can no longer take it, we get into planes, cars, buses, or trains, and flee to this spiritual garden. For us, even to see the monastics walking around and especially in church, gives us such comfort. So, you have had to give up much, but God will richly reward you for your patience with us."

As we parted company, I glorified God that He had given me such a wonderful lesson that day, and from thn on, I always greeted that woman with love and respect whenever she came to visit our litttle monastery.

If it is possible for you to move closer to a monastery, try to do so.

Fr. A.

[Andonis]

hello all,

its been a while since i posted. i have just returned from 2 weeks at Vatopedi monastery in Mount Athos. it was trully an amazing experience. Seeing Monasticism lived this way left me completely awe struck. the monastic life gives true testimony of all those things Christ spoke about. self denial, brother hood, constant prayer, unending thirst for God. it saddens me to think that Monastic life is slandered. it certainly requries a special calling, but just because its a glove that doesn't fit some individuals, doesn't mean that it is not of value and of spiritual importance. it made complete spiritual sense to me. you cannot approach an understanding of monstasticism using logic alone, similarly God cannot be understood though logic alone, but require the nous which lies in the heart. the elder at Vatopedi geronda Ephraim, and the senior geronda Iosif, a spiritual child of Joseph the Hesychast are amazing people, and it was a blessing indeed to spend so much time with them. another blessed gift from God, whom in his mercy and love provides way in excess of what i deserve.

it saddens me also that my love for monastic life has been so vehemenlty attacked, ever since returning to the world by my parents and relatives. the devil is amazing in his cunning.

they give me the impression that they would sooner see me become a gambler, a drunk, a womaniser anything but becoming a monk. i don't judge them for this, i only hope that God in time enlightens them so that they can see more deeply into the truth.

as for me i can't wait to return. i grew to love Vatopedi and its monks, and pray that God provides me soon with the opportunity to return. and if one day God was kind enough to grant me the blessing and the grace to become monk, i would consider myself incredibly lucky, to receive such a calling.

in Christ
Andonis

[Fr Averky]

Dear Adonis,

Welcome back! I am so happy to hear of the blessedness you experienced on Mt. Athos. It is one of those places which plants itslef in your heart and stays there. I remember when we stopped at a little skete on our way from Iveron monastery on our way back to St.

Elias Skete Two monks lived at this small kellion, one old Greek, and a younger Arab. The building was "L" shaped; It had a small church in Russian style, and the longer section was their kitchen and their tiny cells. The holy monks invited us to rest, and brought us the usual water, loukuomi, and Greek coffee. We sat on a bench, and the view looked right at Mt. Athos, which had a few clouds up around the peak. We could not stay long, for the sun would be setting soon, but I will never forget the serenity and spiritual peace I experienced sitting with those two monks.

I am also not surprized by the reaction of your family. It is almost irrational, but people want their children to marry and have a family. Alas, there are those who by their actions, who have given monasticism a bad name, but the vast majority of monks are simply struggling to save their souls, and to pray for the world. If the seed of the monastic life has been planted in your heart Adonis, no one or nothing will be able to stop you. At any rate. let this be an opportunity to take a good look at you present life, and at least make a firm comittment to live a better Orthodox Christian life, in faith, in belief, in purity, and in prayer and good works. If you think that you might like to be a monk, then slowly withdraw from those worldly activities which cause you spiritual distraction.

I am so happy that you are back, for you have started some of the best threads I have followed on Monachos. I do not think that I will ever be able to travel to Greece again, but I have many good memories olf the time I spent there. Keep me in your prayers!

In Christ,
Fr. Averky

[George Hawkins]

Welcome back, Andonis!

You must have had many wonderful experiences while in Greece. If it is God's will I would like to visit the Holy Mountain too one day.

Like many others,I am sure, I am looking forward to reading about some of your experiences on Athos!

In Christ,
George

[John Wilson]

I can't say welcome back Andonis because we have only just finished saying goodbye http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/sad.gif, but I have a very strong impression that we will be seeing a lot more of you in the near future (in Greece).

It was a wonderful blessing meeting you face to face even if it was only for a few hours altogether. We miss you already. It is sad that your family are unable to see the blessings of monasticism but then it was expected that the devil would use them against you. We too pray that God will enlighten them for it makes for a heavy heart when we are unable to share what brings us so much peace and joy with those we love most dearly. At least you can take courage from the fact that you share your experience with probably the majority of young men and women who have shown an interest in monasticism, especially those who became monks and nuns. You also have and entire monastery praying for you now http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/biggrin.gif

I would also like to extend an invitation to everyone on this forum to consider our home as a sort of halfway house on your way to Mt. Athos if you ever plan of going to the holy mountain. This includes those of you who are not (yet) Orthodox (I wasn't for my first two visits). I am slowly building up a bit of a network of contacts on the holy mountain and can probably help smooth out a lot of the potential bumps involved in getting there and back.

In Christ,
John.

[Richard Leigh]

Dear Andonis,

Of course, welcome back. I am more interested in your experiences "here" now that you're back, than when you were "there."

You find you are now under attack? You were only under "guard" before, but now you've "moved" and your "watchers" are so concerned lest they lose you that they've called in assistants.

Remember the admonition to agree quickly with your enemy, and be extremely careful of denial.
It never hurts to repent a suggestion of sin, it only seems to, and that felt need for self defense is the first clue to who's really in charge. But we know Who you want to be in charge!

Blessing and strength for your journey,

Richard

[Owen Jones]

I would caution against demonizing one's parents because they don't want you to be a monk. We are commanded to honor and obey our parents. It could be the demons are leading you to the sin of pride by leading you to believe that you are somehow superior to your parents. You should honor and respect your parents' opinions. Although you must find your own way, you should do so in a way that does not express pride or superiority. You should be very appreciative of their opinions, even if you do not now agree with them.

[Justin]

I recently started reading A Collection of Letters to Nuns (Profitable Instructions For Layman and Monastics) by Saint Anatoly of Optina, and by chance (if I can use such a word) I happened to have been reading some letters from him to someone who was considering becoming a monastic. What he says might be helpful or edifying to post here:


"Peace to you and the blessing of the Lord, A.! You write that your mama and grandpa are glad about your desire to join the choir of holy and wise virgins. I, too, rejoice and am comforted by your decision. And how can we not rejoice over you when even the angels in Heavens rejoice over such a work? 'Blessed is he whom Thou hast chosen and taken to Thyself' (Ps. 64:4), O Lord! Especially in youth! As for the speeches of those who love the world--forget about them. Concerning them, the Lord Who is eternal love incarnate said, 'Let the dead bury their dead' (Matt. 8:22). It is not given to them to know the mysteries of the Kingdom; their joys and delights are from the earth and will depart with them into the earth...

Do not be downcast on account of your weakness and inexperience... God loves you much more than you can imagine. And here is the best sign of this: you are sad when the topic of conversation is worldly but rejoice when the conversation is about spiritual things. Where did you learn this? God placed the spark in your heart. So be careful--do not quench it! Your fearfulness is natureal. It happens even with those who have lived in the monastery for along time. A man who is untried is unpracticed. your mother is having you wait a year to test your aptitude for monasticism--but how can you be making trial of it without even seeing the convent? Wouldn't it be better to spend this trial year profitably in the convent?" - Letter 175


"About 50 years ago I was studying Greek anecdotes in my reader. there was one story there about how a certain scholastic very nearly drowned while bathing. After that, he wouldn't go near any water until he learned to swim. In the same way you want to learn how to swim on dry land--that is, to learn monasticism at home, in town. Plenty of opportunities for it--especially at the time of the fair. Better try monasticism in a monastery. In any case, it is better to live for a while in a holy convent, even if it is just as you are, as a guest." - Letter 176


"Do not be angry with your relatives. They do not undestand us. If one were to put them through what we go through, they would find out how hard it is here." - Letter 186


"Pray to God, to St. Nicholas and to all the aints, and beg your grandpa to fix you up. It is a pity that you are not happy. But at least you recognize the value of monastic life. Wordly people swarm around without any consciousness of what they are doing, like worms burrowing in the dirt. All they do is look at other people's weaknesses and judge monastics as worthless--whereas they themselves have no conception of monasticism. And even concerning God and the future life, they speak alluding to books read long ago or even simply off the top of their head... Ask your grandpa for [money for] a new cell, that is, to build one! Save yourself! I ask the blessing of the Lord for you and your relatives!" - Letter 187


"What a pity!... Not so much for you as for your grandfather. If he withholds what you need, he will lose it ten times over. St. Basil the Great severely threatens with the wrath of God those who deprive their relatives of their fair share. And so do the other holy Fathers. In the minds of lovers of the world the idea has formed that the moment a monk has been numbered with Christ's flock, he is obliged, in their opinion, to sleep on the ground, eat food fit for animals, and to endure everything, as if this chosen one of God had committed some terrible crime. Mindless ones! We see that holy ascetics suffered affliction--but neither kings nor princes who were pious forsook them but generously sent them gold and bread" - Letter 188

(There's also many other letters that discuss relatives)

[John Wilson]

Dear Owen,

I hardly think Andonis is demonizing his parents. Unfortunately many parents still think of God's blessings in wordly terms such as stable income, marriage and children (though God does richly bless the latter two) and since their focus is not in heaven but in the world, they lose sight of the big picture, the fact that the purpose of this life is to attain eternal life in the next. The devil is going to use this misguided love of the parents to his advantage when attacking the prospective monastic. He can, because the parents' desires for their child is not of the Holy Spirit.

