Wikipedia notice to everyone

[Kosmas Damianides]

Hey guys and gals!!!

Christ is Risen!!!

I was reading this encyclopedia dictionary site on the internet and I felt quite upset by some entries accusing us Orthodox of Iconoltry, Paganism, Idolatry, etc etc.

The good thing is that we can freely edit this site...so if you have spare time and would rather have people reading an un-biased opinion of Christian Orthodoxy, If you have the knowledge and time or know somone who has researched a particular topic, please help fix the problem. I tried to fix some entries already.

A good idea is to save the previous entry in case you delete it by accident.

They even said that the term Idol comes from Latin instead of Greek, unbelievable!!!

Please go here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idolatry

in Christ

Kosma

[Trudy]

Kosma,

I assume you made the changes on the Idolatry page as that says nothing negative about the Orthodox Church in my quick read.

Keep in mind Wikipedia is not written by "scholars" that I can tell.

Athanasia

[Vasilis Kirikos]

> One should take into consideration that 40+% of Latin is taken from Greek. > Vasilis

[Kosmas Damianides]

I know it's not written by scholars but some entries are biased, so at least we could help change that by editing these pages which are available for all people to see.

Most children researching topics for school think that anything on the internet is true and un-biased. I feel it's vital/impertative to be unbiased when dealing with religion.

[Vasilis Kirikos]

> Re: "I feel it's vital/impertative to be unbiased when dealing with religion" That has got to be next to impossible. Anyway, when one is dealing with a philosophy that is evil there can be no "fairness doctrine". The Nazis philosophy is evil. Most German people are NOT evil. But during a point in their history the German people, their society adopted the evil philosophy of Nazism. They were duped into doing this because it provided some answers to pressing problems that had been dealing with for years; poverty. Poverty caused by the greed of the powers who won WW I. Their greed and desire for vengeance against the German people drove them to strip that nation of everything they could take and destroy what they could not. The English and French did this despite the pleas and forebodings of then President Woodrow Wilson. All people are quite similar as far as having equal percentages of very good and very evil people. There are always those who need little or no persuasion to do evil. Likewise there are always good people. Good people who would never harm anyone no matter the amount of persuasion they are tempted. Both kinds can be found in any society; any major group of people. When any society adopts a philosophy that permits one ounce of evil you can be certain that there will be that element present who are quite willing to carry out the permitted evil to the last degree. And there too is always the opposite. No amount of permission can persuade them to do an evil act. Good people can be found even among a nation that has turned Nazi. But does that make the Nazi philosophy any better? Any less evil? So too their are wonderful people who count themselves as Muslims, and who would never harm anyone. But that doesn't make the philosophy of Islam any less evil. Merely because particular members of such a group are so to speak "hard-wired" to be gentle folk and have a myopic view of the teachings of the philosophy they consider themselves a member, does not make the actual teachings of that philosophy any less evil. It is, therefore imperative that each society be viglante as to what it is their leaders are about to press upon them as a "new way of thinking" ..or "new order" or "new world order" as both president Bush and his father so fondly loves to tout. No matter how good their intent. Just remember the old saying has much truth, "...the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Ask any German of post Nazi Germany! Ask the Byzantines who were kind to the Muslims and allowed them to build their mosques in their city of Constantinople. Ask any Egyptian/Coptic who has found his race to be reduced by slaughter to 10% of the population and their entire nation over-run with Arab/Turks who now call themselves "Egyptian" but speak Arabic and not the true ancient language of Egypt, Coptic. The Egyptian people were and still are 100% Christian and NOT MUSLIM. What lives in Egypt now, the Muslim who rule and predominate in Egypt today are not Egyptians; they are Arab/Turks invaders who murdered all but 10% of the true Egyptian people who spoke Coptic for thousands of years and still speak it.

>

[Kosmas Damianides]

Dear Vasili,

This is an interesting quote.


Just remember the old saying has much truth, "...the road to hell is paved with good intentions".

I've never heard of that saying before, but it does to some extent make sense. Compromising for the sake of being "nice" can even mean that we would be asked to compromise our own faith.

Being un-biased however does not mean that we have to compromise our faith. it means that we are understanding and open to other people's opinions. However different situations call for different attitudes. For instance ... at a Bible lesson I can say to my listeners that it is better to go to church on Sunday than to go to football or soccer or baseball. I can't however go to a soccer match with my megaphone and start preaching how bad they all are and how they should repent. Firstly I would probably be dead in a few minutes, secondly the guys with the white truck and the suit with the long sleeves would take me away, and thirdly I am not representing Christ at all.

Isaiah says "He will not shout or cry out, or raise his voice in the streets." (Isaiah 42:2)If we also wish to be followers of Christ we should mimic Him and not improvise as some have done in the past. The Word of God is sacred and does not belong in the streets. It belongs in our homes. People who take the streets and spread the Word of God by door knocking are dishonouring God and the Word.

This might seem off the topic but what I am saying is that the Encyclopaedia is an object where one learns of many things and is offered an un-biased view of the world. Orthodox Books however can be biased and one sided since they are not teacing about all things but about the Truth, about God and the right way of worshipping Him of living a true Christian life etc...

We however should understand that by our silence and our living our faith in humility we are being more effective than confronting people all the time and degrading them because of their beliefs. This in most cases actualy could do more harm than good.

IN
ICXC

Kosmas

[Kosmas Damianides]

"Tread wisely towards outsiders making the most of every opportunity. May your word always be filled with grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to respond to everyone." (Colossians 4:5-6)

[Vasilis Kirikos]

> I think that we agree. However, when you say that being un-biased does not mean we have to comprise our faith; and that we can listen to others. I think your choice of words is a mixing of terms here. First you say we should be uncompromising regarding our faith, then you say we should be unbiased. I cannot see how one can be uncompromising and not biased. I think that what you are indicating is that we can listen others points of view without a confrontation or challenging them. I agree; just so long as their point of view is not dangerous. So there are exceptions as to how tolerant one should be; and evils such as Nazism, the KKK and Islam are not areas where I am willing to just sit back and listen. Islam, like Nazism is a philosophy of hate and intolerance. AND I AM NOT SAYING THAT ALL MUSLIMS ARE INTOLERANT AND FULL OF HATE. Look, statistically one can find about the same percentages of very, very good people and very, very evil people in any major group of people world wide be they Jews, Christians or Muslims or whatever. Therefore, one can find truly wonderful people who say they are Muslims. But that does not make the evil nature of the philosophy called Islam any less evil. Despite the fact that many, if not most Muslims would never overtly practice what Islam truly teaches, none-the-less Islam teaches to be intolerant and kill non-Muslims, and gives specific directions how to accomplish there murders! And in my book that makes Islam t an evil philosophy. Tolerance can go just so far. Having respect for wild poisonous snakes is one thing. Bringing them into one's home is quite another. And that is exactly what this nation is doing by inviting the practice of Islam in our nation. I would sooner have a regiment of Nazis live next door..and I hate Nazis. Vasilis

[Andrew Williams]

First you say we should be uncompromising regarding our faith, then you say we should be unbiased. I cannot see how one can be uncompromising and not biased.

I think that if you are uncompromising about the faith you will be unbiased too. Unbiased must mean uncompromising in presenting truth. The only way you would feel that to present the faith without compromise would be 'biased' would be if you considered it no more true than alternative worldviews.
(By the way, Vasilis, while you can find in Islam such things as you mention, you can also find instruction to be peace-loving and caring for neighbour. Such is not so easily found in Hitler's writing: for this and many other reasons I think one should be very careful about seeing any equivalence between National Socialism and Islam.)

[Kosmas Damianides]

I agree that we should strive to please God first and foremost.

Pleasing God means that we have to displease others. This I guess is the hard part of being Christian.

On the one hand we should "tread wisely" yet on the other we should not fear to say the Truth.

Thank God we live in countries where we are granted freedom of speach.

http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/smile.gif

[leandros]

Dear kosmas,

I think it is the other way around,

Pleasing God means that we have to please others. This is the hard part of being Christian.

And I mean exactly the same meaning you implied. I do not play with words.

Just think of the millions of Christian martyrs that "pleased" their executioners. If we only made ourselves holocausts in order to accept the will of others against our will, we would have found the true meaning of personal relationship and Christian brotherhood.

[Ken McRae]

Vasilis originally posted:-

>> Just remember the old saying has much truth, "...the road to hell is paved with good intentions". <<

If I might interject, I must respectly disagree with this. Personally, I can see no truth in this at all. Intentions are aspirations, and good aspirations purify the heart. This is the essence of the Jesus Prayer. There is more truth in the saying that "the road to hell is paved with *evil* intentions," in my humble opinion:-

1 - "Charity ... hopeth all things." - 1 Corinthians 13:4,7

2 - "And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure." - 1 John 3:3

3 - "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" - Romans 8:24

Godly hope gives rise to that "single-minded" intention (aspiration) that lifts the mind continually to God in unceasing prayer.

(Message edited by theophilus on 25 May, 2005)

[Kosmas Damianides]

I hope you visited the wikipedia pages and read what they say about Orthodoxy. I changed some things aboyut "idolatry" and "idols". I also changed some parts in "Icons". I may have to read the Church History to see if there is any bias there.

I guess we would have to rewrite whole pages about our Orthodox History which is usualy taking a western perspective.

[Alexis Flavian Bugnolo]

>If I might interject, I must respectly disagree with this. Personally, I can see no truth in this at all. Intentions are aspirations, and good aspirations purify the heart. This is the essence of the Jesus Prayer. There is more truth in the saying that "the road to hell is paved with *evil* intentions," in my humble opinion:-

True, but the purpose that I have seen this old saying used for in the West is this: to remind the listener that for a virtuous act one must consider not only having a good intention, but also that the act is good and the circumstances are appropriate.

Take the common case of meeting a begger on a city street. Christian compassion moves us to help him, and he asks us for money, and money we may have and it would be very easy to give him some.

But will he use the money for what he says, or will he buy liquor and get drunk or drugs for himself? We should not judge, but we should not allow ourselves to be satisfied in thinking that we do something virtuous for him just by giving him money.

Often, if a poor man asks for money, you do a more virtuous thing by taking him to a restaurant or supermarket and buying him a meal or some nutrious food.

And this is the meaning of the phrase: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Hell... good intentions...
I just heard a story about one of my favourite non-Orthodox (although now hopefully he is) characters- Winston Churchill.
Apparently once while he was campaigning for office and addressing a crowd, someone from the crowd shouted out to him, "I'd rather vote for the devil."
Without skipping a beat and with a twinkle in his eye Churchill replied, "Well just in case your candidate decides not to run would you consider voting for me?"
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Vasilis Kirikos]

> I agree. This is the true meaning. > > I like Emanuel Kant's "Categorical Imperative", that one should > measure all of their actions by examining what would happen if thus > and so action became universal law. Would the result be for the good > or for the evil? > Vasilis

[Alexis Flavian Bugnolo]

Can anyone give me the greek and a good English translation of it, for this quote from the 7th ecumenical council (Nicea II): "if anyone rejects any tradition of the church, written or unwritten, anathema sit."

Thanks.

[Kosmas Damianides]

Hi,
Now if having "good intentions" are that good then why do people with "good intentions" often hurt others?

I think that everyone on earth has good intentions.

In fact even criminals might, in their own twisted minds, have good intentions.

* For instance, Hitler wanted to improve the conditions of his own country by wiping out the rest of the world. Look at how succesful Germany is today.
* Bin Laden wanted a better world... a world without Americans.
* The Western Christian Crusades wanted to see a successful spread of good Christian values by slaughtering the opposition.
* The North Korean government wants to be a stronger nation by making and possessing nuclear weapons.

So what is the definition of "a good intention"?

Obviuosly as Christians we have to have live a Christocentric life in order to approach the goodness of Christ.

Our Prototype is Christ. Our intentions to be like Him are the only "good intentions" that God would accept as being good. Every other intentions which are secular, worldly and selfish are bad.

