Advice to a Muslim

[Gudmund]

Peace!

Currently a muslim (convert to islam) thinking of becoming orthodox after 13 yrs in islam. Brought up as a pentecostal christian.

Any advice on:
-literature
-how to navigate between all ethnical and other differances amongst ort. christians
-how to learn more about the Trinity, maybe some intelligent articles
-namechanging

Thanks,

Gudmund
Sweden

[Warren Bensinger]

Gudmund
Welcome.
I'm new to the forum and can't give you much help but would like to welcome you and will pray for your understanding in the info you do get.

warren
t.s.

[Richard Leigh]

Dear Gudmun,

If your friend converted from Pentecostal Chriatianity to Islam, I don't think it would be helpful to go into too many complications of the faith. Just some historical things relating to the various Christian heresies that Mohamad picked and chose from to construct his non-Chriatian religion.

I think just taking him or her to the liturgy on some regular basis would be the best place to start. I'm curious to know what is attracting your friend to Orthodoxy? It is best to start with the point of interest, I would think.

Richard

[Jim Nee]

Gudmund,

A resource I am finding invaluable is Bishop Kalistos Ware's The Orthodox Way (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0913836583/lifescocktail-20/102-1794743-8307309?creative=125581&camp=2321&link_code=as1) -. May God grant you wisdom as you search for Him.

[Lawrence]

Try doing a Google search on Father Daniel Byantoro.

[Gudmund]

Peace!

Sorry for being absent. Haven't had access to the Net (spiders web) for a while.

I was actually writing about my self.

I have read Kallistos Wares book, it is available in swedish. Good one.

Since I wrote this question I have been in contact with some swedish orthodox christians and will visit a swedish mass along with my wife and son (7 months young) on saturday. The lithurgy is in swedish and as I never have been at any orthodox mass it will be interesting.

I am a muslim, belonging to the sunni-hanafi school since 13 years back. I'm not very disappointed with islam or so, I just feel that perhaps christianity in its most traditional form could be a religion closer to my swedish heritage and still haver many of the things I appreciate in islam (a serious religion taking itself serious, fasting, prostration, a mystic path of repeated prayer: dhikr/Jesusprayer, etc.).

...

[Gudmund]

...

Currently I still pray the islamic daily prayers, al-salât. But me and my wife are reading much about orthodoxy. We borrowed some from the library and bough some from Internet and a orthodox bookshop here in Stockholm.

Our main issue is to try to understand the Trinity. It quite hard I must admit.

And even if we won't "understand" it - because in more than one sense it seems to be a mystery that one has to experience more than understand -
it is still difficult to approach God Almighty through the Trinity instead as in islam throgh a strict unitarian perspective.

Yours,

Gudmund

[Melissa]

Dear Gudmund,
I wish you well in your enquiring about Orthodoxy. One thing my spiritual advisors told me was not to worry too much in the beginning about understanding everything, even difficult things like the Trinity, and even things about Orthodoxy I found challenging, but rather to live with my struggle/disagreement while continuing to read, talk, and experience the faith through liturgies and other services. This was very hard advice for me to take - it felt so important to "understand" before making a commitment to Orthodoxy. However, it's the best advice I've ever had. This is said as an American (of Swedish heritage) who's flirted with Buddhism but was raised as a Lutheran and then attended a Presbyterian church for years; your path has been different so your experience will of course be different, but I thought I'd pass this on. When my husband and I were Catechumens, it was a difficult and very rewarding time in our marriage, as we confirmed our decision to become Orthodox. We were also searching for a church that meant what it said and had a structure that supported it's faith tradition; and that supported us in continual growth in our ability to live as God wills. We have found that in Orthodoxy, although of course, there is some discussion about some things in all faiths. For us, it truly has been a "coming home."
I'll pray for you and your wife and baby, that God's Grace will move your hearts, and your decision will become clear to you.
God bless you.
Melissa

[John Wilson]

Here is an interview with Father Daniel Bambang of the Orthodox mission in Indonesia.
Father Daniel interview (http://www.pr.ru/emmaus/samples/Indonesi.pdf)
He presents the Trinity in a way that is not easily misunderstood by people of a Moslem background, as opposed to the description that both Eastern and Western Christians are familiar with, which to a Moslem mind describes three gods, not one God.