Greece is richly blessed with monasteries, yet despite being an Orthodox country, the number of people who regularly visit these monasteries is actually quite small when you consider the population of Greece. So even amongst Orthodox Christians there are many who do not properly appreciate monasticism. My wife and I personally would consider it the greatest of blessings if all of our children were to enter monasteries. If that is God's will for our children then we accept it gladly because ultimately we want nothing more for them than their salvation. If they were to marry and have children we would consider them, and ourselves, equally blessed. I understand though that those who think as we do are few in number.

As for pride and the attitude of spiritual superiority, they are always a danger, however Andonis has just come from spending over two weeks with men who are the epitomy of meekness and humility. Pride cannot bear such company and quickly flees from us when we are surrounded by people such as these. Remember too that they at Vatopedi are now all praying for Andonis and we know that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much. I do not think we have much to fear for Andoni's sake.

In Christ,
John.

[Fr Averky]

Dear Adonis,

The quotes given to you about monasticism and one's relatives are very good, and read them carefully. Owen, I do not think that Adonis is "demonizing" his parents-it is very hard, even for Orthdox parents to have a son, and lose hopes of his having children to carry on the family's name. Perhaps Adonis has brothers, this I do not know. I have two brothers, or rather had, they have reposed, one only last Fall, but still my mother was quite upset when I decided to enter the monastery. We even read in the lives of the saints that in may cases, the person who desired to be a monastic had to sneak away from the family home, and only after they had been tonsured did their parents relent.

Adonis, all I can tell you from my own experience is for you to take a look at your heart, and pray for God to show you the way. From the posts of yours that I have read, I really believe that you could be a monk. But let me tell you this; if you really believe in your heart that that is what you want to do, if you want to leave the world behind, then do it, and do it soon. In Orthodoxy, we do not have a "vocation:" we go to the monastery because we finally and fully realize that it is the only place where we are going to have the possibility to save ourself. In the greater sense, Antonios, God chooses us, for as our Lord said "many are called, but few are chosen." Look at the rich young man of the Gospel who was offered by the Saviour Himself to be a disciple, but because he could not give up the comfort of this world, he could not do it. And again I say to you, if you want to be a monk, sell all you have, give it to the poor, and go as soon as possible!

From the time I decided to become a monk and the time I finally made it here was a period of about six years. In that rather short time, I had experiences and committed sins which were to make my living in a monastery sheer hell for the first several years, for I longed for my "freedom" and the loss of my "free will., giving up all that money and all my fine things, the wonderful dinner parties and outings with good friends." I am not speaking to from something I have read, I am telling you what I learned from bitter experience. Blessed is the man, who heeds the words of our Lord, "Come follow Me," and not looking back, takes his soul and runs to the monastery! If it is God's will for you to become a monk. He will soften the hearts of your parents and relatives. Pray, and pray with all your heart, and be assured of my poor prayers for you.

We just celebrated the 100th anniversary of the canonization of St. Seraphim of Sarov. Get his life and read it, for he is an outstanding example of true monasticism, and he could speak to someone and read his heart and look into his soul, and give him blessed advice. He lived in solitude in the forest where he fed a bear who came to him, and when he had no bread, they both would go hungry. He prayed on a rock for hundreds of days, was beaten nearly to death by robbers, but when he returned to his monastery, God commanded him to see to the spiritual needs of others, and from then on, he helped literally thousands. It was by reading his holy life that I decided that one day I would enter a monastery. I got this life from Frs. Herman and Seraphim Rose -of course Fr. Seraphim bore the name of that great saint.

Adonis, pray to the holy monastic saints of Mt. Athos and to all the Holy Mothers who lived lives of ascetic labours and in holy purity. No matter what sins you have committed, God has forgiven you, and how heaven will rejoice if you give your heart to God as a struggler for His sake. Especially pray to your heavenly patron, St. Anthony the Great, for perhaps it was no accident, but the Providence of God that you should bear the name of one of the greatest of all monastic Fathers. Again, be assured of my poor prayers, and I will ask the Fathers here and the nuns in our convents here, in France, and in the Holy Land for you. I will also pray for your dear parents that they in God's time will receive joy and consolation in finally realizing that their dear son will be on the road to salvation, that he has chosen the "better place" and that he will one day the don the Angelic Habit, and strive to live the Angelic Life.

Your well wisher in Christ,

Unworthy
hieromonk Averky

[Andonis]

once again, thank you to all for your God blessed replies. Owen, thank you for your firm and sound advice. it is true that one must always remain humble in their pirsuit to become a monk, if that is God's calling. it is wrong to assume that one is somehow superior because of this calling, and one should encounter others with the utmost humility. i will do my best to not become puffed up with pride.

Richard, yes i do feel the battle is much more intense now, and the devil is using far more resources to try and divert my attentions, and make me give in to my passions. i am constantly under attack by my relatives now, when i see them. before i went to Mt Athos they where moderately against monasticism. now they have begun to attack me with all sorts of insults, thinking that this will somehow change my opinion (i love them dearly and know they do this only out of misguided love.) i sit in silence and listen without ever giving a reply, lest the evil one also use my words as bait to further destroy my chances to return to the holy garden of Panagia. my logisms are now of much greater intensity. they are doing their absolute mightiest to avert my concentration on God. they want me to love the world, but everywhere i look i see vanity and emptiness. may God forgive me if i am stating this out of ignorance and pride. after all i am nothing other than a miserable sinner...

John, you took the words completely out of my mouth, thank you, thank you , thank you...

Father A. once again i thank you so much for your kindness and encouragement. i too feel that i am leaning towards monasticism every day more and more. i am praying that if this is what God wants from me, that i can return to the holy mount as soon as possible. my poor parents think that i am actually under the influence of the devil and that i seek to destroy them emotionally. they want me to seek professional help. i pray that the virgin Mary can soothe their pain and clear their confusion. the monks warned me that on my return to the world the devil would set all sorts of obstacles now that i have developed a greater zeal for monastic life. this is why i ask you brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for me, for i am weaker than most of you, and i know that the devil will pounce on me given the right circumstances in order to anihilate me spiritually so that i can surrender my arms, and become a prisoner of death...i don't want to paint too black a picture, because i feel despite all this, God is giving me added strength, and he rewards any efforts by giving me inner solace and the chance to learn to love, more and more each day.

i will pray, thats all i can do, i will pray...

Unworthy
Andonis

[John Wilson]

they want me to seek professional help

Seeing as priests are the only professionals I know of who deal with people under the influence of the devil, I think you can heartily agree to their terms. Although when they don't get the results they are looking for they will probably seek a second opinion, and then a third, ...

I have to admit that I am somewhat taken aback at your parents attitude and the response of your relatives. I wondered at how you would put up with this but then realised that this is probably the lesser of your struggles, the more difficult struggle being with your thoughts or logismoi. You have been given the tools to deal with these but I presume there is danger involved since you aren't able to have frequent confession and guidance from a spiritual elder. You have, after all, next to no experience in dealing with this, although I believe that in those two weeks on the mountain, you surpassed any gains I have made in the last few years (don't get proud though, you could lose it just as quickly and end up worse off than before). Were the monks at Vatopedi able to refer you to a priest near where you are staying for the remainder of your time in Greece?

Needless to say, I will be praying for you and your family.

In Christ,

John

[Fr Averky]

Dear in the Lord Adonis,

Well, be be at peace. To be frank, that you are suffering such a heated and unpleasant reaction from your parents and relatives is a good sign, for the Devil is doing all he can to stop one more soul from fleeing his kingdom and desiring the heavenly kingdom instead.

How many lives of monastic saints involve the bereaved family doing all they can to stop the young person desiring the Angelic Life. When St. Sava of Serbia ran away and became a monk, his parents were besides themselves, and sent soldiers to bring him back. St. Sava's father was a powerful king, and of course, he expected his beloved only son to rule after him. The parents of other monastic saints went to their monastery and dragged the home, but in time, their hearts softened, and they gave in, and many in time themselves ended their lives in monasteries.

Continue not to argue with your friends and family, but humbly submit to their "blows" for the sake of Christ. This will be an excellent time to say the Jesus Prayer, crying out in your heart to our Saviour to give you the strength and the determination to fulfill your blessed intention. Ask our Most Pure Mother, the Ierondissa of all monastics, to cover you with her mantle, and to ask her Divine Son to give you the courage to give up this world and to live your life repenting for your own sins, and to pray for those of us surrounded by the evil and darkness of the world. I prayed for you into the night, and I hope that you will be brave.