So fooling ourselves into thinking that some people have good intentions where in reality they are bad can actually be harmful for us. Our paradigm, our model, our prototype is lost by the example of these "good intenders" who are in fact "bad intenders".

May God's will be done.

Peace in Christ,

Kosmas}

[Kosmas Damianides]

<font color="ff0000">&#34;The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.&#34;</font> &#40;Galatians 6:8-10&#41;

[Andrew Williams]

I hope this is not too simplistic, but as I understand the saying


the road to hell is paved with good intentions

it is simply saying: having the intention to start praying regularly and being happy with that intention alone is not going to take you off the road to hell. Actually doing the praying might help, though...

[Anthony]

Another possibility is to start our own &#34;wiki&#34;. In fact somebody has already had this idea (http://www.orthodoxwiki.org).

[Kosmas Damianides]

Good on you Anthony

Your a legend, how did you do that?

[Kosmas Damianides]

However, I would also like to see other people except Orthodox Christians reading un-biased entries in a Wikipedia. If we don&#39;t mix with the non-Orthodox then there is less of a chance of them being able to understand our Point of View.

Nevertheless,making our own Wiki is a great idea.

[Anthony]

Whoops, perhaps I should explain that it is nothing to do with me. I have forgotten the name of the main editor, though it probably appears somewhere on the site.http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/wink.gif

I agree with you that challenging incorrect information in non-Orthodox sites is just as important.

&#40;Message edited by anthony on 25 May, 2005&#41;

[Vasilis Kirikos]

&#62; This brings us full swing to the argument presented by Socrates in &#62; &#34;The Republic of Plato&#34; . The actions of all men are thought by them &#62; to be for the good. No one does anything that they deem not to their &#62; benefit. The argument then becomes &#39;what is the good&#34; and what is &#62; beneficial ? &#62; Vasilis

[Vasilis Kirikos]

&#62; WOW! I like what you said! It is very profound! &#62; Thank you, Vasilis

[Ana Maria]

Christ is Risen!
I read all the posts about the quote &#34; the road to hell is paved with good intensions&#34; and what can I say? In my humble opinion,cause I am just an ignorant youth,it might be right and in the same time it might be wrong.Why?On one hand,and here I am talking from my own experince,sometimes I have the intension to do good to someone dear to my soul,and on the contrary to my good intensoin ,it proves to be wrong.Then ,seeing that I hurt that persone, I ask in my heart God why did it happend like that, since my intensions were good?And the answer comes....Maybe because sometimes I like to play the part of God in other people life,but I can&#39;t be God ,cause I don&#39;t know what is the best thing to do for that person....And so,my good intensions lead me to my own inner hell,but as Christ once said to Saint Siluan :&#34;Keep your mind in hell,but don&#39;t be in despair&#34; I put all my trust in God and pray that He will give me the wisdom,so that whenever I want to do good ,I do it with His blessing,as He please.So, about this qoute,I don&#39;t think that it matters where our intension lead us,all that matter is not to make harm to any of our brothers....and if our intensions proved not to achive their good goal,to admit that we are wrong and ask for forforgiveness.It is important if,when we do something good, we do it with God or without Him&#40;and I don&#39;t think Hitler did all the good he wanted to do for Germany by consulting God first&#41; Sorry,my message might not have a sense,maybe I was just trying to answer to myself at this question...Once again I ask you to forgive me,cause I really don&#39;t know much about the world and I am for sure not in the position to judge other people&#39;s intensions as I did with Hitler....
Maybe we should just pray God to be in our hearts each time we want to do god,and whenever we have a question let&#39;s ask Him first...and I am sure that He will give us the proper understanding.....
Once again ,forgive me for my post,that it might have no sense,and please pray for me that God puts in my heart what He please.
Love you in Christ,Ana Maria

[Ken McRae]

There seems to be some confusion with regard to the true value of pure intentions in the spiritual life, so I thought to post the following chapters from the greatest Catholic spiritual classic of all time, which have some bearing on the subject. Though not all of them deal directly with the subject of intention&#40;s&#41;, the extra chapters provide some context and a feel for Catholicism&#39;s greatest spiritual and devotional classic ever written. Thomas a&#39; Kempis, incidentally, is linked to Meister Eckhart through Gerard Groote and Blessed John of Ruysbroeck.

Twelve Chapters from Thomas a&#39; Kempis

01 - On the Love of Solitude and Silence (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp3.htm#T41)

In silence and quiet the devout soul advances in virtue and learns the hidden truths of Scripture. There she finds a flood of tears with which to bathe and cleanse herself nightly, that she may become the more intimate with her Creator the farther she withdraws from all the tumult of the world. For God and His holy angels will draw near to him who withdraws from friends and acquaintances.

Very many great saints avoided the company of men wherever possible and chose to serve God in retirement. &#34;As often as I have been among men,&#34; said one writer, &#34;I have returned less a man.&#34; We often find this to be true when we take part in long conversations. It is easier to be silent altogether than not to speak too much. To stay at home is easier than to be sufficiently on guard while away. Anyone, then, who aims to live the inner and spiritual life must go apart, with Jesus, from the crowd.

No man appears in safety before the public eye unless he first relishes obscurity. No man is safe in speaking unless he loves to be silent. No man rules safely unless he is willing to be ruled. No man commands safely unless he has learned well how to obey. No man rejoices safely unless he has within him the testimony of a good conscience.

More than this, the security of the saints was always enveloped in the fear of God, nor were they less cautious and humble because they were conspicuous for great virtues and graces. The security of the wicked, on the contrary, springs from pride and presumption, and will end in their own deception.

Never promise yourself security in this life, even though you seem to be a good religious, or a devout hermit. It happens very often that those whom men esteem highly are more seriously endangered by their own excessive confidence. Hence, for many it is better not to be too free from temptations, but often to be tried lest they become too secure, too filled with pride, or even too eager to fall back upon external comforts.

If only a man would never seek passing joys or entangle himself with worldly affairs, what a good conscience he would have. What great peace and tranquillity would be his, if he cut himself off from all empty care and thought only of things divine, things helpful to his soul, and put all his trust in God.

No man deserves the consolation of heaven unless he persistently arouses himself to holy contrition. If you desire true sorrow of heart, seek the privacy of your cell and shut out the uproar of the world, as it is written: &#34;In your chamber bewail your sins.&#34; There you will find what too often you lose abroad.

Your cell will become dear to you if you remain in it, but if you do not, it will become wearisome. If in the beginning of your religious life, you live within your cell and keep to it, it will soon become a special friend and a very great comfort.

It is better for a man to be obscure and to attend to his salvation than to neglect it and work miracles. It is praiseworthy for a religious seldom to go abroad, to flee the sight of men and have no wish to see them.

Why wish to see what you are not permitted to have? &#34;The world passes away and the concupiscence thereof.&#34; Sensual craving sometimes entices you to wander around, but when the moment is past, what do you bring back with you save a disturbed conscience and heavy heart? A happy going often leads to a sad return, a merry evening to a mournful dawn. Thus, all carnal joy begins sweetly but in the end brings remorse and death.

What can you find elsewhere that you cannot find here in your cell? Behold heaven and earth and all the elements, for of these all things are made. What can you see anywhere under the sun that will remain long? Perhaps you think you will completely satisfy yourself, but you cannot do so, for if you should see all existing things, what would they be but an empty vision?

Raise your eyes to God in heaven and pray because of your sins and shortcomings. Leave vanity to the vain. Set yourself to the things which God has commanded you to do. Close the door upon yourself and call to you Jesus, your Beloved. Remain with Him in your cell, for nowhere else will you find such peace. If you had not left it, and had not listened to idle gossip, you would have remained in greater peace. But since you love, sometimes, to hear news, it is only right that you should suffer sorrow of heart from it.

02 - On Acquiring Peace and Zeal for Perfection (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp3.htm#T23)

WE SHOULD enjoy much peace if we did not concern ourselves with what others say and do, for these are no concern of ours. How can a man who meddles in affairs not his own, who seeks strange distractions, and who is little or seldom inwardly recollected, live long in peace?

Blessed are the simple of heart for they shall enjoy peace in abundance.

Why were some of the saints so perfect and so given to contemplation? Because they tried to mortify entirely in themselves all earthly desires, and thus they were able to attach themselves to God with all their heart and freely to concentrate their innermost thoughts.

We are too occupied with our own whims and fancies, too taken up with passing things. Rarely do we completely conquer even one vice, and we are not inflamed with the desire to improve ourselves day by day; hence, we remain cold and indifferent. If we mortified our bodies perfectly and allowed no distractions to enter our minds, we could appreciate divine things and experience something of heavenly contemplation.

The greatest obstacle, indeed, the only obstacle, is that we are not free from passions and lusts, that we do not try to follow the perfect way of the saints. Thus when we encounter some slight difficulty, we are too easily dejected and turn to human consolations. If we tried, however, to stand as brave men in battle, the help of the Lord from heaven would surely sustain us. For He Who gives us the opportunity of fighting for victory, is ready to help those who carry on and trust in His grace.

If we let our progress in religious life depend on the observance of its externals alone, our devotion will quickly come to an end. Let us, then, lay the ax to the root that we may be freed from our passions and thus have peace of mind.

If we were to uproot only one vice each year, we should soon become perfect. The contrary, however, is often the case -- we feel that we were better and purer in the first fervor of our conversion than we are after many years in the practice of our faith. Our fervor and progress ought to increase day by day; yet it is now considered noteworthy if a man can retain even a part of his first fervor.

If we did a little violence to ourselves at the start, we should afterwards be able to do all things with ease and joy. It is hard to break old habits, but harder still to go against our will.

If you do not overcome small, trifling things, how will you overcome the more difficult? Resist temptations in the beginning, and unlearn the evil habit lest perhaps, little by little, it lead to a more evil one.

If you but consider what peace a good life will bring to yourself and what joy it will give to others, I think you will be more concerned about your spiritual progress.

03 - On Unbridled Affections (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp3.htm#T13)

WHEN a man desires a thing too much, he at once becomes ill at ease. A proud and avaricious man never rests, whereas he who is poor and humble of heart lives in a world of peace. An unmortified man is quickly tempted and overcome in small, trifling evils; his spirit is weak, in a measure carnal and inclined to sensual things; he can hardly abstain from earthly desires. Hence it makes him sad to forego them; he is quick to anger if reproved. Yet if he satisfies his desires, remorse of conscience overwhelms him because he followed his passions and they did not lead to the peace he sought.

True peace of heart, then, is found in resisting passions, not in satisfying them. There is no peace in the carnal man, in the man given to vain attractions, but there is peace in the fervent and spiritual man.

04 - On Resisting Temptation (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp3.htm#T27)

SO LONG as we live in this world we cannot escape suffering and temptation. Whence it is written in Job: &#34;The life of man upon earth is a warfare.&#34;[3] Everyone, therefore, must guard against temptation and must watch in prayer lest the devil, who never sleeps but goes about seeking whom he may devour, find occasion to deceive him. No one is so perfect or so holy but he is sometimes tempted; man cannot be altogether free from temptation.

Yet temptations, though troublesome and severe, are often useful to a man, for in them he is humbled, purified, and instructed. The saints all passed through many temptations and trials to profit by them, while those who could not resist became reprobate and fell away. There is no state so holy, no place so secret that temptations and trials will not come. Man is never safe from them as long as he lives, for they come from within us -- in sin we were born. When one temptation or trial passes, another comes; we shall always have something to suffer because we have lost the state of original blessedness.

Many people try to escape temptations, only to fall more deeply. We cannot conquer simply by fleeing, but by patience and true humility we become stronger than all our enemies. The man who only shuns temptations outwardly and does not uproot them will make little progress; indeed they will quickly return, more violent than before.

Little by little, in patience and long-suffering you will overcome them, by the help of God rather than by severity and your own rash ways. Often take counsel when tempted; and do not be harsh with others who are tempted, but console them as you yourself would wish to be consoled.

