An ultra-conservative Catholic's view on Pope John Paul

[Fr. Michael Shanbour]

Dear brethren,

An acquaintance who has done some work on our facilities has very strong views on Pope John Paul which are rather at odds with those who consider him a "conservative," and teaching of traditional Roman Catholicism. This is not based on his adherence to catholic teaching on morality, but rather what he refers to as his "ecumenism."

This man says that the Pope placed a statue of Buddah on the altar (not sure what altar), prayed with Muslims, etc. If this is true, is this not in fact out of the character of a traditional Christian?

I am delighted that this Bishop of Rome was a genuine lover of Jesus Christ and man of prayer. But what if the next Pope is not?

As an observer of all this, I feel as though I am "required" to praise the Pope for holding traditional Christian values or doctrine! Isn't this the NORM for a Bishop of a Christian Church? I know that this is my expectation for every Orthodox Bishop. Yet it appears sometimes that the whole world is surprised or in awe of this Pope for being what he is called to be. A little ironic to me, and indicative of how far we've fallen.

There is much talk of unity -- and anyone who questions the content of this unity tends to be branded as a "hater." I am all for unity, yet are we allowed to talk about the real doctrinal issues? Forgive me, but giving back some relics that were stolen years ago does not unity make.

There are still some small issues such as the supremacy of the Pope of Rome, his infallability and universal authority. Also, the Immaculate Conception, original sin, uncreated grace, to name a few.

The agenda of unity has not inhibited the Roman Catholics from proselytizing in Russia and continuing the promotion of "Eastern Rite."

I think the commentator on the RC Television channel summed it up when, during the Pope's visit to the Middle East, with an Orthodox cleric speaking at the microphone he said: "And there is the Holy Father with some of our brother Muslims, and hierarchs of various Christian sects." I guess the love was so powerful in the room that day that the Orthodox were overlooked and could not be mentioned.

Just one man's opinion -- but I'm not ready for a "unity" without real unity.

[nurse-aid]

that is why i said my prayer for him like that:

....Most Holy Mother, my Protector, cover me and comfort me in that last moment, by your maternal love, find excuses for my deeds, read my heart and speak for me to Your Son! Cry out to Him to have mercy on me according to the desires of my heart and not according to my mistakes and weakness, not according empty folder of my life deeds! I was so weak O God, so terribly weak!

The Saints of all time pray for my soul at that moment, by the holiness of your lives, convinces our Father to see me so small and vain, as I’m! So my Lord will have not asks much from me, will not judge me from highest standard, but rather have compassion on me who is such insignificant! Ask HIM, Who is Merciful and Compassionate, to forgive me and by His Own Holy and Precious Blood, which he shared for everyone, ransom me from devils hands! And let me enter the New and Everlasting life, clean and forgiving, in the name the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit! Amen.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Fr Michael,
You wrote:\quote {but I'm not ready for a "unity" without real unity.}
From the beginning of my sojourn as an Orthodox Christian I have been told that this was the official position of the Orthodox Church about unity. In effect how can we have unity without first having attained a basic unity of Faith? Or to put it the other around to our non-Orthodox Christian friends- the reason we cannot accept unity is because we have not yet attained unity of Faith.
Will there be unity anytime soon? Only God (and perhaps saints of great insight) knows. But I was positively struck by the 60 Minutes program on Sunday on graduates from a RC college or seminary in Rome from America. Almost all were more traditional and one young man about to be ordained to the priesthood commented that his generation of Roman Catholics was more conservative than that of 20 years ago. Sound familiar? But a return to 'traditional' values could result in a return to regarding us openly as heretics as much as a return to Patristic standards. And how much would the normal pew-sitting faithful accept such fundamental changes towards traditional values? Let's hope & pray this happens- then perhaps miracles may really begin to occur. After all as another Orthodox website pointed out- the Popes of the Middle Ages certainly began what amounted to a spiritual revolution (negative by our standards)-so why not a new Pope who starts a revolution towards Patristic standards? Is this unrealistic or not?
I would also submit that before other Christians (we are mostly talking about Roman Catholics here though) go too far talking about unity- come visit our churches & watch our piety & mind-set. How do you react to this? I don't mean one visit but really getting to know us & our lives. If you do this you may understand why we are so adamant about our Faith-what it is that is so valuable to us that we want to retain.
In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Fr. Michael Shanbour]

Dear to Christ, Father Raphael:

My post may have been misleading...I am an Orthodox Priest of the Antiochian Archdiocese. I do think an awareness and experience of the Orthodox Church by Roman Catholics would be a very positive thing.

My experience with Roman Catholics, though, is basically two-fold: 1. either they are relativists, so that truth is not an issue they are concerned with -- they enjoy experiencing our services, just about as much as they do a Jewish or Hindu service; or 2. they have a sincere, but blind obedience to the Papacy and the RC perspective of church history that they are unlikely to even re-think anything. Even these folks, however, likely consider we Orthodox pretty much "Catholic" like them.

There is so much re-educating to be done! I heard a story recently of an Orthodox who presented the writings of St. Gregory the Great, Pope of Rome, regarding no Bishop being called "universal." The reaction was that either this cannot be an authentic letter of St. Gregory, or he could not have been speaking "ex cathedra" or something. In the face of undeniable evidence, the response is denial. This is where I think RC's are on these matters.

Until the issue of "authority" in the Church is resolved I don't see much real potential for unity of faith.

It appears to me that many Orthodox put these essential issues aside in order to "feel good" about themselves or have others feel good about them.

Unity will begin with the recognition and restoration of a true Conciliar perspective on the Bishop of Rome and the other Patriarchs.

Forgive me,
Fr. Michael
Christ the Savior Antiochian Orthodox Church
Spokane Valley, WA

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Fr Michael,
I very much share your views on this issue.
Addressing the issue of the other thread on who we pray for- I also wonder if this is why the Church has us be restrained in who we pray for publicly in the services (rather than in our personal prayers). Prayer outside of the parameters of what the Church provides in the wording of the litanies,etc can lead to a kind of 'free prayer' guided by the spirit of relativism. I think this happens naturally unless we are very cautious. We forget that Christ & His Truth are the final arbiters of all things- whereas in prayer our own sentiment comes into play & it is easy to reach the conclusion that "everything is alright" with the person we are praying for. This again gets to the idea that I mentioned in the other thread that if we are not careful we begin thinking as if our prayer makes a kind of super-church above the actual Church of Christ which of course is false.
In Christ- Fr Raphael