When Blessed Xenia of Petersburg witnessed how her husband, a young military officer, suddenly dropped dead at a card party on a Saturday night., she then took upon herself the "podvig" of being a Holy Fool for Christ's sake. She and her husband were quite wealthy, but she began to give away all of her fine furniture, beautiful silver, all of her money, and so on to poor passers by. Alarmed by this, her relatives also thought that she had gone mad with grief and took her to physicians and even to court to stop her from her "insane" actions. After spending many hours with three judges and then a renowned physician, she was declared to be perfectly sane, and it was firmly decided that she could do whatever she wanted with her possessions.

She gave everything away, and then began a long life of homelessness. Once, a middle aged woman and her aged mother were sitting on their front porch. All of a sudden, Blessed Xenia ran up to the younger woman and shouted to her, "Come, come, come right away, your son needs you right now!" The startled woman, knowing that she was not married, and most likely never would marry, out of respect for the holy one. ran down the street after her. When they reached the corner, there was a crowd standing around a pitiful sight; a young pregnant woman had been run over accidently by a carriage, and she had died while giving birth to a beautiful baby boy. Blessed Xenia handed the child to the woman, and for weeks an official invistigation was made as to who and where from the unfortunate girl was from. It was never determinded, and the woman took in the child, raised him, and he in turned loved her with all his heart, and he was the comfort of her old age.


Thus, when we are seen "mad" when viewed through the eyes of this fallen world, we have to look to our only invincible Ally-our Saviour. If the monastic life is what you truly desire Adonis, bow your head to God, and simply but in truth, hand over your heart, your soul, and your will to Him. Believe me, He will take care of the rest. As Owen said, repect your parents, and just keep praying that God will send His angel, in whatever manner to enlighten and comfort them. Remember that nothing in this life that is worth having does not come without struggle, dissappointments, and many doubts, fears, and many, many tears. One of my favorite monastic sayings is: The path to monasticism has many thorns,but Oh, the roses! God bless you young man, God bless you.

Respecfully in Our Saviour,

hieromonk Averky

[Richard McBride]

monochos: demonizing

In thinking of my own sins, I have found it all too easy to impute demonic influence in the situations which oppose me. Yet, I realize that this is a judgment which, in my case, I have neither been called upon to make, nor have I received the Grace to indulge it. Discovering and fighting with the demonic forces, as we do, makes these calls too easy to fall into, when it is inappropriate.

Similarly, I appreciate what Seraphim had to say in his, "caution against demonizing" message. And it seems that Adonis also appreciated that wisdom. Adonis, as we have seen before, is not all that easily discouraged. Instead, he seems to use and enjoy his steadfast spirit. He works those energies to advantage, and he clearly seemed to benefit from Seraphim's words.

I also hope that those who were quick to make judgments about that same message, and offering further judgments on the devil's influences over parents, may realize that those quick generalizations may not be all that wise. When we generalize such situations against parents, then it begins to seem like a bashing session which may read well on the monastic bulletin board, but is otherwise unfortunate.

Not everyone is called to be a monastic. I cannot tell who may be so called. It seems that this is clearly a matter to be indulged between the potential novitiate and the Holy Spirit. So, instead of infusing dissention into a private affair, I rather think it is appropriate to pray for the parents who struggled with us all; and close as we have been to them and their decisions, to pray that we not make judgments even upon their actions toward us. In stead, pray for those parenets who still live, and for those who have reposed. And I can use any prayers anyone might offer me in helping my own grown children -- for to a parent, their child is always their child.

[Fr Averky]

Dear in the Lord Richard McBride,

I do no know to whom you might be referring when you are discussing that it it might not be wise to impute demonic influence....What I personally am talking about is that the Evil One does not wish to see any of us, either monastics or laypeople enter on to the path of salvation. I also think that it does not serve us well to poh-pooh the idea that the Devil might have his hand in difficulties we might experience, because, that is his greatest and most effective weapon-that he does not exist, or that he is small and weak. I am not rebuking you dear professor, I am just pointing this out.

I personally feel that as a monastic, I wish to urge others to take up that special cross , and in the case of Adonis, I have been following his posts some time now, and I see his longing and his struggle-against his own fallen nature. I see in him that very real desire to overcome the many failings that he has openly and honesly discussed on this forum.

Believe me Richard, with all respect to you dear sir, I would not usually make bold to advise Adonis as I have, but I do. I have lived this life many years, and as you as a learned professor of many years know, there are certain people, when you encounter them , that you know that they will do well in such and such a pursuit.

As to Adonis' parents, as I said in my first post to him, I understand perfectly-I went through this twice, once when I entered the Roman Catholic seminary, and the second time when I entered my present monastery. My dear mother was a devout and very pious Catholic, but since I was her youngest child, she thought that she would "lose" me if I decided to serve God. Beloved Mr. McBride, I am speaking from my own experience, and in my urging Adonis to go quickly, it is from long observing situations in which young people who desired to be a monastics were pressured out of it, and to this day, know that that is what they should have done. Some got married, but still are waiting until their children are grown, so they can finally do what they have felt all along what God called them to do.

Of course, we all have to pray that Adonis will be sensible, that he will not just be infatuated with the monastic life, for when one is a visitor, he sees the beautiful bloom of the rose - he does not see all the sweat and toil, the intense heat of all the passions, and the cold of spiritual dryness, and the sharp thorns that one had to endure in order for the rose to reach its full maturity. More than thirty years ago, I was writing to a small monastery in Walsingham, England, and when I expressed my desire to go there and be a monk, the abbot told me "Be sure that you buy a round-trip ticket, and leave enough money in savings to start over again in case that it does not work out for you here.

I am not intending to fill Adonis with pie-in-the sky ideas that the monastic life is romantic and a lark. It is very difficult and only a few make it. Yet, Dear Professor McBride, in this case, I felt safe enough to urge him to make the move if he is convinced that that is what he wants. One thing I will tell you is this; when a person has been in a monastery for a while, say a year, he begins to see that he came to the monastery for all the wrong reasons-and now, he must struggle to stay for the right ones.

Adonis, a person does not enter a monastery to run away from himself or his sinful life-no, he goes to a monastery to find himself and to beg God to reveal to him the depth of his sinfulness. When we are living in the world with all its stress and complications, God covers our sinfulness for us, thus we all have "blind spots" and we cannot see our sinfulness in all of its ugliness. The monastic life requires that God expose to us just how sinful we really are, and then it is our task, with God's grace and help, to cleanse ourselves of that sinful burden we have carried around all our lives.

Dear Professor MCBride, be assured of my constant poor prayers for you and all members of your family. Let all of us pray for Adonis and his loving parents that if it is God's holy will that he go to the monastery to seek his salvation, that all will work out for the best. Plesase, let us not list ourselves with those who would discourage him. Let us pray that God's will be done.

With love and respect,

hieromonk Averky

[Fr Averky]

Dear All,

I read Adonis' initial post, and I do not see in any way how he felt "superior" or was demonizing them or his relatives. He said that it seems that his family would rather he lead a "normal" life, which can to some be seen as a life without conscience, and to forget the spiritual life. This is no demonic delusion. This is indeed the "cunning" of the devil, not perhaps directly through Adoni's relatives, but in that they, like all of us, unwittingly have fallen into the trap of desiring the things of this world. Anyone these days who desires to be more serious and does not want to concern himself with having two or three cars, at least two homes, a television in every room and a multitude of electronic gadgets is seen as being a little "weird."

Adonis expressed his willingnes to be patient with his family, and did not utter a single unkind word about them, but now, they want him to seek "professional help."

I am sorry, but I will not accept that Adonis has either been disrespectful to his relatives, or in any way has acted as if he is "superior" to them- he says that he has endured it with silence. Let us be kind and helpful to this good young man and not view him with the eyes of our own realities. God bless you Adonis, God bless you. Be patient, and endure all of us-for the sake of Christ!

In Christ,

hieromonk Averky

[Fr Averky]

I was not "quick to make judgement," I know exactly what I was saying, and why I said it. The devil can attack anyone, but that does mean that they have become "evil" or "bad." It means that by his evil machinations, the devil can cloud situations in order to keep people from seeing things in their spiritual light. He is the best psychologist in the world, and he has been around longer than mankind.

How many of us have been in an intense aerguement, and all of a sudden, we turrned to the other person and said something so unkind that it cut the other person to the quick. Looking at the strickened face of the one at whom we hurled our invective, we think to ourself "What ever made me say such a terribly cruel thing?" Many times, this actually has defeated the devil because the one who has said the unkidness, feels shame and sorrow, and begs forgiveness.. If there are people that can say that they have never experienced such a thing, then I simply do not know what to say...

When it comes to something as important as what Adonis is considering, I weigh my words most carefully.

[Elizabeth]

Dear Father A. and Adonis:

Yes, the devil is for real.

My teenage son was invited to a birthday party at a neighbor's house on a warm summer day. Suddenly the room in which he was in became icy cold, yet the air conditioning was not on. It felt like a blast of arctic air. My son looked down and noticed that some teenagers were playing with a Ouiji board. He felt the chills as our Priest had informed him to stay away from Ouiji boards, tarot cards and fortune tellers, so he left immediately.

