Our church... too ethnic?

[Elizabeth Markovich]

Please Advise me! I attend a Greek Orthodox church. The founders of our church and the people in control put a high priority on preservation of Greek culture. It is to the point that they are a bit reluctant to let see new non-Greeks attend, and they definitely don't want a lot of effort on evalgelism. We don't do much community service, and most efforts go into a large festival. A couple of us are trying to start a project - free medical clinic. Our friend is also trying to encourage OCA to start a church here. Most people at our church would fear this would detract from the church. I do think that another church would provide more opportunity for possible converts to learn about Orthodoxy. As you may guess, I am a convert myself. what is right? are we undermining our church if we suuport this? Are we denying others the opportunity to find Orthodoxy if we do not?
Pray for me, a sinner

[Br Paul]

Dear Elizabeth,

There are many people out there in the world similar to you being a convert to Orthodoxy. I am a convert too, I am a Aussie and I attend a Russian Orthodox Church, the Church here does use some English which is great. It is difficult for non Russian speaking people to be attracted to the Church when none or very little English is used. I was blessed when I found this Church that uses English. Ethnicity in the Orthodox Church is a down side to it. What should be the number one priority is the preservation of the ORTHODOX FAITH not the culture of a certain country. This is why people think you have to be Russian, Greek etc. to be Orthodox. Orthodoxy is a Catholic faith- universal. I hope the OCA come to your area to give the opportunity for people to convert, well at least easier without the ethnic difficulties.

Lets all pray that the Ethnic tag connected to Orthodoxy goes and we are all just known as Orthodox- Orthodox Christians.

Br Paul

[Archbishop Constantin]

Dearly beloved sister in Christ, our God, Elizabeth Markovich;

This is what my late wife, myself and four other families did in 1973 in Delaware County, PA (suburban Philadelphia). We had not only the Greeks to worry about, but all the downtown Church priests went to the OCA Archbishop of Eastern PA, then Kiprian of blessed memory and complained that they would lose all their people "to the suburban Church". The bishop began trying to find a way out. We (the five of us, I was not ordained then) rebuttled and finally he consented to go along with it, but if there were less than ten people in Church, he said that he would excommunicate me. The following Sunday, after four weeks of Saturday ads in the newspapers, we had our first Liturgy. We had 117 people. Now the Mission is a full parish of the OCA, Saint Herman of Alaska, in Riddley Park, PA with a sizeable community, enough to support the clergy and meet their expenses. In 1983, shortly after I lost my Presbytera / Matushka / Khouriye, I was a priest by then under another jurisdiction, I was invited to be the keynote speaker at their 10th anniversary.

I say that Orthodoxy is for all and if what it takes is the formation of another Parish, then let it be so! I feel sorry for you, because we experienced the same treatment and I was the Greek in the family! It is terrible! They have no religious conscious! I told them once that they should stop frying hambergers for a few minutes and thank God in the language that made so prosperous!

Please, feel free to let me know if you need any help and I will see what can be done. Any Orthodox Jurisdiction will do fine, out of all the jurisdictions, (the OCA and the Antiochians are well suited for converts), as long as you are not looked upon as the outsiders and they use a language that you can understand. YOU MUST BEAR IN MIND THAT IT IS A GREAT DEAL OF REWARDING HARD WORK, DISAPPOINTMENTS, FIGHTS, HEARTACHES, BLOOD AND TEARS... BE PREPARED FOR IT! BUT THE REWARD IS WONDERFUL! DON'T EXPECT THAT YOUR PART-TIME PRIEST WILL DO ALL THE WORK! YOU HAVE TO GET THE BULL BY THE HORNS, PITCH IN! We are spoken for, dedicated to be Missionaries in Latin America, so we have no parishes in North America, but if I can help to grow another branch on the vineyard of the Lord, I will do it. Perhaps I could get you in touch with either one of the five, Mr. Anatoly Bredikin (I hope he is still there) or my own son Athanasius, for advice. My direct e-mail: <arzconst@rediffmail.com> (I hope it is not forbidden, if it is, I am sure that Dr. Steenberg will understand).