The beginning of all temptation lies in a wavering mind and little trust in God, for as a rudderless ship is driven hither and yon by waves, so a careless and irresolute man is tempted in many ways. Fire tempers iron and temptation steels the just. Often we do not know what we can stand, but temptation shows us what we are.

Above all, we must be especially alert against the beginnings of temptation, for the enemy is more easily conquered if he is refused admittance to the mind and is met beyond the threshold when he knocks.

Someone has said very aptly: &#34;Resist the beginnings; remedies come too late, when by long delay the evil has gained strength.&#34; First, a mere thought comes to mind, then strong imagination, followed by pleasure, evil delight, and consent. Thus, because he is not resisted in the beginning, Satan gains full entry. And the longer a man delays in resisting, so much the weaker does he become each day, while the strength of the enemy grows against him.

Some suffer great temptations in the beginning of their conversion, others toward the end, while some are troubled almost constantly throughout their life. Others, again, are tempted but lightly according to the wisdom and justice of Divine Providence Who weighs the status and merit of each and prepares all for the salvation of His elect.

We should not despair, therefore, when we are tempted, but pray to God the more fervently that He may see fit to help us, for according to the word of Paul, He will make issue with temptation that we may be able to bear it. Let us humble our souls under the hand of God in every trial and temptation for He will save and exalt the humble in spirit.

In temptations and trials the progress of a man is measured; in them opportunity for merit and virtue is made more manifest.

When a man is not troubled it is not hard for him to be fervent and devout, but if he bears up patiently in time of adversity, there is hope for great progress.

Some, guarded against great temptations, are frequently overcome by small ones in order that, humbled by their weakness in small trials, they may not presume on their own strength in great ones. ----- [3] Job 7:1.

05 - Acquiring Patience in the Fight Against Concupiscence (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp5.htm#T25)

The Disciple

PATIENCE, O Lord God, is very necessary for me, I see, because there are many adversities in this life. No matter what plans I make for my own peace, my life cannot be free from struggle and sorrow.

The Voice of Christ

My child, you are right, yet My wish is not that you seek that peace which is free from temptations or meets with no opposition, but rather that you consider yourself as having found peace when you have been tormented with many tribulations and tried with many adversities.

If you say that you cannot suffer much, how will you endure the fire of purgatory? Of two evils, the lesser is always to be chosen. Therefore, in order that you may escape the everlasting punishments to come, try to bear present evils patiently for the sake of God.

Do you think that men of the world have no suffering, or perhaps but little? Ask even those who enjoy the most delights and you will learn otherwise. &#34;But,&#34; you will say, &#34;they enjoy many pleasures and follow their own wishes; therefore they do not feel their troubles very much.&#34; Granted that they do have whatever they wish, how long do you think it will last? Behold, they who prosper in the world shall perish as smoke, and there shall be no memory of their past joys. Even in this life they do not find rest in these pleasures without bitterness, weariness, and fear. For they often receive the penalty of sorrow from the very thing whence they believe their happiness comes. And it is just. Since they seek and follow after pleasures without reason, they should not enjoy them without shame and bitterness.

How brief, how false, how unreasonable and shameful all these pleasures are! Yet in their drunken blindness men do not understand this, but like brute beasts incur death of soul for the miserly enjoyment of a corruptible life.

Therefore, My child, do not pursue your lusts, but turn away from your own will. &#34;Seek thy pleasure in the Lord and He will give thee thy heart&#39;s desires.&#34;[33] If you wish to be truly delighted and more abundantly comforted by Me, behold, in contempt of all worldly things and in the cutting off of all base pleasures shall your blessing be, and great consolation shall be given you. Further, the more you withdraw yourself from any solace of creatures, the sweeter and stronger comfort will you find in Me.

At first you will not gain these blessings without sadness and toil and conflict. Habit already formed will resist you, but it shall be overcome by a better habit. The flesh will murmur against you, but it will be bridled by fervor of spirit. The old serpent will sting and trouble you, but prayer will put him to flight and by steadfast, useful toil the way will be closed to him. ----- [33] Ps. 36:4.

06 - On Purity of Mind and Unity of Purpose (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp4.htm#T9)

A MAN is raised up from the earth by two wings -- simplicity and purity. There must be simplicity in his intention and purity in his desires. Simplicity leads to God, purity embraces and enjoys Him.

If your heart is free from ill-ordered affection, no good deed will be difficult for you. If you aim at and seek after nothing but the pleasure of God and the welfare of your neighbor, you will enjoy freedom within.

If your heart were right, then every created thing would be a mirror of life for you and a book of holy teaching, for there is no creature so small and worthless that it does not show forth the goodness of God. If inwardly you were good and pure, you would see all things clearly and understand them rightly, for a pure heart penetrates to heaven and hell, and as a man is within, so he judges what is without. If there be joy in the world, the pure of heart certainly possess it; and if there be anguish and affliction anywhere, an evil conscience knows it too well.

As iron cast into fire loses its rust and becomes glowing white, so he who turns completely to God is stripped of his sluggishness and changed into a new man. When a man begins to grow lax, he fears a little toil and welcomes external comfort, but when he begins perfectly to conquer himself and to walk bravely in the ways of God, then he thinks those things less difficult which he thought so hard before.

07 - On Restlessness of Soul -- Directing Our Final Intention Toward God (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp5.htm#T67)

The Voice of Christ

MY CHILD, do not trust in your present feeling, for it will soon give way to another. As long as you live you will be subject to changeableness in spite of yourself. You will become merry at one time and sad at another, now peaceful but again disturbed, at one moment devout and the next indevout, sometimes diligent while at other times lazy, now grave and again flippant.

But the man who is wise and whose spirit is well instructed stands superior to these changes. He pays no attention to what he feels in himself or from what quarter the wind of fickleness blows, so long as the whole intention of his mind is conducive to his proper and desired end. For thus he can stand undivided, unchanged, and unshaken, with the singleness of his intention directed unwaveringly toward Me, even in the midst of so many changing events. And the purer this singleness of intention is, with so much the more constancy does he pass through many storms.

But in many ways the eye of pure intention grows dim, because it is attracted to any delightful thing that it meets. Indeed, it is rare to find one who is entirely free from all taint of self- seeking. The Jews of old, for example, came to Bethany to Martha and Mary, not for Jesus&#39; sake alone, but in order to see Lazarus.

The eye of your intention, therefore, must be cleansed so that it is single and right. It must be directed toward Me, despite all the objects which may interfere.

08 - The Desire of Eternal Life; the Great Rewards Promised to Those Who Struggle (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp5.htm#T99)

The Voice of Christ

MY CHILD, when you feel the desire for everlasting happiness poured out upon you from above, and when you long to depart out of the tabernacle of the body that you may contemplate My glory without threat of change, open wide your heart and receive this holy inspiration with all eagerness. Give deepest thanks to the heavenly Goodness which deals with you so understandingly, visits you so mercifully, stirs you so fervently, and sustains you so powerfully lest under your own weight you sink down to earthly things. For you obtain this not by your own thought or effort, but simply by the condescension of heavenly grace and divine regard. And the purpose of it is that you may advance in virtue and in greater humility, that you may prepare yourself for future trials, that you may strive to cling to Me with all the affection of your heart, and may serve Me with a fervent will.

My child, often, when the fire is burning the flame does not ascend without smoke. Likewise, the desires of some burn toward heavenly things, and yet they are not free from temptations of carnal affection. Therefore, it is not altogether for the pure honor of God that they act when they petition Him so earnestly. Such, too, is often your desire which you profess to be so strong. For that which is alloyed with self-interest is not pure and perfect.

Ask, therefore, not for what is pleasing and convenient to yourself, but for what is acceptable to Me and is for My honor, because if you judge rightly, you ought to prefer and follow My will, not your own desire or whatever things you wish.

I know your longings and I have heard your frequent sighs. Already you wish to be in the liberty of the glory of the sons of God. Already you desire the delights of the eternal home, the heavenly land that is full of joy. But that hour is not yet come. There remains yet another hour, a time of war, of labor, and of trial. You long to be filled with the highest good, but you cannot attain it now. I am that sovereign Good. Await Me, until the kingdom of God shall come.

You must still be tried on earth, and exercised in many things. Consolation will sometimes be given you, but the complete fullness of it is not granted. Take courage, therefore, and be strong both to do and to suffer what is contrary to nature.

You must put on the new man. You must be changed into another man. You must often do the things you do not wish to do and forego those you do wish. What pleases others will succeed; what pleases you will not. The words of others will be heard; what you say will be accounted as nothing. Others will ask and receive; you will ask and not receive. Others will gain great fame among men; about you nothing will be said. To others the doing of this or that will be entrusted; you will be judged useless. At all this nature will sometimes be sad, and it will be a great thing if you bear this sadness in silence. For in these and many similar ways the faithful servant of the Lord is wont to be tried, to see how far he can deny himself and break himself in all things.

There is scarcely anything in which you so need to die to self as in seeing and suffering things that are against your will, especially when things that are commanded seem inconvenient or useless. Then, because you are under authority, and dare not resist the higher power, it seems hard to submit to the will of another and give up your own opinion entirely.

But consider, my child, the fruit of these labors, how soon they will end and how greatly they will be rewarded, and you will not be saddened by them, but your patience will receive the strongest consolation. For instead of the little will that you now readily give up, you shall always have your will in heaven. There, indeed, you shall find all that you could desire. There you shall have possession of every good without fear of losing it. There shall your will be forever one with Mine. It shall desire nothing outside of Me and nothing for itself. There no one shall oppose you, no one shall complain of you, no one hinder you, and nothing stand in your way. All that you desire will be present there, replenishing your affection and satisfying it to the full. There I shall render you glory for the reproach you have suffered here; for your sorrow I shall give you a garment of praise, and for the lowest place a seat of power forever. There the fruit of glory will appear, the labor of penance rejoice, and humble subjection be gloriously crowned.

Bow humbly, therefore, under the will of all, and do not heed who said this or commanded that. But let it be your special care when something is commanded, or even hinted at, whether by a superior or an inferior or an equal, that you take it in good part and try honestly to perform it. Let one person seek one thing and another something else. Let one glory in this, another in that, and both be praised a thousand times over. But as for you, rejoice neither in one or the other, but only in contempt of yourself and in My pleasure and honor. Let this be your wish: That whether in life or in death God may be glorified in you.

09 - Self-Love is the Greatest Hindrance to the Highest Good (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp5.htm#T55)

The Voice of Christ

MY CHILD, you should give all for all, and in no way belong to yourself. You must know that self-love is more harmful to you than anything else in the world. In proportion to the love and affection you have for a thing, it will cling to you more or less. If your love is pure, simple, and well ordered, you will not be a slave to anything. Do not covet what you may not have. Do not possess anything that can hinder you or rob you of freedom.

It is strange that you do not commit yourself to Me with your whole heart, together with all that you can desire or possess. Why are you consumed with foolish sorrow? Why are you wearied with unnecessary care? Be resigned to My will and you will suffer no loss.

If you seek this or that, if you wish to be in this place or that place, to have more ease and pleasure, you will never rest or be free from care, for some defect is found in everything and everywhere someone will vex you. To obtain and multiply earthly goods, then, will not help you, but to despise them and root them out of your heart will aid. This, understand, is true not only of money and wealth, but also of ambition for honor and desire for empty praise, all of which will pass away with this world.

The place matters little if the spirit of fervor is not there; nor will peace be lasting if it is sought from the outside; if your heart has no true foundation, that is, if you are not founded in Me, you may change, but you will not better yourself. For when occasion arises and is accepted, you will find that from which you fled and worse.

A Prayer for Cleansing the Heart and Obtaining Heavenly Wisdom

Strengthen me by the grace of Your holy spirit, O God. Give me the power to be strengthened inwardly and to empty my heart of all vain care and anxiety, so that I may not be drawn away by many desires, whether for precious things or mean ones. Let me look upon everything as passing, and upon myself as soon to pass away with them, because there is nothing lasting under the sun, where all is vanity and affliction of spirit. How wise is he who thinks thus!