He entered our garage and again felt this bone chilling breeze, so he came into the house and told us about it. My husband immediately picked up a blessed cross and some holy water, then went out and sprinkled the garage.

Our priest prayed a prayer of exorcism and that coldness disappeared from our garage.

Ever since that day, my son has been very careful with whom he keeps company.

Yours truly in Christ,
Elizabeth

[Fr Averky]

Dear in Christ Elizabeth,

While I repeat I was not speaking of the devil in quite that context, but his ability to cause confusion and stir up problems, I certainly agree with you, My sister, who just turned seventy, had a similar experience about ten years ago when a good friend of hers brought one over that she had just bought at a garage sale.

My sister told me that right away she did not feel good even having it in her home, but her friend talked her into "trying" it. within a very short time it pointed to the words "Your husband is bad." Then, "kill him." At this, my sister, stood up, grabbed the ouija board and threw into the fireplace, which had a fire going. She said that she swears that they both heard a low growl, and as the board caught fire, the room was filled with a foul odor.

Fr. A.

[Richard McBride]

monochos: demonizing parents

Blessed of the Lord, Father Averky:

I read a few messages which, to my view, suggested generalizing an attitude to the effect that partents ought not influence their children in any anti-monastic fashion. This I take to have meant monasticism in general -- not your monastery in particular (I don't recall any mention of you or your monastery in those messages).

There were also comments about demonic influences affecting parental decisions. But I don't recall who wrote particular messages. If you want to check up on it, I suppose you could pull down that message page and have a read.

Indeed, I don't have my own message before me any longer (I delete them as soon as I read them), but I do not think I accused you or Adonis of saying anything. And I intended no such thing.

From what you have said on this matter, I should imagine that if your advice to anyone is done through prayer and is thus received on the list through the Holy Spirit, then your conscience should be clear. I don't think you should be disturbed by what I have said, or what you may read into my messages. For my part, I did not have you in mind. What I had in mind was a few messages which seemed to be leaning toward 'parent-bashing'. And I should hate to see that ball get rolling, as though it were OK since it were done in good clean fun -- that is, in the name of monasticism.

Everyone suffers who gets involved in such a judgmental attitude: Those who advance it and those who read it. I pray that you put a stop to my errors when I get off track, as indeed you have. And I thank you for your corrections, Father.

Now, a subject as the parental problem versus the monastic problem may well be indulged on the internet; but only with difficulty. I think that be fine -- as long as it does not also indulge presumptions of demonic influence. We should not go that far. In your business, Father, you may have to deal with other people's demons. But that is not fit fare on the internet.

For most of us our own demons are troublesome enough and we should be concerned with them. We should not go hunting for the demons in the eye of another. Indeed, you might advise us on the sins we are indulging when we slip into such a mode.

Thank you Father, for your concerns.

richard mcb

[Fr Averky]

Dearest in Christ Professor McBride,

I did not think you to be in error at all;as I read our subsequent posts, and those of others, I think that there was just a bit of a misunderstanding, and in the end, we were basically saying the same thing. I just did not want it to appear that I fealt that Adonis' parents had become "demonized," but was pointing out that the Devil can, and does cloud people's minds whenever others are trying to do somehing salvific especially if that person is related to them. We now live in times when even many pious Orthdox people do not understand the monastic life, and think that it is a failure to face the realities of life..

As I mentioned on another thread, St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco suffered such attacks frequently. When he was living in France, the priest with whom he lived turned against him and began to slander him and treated him terribly. I believe that later, he repented, and it seems as if he had "lost his mind," when it came to dealing with the holy bishop. When he first arrived in San Francisco, a new cathedral was being built, and it was found that a large sum was missing from the building fund. Poor Vladika's enemies, even bishops, filed a law suit in which they tried to have him declared mentally incompetent. The saint many times acted like a Holy Fool, but those who loved him clearly saw his saintly existence. On his "day in court," a large number of people came into the court room bearing banners and icons, singing holy hymns. Archbishop John was cleared of any wrong doing and his enemies were shamed. This, Mr. McBride, was the work of the Devil who inspired otherwise well-meaning hierarchs to cause Vladika John to suffer publicly.

I further pointed out that I can also understand what Adonis' parents are going through, but can only pray that if Adonis is firm in his resovle, they will bless him.

As to the "personal demons " of which you speak in the last paragraph of your post, I agree, but again, I was not speaking about such manifestations. Let this entirediscussion be ample proof of the many ways the Evil One can act, in what myriad forms he appears, and how in so many devious ways: he is not just frightening, or dark, but beautiful, appealing pleasant, alluring and charming. He also works on our pride, telling us "go ahead, do it, God can do nothing to you." But when we have fallen, and face God's judgement, he laughs at us and say, "Ah, but, He is just!"

I in no way thought that you has gotten off track, I always read your posts with interest and respect -and I felt in no way that I was or had to correct any of your words.

I did not judge Adonis' parents, I just understood where they are coming from. At the same time I do not flinch in my urging Adonis to go to the monastery which has captured his heart if he is serious about saving his soul in such a manner.

Let us be at peace, dear Professor McBride, for I do not think that either of us were being judgemental, at least of each other. I have made enough mistakes lately and have not shown enough love or patience at times, and I am determined not to do it again. Of course, it is very difficult for anyone to discuss the spiritual future of another, especially within the limits of the internet. Yet, as we have all grown to know one another as we do in this small community, we feel that we do have the freedom to advise, admonish, and love each other as we do. If in any way even one of my words offended you, please know that it was un-intended, but nevertheless, I ask your forgiveness, and that of anyone else I might have offended during this thread.

You know, it is much more difficult to discuss the works of the Devil than it is those of God. The Devil is like a chameleon-he can be the color of the walls, or a bright light, a soothing voice, a handsome youth or a beautiful woman. He can be a subtle thought, or a word said in fury, he can draw us away from God, and he can dash us to the ground. He is so evil, but so intelligent, so easy to detect, yet so wily, so wonderful, and so dark and hideous-he is all of these things, Mr. McBride, and you are right, I have had to deal with him, and it nearly killed me.

Respectfully,

hieromonk Averky

[Owen Jones]

Richard,

As a general rule, I don't think we should identify demons in another, unless it is something that we are intimately familiar with in ourselves, and then, only because we have been asked to help.

Who knows God's will? We cannot attribute a difference in opinion over God's will to demonic influences. Maybe it is so. But maybe it isn't. Again, unless it is a demon we are personally very familiar with in ourselves, we should not identify it in others. Except in a very general sense. For example, I think modern politics is demonic. But when it comes to accusing particular politicians, that's different. The only one I can condemn is myself.

[John Wilson]

Dear friends in Christ.

It has taken some time for me to fully appreciate the consequences of my initial post in response to Andonis. After a brief struggle with pride and indignation, I now fully accept the criticism raised by Owen Jones and Richard McBride and ask all of you for your forgiveness for my selfish and inconsiderate actions.

Though I do not believe the content of my post was incorrect, as it has been the experience of many nuns and monks, I completely agree that it was inappropriate to post such things on a public forum. As I had earlier spoken face to face with Andonis I was privy to a lot of things that had not been made public, and consequently I spoke far more freely than I should have.

Again I ask all of you for your forgiveness and especially for your prayers.
Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.

John.

[Fr Averky]

Dear in Christ John,

I found myself having to defend my own words on this matter. I suppose that it is difficutl to discern the difference between saying that the Devil can cloud a situation, causing people not to look at the spiritual value of the actions of another, and people being "demonized," which is a different, and very serious matter. I could not understand how there were those who felt that you were "demonizing" Adonis' parents. I read and clearly understood otherwise.

The Devil wins a great victory when he is defended, when he has been found out, yet well-meaning, modern people want to make his works a thing of the medieval past. We are modern and educated and enlighted, therefore, we can see as primitive and ill-educated, the notion that the Devil does his best to keep souls from Christ. I find it to be quite odd, when there are those who can tell us how the "Spirit" is working in someone, but God forbid that anyone expresses the fear or points out that the Evil One might , and word here is might -be trying to block their salvation by causing problems with those closest to them. It does not make me angry, it makes me profoundly sad.