In Christ's Holy Name

+ Archbishop Constantin

[Effie Ganatsios]

Elizabeth, I have no experience of what you have written about but I do have an idea of why some Greek Orthodox might act this way.

Greeks in foreign countries see their church as sort of a "rallying point" in their effort not to lose touch with their heritage and culture. That's the reason so much emphasis is placed on purely cultural events. Converts bring "new blood" to the Orthodox Church but shouldn't feel the need to change everything at once in order to feel comfortable, especially if they have a evangelistic background.

If you feel unhappy in the church you have selected then perhaps you should follow Archbishop Constantin's advice. I think it's important to find an Orthodox Church that you feel comfortable in.

Archbishop Constantin : I didn't understand the following : "I say that Orthodoxy is for all and if what it takes is the formation of another Parish, then let it be so! I feel sorry for you, because we experienced the same treatment and I was the Greek in the family! It is terrible! They have no religious conscious! I told them once that they should stop frying hambergers for a few minutes and thank God in the language that made so prosperous! "

Who are the people who "have no religious conscious"?

Orthodoxy is for all - I agree with you. We have discussed this subject in the past and I found that converts were sometimes overly enthusiastic in their desire to change the church they had freely joined. They somehow wanted it to be more like the one they left....... Granted, many things can be improved - Elizabeth's idea of a free medical clinic is wonderful - but this constant need to change and adapt the Orthodox Church to conform to other churches is, in my opinion, something that needs to be thought about carefully.

The question of language : My opinion, based on my own experience, is that church services should be held both in the original language and in the language of the country they are being held in. This way none of the beauty is lost, while at the same time, people who don't know the original language are able to understand what is being said and are thus able to participate fully in the service.

Effie

[Fr Averky]

Dear friends,

Effie, I agree with you. We converts have to humble ourseves, for our Lord in His mercy led us to the True Church, and I have found from long experience as a convert myself, we have to be willing to "submerge" ourselves in an Orthodox culture, be it Greek, Russian or Serbian, for we live in a society which knows barely of the existence of Orthodoxy at all. I agree, it is sometimes very easy to feel like an "outsider," but as Effie says, we cannot barge in and expect for others to change for our sake. So far, there has not developed an American indigenous Orthodoxy, and I shudder to think what it would be, given our casual approach to virtually everything these days...

SWimply because the service might be served in a language we can understand does not mean we will be any closer to salvation, for no matter the language, we still have to struggle, and believe me, sometimes it is just better that you do not understand what is being said by others around you!

Whn we are standing in Church, our soul understands and takes to itself the spiritual beauty-the words, the Holy Icons, the candles, incense, the singing-all the five senses are involved in Orthodoxy worship. The most spiritual moments I have had were when I was first Orthodox: on Christmas day, the choir sang the Cherubic Hymn so tenderly and heartfully, and peacefully, when the bishop and clergy came out for the Great Entrance, almost everyone in the very large church was quietly weeping. I did not undertand the words, but I was touched to the depth of my soul. Now, I can serve in that language almost perfectly, but I have never had that experience again.

When we embrace Holy Orthodoxy, Jesus Christ should be the focus of our whole life. Anyone who has not been Orthodox for very long has before him learning the prayers, the orders of Services, the meaning of feasts, icons, and the variety of symbols to be found in actions in the Divine Services. We have so much to learn, and we should also be crying out to God to grant us virtues like patience, long-suffering, and the ability to sit and be quiet. If we were to study every day for the rest of our lives, we would still know but a fraction of all there is to be found in our beautiful Orthodoxy Faith.