Give me, Lord, heavenly wisdom to learn above all else to seek and find You, to enjoy and love You more than anything, and to consider other things as they are, as Your wisdom has ordered them. Grant me prudence to avoid the flatterer and to bear patiently with him who disagrees with me. For it is great wisdom not to be moved by the sound of words, nor to give ear to the wicked, flattering siren. Then, I shall walk safely in the way I have begun.

10 - Self-Denial and the Renunciation of Evil Appetites (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp5.htm#T65)

The Voice of Christ

MY CHILD, you can never be perfectly free unless you completely renounce self, for all who seek their own interest and who love themselves are bound in fetters. They are unsettled by covetousness and curiosity, always searching for ease and not for the things of Christ, often devising and framing that which will not last, for anything that is not of God will fail completely.

Hold to this short and perfect advice, therefore: give up your desires and you will find rest. Think upon it in your heart, and when you have put it into practice you will understand all things.

The Disciple

But this, Lord, is not the work of one day, nor is it mere child&#39;s play; indeed, in this brief sentence is included all the perfection of holy persons.

The Voice of Christ

My child, you should not turn away or be downcast when you hear the way of the perfect. Rather you ought to be spurred on the more toward their sublime heights, or at least be moved to seek perfection.

I would this were the case with you -- that you had progressed to the point where you no longer loved self but simply awaited My bidding and his whom I have placed as father over you. Then you would please Me very much, and your whole life would pass in peace and joy. But you have yet many things which you must give up, and unless you resign them entirely to Me you will not obtain that which you ask.

&#34;I counsel thee to buy of me gold, fire-tried, that thou mayest be made rich&#34;[36] -- rich in heavenly wisdom which treads underfoot all that is low. Put aside earthly wisdom, all human self-complacency.

I have said: exchange what is precious and valued among men for that which is considered contemptible. For true heavenly wisdom -- not to think highly of self and not to seek glory on earth -- does indeed seem mean and small and is well-nigh forgotten, as many men praise it with their mouths but shy far away from it in their lives. Yet this heavenly wisdom is a pearl of great price, which is hidden from many. ----- [36] Apoc. 3:18.

11 - The Longings of our Hearts Must Be Examined And Moderated (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp5.htm#T23)

The Voice of Christ

MY CHILD, it is necessary for you to learn many things which you have not yet learned well.

The Disciple

What are they, Lord?

The Voice of Christ

That you conform your desires entirely according to My good pleasure, and be not a lover of self but an earnest doer of My will. Desires very often inflame you and drive you madly on, but consider whether you act for My honor, or for your own advantage. If I am the cause, you will be well content with whatever I ordain. If, on the other hand, any self-seeking lurk in you, it troubles you and weighs you down. Take care, then, that you do not rely too much on preconceived desire that has no reference to Me, lest you repent later on and be displeased with what at first pleased you and which you desired as being for the best. Not every desire which seems good should be followed immediately, nor, on the other hand, should every contrary affection be at once rejected.

It is sometimes well to use a little restraint even in good desires and inclinations, lest through too much eagerness you bring upon yourself distraction of mind; lest through your lack of discipline you create scandal for others; or lest you be suddenly upset and fall because of resistance from others. Sometimes, however, you must use violence and resist your sensual appetite bravely. You must pay no attention to what the flesh does or does not desire, taking pains that it be subjected, even by force, to the spirit. And it should be chastised and forced to remain in subjection until it is prepared for anything and is taught to be satisfied with little, to take pleasure in simple things, and not to murmur against inconveniences.

12 - How One Should Feel and Speak on Every Desirable Thing (http://www.cfpeople.org/Books/Imitate/THE_IMITATION_OF_CHRISTp5.htm#T31)

The Voice of Christ

MY CHILD, this is the way you must speak on every occasion: &#34;Lord, if it be pleasing to You, so be it. If it be to Your honor, Lord, be it done in Your name. Lord, if You see that it is expedient and profitable for me, then grant that I may use it to Your honor. But if You know that it will be harmful to me, and of no good benefit to the welfare of my soul, then take this desire away from me.&#34;

Not every desire is from the Holy Spirit, even though it may seem right and good. It is difficult to be certain whether it is a good spirit or a bad one that prompts one to this or that, and even to know whether you are being moved by your own spirit. Many who seemed at first to be led by a good spirit have been deceived in the end.

Whatever the mind sees as good, ask and desire in fear of God and humility of heart. Above all, commit the whole matter to Me with true resignation, and say: &#34;Lord, You know what is better for me; let this be done or that be done as You please. Grant what You will, as much as You will, when You will. Do with me as You know best, as will most please You, and will be for Your greater honor. Place me where You will and deal with me freely in all things. I am in Your hand; turn me about whichever way You will.

Behold, I am Your servant, ready to obey in all things. Not for myself do I desire to live, but for You -- would that I could do this worthily and perfectly!&#34;

A Prayer that the Will of God Be Done

Grant me Your grace, O most merciful Jesus, that it may be with me, and work with me, and remain with me to the very end. Grant that I may always desire and will that which is most acceptable and pleasing to You. Let Your will be mine. Let my will always follow Yours and agree perfectly with it. Let my will be one with Yours in willing and in not willing, and let me be unable to will or not will anything but what You will or do not will. Grant that I may die to all things in this world, and for Your sake love to be despised and unknown in this life. Give me above all desires the desire to rest in You, and in You let my heart have peace. You are true peace of heart. You alone are its rest. Without You all things are difficult and troubled. In this peace, the selfsame that is in You, the Most High, the everlasting Good, I will sleep and take my rest. Amen.




&#40;Message edited by theophilus on 27 May, 2005&#41;

[Ken McRae]

Fr Raphael originally posted:-

&#62;&#62; &#34; I just heard a story about one of my favourite non-Orthodox &#40;although now hopefully he is&#41;... etc.&#34; &#60;&#60;

Dear Father,

Forgive me, but I must confess that the meaning of your post has somewhat puzzled me, especially the above remark, concerning Churchill&#39;s hopeful conversion to Orthodoxy in the &#34;afterlife&#34;.

Perhaps I should qualify my original post by saying something about its underlying presupposition&#40;s&#41;. According to the Scriptures, the thoughts and intents of the &#34;natural&#34; man &#40;as distinct from the &#34;spiritual&#34; man in Christ&#41; are only evil. Thus, according to this wisdom, Churchill was incapable of &#34;good&#34; intentions.

I once owned a couple of huge biographies on him, and the thing that struck me the most about him, at that time, was his intense desire to see America use the A-Bomb on Japan.

humbly,
Theophilus

&#40;Message edited by theophilus on 28 May, 2005&#41;

[Ken McRae]

Kosmas originally posted:-

&#62;&#62; &#34;I guess we would have to rewrite whole pages about our Orthodox History which is usually taking a western perspective.&#34; &#60;&#60;

Hi Kosmas,

I&#39;m not sure I understand this comment. Please clarify your meaning of &#34;the Western perspective&#34; of Orthodoxy. Thanks.

humbly,
Theophilus

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Theophilus wrote:


Forgive me, but I must confess that the meaning of your post has somewhat puzzled me, especially the above remark, concerning Churchill's hopeful conversion to Orthodoxy in the "afterlife".
Perhaps I should qualify my original post by saying something about its underlying presupposition(s). According to the Scriptures, the thoughts and intents of the "natural" man (as distinct from the "spiritual" man in Christ) are only evil. Thus, according to this wisdom, Churchill was incapable of "good" intentions.

Don't you know- sooner or later everyone is Orthodox- or else...
About Churchill I am hoping that it's the former.http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif
Yes I'm being a bit silly here. But there is a point about good intentions outside of the Church & salvation.
Another Churchill story. He was once at a banquet. An Anglican clergyman got up & in his speech he praised Churchill for being "a pillar of the church." To which Churchill replied that he did not really know if he was a pillar "I consider myself more a flying buttress."
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Ken McRae]

Fr. Raphael originally posted:-

&#62;&#62; &#34; ... sooner or later everyone is Orthodox - or else ... About Churchill I am hoping that it&#39;s the former. Yes I&#39;m being a bit silly here. But there is a point about good intentions outside of the Church & salvation.&#34; &#60;&#60;

There&#39;s no reason to hope Churchill repented before dying, least of all converted to Orthodoxy. Or is there? Concerning good intentions &#34;outside&#34; the Church, I admit my original post was not as clear as it could&#39;ve been on that point; though I did explicitly distinguish between &#34;godly&#34; and &#34;ungodly&#34; intentions, which presupposes being &#34;in Christ&#34;.

Incidentally, I don&#39;t recall at present, but was the Centurion of great faith &#40;of whom it is said in the Gospel, that no greater faith in all of Israel could be found &#41;, was he a member of the &#40;Jewish&#41; Church?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

About Cornelius the centurion the Acts of the Apostles says that he was, &#34;an upright & God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by the whole Jewish nation.&#34; &#40;Acts 10:22&#41;. It does not appear he was a Jew. This is especially so as this account is immediately preceded by Peter&#39;s vision of the sheet with unclean animals which symbolises God&#39;s command for Peter to minister to the gentiles.
In any case I think this is a very special example of how God&#39;s providence may work in relation to those who are not exactly members of the Church.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Ken McRae]

&#62;&#62; &#34; ... this is a very special example of how God&#39;s providence may work in relation to those who are not exactly members of the Church.&#34; &#60;&#60; - Fr. Raphael

Thank you! So, then, a man &#34;outside&#34; the Church was gifted a faith greater than any &#34;inside&#34; the Church. Glory be to Christ the Almighty!

[Ken McRae]

Alexis originally posted:-

&#62;&#62; &#34; ... this is the meaning of the phrase: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.&#34; &#60;&#60;

Hi there Alexis,

First, as stated in my reply to Fr. Raphael, the intentions of the &#34;natural&#34; man are never good, according to Scripture. Secondly, intentions which are pure and born of the spirit of Christ are never duplicitous in nature, but simple or single-minded in their termination upon Christ&#39;s glory, and the soul&#39;s perfect union with Him. Third, the famous Scripture text for &#34;good intentions&#34; is, of course, Romans 7:14-23, wherein we are taught of the interior conflict that we experience, between the spirit and the flesh. That the flesh lusts against the spirit does not negate the fact that the spirit, or inward man of the heart, delights in the law of God, according to Rom. 7:22. Fourth, the most important aspect of any act is its &#34;intention&#34;. The true nature of outwardly &#34;virtuous&#34; acts, even those performed under &#34;right&#34; circumstances, is determined by a man&#39;s true &#34;intention&#40;s&#41;&#34;. That is to say, if a man&#39;s intention is duplicitous, after the manner of the Pharisees, then his action is evil, despite all &#34;virtuous&#34; appearances. Such was the public prayer of the Pharisees, which appeared &#34;virtuous&#34; in the eyes of men, but &#34;vicious&#34; in the eyes of God. Fifth, and last, &#34;Give to him that asketh thee,&#34; &#40; Matt 5:42 &#41; and place the beggar in the hand of God.

humbly,
Theophilus

[Vasilis Kirikos]

&#62; On 29 May,1453 Constantinople fell to the Ottoman Turks. The horrors of that day have continued to the present. The Genocide of the Asia Minor Greeks and the pogroms of 1955 have destroyed Hellenism in the lands of Asia Minor and Constantinople. Today, Cyprus suffers under Turkish occupation, and the Hellenism of Macedonia is challenged by Skopje.

The Grey Wolves continue to attack the Ecumenical Patriarchate. The encroachments upon Greek sovereignty by NATO and the European Union are increasing. Hellenism must survive, and history must not be forgotten. Enclosed below are

1&#41; A tribute to the martyrdom of Emperor Constantinos Palaiologos who fell bravely in battle against the Ottomans.