I hope this is some help to you Gudmund.

God bless,

John.

[John Wilson]

Ah, I see Lawrence Dibble already suggested searching for Father Daniel.

[David Kinasevych]

Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

I am new here, and so far I like what I see: mature conversation about faith and a strong presence of Orthodox clergy! I hope to get to know you all and enjoy your company.

I read part of the article posted above by Father Daniel Byantoro. Thank you so much for the posting! It is a wonderful article!

[patrick oshana]

dear gudmund
i would like to give u a better understanding on the trinity. We believe that the father,son and holy spirit are 1 god and not 3.1+1+1=3 right so that will make it 3 gods but if u do 1*1*1=1. Ill give u another example this one my priest told me when i was accused of believing in 3 gods which rocked my faith.He told me to light a candle and go into a dark room and he said the fire of the candle is the FATHER and the light that comes from the candle is the SON how jesus said Iam the light of the world and the heat is the HOLY SPIRIT the fire which burns within u they are 3 different things but the same essence just like water it can be a liquid and ice and steam but its still H2O the same essence the HOLY TRINITY is 1.Brother i hope u get a better understanding of the christian faith CHRIST said blessed is he who hungers and thirsts for righteousness for he shall be filled god bless u brother.

[Vasilis Kirikos]

Dear Gudmund,
I found this site written by a former Muslim. Perhaps you will find it helpful.
In Christ,
Vasilis

By Abdullah Ibrahim
Christians do not believe that Jesus is the son of God in a physical sense. God forbid that he should take a wife! That would be blasphemy. However, they do believe that Jesus is the Son of God in a spiritual sense. Arabs, for example, are commonly known as "sons of the desert". Nobody would ever think that the desert would have given physical birth to the Arabs. No, the term "sons of the desert" has to be understood in a spiritual sense. Arabs know the desert in and out; they are one with it, that is why they are called "sons of the desert." In the same way the Quran calls a wayfarer a "son of the road", "ibn as sabeel" (Surah2 , Al Baqarah, verse177 ) The Arabic word "ibn" is used in a figurative sense as opposed to "walad" which is used in a physical way.
Besides having many other titles, such as "Messiah" or " Son of man", Jesus calls himself "Son of God" because he knows Him in a profound way, he is one with Him in essence.
They all asked, "Are you then the Son of God?" He (Jesus) replied, "You are right in saying I am." (Luke22 :70)
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father..." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father ... Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me?" (John14 :8-10)
Because God is so much greater than man, He chooses to express Himself in human terms so that we can understand Him. When Surah 22, Hajj, verse 61 says that Allah sees and hears, it does not mean He has ears and eyes. Rather He is expressing a spiritual truth in such a way that we can understand that He is All-knowing. Similarly, behind the title "Son of God" is a spiritual truth expressed in human terms.
The Bible calls a number of people "sons of God" but Jesus is addressed as such in a particular way:
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John3 :16)
The Greek word for "one and only son", "mono-genes", means literally, "one in kind, unique" and has sometimes been incorrectly translated into Enlish as "only begotten". This rendering is wrong because "Mono-genes" is also used in Hebrews11 : 17to describe Isaac as Abraham's "one and only son", namely the one who was promised by God to Abraham and his wife Sarah. (Genesis15 ) Since Ishmael too was Abraham's son, but through his servant Hagar (Genesis16 ), the term "one and only" distinguishes Isaac as being uinque in his kind but not as the only begotten.
Furthermore, the Hebrew word used to describe Isaac in the Old Testament story as "only son" in Genesis22 : 2is completely different from the word "begotten" used, for example, in Psalm2 :7:
I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father (or, I have begotten you).
"In the ancient Near East the relationship between a great king and one of his subject kings, who ruled by his authority and owed him allegiance, was expressed....also by "father" and "son"." (N.I.V. Studybible, Zondervan Bible Publishers, U.S.A.,1985 , footnote) Psalm2 : 7is applied to the relationship between God and Jesus in a filial not in a carnal sense in Acts13 : 33as having been a fulfilled prophecy through his resurrection.
Just as other people are called "one and only sons" in the Bible because of their uniqueness in some ways, Jesus too is called exclusively "one and only son of God." On a number of occasions he made statements to prove this fact:
All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. (Luke10 :22)
Nobody else has ever used such language to speak about himself!
(For more examples see: John5 :22-23, Luke20 :9-19, Matthew3 :17)
Jesus, the Son of God, has come to show us what God is like:
No-one has seen God; but God's only Son, He who is nearest to the Father's heart, he has made him known. (John1 :18)