How is that we can speak only of the Holy Spirit and His actions in a person's life, as if the Father and the Son have no play in the existence of a Christian. We can be dismissive of the very real danger that the Evil One poses at every moment for every person on the globe: All we have to do is to observe the suffering of the peoples of the continent of Africa in the last ten years, and this very hour, we can see the devil's inspiration of man"s cruelty to his fellow man -or Iraq, or East Timor, or any number of hundreds of nations of the world wherein slavery, sexual assault and torture are at record high levels. Look what is happening to the Episcoplaian Church - is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth moving in that religious body? If we want to involve ourselves in a real and effective "social" issue, if we want to overcome a very real social evil, we might fight together against the Devil and his minions, especially the comforting lie that they do not exist, forgetting that the Creed, we speak of a visible and invisible world. St. Paul tells us who we fight day and night against terrible dark and powerful angels of the highest rank. In Slavonic, there are "Angeli" and ,"ageli" and an "agel" ( hard "g" ) is a fallen and evil angel. Why is it so difficult to believe that the parents of a person wanting to save himself as a monastic might not be tormented by all kinds of doubts and fears, unwarrented concerns, and extreme reactions that are not of God -and if they are not of God, from whence do they come? Why are loving and caring parents and relatives suddenly attacking the monastic or priestly way of life-I find it hard to believe that under normal conditions they would have such extreme thoughts and would behave in such a manner. Several years ago I was present for the baptism of a young Jewish man, who was so fervent in his love for the Church, that he attempted to become a novice right away. It has never been our policy to do so, but he must have mentioned his desire to his mother, who drove from New York and caused a scene that constituted a one person riot. It took a few hours to calm her down. In time, the boy went on to another monastery, and his mother blessed him to become a monk. She contacted Archimandrite Kyprian, who had baptized the young amn, and said "Forgive me, I do not know what came over me." My observation is not theoretical, but from experience.

Perhaps you might have given information to which you are privy, but your concern for Adonis was in no way "demonizing" anyone. Are we now going to become "politically correct" in how we approach the very real and very evil works of the devil? Is it now going to be "nice" to be repectful of the Destroyer of souls, giving him is "due?' I pray not! Owen, I appreciate your concern-for everyone.

Perhaps now those who attack me by saying that I am being "unkind" and "hurtful" have been given new amunition, but I am only expressing extreme consternation with those who seem to think that the Devil is a phantom or an imagined Boogey Man. Well, I have had to deal with him, and as I told the esteemed Professor McBride, I would not wish my experiences on anyojne. Am I frightened by the Devil, you bet I am! I know I souded disrespectful, but this is not a small or unimportant issue to me. I could fill pages with the experiences I and other monks of this monastery have had. Four of us were visited by the same stifling "Black cloud" within ten minutes of each other, and none of us would tell you that it was a fun experience. I still shudder to think of it!

God bless you John. Professor McBride and Owen, pray for me.

Fr. A.

[Andonis]

Hi all,

its been an interesting ride since returning to the world from Mt Athos. i am trying desperately not to demonise people, when they speak negatively about monasticism but sometimes i find it impossible. its amazing , that i would find not even one person here, freinds or relatives whom would be in support of me becoming a monk. is this purely coincidence? when it comes to saying negative things, they all have plenty to say. yet not one has said to me that Andonis i would indeed be proud if you decided to be a monk and would fully support you. to assume the devil has not had his hand in this, would for me be very near sighted.

although i am receiving great challenges both in terms of my own logismoi, and from other people, i find that the provision of hurdles, only makes me more determined to be with God despite the constant confusion and inner turmoil. i pray that God's grace does not depart from me, so that i can continue to discern truth, in amongst all the falsehood that surrounds me. God bless you all for your advice and support...

Andonis

[Fr Averky]

Dear in Christ, Adonis

No matter even what you yourself say, I am still in some hopes that your parents, friends and relatives have not truly become demonized. I have been trying to make the distinction between saying that demons have taken over the soul, heart and mind of people, thus "demonizing" them, or is it perhaps that the Devil has managed to darken their minds agasinst our Lord, for in attacking your desire to become a monk, they are attacking Christ, even though if you pointed that out to them, they would not understand what you would be talking about. However, if you are indeed demonizing them, then you must stop and stop now, for this is not pleasing to God, and perhaps for that alone He will not grant your request. Your parents and relatives love you, and in their own, seemigly misguided manner, they want you to be "safe" and to remain near them. To a mother, her son is always her "baby," no matter how old he is. Also, you should give your parents credit for knowing you in some ways better than you do yourself -they raised you, and they know ... Remember too that Effie once said that in Greece, monks do not always have the best reputation, so that could be part of your relative's concerns.

Dear Professor McBride and Owen, if in fact Adonis has indeed been "demonizing" his relatives, then I admit my wrong doing and proffer my heart-felt apologies to both of.. Somehow I have been in hope that in this case it is has been a problem of semantics, but now, I do not know. At any rate, I still ask your forgiveness for arguing with you-in that I was wrong. I should have been more respectful.

I am in hopes that the other priests who check in from time to time will come to my aid and tell us what they think. Also, perhaps "Monk Ivan" can enlighten us with his knowledge of the monastic life and help Adonis.

Dear Adonis, I would like to share with you and all of our members some beautiful excerpts taken from letters written by St. Anthony, one of the Elders of the Optina hermitage:

Discerning The Call To To The Monastic Life

"By your letter you have revealed to me the desire which which has been born in your heart to dedicate yourself to the service of God in the monastic calling. But your parents trouble themselves to betroth you to marriage, and hence you are perplexed in deciding what to do. To this I will say that marriage is a life blessed by God, and the monastic life is a holy and angelic life Both ways of life are pleasing to God. But in the married life how often does one meet with various concerns and grief? And so the ancient proverb puts it fairly; the farther you are from the sea, the less grief. About the monastic path one can say this: that it is a blessed life; however it is not an easy one, but one full of toil. Therefore if one can say concerning tailoring that one must measure seven times and cut but once, the one must consider the monastic life not seven times, but seventy times, and then, once and for all, resolve to enter the holy monastic life in the monastery. If you are now impatient, drowsy, lazy toward prayer, intemperate, and disiclined to workd, etc., if you are sometimes not without vexations when listening to remarks your parentrs, refusals of your requests and so forth, then in the monastery it it will be even more difficult , for there, until the grave, one's entire life is spent in toil, labors, in submission and setting aside one's will and desires. One must not only obey the Abbot ( in this letter, Abbess), but but also the Elders and Fathers in Christ, and the Gentleman must become a servant, that is, an unquestioning, all submissive servant until his final breath. Therefore, you yourself must deliberate whether or not you will have enough strength and courage to bear such labors."

I want to tell you Adonis, that I mentioned that I had prayed for you late at night. After my prayers, I was extremely tired and sleepy, but I felt that I should spend some time doing spiritual reading. I have been reading all of the the lives of the Optina Elders, and was towards the end of the book about St. Anthony. As I began to read his letter, I came across this wonderful letter, and of course it expresses ever so much better than I can the way one should look at wanting to become a monastic. It served as a good reminder to me, and I hope that you will find it helpful. I glorified God when I came upon this section, for it seemed to me that God had given me something to pass on to you -so I consider it truly to be from God. Print it and read it several times, Adonis.

God bless you, Adonis, say your prayers and be patient, and love your family, no matter what, with all your heart. When I mentioned earlier on this thread that I understood what your parents are going through I do, because, first when I embraced Orthodoxy, and secondly, when I entered the monastery, I too faced opposition from my family especially my mother.

When I became Orthodx my baptismal named was Nichols, in honor of the Tsar Martyr Nicholas II, but since he was not canonized yet, my patron was in honor of St. Nicholas of Myra in Lycea. When I became Rassophore, my name was changed to Averky. My sister said in a lettere to me tzat my mother had said, "My son belongs to the strangest church; every time I talk to him, he seems to have a different name!" Yet, in time, whenever one of family members would refer to me by my secular name, my mother would say, "No, now we must say Father Averky, for that is now his name." May God bless asnd help you Adonis-try not to judge anyone.

Again Professor McBride and Owen, my sincere apologies.

In Christ our Lord,

Fr. A.

[Elizabeth]

Dear Andonis:

You quoted: "I find that the provision of hurdles, only makes me more determined to be with God despite the constant confusion and inner turmoil."

Our God is not a god of confusion. Read again the quotes from St. Anthony which Father Averky sent you.

The devil is the author of lies and confusion. When you want your will over God's will this can only cause confusion in your mind. Empty yourself, let go of your own will and trust in God. In this become as a child.

Lovingly yours in Christ,
Elizabeth



(Message edited by chanterhanson on 14 August, 2003)

[Fr Averky]

Elizabeth,

I must be losing my command of the use of the English language because I understand that Adonis is saying that despite all the confusion going on around him, or perhaps better, because of the confusion around him, he is even more determined to flee the world and enter the monastery.

However, I do feel that there is much to be gained by reading St. Anthony's words, and I hope that Adonis will.

Adonis, I am cheering for you, but as St. Anthony says, you have to measure seven times, then cut, but to be a monastic, you have to measure seventy times. I am fervently praying for you, and so are many others. Use your head, but follow your heart.

Fr. A.

[Matthew Panchisin]

Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory Forever!