2&#41; Historical recollections of the horrors that ensued when the City fell.

3&#41; An essay recalling the Fall of Constantinople.

1&#41; Tribute to Constantinos XI Palaiologos

&#34;There is one more warrior prince whose official status as an Orthodox saint may be somewhat in dispute, but whose examplary piety and courage in a hopeless battle against Muslim adversaries has special resonance in the post &#34;nine-eleven&#34; world. Blessed Constantine XI Palaiologos, last Emperor of Byzantium, perished in defense of Constantinople on May 29, 1453.

The Virtue of War

by

Alexander F.C. Webster and Darrell Cole

&#34;They remembered that dreadful Tuesday, a day that all true Greeks still know to be of ill omen; but their spirits tingled and their courage rose as they told of the last Christian Emperor standing in the breach, abandoned by his western allies, holding the infidel at bay till their numbers overpowered him and he died, with the Empire as his winding sheet.&#34;

The Fall of Constantinople 1453 by

Sir Steven Runciman

&#34;The Emperor Constantine, simple, kind, brave, and straightforward, had gained the sympathy and admiration of all who had witnessed his wonderful patience, forbearance, and untiring devotion to the public interests. All present at that last Council were all animated by the deepest personal regard for the unhappy sovereign. Some of the statesmen again brought before the Council the proposal that the interests of the Empire required the Emperor and his Court to leave the City immediately, in as much as so long the Emperor lived there was hope that the Capital if lost now, might one day be regained.&#34;

The Prelate, who was at the head of the Clergy, the Patriarch Gregory having apparently in the meantime resigned his office, supported with great decision that proposition. He said, &#34;The servants of the altar saw unmistakable signs that it was God&#39;s will the City should now fall; but God&#39;s providence was unsearchable, and it might please Him to remember his people in mercy. If the Imperial City could not be saved, let the Emperor be saved! The Emperor should live, because in his person are centered the hopes of his people. We must all bow to the decree of the Almighty, whose mercy might return to our people as it had returned to Israel in olden times.&#34;

&#34;Then the Prelates pressed him to leave the City without delay, and the whole Council implored him to comply with this advice. After all who wished to speak had spoken, the Emperor addressed them in a quiet but resolute tone:

My friends, if it is God&#39;s will that our City shall fall, can we escape his wrath? How many Emperors great and glorious, before me have had to suffer and die for their country! Shall I be the one to flee from it? No, I will stay and die here with you.&#34;

Constantine Last Emperor of the Greeks

by

Chedomil Mijatovich

&#34;His companions fell, and sword in hand, amid the oncoming crowd of Janissaries and Sipahis, Constantine met the end that befitted a Roman Emperor and a faithful soldier of Christ.&#34;

The Byzantine Empire

by

Edward A. Foord

&#34;God forbid that I should live an Emperor without an Empire. As my city falls, I will fall with it.&#34;

&#34;Whoever wished to escape, let him save himself if he can; and whoever is ready to face death, let him follow me!&#34;

The Crescent and the Cross

by

David Dereksen





&#34;The spot ought to be hallowed to everyone who respects faithfulness to duty and patriotism, and who has sympathy with the single hearted hero of a great historic tragedy. The slab covers the remains of the last Greek Emperor, the patriotic and brave Constantine Dragesses.&#34;

Serb Ambassador to Britain Chedomil Mijatovich on alleged burial site of Constantinos in his book &#34;Constantine Last Emperor of the Greeks

&#34;Constantine told his hearers that the great assault was about to begin. To his Greek subjects he said that a man should always be ready to die for his faith or for his country or for his family or for his sovereign. Now his people must be prepared to die for all four causes. He spoke of the glories and the high traditions of the great imperial city. He spoke of the perfidy of the infidel Sultan who had provoked the war in order to destroy the true faith and to put his false prophet in the seat of Christ. He urged them to remember that they were the descendants of the heroes of ancient Greece and Rome and to be worthy of their ancestors. For his part, he said, he was ready to die for his faith, his city, and his people. He then turned to the Italians, thanking them for the great services that they had rendered and telling of his trust in them for the fighting that was to come. He begged them all, Greeks and Italians alike, not to fear the vast numbers of the enemy and the barbarous devices of fires and of noise designed to alarm them. Let their spirits be high; let them be brave and steadfast. With the help of God they would be victorious.&#34;

From Steven Runciman&#39;s the Fall of Constantinople 1453

&#34;His father Manuel II, when the Turks were at the gates of Constantinople in 1397, had uttered this prayer: &#34;Lord Jesus Christ let it not come to pass that the great multitude of Christian people should hear it said that it was in the days of the Emperor Manuel that the city, with all its sacred and venerable monuments of the faith, was delivered to the infidel. This was the ultimate misfortune of his son Constantine Palaiologos, the Last Emperor of the Romans. He had prayed that he might be killed rather than live to see the consequences. He was fortunate only in that his last prayer was answered.&#34;

The Immortal Emperor

by

Donald Nicol

&#34;An immediate search was ordered to locate the Emperor&#39;s body among the heaps of the slain. They washed the heads of many corpses, but the Emperor could not be identified. His body was finally spotted by means of the golden imperial eagles traditionally imprinted on the greaves and shoes of our Emperors. The Sultan rejoiced, became cheerful, and directed some Christians to bury the Emperor&#39;s body with imperial honors. Woe to Me! Divine providence should have decreed my death long before this day. My adored, most serene, and memorable emperor was fortynine years, three months, and twenty days when he perished.&#34;

From the Chronicle of George Sphrantzes

&#34;I sent two birds to the red apple tree, of which the legends speak. One was killed, the other was hurt, and they never came back to me. Of the marble emperor there is no word, no talk. But grandmothers sing about him to the children like a fairy tale.I sent two birds, two house martins, to the red apple tree. But there they stayed and became a dream..

From the Greek Song, O Marmaromenos Vasilias

&#34;The Sudden noise was horrifying. All along the line of the walls the Turks rushed in to the attack, screaming their battle-cries while drums and trumpets and fifes urged them on. The Christian troops had been waiting silently; but when the watchmen on the towers gave the alarm the Churches near the walls began to ring their bells, and church after church throughout the city took up the warning sound till every belfry was clanging. Three miles away, in the Church of the Holy Wisdom the worshippers knew that the battle had begun. Every man of fighting age returned to his post, and women, nuns amongst them hurried to the walls to help bring up stones and beams to strengthen the defences and pails of water to refresh the defenders. Old folk and children came out of their houses and crowded into the churches, trusting that the saints and angels would protect them.&#34;

The Fall of Constantinople 1453

by

Steven Runciman





&#34;As soon as the Turks were inside the City, they began to seize and enslave every person who came their way; all those who tried to offer resistance were put to the sword. In many places the ground could not be seen, as it was covered by heaps of corpses. There were unprecedented events: all sorts of lamentations, countless rows of slaves, consisting of noble ladies, virgins, and nuns, who were being dragged by the Turks by their headgear, hair, and braids out of the shelter of Churches, to the accompaniment of mourning. There was the crying of children, the looting of our sacred and holy buildings. What horror can such sounds cause! The Turks did not hesitate to trample over the body and blood of Christ poured all over the ground and were passing his precious vessels from hand to hand; some were broken to pieces while others, intact, were snatched away&#34;.

Eyewitness account from George Sphantzes friend and servant of the last three Palaiologi

&#34;Breaking down the doors with axes &#40;to Aghia Sophia&#41;, the Turks entered the church and dragged the fugitives off to slavery. Two by two, the men were tied together with cords, the women with belts, without consideration for age or station. Scenes of indescribable horror ensued. The statues of saints were shorn of their jewels and smashed. The gold and silver church vessels were seized, the altar cloths used for caparisons. Topped with a Janissary&#39;s cap, the crucifix was paraded in mockery. The conquerors used the altars as tables; when they themselves had finished eating on them, they turned them over to the horses for feed troughs or used them as beds on which to assault boys and girls.&#34;

Mehmet the Conqueror and his time

by

Franz Babinger



Remembering Constantinople

by

Theodoros Georgiou Karakostas Founder, Byzantine Cultural Project

On 29 May 1453 Constantinople, the great Capital of Christendom fell to the Ottoman Turks following a fifty-five day siege. For eleven centuries, the intellectual, religious, and political center of the Byzantine Empire was known as the &#34;God protected City&#34; because of the inability of foreign invaders to conquer it. The conquest of Constantinople by the Crusaders in 1204 was an exception, and ultimately it was this conquest that weakened the foundations of the Byzantine State, and paved the way for the eventual Ottoman conquest.

The history of the Byzantine Empire produced many famous Emperors beginning with Constantine the Great who founded Constantinople, and Justinian who presided over the building of the magnificent Church of Aghia Sophia. This vision of heaven on earth is named in honor of Christ as the name of the Church means literally &#34;Church of the Holy Wisdom.&#34; The last Emperor of the City was Constantinos Dragases Palaiologos, the third of five sons born to Emperor Manuel II and his wife the former Serbian Princess Helen Dragases.

The Emperor of Byzantium was considered the Viceroy of God on Earth. Numerous Emperors fought on behalf of the protection and advancement of Christendom. The seventh Century Emperor Heraclius is celebrated for his outstanding military achievements in liberating Jerusalem from the Persians, and for reclaiming the sacred Cross upon which Jesus Christ was crucified. In 678 AD, Emperor Constantine V saved Constantinople and all Europe from the Muslims who attempted to conquer the City by Sea. During the ninth Century, Emperor Nikephoras Phokas waged war against the Arabs and reclaimed Syria.

By the time that Constantinos Palaiologos inherited the throne of Christendom in 1448, most of the Empire had already been lost. The Fourth Crusade and the subsequent Civil Wars in the following century weakened the Empire considerably. Emperor Constantinos Palaiologos who was well admired and respected for his honesty, bravery and kindness, was tragically the weakest of all Emperors politically and militarily.

The ideals of the Byzantine Empire survived the fall of Constantinople. The Russians later declared Moscow to be the &#34;Third Rome&#34; on the basis that the niece of Emperor Constantinos had married Ivan III in 1472, and that Russia was the only land of Orthodox Christendom not conquered by the Sultans. In 1821, the Greeks rose up against the Ottoman yoke and reestablished their freedom. For a century, they began to slowly reverse the Ottoman conquests, but in 1922 as in 1453 they were abandoned and alone. In the city of Smyrna in 1922, there was a remarkable Greek Orthodox cleric named Chrysostom who emulated the example of Emperor Constantinos Palaiologos by refusing to leave his flock when the Turks once more arrived as conquerors, and likewise he suffered and died with his people.

The barbarism of 29 May 1453 was repeated on September 6, 1955 when the Greek community of Constantinople was violently assaulted by murderous mobs. Churches were desecrated in unseakable ways, and the homes and businesses of Greeks were destroyed. The difference of the atrocities of 1453 and 1955 are that the latter atrocities were committed in a nation that was a member of NATO, and the recipient of American aid. Washington continued to support Turkey, and threatened to cut aid to Greece if Athens did not fall into line.

In our own day, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is being assaulted by Turkish criminals acting at the behest of Ankara&#39;s criminal leadership. The Patriarch is being burned in effigy, and the Patriarchate is routinely bombed. Unlike the Ottoman period when the Turks were the scourge of Europe, Turkey is today embraced by the European Union, NATO, the United States, and Greece.

From the Serbs of Kosovo to the Greeks of Cyprus, Christianity suffers today from the heirs of the Ottomans. Europe made its accomodation with the Ottoman Empire following the capture of Constantinople. The great powers of our own day have done likewise with Islam in Turkey, Albania, Kosovo, Bosnia, Nagorno-Karabakh.