Yes, it is good to want to help others, but we ourselves have to be strong spiritually in our own right before we try to help suffering souls. We have to understand that we ourselves are sick, and first need to be healed by the Divine Medicine- the Mysteries of Confession and the Holy Eucharist. Orthodoxy is the Living Body of Christ, and unlike Fr. Herman's idea of the late 80's, there are no "Independent Orthodox Workers." We need to be stable in our faith, our prayeer,our repentance, our belief, and in our own humble obedience to Christ and His Church before we will truly have anything to offer. We are One, and despite any lingual or cultural differences, Elizabeth, you are in fact, a member of the Greek Orthodox Church, and that is your spiritual home, and it has a rich heritage, for so much of what Orthodoxy has came from the Greeks Be likeMary, and seek "the one thing needful" by sitting and looking at the Lord, not busying yourself like Martha, with too many concerns.

I know of far too many people who were lost looking for the "perfect parish," or the "perfect priest" or the "perfect jurisdiction". May God grant you the love and patience to endure to the end. May God show mercy to all of us sinners!

In Christ,

Fr. A.

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Elizabeth,

About a week ago I started painting (writing) the icon of Saints Cyril & Methodios two Greek brothers (Equal to the Apostles) that were from Constantinople. Thanks be to God, for a Greek priest I just completed the icon of Saint Nectarios whose feast day is November 9th. (New calendar)

By the will of God, Cyril & Methodios brought the Orthodox faith to the slavs and compiled the Cyrillic alphabet in order to translate Liturgical Books and excerpts from the Holy Scriptures. Hence church Slavonic for us slavs. Saint Nectarios, well he taught us love and patience. Consequently, many of us slavs have a tremendous amount of love for our Greek friends and their rich culture, as I'm sure you do by your occupation & parish efforts. I knew a Priest who used to tell us when people had concerns for church growth "If you want your church to grow love one another." A quick 25 years latter I'm still working on that.

At this time, it might be easier to learn Greek than start a mission parish. Gods will is done.

In Christ,

Matthew

[Daniel Jeandet]

English is very good, but God also makes deaf people. Having no english Services to attend is a good reason to learn to pray on the inside. Its a waste of time trying to do things that God does not want done, or doesnt want you to do yet. If you are determined to hope in yourself, you will suffer. Mission is good when you have something to offer, but extremely bad and destructive if you havent got anything other than the merely human to give. Anxiety is always from satan, and disatisfaction is his gift as well. God is gentle in the way he teaches us isnt he? sometimes we prefer the hard way.

[Fr Averky]

Dear in Christ Elizabeth,

Read Daniel J's post, and read it again, for his words are very wise. Years ago when I was a novice, I felt dissatisfied with my life here in my monastery, so I visited another monastery which uses Greek, but mostly English. The services there are very impressive, and the chanting is really beautiful.

I had a long talk with the Abbot, explaining all that troubled me here. He told me that if I left my own place and sought another, soon enough, I would begin to find faults there, but different ones. He then said something to me that I have never forgotten: He said, "What is important is not the "place to be," but the "to be." Salvation is of the heart, and if we have not tried to humble ourselves, accepting that it was God's will to be where we are, then we will wander from place to place, never learning to be patient and struggle. The worst thing that can be said about such a person, is that he or she is "unstable." Many times when a person goes to another place, God permits that a person will come along to the new place and make everybody miserable. This happens to let us see that "perfection" can only be achieved by a broken and contrite heart.

If you do go to the OCA, then plan to stay there. But since you asked, I personally feel that you would gain more spiritually if you stay put, say your prayers, and concentrate on you and your spiritual growth. "Understanding" Divine Services goes way beyond understanding the language, for both in the Greek and Russian Churches, the language used in service is not the same as is spoken commonly. The two languages are capable of beautiful internal rhymes, which are totally lost in English. Even more important, one will not fully understand the words until his soul approaches them with humility, then God reveals to him the deep meanings of what he hears. For us, what we get out of services is a matter of attitude-if we spend the whole time upset by the language, we gain nothing. The purpose of going to church is to pray.