During vespers and matins tonight our deacon asked me to help out since no alter boys showed up. The last time I was so near the Holy of Holies was about 14 years ago when my Father who was an Orthodox Priest served his last liturgy. He reposed a few months latter having suffered an agonizing and brutal heart attack. Many within Holy orders have told me they are not immune to the devils asaults. Father Averky, as you know I am not a Monk or a Priest but today I was an older altar server and I'm very grateful for that. I 'm somewhat afraid to write because I don't what to say anything that would be detrimental to the spiritual well being of anyone. So if I write anything wrong please let me know. Many years ago I wanted to be a monk and still more recently I yearn for it. More recently one Greek Orthodox Priest said I am not monk material. A Russian Orthodox Priest Monk told me I can do much good in the world. Another Russian Priest told me that everybody needs to know their place in the church. (He was not happy what I was doing apparently.) Then, the Archbishop told me "should be monk." Pehaps, they are all right. My family is very loving but opposed to it at this time. Thanks be to God for all things, I know that at this time I am doing things in the church that are good. Next year I would like to go to the Holy mountain and visit. Hence I write Adonis. From what you've expressed and the responses you are obviously dearly loved by your parents and those on this forum. Demonized people don't love, they can't. You love your parents and friends and they you. The demons hate and don't like it when men love, especially orthodoxy and the monastic way. As I understand, the demons are cruel, manipulative, filthy, cunning and completely evil although men often don't perceive the absence of good because they don't always let men know they are all those things. Remember what our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ said to his beloved disciple. (But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. "Get behind me, Satan!" he said. "You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.")

So for our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to see Peters words as opposition to what he willed to do he rebuked him.

The same Apostle Peter Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ gave the keys of the kingdom of heaven because of his profession faith at a different time.

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

I think it's important for all to remember that since God created all things visible and invisible that all things are subject to Gods will all the time. The devil is subject to Gods will. So we must trust in Gods will.

In Christ,
Matthew

[Fr Averky]

Beloved of the Lord, Matthew

Allow me to humbly thank you for you for your beautful and most wise words. They touched me deeply, because in a calm and loving manner you pointed out something so very important; that Adonis loves his parents, famly and friends, and they dearly love him. Their concern, while perhaps clouded by the wiles of the Evil one, in the end are those of high regard and true devotion.

Let us pray for Adonis, his dear parents, and his family and friends, that God's will for Adonis will be made clear. Let us pray that Andonis will truly see how much concern his family has for him, and that for the sake of Christ, he will be patient and long suffering with them. God bless you Matthew for your blessed words!

With love in Christ,

Fr. A.

[Andonis]

hello all,

once again you all speak with an incredible amount of spiritual wisdom. i have tried to hold my breath when i get attacked about my love of monasticism but i am afraid i have failed to do so on occasions. this has brought disrepute between myself and many other people. i know that i have tried to defend this sacred way of life in vain, as they beleive i am manipulated and disillusioned. i got especially upset when they tried to exalt themselves as being more worthy of God's kingdom as they remain in the world therefore have to deal with more temptation. they seem certain to know more about God than any monastic will ever know. anyway, soon enough i steered the conversation in another direction as i realised this was wasted breath on all behalfs.

on a more positive note, i have begun Byzantine music lessons with an excellent chanter here in the south of Greece. it is helping me clear my mind and keep it away from unwholesome logismoi. i am loving the experience and the challenge. something i probably should have started a long time ago. of course i am keeping this a secret from family and freinds too. lest they recommend i stop and take up playing heavy rock on an electric guitar. one must think of the commercial opportunities involved in taking up a hobby these days....what on earth will i hear next?...

Christs unworthy servant

Andonis

[Richard McBride]

monochos: Adonis

Blessed of the Lord, Adonis:

The monastic life is so far from my earthly struggle, that I ought not comment on it. Still, from this distance, it seems to me that the struggles you describe are precisely the first stage in testing your strength -- whether your strenght is sufficient to maintain your love of the idea.

I should expect that when you master these trials, then you will receive a new set of tests, and new level of attainment. If along the way these minor trials prove too exasperating, then you will know it was not for you.

All of these little troubles (now with your loving parents and friends; later with another) part of the process upon which you are embarking. Therefore, I should think it is essential that you learn to deal the problems and still retain the pure heart -- that is, not get drawn INTO the problems themselves.

And I think I read this understanding in your messages.

A small point: You mentioned keeping quiet about your chanting, toward the end of your last message; and this reminds me of a bit of secular wisdom I once heard:

When you are giving birth to a new idea, never speak of it to colleagues. They will surely do their best to stamp it out. Wait until the new idea has legs, so to speak, and can defend itself against the stampers (actually, we call them 'stompers').

(Now that I write this, I seem to recall that it came from Cyril Connelly (sp?). I'm not sure that one should trust it, for he was an awful disbeliever. Still, I have often used it to advantage -- I think.)

God bless you in your search, Adonis, and I will pray to the Mother of God to provide you with Her Love and Protection -- both of which are most precious.

richard mcb

[Effie Ganatsios]

Hi Antoni. I’d like to say something if I may. First of all, I wouldn’t pay too much attention to comments from people other than your immediate family – you can’t know what people’s motives are when they comment on something that is so personal. I tend to be wary of revealing my feelings concerning subjects that I feel strongly about – I wait until I know what kind of people I’m dealing with. I can talk about religion to certain people but I can’t to others. I don’t have the same hesitancy about politics although perhaps I should……….

Only God knows a person’s heart and only he knows when that person is ready to accept him… don’t expect people in general to understand your feelings and don’t reveal yourself to those who might not understand you. A wonderful path might be opening up to you but take it slowly and gently. Don’t be influenced by negative comments – when you feel the need to empty your heart select someone who will listen with empathy and who is in a position to understand your desires. Enjoy your Byzantine music lessons and your stay in Greece.

I can understand parents who react against the decision of a son or daughter to become a monk or a nun. We parents tend to regard our children as babies even when they are adults and it’s hard to accept them as independent human beings in their own right. We also want our line to continue – that sounds egotistic but it’s true. As you know I have one son and I sometimes nag him about it being time that he was married and had children.. imagine doing that to another adult - a colleague at work for example!!!! I have dreams of having a granddaughter that will bear my name and even look like me…..you know that we Greeks are given our grandparent’s names and in this way we have family baptismal names that go back for centuries…. see how easy it is for parents to live in their own fantasy worlds and you can just imagine the shock when a child who is expected to have children announces that he wants to become a monk or a nun. The good thing about people, especially parents, is that they eventually get used to something that they objected to initially. And that’s because they love their children and their children’s needs come first. Give your parents time and yourself as well. If this is to be your path in life you will know soon enough and your parents will not only accept it but they will also be very proud of you.

Effie

[Fr Averky]

Beloved in the Lord, Effie!

Today for those of us in the Russian Church and all those on the Julian calendar, it is the Bright Feast of the Transfiguration, and I am filled with joy to see your name and the Light you bring to this forum! As with your new post to Adonis, you bring maternal understanding and Orthodox spiritual wisdom with your helpful comments to him.

As a mother, an Orthodox Christian and a Greek, you are able to look at Adonis' situation in a way which none of the rest of us can. Professor McBride also gave Adonis superb advice in his most recent post #243.

Dear Adonis, you can see how much the members of this community love you and are concerned for you. Try to be patient and loving to your parents, be willing to wait on the will of God, and live a life of prayer, fasting, and spiuritual diligence. Your whole life has to begin to change, and even if you do not end up being a monk, if you can begin to live a pure, chaste, spiritual and sober Christian life, that in itself will certainly be very pleasing to God. Professor McBride and Effie can be examples to you of laypeople who in their daily lives understand that Orthodoxy is not only a Truth to be known, but a Life to be lived. Glorify God that he has given you such people who show you such concern. I am but a poor and struggling monk, but ever since your return from Greece, I have been praying for you that you will in the end reach salvation, for that is the best that anyone can wish anybody. Again, dearest Effie, welcome back!

Much love in Christ,

Unworthy
hieromonk Averky

[Effie Ganatsios]

Hello Father Averky. Thank you for your welcome back. I have thought of you often and have missed you and this forum.

Father, I need some help. This thread is probably not the proper place for this but I can't start another thread for just one message.

A very, very dear childhood friend has cancer. She had a colon operation and has been having chemotherapy for the last couple of months. Her name is Maria and when I telephoned her on the 15th of August to wish her well on her nameday I was told that the chemotherapy is not doing much good. Another tumour in her liver has stayed the same size and the one in her lungs has increased..they have increased the chemotherapy dose and are now waiting to see the results.

Friends will be going to the island of Tinos next week and will light a candle for her asking the Theotokos to help her. I have been praying for her but, in spite of your kind words, I am not the Christian I should be and I feel unworthy when I pray because of my many lapses. I'd like you to pray for her, Father, if you will.

She is such a terrific person and I've been having great difficulty accepting the fact of her illness.


Effie

[Fr Averky]

Dear in Christ Effie,

Of course, I will pray for your friend Maria, and I will ask others to pray as well.

I will serve a moleiben, which is like a Parastis to St. John of Shanghai and San Francisco. He died only in 1966 and was canonized in 1995. He worked many miracles during his lifetime, and after his death, people would write requests to him and put them under his miter set on top of his tomb, and he heard and answered them. After more than twenty five years in a crypt, his metal coffin had totally disintegrated, yet his body was totally incorrupt. His holy and incorrupt relics lie in the cathedral in San Francisco.

Effie, he truly is a great saint, and he has worked several miracles for me, and I have witnessed his holy works. Pray, and ask others you know to pray to him, and let us hope that if it is God's holy will, your friend will be healed. If not, let us ask the holy Saint of God to ask our Saviour to grant Maria salvation.