&#34;And our Lady when she heard it, her eyes filled with tears, And Michael, and Gabriel, they comforted her: Weep not, our lady, and be not tearful, With the passing of years and in time, they&#39;ll be ours again

[Vasilis Kirikos]

&#62; I am no theologian, but it is my understanding that according to the Orthodox point of view Our Lord comes again, and again and again for each of us when we die. And I cannot remember if this is what I conjectured or read; but it is my belief that no matter who you may be, a Christian or Buddhist, or Muslim, or Hindu or whomever, immediately after you die your soul is approached by Christ and immediately the soul knows who He is. At that point one is given a choice to follow Him or not; depending on the condition of the soul....whether or not a particular soul can stand His presence. I am not certain if this is correct Orthodox theology, but it works for me. Xristos Anesti! Vasilis

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Theophilus,
You wrote:


Thank you! So, then, a man "outside" the Church was gifted a faith greater than any "inside" the Church. Glory be to Christ the Almighty!

I don't think that someone outside of the Church has either a greater or even equal faith to someone in the Church.
We are talking here rather about intention and God works with a good intention (or even bad actually)to draw people to Him. This is still not identical to the Church even though it may lead to it.
Beyond this it is difficult to speak. The intention or desire is not entirely free of sin & confusion. And it is very difficult for us to distinguish in others between conscious rejection of God and ignorance due to circumstances. In the Lives of the Saints there are examples of how God judges these two differently.
So we are taught and know that salvation in its full & proper sense only comes from within the Church. And yet God leads those outside the Church towards His salvation according to their means. This is a mystery of God's providence & difficult for us to understand. But it is more comprehensible when we understand that by salvation we mean ultimately the Church. Teleologically this is where the teaching of the Church about One Truth heads. The present world of multiple 'truths' is only the result of sin and will be healed one day in Christ.
Christ in the parable of the wheat & the tares explains why He leaves it so for now. Before the final healing from death the complete destruction of sin & confusion would also result in the destruction of good intentions. Wheat would be torn up with tares. So we know there is One Church but at the other pole God ultimately leads other sheep to His One fold. And this is why we say sooner or later, now or after death or at the Second Coming, all will be in the Church for all will be Church. Except for those who consciously reject Christ.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[leandros]

Dear friends,

suppose that I have a sincere &#34;good intention&#34; of performing surgery on you, in the case you are suffering from an illness. What would be the result of practising my intention, not being myself a surgeon?

Intentions, good or bad, are referring to a fantasy world. A world that is not there, until we &#40;or somebody else&#41; manage to bring it into reality. This reality has to be faint and could only be expressed in the scope of our intention.

A real surgeon can not have the intention to perform a surgery. He either has the will to do what he is capable of doing or he is does not have the will. But, I can only have a mere intention for such an action, not being a real surgeon myself.

In this context, devil literally had the best intentions, by proposing to protoplasts to become Gods by themselves. Devil was not making a fool of Adam in his gesture to offer him a false divinity. Devil himself had tasted this false deification and he had found it to be so appealing, that he could not help himself not to share it with Eve. Then Eve did the same thing with Adam. Her intentions were good. Adam&#39;s intentions were good also as he followed Eve&#39;s suggestion.

In this context, what is the important issue here is reality against fantasy. This central issue is faced by Church in offering to her members the cleanness of their hearts in order to realize in experiential practise the reality of being human &#40;as of their own nature&#41; and the reality of being God &#40;as of Christ&#39;s nature&#41;, by eliminating fantasy and intentions from our lives.

Let me finally say, that I think in this context Churchill &#40;one of the most malignant leaders of last century, in my opinion&#41; was absolutely capable of having good intentions and he had an unprecedented sense of humour and he was genius. But he failed in living reality in a substantial manner.

[Ken McRae]

Fr. Raphael originally posted:-

01 - &#62;&#62; &#34;I don&#39;t think that someone outside of the Church has either a greater or even equal faith to someone in the Church.&#34; &#60;&#60;

Dear Father,

Concerning the Centurion&#39;s faith, Jesus said, &#34; Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.&#34; &#40; Matthew 8:10 &#41; How do you reconcile Christ&#39;s reference to this man&#39;s faith as the greatest in all of Israel with your assessment of it?

Fr. Raphael originally posted:-

02 - &#62;&#62; &#34;We are talking here rather about intention and God works with a good intention &#40;or even bad actually&#41; to draw people to Him. This is still not identical to the Church even though it may lead to it.&#34; &#60;&#60;

The &#34;natural&#34; man, which is to say, one who is &#34;not in Christ&#34;, is incapable of having any &#34;good&#34; intentions, as the following Scriptures clearly indicate:-

1 - &#34;GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.&#34; &#40;Gen. 6:5&#41;

2 - &#34;The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.&#34; &#40; Psalm 10:4 &#41;

3 - &#34;The LORD knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity.&#34; &#40; Psalm 94:11 &#41;

4 - &#34;The thoughts of the righteous are right: but the counsels of the wicked are deceit.&#34; &#40; Proverbs 12:5 &#41;

5 - &#34;The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the LORD: but the words of the pure are pleasant words.&#34; &#40; Proverbs 15:26 &#41;

6 - &#34;Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.&#34; &#40;Isaiah 55:7&#41;

7 - &#34;The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?&#34; &#40; Jeremiah 17:9 &#41;

8 - &#34;For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies.&#34; &#40; Matthew 15:19 &#41;

9 - &#34;And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.&#34; &#40; 1 Corinthians 3:20 &#41;

Concerning the Centurion, Jesus spoke not of his &#34;intention&#40;s&#41;&#34;, but of his &#34;faith&#34;, saying that He had &#34;not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.&#34; &#40; Matthew 8:10 &#41; Thus, the Centurion was not a &#34;natural&#34; man, but rather &#34;spiritual&#34; and highly exercised, it appears, in the mystery of faith; as a man does not arrive at this degree or level of faith over-night, as they say.

Fr. Raphael originally posted:-

03 - &#62;&#62; &#34; ... salvation in its full & proper sense only comes from within the Church.&#34; &#60;&#60;

Agreed. However, the operational or &#34;key&#34; word here, in my opinion, is &#34;full&#34;, which thus implies the existence of saving grace &#34;outside&#34; the canonical Church, in part. This is implied, I feel, in the Church&#39;s recognition of baptism&#40;s&#41; performed &#34;outside&#34; the canonical Church. The fact that many converts are received into Orthodoxy via the sacrament of chrismation, rather than baptism, attests to this. If the Orthodox Church recognizes the baptism of the non-Orthodox, it seems a contradiction to deny that the non-Orthodox received &#34;true&#34; baptismal grace.

Fr. Raphael originally posted:-

04 - &#62;&#62; &#34;And yet God leads those outside the Church towards His salvation according to their means. This is a mystery of God&#39;s providence & difficult for us to understand. But it is more comprehensible when we understand that by salvation we mean ultimately the Church.&#34; &#60;&#60;

To recognize and accept the baptism of the non-Orthodox is tantamount to admitting that they are members of Christ&#39;s Church, in some mysterious &#34;incomprehensible&#34; manner. By receiving the regenerating grace of baptism, they have already entered into His salvation, though only in &#34;part&#34;, and certainly not in its &#34;fullness&#34;.

Fr. Raphael originally posted:-

05 - &#62;&#62; &#34;Teleologically this is where the teaching of the Church about One Truth heads. The present world of multiple &#39;truths&#39; is only the result of sin and will be healed one day in Christ.&#34; &#60;&#60;

All non-Orthodox Christians believe in only One Christ, I feel, and thus in One Truth. I must qualify this, though, by saying that I do not regard as Christians any person or sect that denies the full deity of the Second and Third Persons of the Holy Trinity.

Non-Orthodox Christians, however, disagree as to the &#34;correct&#34; expression of that One Truth; and thus &#42;some&#42; have &#34;agreed-to-disagree&#34;, for the present moment, believing in, &#40;as you say,&#41; and looking forward to that glorious day in which these disagreements will be healed.

Fr. Raphael originally posted:-

06 - &#62;&#62; &#34;Christ in the parable of the wheat & the tares explains why He leaves it so for now. Before the final healing from death the complete destruction of sin & confusion would also result in the destruction of good intentions. Wheat would be torn up with tares.&#34; &#60;&#60;

Destroying sin and confusion would not result in the destruction of good intentions, I feel, but rather in their establishment. While it is possible to &#34;uproot&#34; the wheat, that is to say, wrongly excommunicate them, I do not believe this will seperate them from Christ, though it will place them outside the &#34;canonical&#34; Church. If they are indeed Christ&#39;s wheat, then being &#34;uprooted&#34; will not kill them and their good intentions. In this particular context, to be &#34;uprooted&#34; does&#39;nt mean to be cut off from Christ, but cut-off from the &#34;canonical&#34; Church. However, this is just my opinion, and I am both willing and ready to submit to the teaching of the Church and all her holy fathers.

Fr. Raphael originally posted:-

07 - &#62;&#62; &#34;So we know there is One Church but at the other pole God ultimately leads other sheep to His One fold. And this is why we say sooner or later, now or after death or at the Second Coming, all will be in the Church for all will be Church. Except for those who consciously reject Christ.&#34; &#60;&#60;

I must confess that this statement has me a little confused. Are you saying that Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and so on, will have another chance after death to repent of their sins and receive the Lord Jesus as their Eternal King and Saviour?

humbly,
Theophilus

&#40;Message edited by theophilus on 28 May, 2005&#41;

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Theophilus,
The one thing you may have overlooked is that I wrote the word be in bold letters towards the end of my post. That changes everything.
http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Spiros_Sechis]

Christ has risen everybody!!! I heard that old greek song yesterday,&#34;O Marmaromenos Vasilias&#34; and i was trying to remember the prophecies about Constantinople and Constantinos XI Palaiologos and &#34;Kokkini Milia&#34; and for my surprise i found out my ignorence about this wonderful myth...Can anybody help me on this issue? Thanks...

[louise Sheinholtz]

Hello all,
This is my first post and found someone who is more open minded and not as predjudiced as others. His name is Cosmas.
I am considered to be pretty consertive as a Christian. Not yet perfect so who am I to judge another as God said, &#34;take the mote out of thine own eye first before attempting to taking it out of anothers.&#34;
I don&#39;t know what it means to be orthodox so I came to learn.

Thanks

Louise

[John Michael Fowler]

I&#39;m not too use to posting stuff on the internet, anyhow, please pray for my lovely daughter Sabine.
First I&#39;d like to say how amazed I am at how long the pieces are people write, and how educated they are.
Most doctrinal points fly over my head, the important thing about our Saviour is the example he gave us to live by, the same as Father Arseny,
like &#39;way of the pilgrim&#39; no-one knows if that&#39;s true or not, the fact is I don&#39;t need proofs to know about the power of miracles and our faith.
About our Coptic friends, certainly the church near me seems full of love, the Greek churches seem haughty to me, and the eastern European ones seem to be a bit racist, I feel both look down on
English people, I&#39;ve never felt that with the Copts, whether they are in error or not.
As for Roman Catholics and Anglicans I think they know the Orthodox church has preserved the right way, but they can&#39;t leave their mother churches.
Christianity never really did it for me until I went to Tecuci, Romania and first saw the Orthodox service.
Some of these arguements are centuries old, and they will go on for centuries more, chaceldonians
will not become non-chaceldonians, both think they are right. There are other divisions, like
the calendar. I guess it is a central point of faith to many people. I am a chaceldonian myself,
I can see the filoque and the calendar and I know
that these are clear , but the nature of Jesus is beyond me, I guess only prayer gives us the answer, it&#39;s the only place it can be answered.
Please pray for my daughter, love to all, in christ John

[Antonios]

Dear John Michael,

Your post was a fresh of breath air to me... I too cannot grasp many of the doctrinal points that are posted on this site. Those people who do are well educated and have been graced by God. However, the beauty of the message of Christ is that you don&#39;t necessarily need to have command of the nuances of theology, but rather follow the way of Christ and allow Him to enter your heart in prayer. He gives us understanding without the need for explanation.