English being a language developed in the West, is lacking many of the words used to describe Orthodox spiritual concepts, so what we do hear in English translation is but a shadow of the spiritual reality which can be seen in the more ancient languages.

I have been listening to only Slavonic in Church going on thirty five years, and its beauty and majesty, and its ability to reach to the depth of my soul is now a part of me.

God help you Elizabeth, be patient, and don't think in negative terms-just think how blessed you are that you have found the True Faith, realizing that that is most important. Be patient, and if those around you seem not very serious about their Faith, remember that it is ingrained in them, and in their very private moments they approach God as a small child does his father. To those born into Orthodoxy, the relationship is familial, and they look at God not only with fear and awe, but also as One to whom ithey close, being able to speak to Him simply. One thing for sure, Othodox peoples are accustomed to much suffering and oppression-something of which we cannot imagine. I will be praying for you.

In our Saviour,

Fr.A.

[Nicholas Sakalarios]

Dear Elizabeth,
Even though I'm part Greek and have a Greek name I felt a little unwanted when I started attending the Greek Orthodox church in my area (I was raised a Protestant). I met a couple who had converted from Catholicism on my third or fourth visit and they told me, without hearing first how I felt, not to worry about how insular it was because in time the church accepted everybody, and once you were in, you were in. Sure enough, after a few months, more and more people have introduced themselves and become friendly. The more I get to know them, the less prominent the ethnic thing becomes. I don't know if your experience will be the same if you stay, but I wanted to let you know that there's definitely hope. I'll pray for you and your church.

[Fr Averky]

Dear All,

As this question about what a few consider to be the "evils of ethnicity" comes up a few times a year, for the first time I would like to say what has been in my heart on this subject for quite some time with the hopes of offending no one.

As I have mentioned "ad nauseum," I am a convert of 37 years, and have experienced every possible aspect of the new convert's introduction to making his way in an Orthodox parish. I have experienced what it is like to be considered a "foreigner" in my own country by those who cannot even speak English! I have also experienced the joy of acceptance by those same people when they saw that I was serious about my salvation and about being a faithful Orthodox Christian. It goes without saying that we Americans have produced more than our share of "flakes!"

First, we have to consider an important cultural difference between Americans and "ethnics" ( a really insulting word, if you think about it). We Americans have a tendency to be far too open when we meet people, having no problem relating our live's experiences after having known a new person for literally only minutes. Many is the time that women whom I had never met before told me all about their numerous divorces, and other distasteful details of their lives and those of their children and other reltives, but not with sorrow or shame, but with almost what can be described as enthusiasm!

About ten years ago, a priestmonk friend and I went for dinner at a rather fine restaurant. I knew the owner, because she was the land lady at the time of a good local friend of mine. As we waited for our first course to arrive, the owner came up and sat with us. Within a few minutes after having been introduced to Fr. T., she proceeded to tell us about her "woman's" health problems and her operation, which included some rather indelicate details. ( I was seriously afraid that she would offer to show us her incision!) She then went on to tell us that her daughter was living in Florida in a car parked on the street with her six year old son and was "working the streets" to support herself and her child! When she finally got up and left, Father was so shocked that he said had we not already ordered, he would leave that very moment! He said, "What is it with Americans that they have no shame in revealing the most perfectly awful things about themselves to absolute strangers? Really!" (See: The Jerry Springer Show)

While this is quite an extreme example, it serves to point out how shockingly familiar we Americans tend to be, and how we expect those of different cultural backgrounds to not only understand, but to willingly accept our behavior. We fail to take into consideration that those people of European or Eastern European backgrounds have a very personal or even private sense of family and themselves. So many nations have fixed rituals about introduction, receiving of guests, even saying goodbye. I recently read that in one African nation, it must take a minimum of three hours to say "goodbye," in which a departing guest must ask after the health of his host's parents, children, grandchildren cousins, and then onto his crops, how his cows, goats, and other farm animals are doing, and then start all over again. These people have commented upon how rude Americans and Europeans are because they say goodbye in a few words and then leave so abruptly. In South America, one American diplomat became very angry when he came to present his credentials to a high government official and had to wait for three days, the usual expected time before any foreign official is received. In Spain, one never goes to a home as a guest empty-handed; he must aleways have a gift of flower or wine, or some appropriate gift. This my mother taught me, and I fulfill that social obligation faithfully to this day. People like Russians have a tendency to be xenophobic, that is, they actually are rather "afraid" of foreigners, and it takes awhile for them to accept new people.