[Vasilis Kirikos]

I would like to pose this question: I cannot see how one could possibly be led to follow any written document regarding the God of Israel NOT originating from the Jewish background?? Clearly, Mohammad had NO such background; no connection to the chosen people of the Lord; no connection to Israel. Therefore, how can anyone seriously consider Mohammad as a spokesperson for The Lord no matter how genuine the intention?? That is why, right from the start, I have a problem with the Mormons (a group of polytheists; Mormons believe that Jesus is “a god“; and that Jesus‘ mother and father are Adam and Eve and that Satan, another god, is Jesus‘ brother!! Another book written by a lady in New York called "A Course in Miracles" is not in any Bibical form; and Russell’s New World Version of the Bible he invented for his religion Jehovah’s Witnesses (another group of polytheists who believe that Jesus is "a god") .
Am I missing something? Hasn't it always been a prerequisite that messengers from The Lord had Jewish roots?
Additionally, Mohammad seems more than a bit confused as to who called him or how he was called to be god‘s messenger. The Qur`an recites in Sura 53: 2-18 and again in Sura 81: 19-24 that god appeared to Mohammad in the form of a man and Mohammad saw and heard him. But he changes his story as to the particular event of his INITIAL CALLING again and again. E.g., in Sura 16:102 and Sura 26:192-194 he says that he was called by The Holy Spirit. There is a BIG problem here for at least some Muslims because many Muslims claim that Mohammad was the Comforter or Holy Spirit of whom Jesus spoke when He said “I will send you the Comforter (The Holy Spirit) who will teach you all things. Muslims claim that Jesus was speaking about Mohammad. That would have to mean that Mohammad called himself to be god's prophet! That Jesus, a Jew would send a non-Jew to teach others is to my knowledge totally without any precedent in the Bible; and for me is totally unbelievable. And again, Mohammad recites a third incident as THE INITIAL calling in Sura 15:8 that angels called him! Then he changes this INITIAL CALLING again! In Sura 2:97 he recites that the angle Gabriel INITIALLY called him. Now that is four DIFFERENT INITIAL callings! Did someone tell me that the Quran was without error??????
Moreover, from my training in the biological sciences, including some medical training at Georgetown Medical School, I learned that history shows that Mohammad was an epileptic. This diagnosis reads on the confusion displayed by Mohammad discussed above. Common among epileptics are delusional experiences, including hearing and visual delusions. I have personally met such epileptic patients who described to me some of their delusions; and they were convinced what they saw and heard were real! I truly believe that Mohammad’s mind merely regurgitated what he had heard from various people he dealt with in his wife’s caravan business. Among the people whom he met were Jews, Christians (including heretical Christians) and those who recited the Arab mythology of that day. Indeed, history shows that Mohammad was suicidal because of his epilepsy and the accompanying delusions. He had been hearing voices from his youth; and the fact that Arab mythology taught that such people were possessed with evil spirits led him to seriously consider suicide. It was his wife, a woman 15 years his senior, who convinced him that the delusions had to be from god because he was too good a person to have evil spirits visit him.
Vasilis