Luke 18:17 &#34;Assuredly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will by no means enter it&#34;

As for your child, I will pray for her.

in humilty and love,
Antonios

[John Michael Fowler]

Dear Antonios, thanks for your kind words.
I&#39;m not on the inter net that much, but however reading all these posts doesn&#39;t give me time to look at any naked ladies- so the evil of the inter net has been solved for me.
An old priest once replied to my question about the Virgin Mary with &#34;ask Her yourself&#34; maybe not a helpful reply but right in one way.
When you&#39;re in love you don&#39;t examine the woman&#39;s character that deeply, you don&#39;t pick apart the love, examine it. I feel the same about Jesus. Maybe it&#39;s a left over from the great Greek thinkers.
I do beleive the Holy Spirit works and guides us
but I am more inspired with Saint Seraphim&#39;s face glowing than I am by the Spirit guiding the saintly men of the church councils.
I guess though if you can&#39;t talk about these heavy issues here you can&#39;t talk about them anywhere,
love to everyone, John

[John Michael Fowler]

It&#39;s a slow day at work so I think I can add a few more words.
Does anyone know anything about Saint Sabine? That&#39;s my daughter&#39;s name, I&#39;d like an icon of her. I think she has protected my daughter, no doubt she is pleased to have a name-sake who isn&#39;t French,because every other Sabine must be, but I feel an icon will help .
Before people speak of America they should think PM Blair has been behind the US every step of the way. If the US declared war on Scotland we&#39;d be sending troops up there. Even Chirac was in favour of the war against Serbia which cleansed Kosovo of most of it&#39;s Orthodoxy. So we should each look at our own backyards. I agree with some sentiments though.
I don&#39;t really agree with psychology. It&#39;s research is mainly done in the white English speaking world, so for Africans let&#39;s say, it&#39;s useless. Some tests are multiple choice questionaires, as if people are like shoes all falling into sizes. Psychologists seem to be used more and more and to me it&#39;s a sign of atheism, often they are experts in courts. I think we are better sticking with the bible and St Maximus and these types of books. One remembers the Norweigan psychatrist who said all children with German fathers had that German evil inside them and put all those children into homes.

[Olga]

Off the top of my head, there would be at least a couple of saints &#40;male&#41; with the name Sabinus, who would do in the absence of a female saint Sabine. I&#39;ll look at my resources and let you know.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear John Michael Fowler,

While I agree that psychology is mostly researched and dominated by Western models of thought and ideologies, and I also agree that the popularity of psychology is a sign of increasing secularisation &#40;not always the same as atheism&#41;, I think it&#39;s important to point out that not all psychologists are atheists; there are at least two psychologists on this web forum. I wholeheartedly agree that there is more value-for-money, if you&#39;ll pardon the humour, in the Bible and the writings of St Maximus than I have ever found in a psychology textbook. While it&#39;s true that my own religious beliefs are not characteristic of people in my profession, they are not completely alien to it, either; whereas the Nowegian psychiatrist you mention &#40;whom I had certainly never heard of&#41;sounds like one of history&#39;s major hiccups, and his ideas of &#34;German evil&#34; don&#39;t sound very scientific. As a psychologist, my advice to Christians would be to carry on living their spiritual life as always, and not worry about needing to see a psychologist for issues best handled with the help of a spiritual father; however, sometimes pharmacological therapy can help with serious mental illness &#40;e.g. schizophrenia&#41;, and even psychotherapy may add a useful dimension to our being, in fact deepening and enhancing our capacity to love God and others, and certainly not providing a substitute for confession of sins. Choosing a psychologist who is sympathetic to spiritual issues is a good idea.

In Christ
Byron

[Anthony]

Sabine is a popular name in Germany as well as France, and I have a friend of that name for whom I would also ask your prayers. There is a St Sabina who was an early Roman martyr and has a church named after her in Rome; her feast day is 29th August. The only information I have been able to find about her is here (http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=756).

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear John,

There does not seem to be a usual type of icon of Saint Sabina. There is a very old rendering of her image from her tomb in Rome at this link.

http://www.op.org/international/assets/images/Curia/church05.jpg

If you can&#39;t find an Icon for your daughter from others here email me in a few weeks and I&#39;ll see what can be done for her. If I can expand the image from her tomb to see the facial features better I think an icon could be painted. I can&#39;t see those features well, getting older it seems. I&#39;ll check one other source, I know of an Orthodox Priest who has researched many western Saints I&#39;ll see what he knows.


In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Fr. George Morelli]

I want to respond to the individual who wrote the following quote in terms of the fullness of the charity of Our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ as much as an unworthy disciple capable of doing so is able given the grace of God. This person wrote the following:

“I don&#39;t really agree with psychology. It&#39;s research is mainly done in the white English speaking world, so for Africans let&#39;s say, it&#39;s useless. Some tests are multiple choice questionaires, as if people are like shoes all falling into sizes. Psychologists seem to be used more and more and to me it&#39;s a sign of atheism, often they are experts in courts. I think we are better sticking with the bible and St Maximus and these types of books. One remembers the Norweigan psychatrist who said all children with German fathers had that German evil inside them and put all those children into homes.”

As I eschew personal criticism in any manner shape or form … my sole motivation is to &#40;I humbly pray&#41; to be a follower of Our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. And to have been given the teachings passed onto mankind from the Father and made understandable to us by the Son and held firm by His Holy Spirit. First I invite all who are interested in this to go to the website of the Orthodox Christian Association of Medicine, Psychology and Religion [www.ocampr.org (http://www.ocampr.org)], &#40;a SCOBA endorsed association&#41; I also ask all who are interested in this to go back over any post I have made on any subject on the Monachos website. I eschew personal attacks in any manner shape or form and I do not want to offend anyone in this response. In this spirit I ask all to consider the following:

We are all made in God’s image: intelligence and free will &#40; a summary of our Church Fathers&#41;
St. Paul tells us to be: as ‘wise’ as serpents.
We have a tradition of the un-mercenary physicians in the church &#40;using spiritual as well as “scientific” [as they knew it and currently know it at the time] for healing physical, psychological and spiritual ills.
One of the major ways in the Eastern tradition of viewing sin is to consider it an ‘illness.’

If we do not use our intellect we are wasting a talent given to us by God. Our intellect is a talent. We are &#40;as reported to us in Genesis&#41; to care and understand the world. [Science is simply a tool to know the world in terms of the laws of creation as God created it. It is a method, constantly being updated and refined to weed out as much intellectual error our thinking as possible. The rules of science are usually agreed upon by those who ‘do the work’ of science. The proof or evidence in a scientific approach is in “prediction and control”: e.g. sending a rocket to the moon, predicting the degree of curvature of light as it passes from its source &#40;star-sun&#41; to earth as it passes an object with gravity [e.g. Einstein’s work]. To lump together as equal all that calls itself “science” is humanly anti-intellectual and spiritually violating God’s injunction to us to use the talent of our intellect. To use our ‘intellect’ ‘wisely’ is to root our bad [so called science] and to replace it with the ‘best’ science we can come to know at the present moment. For example, in past posts you may notice I have referred to psychoanalysis as ‘un-scientific’ … I did not discard all ‘real science’… psychoanalysis is unscientific because it violates the rules of science as we know it today: the terms used &#40;id, ego, etc&#41; are reifications. Psychoanalysis predicts everything therefore it predicts nothing, &#40;all propositions in science have to be able to be disproved&#41; and the data collection methodology is biased and thus flawed. Cognitive-Behavioral Psychology and current neuro-psychological research is on the other hand at the cutting edge of ‘good’ science and is constantly being refined. In one example from the quote above, the writer is targeting “multiple choice questionnaires” .. but instead of pointing out the flaws of a particular study …[’ the baby so to speak is thrown out with the bath water’]: A general dismissal of ‘all’ of this research is made. In actuality in “good” science we have mathematical means of determining the validity and reliability of any research instrument or methodology. Then it has to pass the test of prediction and control in not only a laboratory but a real life settings &#40;ecological validity&#41;. The quote above is un-intellectual and not in conformity with our gift of intellect as God gave us to use it.

&#40;Two little side notes: First: a medication was just approved this week for the exclusive use of Blacks for cardiac problems by the FDA in the U.S. [not surprising to me because of the genetic &#40;thus biological differences between Blacks and non-Blacks.—as there are genetic and thus biological differences among many subsets of the human population created by God] Second: I heard on KNX radio, Los Angeles today .. a survey of physicians indicated about a 70% belief in God…..a surprise to the radio commentators &#40;and to me&#41; ….[I don’t even want to approach the issue of faith among the general population of physicians as so many practical, seemingly incongruous moral issues may go along with this ::: abortion, birth control, euthanasia …but taking this statistic &#40;if it is true&#41; with the divine virtue of Hope then this could be a start of a dialogue with this group as St. Paul did with the Athenians.&#41;

Now from all of the above it may seem: Where is God? God is the Creator and Sustainer of all the universe including ourselves. We know Him in our hearts, of course now dimly. We can have Him by His grace at baptism and His continual graces He gives us by our cooperation, in us and come to experience His energy &#40;we can never know His essence&#41;.

As the OCAMPR logo illustrates we are Body-Mind-Spirit: three partly overlapping circles, forming a trinity, conjoined in the middle. God created the “laws” of each of these aspects of ourselves as well as how they would interact. It behooves us to use the ‘best’ of physical medicine to treat physical disorders &#40;in Christ’s name&#41; , the best of psychological treatment to treat psychological-emotional disorders &#40;in Christ’s Name&#41; and use the best of spiritual treatment [the totality of the teachings of Christ and His Holy Mysteries] as [passed on to us by His Holy Catholic-Orthodox Church].-----this spiritual dimension has to overshadow and enliven all healing on every level as we are called as St. Maximus the Confessor states, &#40;in paraphrase&#41; ‘from Him we come ….toward Him we go’ ….FrGeorge

[leandros]

Fr. George Morelli, bless us,

I have a &#34;strange&#34; question, nevertheless I ask in absolute seriousness: is there a difference between &#34;Orthodox Christian Association of Medicine, Psychology and Religion&#34; and &#34;Orthodox Christian Association of Mathematics and Geometry&#34; ?

&#34;Orthodox Christian Association of Mathematics and Geometry&#34; is a hypothetical entity, but I ask the question in the context of designation of science as &#34;Orthodox Christian&#34;. Is there non-&#34;Orthodox Christian&#34; Medicine, Psychology, Religion, Mathematics and Geometry?

Is there a distinction between Orthodox Christian science and non-Orthodox Christian science?

If the association was named &#34;Orthodox Christian Association of Physicians&#34;, I would have not asked this question.

[Fr. George Morelli]

Leanrdros.. Glory to Jesus Christ! I must admit wearing my psychology cap it originally seemed somewhat strange lumping medicine and psychology together. It would have made sense to have an Orthodox Psychology Society. However if we look at the Our Lord’s life and church history: we have Our Lord’s beautiful example of healing physical, mental and spiritual illness &#40;sin&#41;. St. Luke a physician who is identified as such by St. Paul &#40;Col 4:14&#41;, who recorded so many of Our Lord’s healing miracles, the history of un-mercenary physicians in the Church, the spiritual direction of our holy fathers passed on to us by their writings—all in Christ’s name ----if you look at the OCAMPR Constitution and Goals and Purposes: ---Man created by God with Body-Mind and Spirit, it fits so beautifully. In as much as all healing is in Him—in Him all things hold together. So in this spirit, OCAMPR works. Science is not Orthodox in itself, but ‘good’ use of our intellect [good vs. bad science] and doing all [in this case healing] in the name of Jesus is ‘so’ Orthodox. In our Trisagian Prayers we say “….heal my infirmities for Thy Name’s sake.” If this is not the answer to your question please e mail me back and we can try to clarify this further ……in the healing Christ’s name …FrGeorge

[leandros]

Bless Fr. Morelli,

Let me address this message to Dr. Morelli the psychologist, not to Fr. Morelli the priest, as each ministry is independent from the other.