Russian have their own philosophy time, so if you invite them to a dinner pafty at 7:00, they will arrive at 8:30 or 9:00 but will still expect that all will be having another cup of tea at midnight. Then begins the Ritual of Departure. The guests stand up and say they really must be going. The hostess laments that they are "going so soon," even it is well past midnight. Everyone keeps talking and slowly moves toward the door. The guests put on their coats, but everyone keeps on talking. Finally, someone finds a new topic of discussion, so coats are removed, and everyone returns to the table for "one last cup of tea and some more dessert." Finally, about 2:30 or so, everyone, as if by signal, decides this time it really is time to leave. If it is Summer, then the conversation moves out to the porch for at least another half hour. Then, the host and hostess sadly walk their guest down to their cars and it takes at least another ten minites for people to get into their cars. After this, car windows are opened, and the final "Goodbyes" and "Thank yous"are expressed, and then very reluctantly the guests depart after many assurances that they will "get together soon." Thus, most Russians make sure that they do not have to get up early the next day. I remember that at one dinner, I counted 27 "cups of tea" before we departed for home at nearly 4:00 am!

When Russians do come to accept you, they can be overwhelmingly generous in time, attention and in the giving of gifts: they open their hearts and their homes to you, and you are treated like family. This I have seen not only among Russians, but all Orthodox people. Before I became a monk I was married for a few years, and not too long before our wedding in the Russian Orthodox cathedral, my intended told one of the old ladies that her Baptismal name was Anastasia. Well, that is all it took; the old woman's name was Anastasia, and as it turned out, it would soon be the feast of St. Anastasia. My wife to be was warmly invited to her modest apartment for lunch where she was fussed over by a lovely group of old Russian women who fed her nearly to death and showered her with lovely small gifts, some of them from Imperial Russia. From my long experience, in time in any "ethnic" parish, Orthodox parish, it becomes more important that you are truly a faithful Orthodox Christian rather than your what your national background might be.

At one time we had an African-American novice here in our monastery, and one summer he was asked to sell flowers for an hour or two at a Feast of the monastery. He laughingly related to me how two sweet and very polite old Russian women bought some flowers and one of them said to him. "We noticed that you are quite dark, could it be that you are from one of the more southern regions of Russia. like Georgia? The novice smiled and replied, "I am from Georgia, but from a city called Atlanta." He and the ladies had a chuckle, and he assured them he was not offended. The other lady said to him, "what matters to us is that you are an Orthodox Christian; God help you!" They gave him a nice "tip" and entered the church.

So many times we Americans desire the church to be a center for social action, but the first business we have to concern ourselves with is our own salvation. It is only when we ourselves are moving forward spiritually that we can truly help others. Too many people tend to hide behind "social action" and "social Justice," which only fosters pride and self love in that they think that they are doing so much "good" while neglecting their spiritual lives and many times their own family. I know one well-intended well-to-do woman who spends so much of her time doing "good," that she never cooks a meal, never spends much time with here husband and children and almost never visits her aging parents or in-laws because she is too busy doing good for everyone else. She is quite a wonderful person, but she has her priorities a little mixed up. One Christmas, she did not prepare a meal for her family because she and her young son were handing out meals at a local shelter for the homeless. I felt that she could have prepared a meal for the family on the days before the Holiday and then contributed a few hours for the poor so that she and her family could be together. As it turned out, she and her son ate at the homeless shelter and her husband and three daughters ate a dreary buffet at a local restaurant and the daughters later told me how empty the day had been for them.