With much love in Christ,
Fr. A.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Thank you, Father.

I've heard of this saint but I haven't read anything about his life. I'll try and find something today to download and study.

Thank you again.

Effie

[Fr Averky]

Dear Effie,

If you have access to "Google," you should be able to find quite a lot of information on "Vladika John," as he is lovingly known. You might also find information under "St. John Maximovitch," a misnomer, because saints are not called by their last names, with the exception of a few, like St. Gregory Palamas.

Just a few years ago, I blessed a woman dying of cancer by touching an icon of the saint to her head and told her to ask God to forgive her her sins. A year later I saw her again, and she told me that by "the prayers of your saint, I am well!"

In Christ,

Fr. A.

[Fr Averky]

Dear Effie,

I checked myself on Google, and found several references. One, which is perhaps third in the list directs you using both titles, and the life which can be found on the website of the diocese of Australia and New Zealand is from our monastery, and is very good. Anything coming from the St. Herman Brotherhood has a tendency to be colored, so I would not recommend it so highly.

I hope that any members of the forum who do not know about this "Man of God," will take the time to read about him, get to know him, and pray to him.

In Christ,

Fr. A.

[Priest David Moser]

Effie and others interested in St John (Maximovitch) of Shanghai and San Francisco,

St John's relics rest in the Holy Virgin Cathedral in San Francisco and if you contact the bookstore there I am certain that they will have plenty of information resources on him. I know that they will often send out oil from his shrine for those who request it as a blessing. Contact information for the cathedral is:

Holy Virgin Cathedral
6210 GEARY BLVD
SAN FRANCISCO, CA 94121-1822
Telephone: 415/221-3255

Fr David

[Fr Averky]

Effie,

go to:

www.rocor.org.au/lives/stjohnsanfranciscoshanghai (http://www.rocor.org.au/lives/stjohnsanfranciscoshanghai)

This is the life I was mentioning to you. "Man of God" is a book about him, and is interesting in that one can see how he effected the lives of others. Another book by the St. Herman Brotherhood is not recommended.

Fr. A.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Thank you Father Averky and Father David for the references. As soon as I posted my message in answer to Father Averky's, I searched for information about this saint and found the following :

Life Of St. John (Maximovitch)
The Wonderworker,
Of Shanghai
and San Francisco
Compiled by Father Demetrios Serfes

I shall visit the recommended sites, especially the one in Australia.

Father David, the oil would have to be sent to Australia. I'll telephone the number you listed tomorrow and ask whether they send this oil overseas. Both my friend and her mother who is with her are very religious and would be pleased I think.

Thank you both so much.

Effie

[Priest David Moser]

Effie,

You might try contacting one of the Russian Churches near you in Australia. There is an online directory at: http://directory.sjkp.org/ Once there, set the search function for Australia and it will give you a list of the all the Russian Parishes in Australia.

It would not surprise me if one of the Churches in country would be able to provide you with some of the oil as well as the information you desire. St John shepherded his flock out of China to a temporary haven in the Phillippines - from them some went to the US, some to Australia, some to South America, wherever he could find them a place. So there are likely people in Australia who may have actually known St John - or at least whose parents knew him.

Fr David

[Fr Averky]

Fr. David,

Forgive me, but Effie lives in Greece, but used to live in Australia.

Fr Averky

[Effie Ganatsios]

Yes, sorry Father David for not making that clear. My friend lives in Australia but I live in Greece.

One thing I'm curious about. Doesn't it take a long time for a person to be canonized by the Orthodox Church. I'm sure I'm showing my ignorance here but I've read that in the Catholic church it sometimes takes a couple of centuries before this can happen. Especially now when everything has to be documented. Apparently, in the past the rules concerning the canonization of a saint were not as strict as they are today.

St. John of Shanghai and St. Francisco was considered to be a saint even before he died. His biography certainly makes interesting reading.

This is a excerpt from the information I downloaded :

"The relics (the body) of Archbishop John, however, were found to be totally incorrupt. His skin was white and soft, and upon lifting out his body it was found to be very light due to dehydration but was totally intact. Those who came forward to venerate the relic discovered that they exuded a sweet fragrance.

Exposure of a body to amount of moisture that deteriorated metal and other objects would surely caused rapid decomposition. There is thus no basis to argue that Archbishop John;s body had undergone some sort of mummification.

The incorruptibility of a saint's relics is a sign of God's special favor and grace. It is also a testimony of the eternal blessedness that awaits the elect of God. It is clear from Holy Scipture (read in the Old Testament the 2nd book of Kings chapter 2 verse 14., and chapter 13 verse 21, and in the New Testament read Acts chapter 19 verse 12) that God has manifested miracles through His saints, from ancient times even to our own age. "

I don't know if you are aware but here in Greece bodies are exhumed after 3-5 years and close relatives gather at the gravesite the next day (after the bones have been washed with wine and placed in a basket that is covered with a cloth and with an icon on top of it) for a short memorial service.

When I first came here I thought that this custom was barbaric and macabre but I have now seen that death is regarded as totally normal here and even children are a part of all the ceremonies attendant to a person's demise. I can't help comparing this attitude with that in Australia and similar countries where people seem to want to ignore the fact that death is a natural part of life. Here we stay up with the dead person's body all night before it is buried. I have come to realize that this wake is essential for the people left behind. It gives them a chance to say goodbye and to accept the fact of death itself.

I frequently remember my husband's auntie who knew she was going to die and planned everything in advance. She told us she didn't want crying and nonsense at her wake. She wanted her friends and loved ones to talk about her and her life and to laugh and be happy. She had selected some bible verses that she loved and I was priviliged to be asked to read a couple. She even provided black stockings for the women members of the family. I loved her when she was alive and her courage when she was dying is something that serves as an example to me.

Effie

[Fr Averky]

Dear Effie,

I just sent of an e-mail to Archbishop Hilarion, our Church's bishop of Sydney and New Zealand. I asked him to let me know who your friends in Australia could contact for some oil and an icon of Vladika John.

Go to our Church's website at:

w.w.w.rocor.org

When you log on, you will see nothing but lines of ???????, for it is in Russian, but if you scroll up and look at the right top, you will see the words "English Version." Click on that, and you will then see everything in English. Look at the central section under the heading "Rejoice San Francisco, and there is a story, whith photos, of this year's celebration fo St. John's Feast Day at the cathedral.

There is also an interesting article, with photos of the celebration of the 100th anniversary of the canonization of St. Seraphim of Sarov. You will other interesting items and sermons on our modest site, and get an idea about our Chuirch.

If you look at the section entitled "Bishops and Dioceses," you will find Archbishop Hilarion's telephone and fax numbers if your friends want to call him themselves. He is very kind and easily approached.

I am praying very hard for Maria, that she might be comforted in her suffering, that she will be filled with hope, and that she stay strong in her faith and will not falter. I am praying for her family that they too will be comforted and that all will be prepared to accept God's will for Maria. Pray also to the icons of the Mother of God "Joy of All Who Sorrow," and "Surety of Sinners," both responsible for many miracles. "Surety of Sinners" is the name of the cathedral that Vladika John built in Shanghai. The original is in Moscow, and in the 1830's, over a four year period there were 340 recorded miracles and many since. The icon "Joy of All Who Sorrow" shows the Mother of God standing and she is surrounded by several people who are suffering from various afflictions. The cathedral in San Francisco is named after this wonder-working icon.

At our Church headquarters in NYC, there is a copy of this icon which came from a shop in either Shanghai or Harbin, China and was first seen by a Russian looking in the window of a shop selling antique items. At first, the icon was almost completely black, but each time the Russian person would walk by the shop, they would notice that it was slowly renewing itself. Hastening to gather money from other pious Russians, the icon was purchased at a good price because it was thought tro be "black and dirty" by the shop owner. When it was put in one of the Russian churches, it renewed itself completely!

Another powerful intercessor, and closer to you Effie, is St. Nektarios on Pentapolis, whose holy relics are at the convent founded by him on the island of Aegina. He is especially known to heal people with cancer. By a real miracle, I came to be given a piece of his bone, which is very, very hard to come by. One of the converts who comews to the monastery got a very seripous form of cancer on the main artery on the left side of his neck, and then another was discovered on the other side. I lent him the beautiful icon I have of the saint, painted by one of the nuns at our convent, and he is sure that by the prayers of the holy bishop-saint that he is now on the road to recovery.

How fortunate we Orthodox Christians are to have the most pure Mother of God and the holy saints as our friends and intercessors!

Most Holy Mother of God, Save Us! Holy Saints of God, pray for us!

In Christ,

Fr. Averky

[Fr Averky]

Dear Effie,

The Orthodox church generally does not follow the norms of the Catholic Church to determine a person'sssanciticty. In the Roman Chuirch, a person's name is put forth in a petition to the Holy See for canonization. This is called the person's "Cause." A person who is the holy person's advocate, usually a bishop, collects materials like witnhesses, character references, and there has to be the record of att least one miracle. It used to bew that a person was charged to debunk the story of the person's holiness and he came to be known as "The Devil's Advocate," which has now entered rather common usage in the English language. After a period of time, the person is then "Beatified," and given the title "Blessed." When all information has been gathered, and the necessary miracle or miracles have been attested to, then the person is added to the "Canon of the saints in heaven," not by the Church, but by the Pope, who can change his mind even at the last moment.