I have always thought that &#34;good&#34; use of our intellect is not an Orthodox privilege. Actually my brother in law suffers from schizophrenia, and I always thought that the doctor that prescribes his medicine would very well be a Muslim, or am I wrong?

I think I understand correctly, If I say that you are not talking of secular paramedical services &#34;supplementary&#34; to &#34;main&#34; Orthodox Church “therapy”.

My original question implied that science, economy, politics, social secular life in general can not be characterized as &#34;Orthodox&#34;. Isn&#39;t it this secular life common for all humans?

Psychology, medicine, mathematics, architecture and every science are common and same for everyone. Of course there are people that use science of mathematics for “bad” purpose or in a &#34;bad&#34; scientific mode, but this is the way, of trial and error, that secular life works. I think that same thing happens with psychology too.

Church, as a “clinic” that provides “healing”, uses Her glorified members –deified persons- that by having their hearts cleaned they are gifted by the Grace of the Spirit, Which guides them to become themselves spiritual guides for the rest Church members. Likewise spiritual fathers carry the cross of their children in Christ.

I know that you are well aware of all that. I apologize for presenting them, but I do not present them as points of disagreement with you, Father. I report them so that you can follow my line of thought.

Is it, then, possible to mix the ministries of secular medication/life with that of spiritual guidance? Aren’t we creating by such mixing a sectarian Christian society/life within the human society? Isn’t this either a secularization of Church or a churchization of life? How can you operate OCAMPR out of these limits? I am neither judging intentions here, nor I accuse the members of OCAMPR of anything.

But I can’t find the difference, from a patient’s point of view, between an Orthodox psychologist, member of OCAMPR and a non-orthodox psychologist that is not a member of OCAMPR, if they both have the same scientific education and training.

I understand that you, Father, as a priest, you perform both ministries at once, but what about non clergy psychologists, how are they benefit from “Christian psychology” as long as they don’t have the chrism of Priesthood?

[Andrew Williams]

leandros,
I can tell you from experience that there is a world of difference between secular psychologists and Christian ones. Our philosophy/worldview/faith will of course influence what theories and understandings we bring to whatever we do. Also, psychology and mathematics are not directly comparable: 2&#43;2=4 is a different proposition from this or that behaviour leads to this or that consequence which can be dealt with in this or that way. And if one&#39;s faith does not affect the whole of one&#39;s life, what is it? As far as I understand it, we are to give our whole life to Christ. Someone who does not have faith in Christ will not be doing that.

[Fr. George Morelli]

Leandros …Glory to Jesus Christ! Let me attempt to respond to your points …. I cannot be Dr. &#40;alone&#41; because I am Fr. A committed Orthodox layperson by their baptism is a member of the royal priesthood. While superficially the observed actions may be the same between what is done by an Orthodox and say a pagan…we know that that the holy mysteries of the church are such because accompanied by a visible action is also imparted by the grace of the holy spirit a supernatural-spiritual effect. If a mother puts a band-aid on the arm of her hurt child and she does so out of love of Christ and as an act of Charity in the spirit of the church through the grace of the Holy Spirit more than just the observable act can occur in some way her child if God grants her prayer can be enlivened . …To someone non-Christian baptism is simply immersing a child in water. We through the teachings of Christ, made dimly visible to us at Pentecost by the Holy Spirit and passed through apostolic succession to the Body of Christ today know that the power of baptism in what is occurring invisibly, mystically so to speak. Now technically a Moslem physician or psychologist may be “better” than an Orthodox practitioner. Please note the stress I laid on to do the ‘best’ science, the best clinical practice that one can do with the talent given to us by God. Of course if I were in a location that had a highly trained, top of the line Moslem surgeon, and mediocre Orthodox ---yes I would choose the Moslem ---however anyone who does anything in the name of Jesus and out of His love adds that spiritual dimension which we know is unfathomable. In my own practice I interweave what I pray is the ‘best’ psychotherapeutic science &#40;cognitive-behavior therapy&#41; with scripture, the teachings of the church fathers --- I really try to heal the whole person body-mind-spirit, as God gives me the grace to do so. While a secular psychologist may be technically proficient the spiritual healing would be missing …. What a blessing this is. Of course as a an unworthy priest I have the additional grace of the instrumental priesthood of the one and only true priest, Our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ … so that I can be an instrument of the healing of Holy Unction and Holy Confession and imparting His Body and Blood … but all practitioners who are part of the Royal Priesthood can pray for the healing of their patients, pray with them, also use Scripture and the teaching of the Holy Fathers and witness Christ is their lives ….yes in my view there is Orthodox Psychology. ……unworthy priest George

[leandros]

Thank you, Father George and Andrew, for your responses.

My question&#40;s&#41; has been answered.

Let me say in the spirit of Fr George that, my mother still uses oil from vigil candle, which lights in front of iconostasis, to cure small skin maladies and light wounds of her grandchildren, together with prayers. Of course, she uses prescribed medication for severe cases, but, then, she crosses the ill-being part of the body with her right hand in the usual Orthodox way. It’s a pious tradition transmitted from generation to generation as part of living faith.

[Carlos]

Let me address this message to ... the psychologist, not to ... the priest, as each ministry is independent from the other.

That&#39;s silly. They&#39;re not independent at all. Pretty presumptuous!

Carl

[nurse-aid]

and even one Elder wrote that this IS wrong for the priest go and stady psychology in order to help peple more...wrong! becuse he must be more concern about accure that HOLY SPIRIT...by helping to himself first...

[John Michael Fowler]

Dear all, first sorry to father George, maybe it is wrong to equate psychology to atheism. However psychology is used a great deal in this country, and I can&#39;t see it&#39;s use. If I look at myself I am totally different to anyone else, I am English Orthodox, count how many there are of those, I play the trumpet and like old jazz music, how many less are there like that,etc. etc/ whittle it down, and you&#39;re left with just me, I am not acting according to a pattern. I am sad about things, but I think why I am sad and usually there are clear and concrete reasons.We are all like that,but I am neither eloquent or educated, so I will check out that website and research more. But accept my apologies anyone I have offended.
Thanks Olga for the information, I will pray to Saint Sabinus. Thanks to Anthony as well, it is nice to know that it is a popular name in Germany, so England, France and Germany united, for the first time in history! Thanks to me.
Sorry again to Father George, I do feel like the guy in the pub who has drank too much debating with academics, maybe that&#39;s not too wide of the mark,
in Christ
John Michael

[Anthony]

&#40;Message edited by anthony on 28 June, 2005&#41;

&#40;Message edited by anthony on 28 June, 2005&#41;

[John Michael Fowler]

Father George, thank you for your gracious reply. In the UK psychologists have gained a power in certain areas of law. Maybe that isn&#39;t the case in the rest of the world. I myself have seen a psychologist who diagonised me as depressed,remote and paranoid, depressed, well I have had three children die in miscarriage, my surviving child is ill, not seriously though, and my mother died of cancer- so
that&#39;s why I&#39;m sad- but I don&#39;t drink- much- and I don&#39;t smoke or do drugs. Paranoid, well you&#39;re not paranoid if people actually have acted against you. Remote, well we can go back to St Maximus who seemed to think remoteness was a good thing. Of course I got a second oppinion I saw an
Indian Doctor who was a Psychatrist and he said I have no problems at all. There are good and bad in all professions, do you know anyone in England or Wales?
I am quite a beleiver in St Sabine, my daughter has been saved by a miracle in many ways, I am sure Anthony&#39;s friend will be OK,
yours

John Michael

[leandros]

Dear friends,

I do not know what the case in other countries is, but in my country, Greece, psychologists are not considered to be &#34;Doctors&#34; but paramedics. Psychology is a paramedical profession.

Diagnose of mental illness is considered an absolute privilege of Psychiatrists, who study medicine, that is physiology and chemistry and pathology of human body, neuron and brain functionality and they practise all these by having many years of clinical training in hospitals.

So, I understand the reaction of John Michael Fowler that was mistreated as a “patient” by receiving “treatment” from an a non authorized/qualified “professional”. I am not saying this to make John ever angrier, or more stressed. Thank God, he is free now from this misfortune.

Psychologists are quite useful as paramedics in offering their services, under the guidance and orders of a Psychiatrist, in case of mentally ill patients, by providing services like psychometric tests and behavioural evaluation, but they are not capable to diagnose pathological illness.

My brother in law is ill from Schizophrenia since his adolescence, so I have personal experience from such situations.

The proper professional for mental illness is a Psychiatrist. Psychologist are usefull too, but they can not &#40;and they must not&#41; substitute a Doctor of Psychiatry.

[Fr. George Morelli]

Leandros ..Glory to Jesus Christ! .. Just an informative reply. In the United States psychologists go to Graduate School and receive a Ph.D., Ed.D. or Psy.D. degree. Licensure is by state. Most states require between 3000 to 6000 hours of clinical supervision, pass a written and then an oral exam and then every renewal period &#40;like in California 2 years complete 36 hours of continuing education &#40;CE credits&#41;. The doctoral dissertation for the Ph.D. is research-theory oriented, the Ed.D. is research-applied oriented and the Psy.D. is applied oriented. There has been a movement over the past 10 years or so to allow psychologists to dispense psychotropic medication. Special training is required to do so. This is already happening in the VA system and the Dept. of the Army. Several states are close to passing this also. In all states a psychologist is a “physician under law” licensed to “diagnose and treat mental disorders. From experience I will tell you the training is very rigorous. Now to this add the gifts of healing Christ gave us and the holy mysteries …. What a gift .. In Christ …Fr. George

[John Michael Fowler]

Dear Leandros, thank you for clarifying this for me, no I don&#39;t feel angry. I don&#39;t want to be like Tom Cruise, I was impressed by the psychatrist I met, however, they don&#39;t really listen much to psychatrists in this country. Your words have been very informative to me, as have Father George&#39;s words, in Christ John Fowler.

[John Michael Fowler]

Oh I didn&#39;t thank Matthew for that image of St Sabine, it&#39;s about the best thing I have come accross.
thanks

[Anthony]

Sadly my friend&#39;s father died today. I thank everybody who has prayed for him, and ask for your prayers for his repose.

Anthony

[Antonios]

My prayers are with your father and your family.

&#34;Among the saints, oh Christ, give rest to the souls of your servants. Where there is no pain, nor sorrow, nor sighing, but life everlasting.&#34;

May his memory be eternal and may God rest his soul.

[Anthony]

Dear Antonios,

I am very grateful for your kind words. It is not actually my own father, but the father of a close friend. &#40;I suppressed the original post because I didn&#39;t have their permission to talk about them on the Internet.&#41; My friend is interested in Orthodoxy, and has asked for our prayers. Thank you again.

Anthony

[Antonios]

In my haste, I misread your post. I will pray for your friend and his family &#40;but will continue to pray for you and yours!&#41;

in humilty and love,
Antonios

[John Michael Fowler]

To everyone, actually there was a minor problem I wished to put to you all.
I had a collaegue visit the Ukraine, I said &#39;bring me back an icon&#39; he did- it was a Catholic one, but I put it on the wall. My best friend went to Madras and I said to him bring me back something concerning Saint Thomas, he did a Jesus with a sacred heart- made in Switzerland- what should I do with these things? Both did it out of ignorance because they don&#39;t know Catholic from Orthodox.I know a catholic family I could give them to, but what if my friend visits me and asks where it is? Personally I do not like having RC icons in the house, but I love my friend, in Christ John

[Kosmas Damianides]

Dear John Michael Fowler,

Take them to a priest or a church to be blessed and never bring them home again. http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/biggrin.gif

But seriously I would ask my friend if it was ok to give them to someone who needs them more, &#40;like a Catholic&#41; but don&#39;t mention that they are for a Catholic.

Sooner or later, however, I think you should teach your friends the theological differences in icons if you truly love your colleagues.

In Christ
Kosmas