My last thoughts concern those who complain how "foreign" and "exotic" Orthodoxy seems to be and that we need a more "American" or "Aussie" ( as my beloved Br. Paul says) expression of Orthodoxy. Now, what would we have as our "expression" of Orthodoxy? Would we we have the Divine services in a Southern drawl, a Brooklyn or Bostonian accent such as "The Lord be with you all, or The Lord be wit you? What kind of ethos would we need. In America, would we use church melodies built around Country Western music, Blue Grass, or traditional Negro Spirituals or in Australia a dingaradoo? To have a truly indigenous sound, we would have to use guitars, banjos and the fiddle. What would be proper attire, Western style levis and cowboy boots or something appropriate to the Outback? In place of a Greek festival, would we have a local parade, massive yard sale with coke, hamburgers and hot dogs followed by fire works? Again, this sounds extreme, but if we wanted to have a "pure" American form of Orthodoxy, upon what could we rely to form an appropriate kind of worship for ourselves? This is truly a challenge, and may God grant that in time there will be those who will be inspired to compose hymns with solemnity, beauty and piety which will become part of our local Orthodoxy. In England, Sir John Taverner has made an attempt, but for me, his work is strange to an Orthodox ear, and does not seem to be able to make any connection with traditional Orthodox Church music. Yet he is to be praised in that he has made such a sincere effort. Orthodoxy has such a long way to go in non-Orthodox countries, and for that fact alone, it is important for us to accept and adapt to the parish situations we find ourselves in and not try not to change things to suit us.

About five years ago I helped bring two former Episcopalians to the Church. As they prepared themselves, they were humble and obedient and contributed as much as they could to the life of what would be their new parish. Sadly, not long after their Baptism, they started to make all kinds of demands; they did not approve of the choir director, who was the priest's daughter, and demanded that she be removed. They chastized the priest and the parishioners for being "dead beats" when they did not buy the church building that they had found for them, and so on and so on.

In time, they voiced to me their disapproval of our Russian Church, this monastery, my priesthood and monasticism, left their parish, and for the next few years floated from Orthodox parish to parish, each time finding fault with something. They then decided to form their own "monastic community," but this soon fizzled out, and one of them after writing me a particularly insulting letter, went about seeking a bishop, or actually, anyone calling himself an "orthodox" bishop to ordain him. I only just found out that he died suddenly a few months ago, and I grieve that he never made an attempt to reconcile. We never know when God will call us to His judgement throne. The other one reconciled with me, but a few months ago wrote me about the humble, meek and spiritual priest he had found ( interesting, the priest has to be humble and meek, but not the faithful), and that he would not be contacting me again. May God be with him!

In Orthodoxy we converts have found a great treasure, and we must love, it , honor, it, guuard it, and be faithfukl to it, for God led us to His True Church out of His great mercy. Let us therefore, be glad to be where we are, and be evdr so thankful to those who in time welcome us to our spiritual home. And let us be grateul that they did not rush, but waited to see if we were really serious, for so many converts game with seemingly so much potential but in the end, wandered off and are no longer in the saving Fold of the Body of Christ.

Pascha is soon upon us, and let those of us who have been blessed to be grafted onto the True Vine rejoice as we lift our voices in affirming that Christ our God is truly risen from the dead, opening the gates of heaven to us. Let us be glad and truly grateful to those who have given us a home, have taken us poor wandering strangers out of the cold world in which we lived and offering the warm hospitality of their hearts. Let us meekly offer gratitude to them for the suffering that so many of them endured through wars and civil wars, persecution and the loss of everything they possesed and especially the loss of their Motherland from which so many of them were forced to flee never to return. Let us honor them for their having preserved such a precious treasure-our glorious Orthodoxy which they brought with them- the Light which is Christ and his Holy Church. May He richly bless all of of as the Feast of Feasts approaches!

With love in our Christ,

hieromonk Averky
Least among monks