When I was in Rome in November of 1999, I met a sweet but perfectly mad woman who gave me tickets to a canonization of eight Spanish Martyrs who had been shot by the Communists during the terrors of the Spanish Civil War. Also were two monastic saints, one the foundeer of a religious congregation, the other, a hermit. After the Pope had entered the Basical of St. Peter to the anthem sung in Latin "Thou art the Ruler of the universe, and all the Princes of the world bow down before you," people came near his throine and brought relics of the new saint. A cardinal stood and said something like
"Holy Father, we humbly petition you to add the following to the list of the Church's holy saints..." then he names them Then the Pope said something like, "By the authority invested in me By Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and the Holy Apostles Peter and Paul, I add to the canon of the sants in heaven...." the Cardinal then asked the Pope, do you confirm your decision, O Holy Father?" and the Pope said the Latin word, "Confirmo!" "I confirm!" A trumpet fanfare was played, the litany of the Saints was chanted, adding the names of the new saints, and the Catholic Church had ten new saints!

Quite a fuss was raised when the Pope beatifed Mother Theresa of IndIA, who died only a few years ago, because doctors in India claimed that the person she "healed" had gotten better because of their medical attention. The Pope wanted to beatify Pope Pius XII, but many bitterly complained, because he was accused by many of not doing or saying enough to point out the plight of the Jews during the Holocaust, and of being instrumental in disbanding the Catholic party which opposed the rise of Hitler in Germany.

Most recently, there was talk of possibly cononizing Isabella the Catholic, of Ferdinad and Isabella fame, but the Jews were not too happy about the idea, since she killed and drove out most of the Jewish population of Spain once it had been wrested from the Moorish kings. This was an unfortunate act , for the Sephardic Jews were the cultural elite of the Jews in the diaspora, and many of them ended up in Turkey.

Medieval Spanish music has the most wonderful marriage of Spanish, Muslim and Jewish influences, and the city of Seville enjoyed being a true cultural capitol when other European cities where filthy little villages. The court of Seville had its own elegant dialect and learned cleric, while the Muslims produced scientists and mathameticians and the Jews produced excellent physicians and scholars.

Sadly, the blindness of the triumph of the "True Faith" inspired Their Most Catholic Majesties, the title granted to the kings and queens of Spain by the Pope, to turn out some of their nation's most valuable citizens setting the stage for the terrible " Auto de Fe," which would come later bringing suffering and dearh to thousands Sorry Effie, I have gone on.

Tomorrow:
Canonization in the Orthodox Church, unless someothe else would like to answer.

Fr. A.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Adonis,

I was away for some time during the heart of the dialogue in this thread, which centred upon your difficulties and challenges in discerning the manner in which God is calling you forward, especially as regards the monastic life and way.

At the time that I first read the messages, a story came to mind, but I did not have the occasion to write and post it. I've a bit more time at hand now, and so am writing it out, even though the thread has died down somewhat.

* * *

The following is the story of a certain man called Gregory, who reflected to me, not terribly long ago, upon the circumstances of his life. I will not be able to recount it properly here, but as much as I am able to re-tell it, his story was as follows:

This Gregory, when only a small child, slipped from boyhood into all the wrong manner of life. God had given him some small amount of intelligence (nothing exceptional, perhaps, but it was there); yet Gregory soon learned that his amusement and satisfaction were better fostered by turning this towards deception and connivance than truth and growth. He took great delight in telling lies, deceiving his loved ones, even stirring disputes among those around him, which he could then observe as some first-hand theatrical production.

As he grew into an older boy, he discovered the passions that come with the first stages of maturity, and soon turned to embracing these with great enthusiasm. Craftiness that he could not have imagined in his youngest days, presented themselves as new opportunities for self-gratification. Relationships with loved ones could be taken advantage of, twisted, abused. Arrogance could be fostered in new ways and reach new heights. Even lusts and all manner of inappropriate desires could find a home in his mind and heart. All these he embraced as friends and took as his companions, neither noticing nor caring that in so doing he caused great harm and sorrow to his family and to those who loved and cared for him.

But through all this, Gregory was somehow aware of two truths: first, that God exists. And second, that God would make Himself known. Even in his most selfish, most conceited and passion-driven moments he knew, somewhere in the dark depths of his mind, that God was a real presence, and would not always be silent.

This knowledge, however, did not alter his behaviour. As the child grew older, his depravity only grew worse. God existed, yet Gregory acted and continued to act in defiance of that being of whom he was somehow, secretly aware.

Then one day, he paused for a moment to reflect on the current state of his wrong and degenerate behaviour. This was not uncommon for him: quite often, in fact, he was aware of his depravity, and would even make vocal admission and apology of it—though these pretend confessions never inspired an alteration of his attitudes. But this time, for whatever reason (surely the compassion of God), he determined that he would briefly say a word to God for help. Thus he took himself to his room, locked the door, and in the centre of the floor knelt down upon his knees and, with his arms stretched out and his eyes wide open but looking at nothing, he began to pray.

At that moment, the second truth that Gregory had always subconsciously known—that God would someday make Himself known—became his reality. For there, as never before in the entirety of his life, the young man was overcome by the immediate presence of God. In a way that was almost tangible, he experienced in his heart all the magnitude of the divine being of God: wrath, mercy, judgement, compassion, and absolute, unspeakable love. All these combined in his being to such a degree that, for however long a time, he had no conception of the world around him. The walls of his room, the bed, the carpeting on the floor, all these were absent from his mind and he felt only something like a fire well up from deep within, burning away so much of his own heart, and replacing it with a light that could be compared to no other.

Gregory could not know how long this prayer lasted. But when it was over, he was there, still in the same spot on the floor of his room, though with tears streaming down his face. In that moment, all the world had changed and he suddenly felt, in the most blessed way, as a stranger in it. He was conscious only of one thing: that God had forgiven him all his sins out of a love that he could not understand, but which he had experienced and knew; and that his whole life, from that moment onward, must be a response to that love.

In a notable way, every day to follow that brief prayer was, for Gregory, a day devoted to responding to the love he had experienced from God through a direction of his own love back towards Him. He still succumbed to his passions, still fell into old habits; but from that day such activities began to torment him—not with a fear of divine wrath or hellish tortures, but by the renewed experience of that same love. Nothing, Gregory said to me, was more torturous to him than to experience that love of God in the presence of his own passions. Yet nothing more absolutely peaceful and radiant than the experience of that love when he made even the slightest of efforts to respond in kind.

As Gregory grew, he began to focus his mind and energies positively on increasing in right living and advance. He studied, loved, and had his ambitions. Yet as the decisions of his future sat before him, he came to realise that only when he followed the path of response to this love, did he experience any depth of true fulfilment. Many things he enjoyed, at some he excelled; but only when struggling actively to respond to the experience of God was his heart satisfied. Thus he shunned advance towards several esteemed careers, finding himself drawn to give his life back to God in the only way he knew how: through sacrifice and devotion to the Church.

And thus did he lead his life. The only door available, he gradually discerned, was the door of full service to God. Yet the practical elements of life prevented this in many ways: work, education, occupation. But through it all—and these were many, many years, some with great frustration that the desire, the longing to serve the Church wholly was not given opportunity to become reality—through it all, that deep longing and absolute conviction to respond to love with love never faded. It was in this that he rested each day.

* * *

The inward illumination given by God cannot ever be quenched, no matter what the challenges, what the ‘obstacles’ or long periods of ‘waiting’ that may come during the course of its realisation. Only never lose faith in the love of God which is the source of that light and call.

INXC, Matthew

[Charalambos Andrew Geo]

How are you andonis at the moment? i am also learning or did learn a bit of Chanting how to read, want tp carry on one day when my studies are less strenuous if you understand what i mean not that they're not enjoyable but the studies are at the same period, i.e the same days so i would have much work and commitment to make, i go church and chant, i realise after reading the info on this forum about byzantine and russian chant that this is no ordinary thing and maybe i am too casual about it, not that you are, does anyone know what the book of psalter is in Greek and English and where i might find it in England London if possible, the monks use it throughout the week and it i felt would be nice to start singing and learning the weekly routine when i can with the help of God to please him, what is the best way to increase love? Andonis i hope all is ok for you if not then remember we are all thinking of you, also I remember on our way during the orthodox youth Christian camp we made a pilgramidge to saint Melagell in wales, she lived an ascetic life when England was orthodox and there was no split, we passed along saint gwynvarch shrine, Saint Melagell's relicsand her prayers have been known to help cancer sufferers the priest on our camp said that one lady on contact with them wished to be called by that name, I suppose baptised and there is cancer support for those in England or something like that, if any of you can pray for Gods creation
in Christ
Harry