Hymn for the Theotokos 'Agios Estin'

[Mina Demian]

Peace to all.

This is my first post on these message boards. A quick introduction: my name is Mina Demian and am a Egyptian (Coptic) Orthodox reader. I am learning New Testament Greek and am loving it. Actually, I love all things Greek!

My question is as follows. In the Coptic Church, we observe a two-week fast, usually in August, for the Theotokos. It is part of our liturgical services during this fast to chant the Glorification Rite. This rite contains many hymns which are purely Koine Greek, but transcribed into Coptic.

Recently, it was discussed on a Coptic hymns site (coptichymns.net) that the hymn "Agios Estin" contains many theological errors. It is said that this hymn was borrowed from the Greek Orthodox Church in the early 19th century by travelling cantors of the Coptic Church.

I'd like to know if there is indeed a hymn with such a name and if someone could either direct me or provide with the original Greek text. I'm very interested to see the text for what it is and then compare it to what we currently chant in the church. My strong feeling is either the person who transcribed the hymn into Coptic did not know enough Greek and made many errors. Or, the translation we have of it (in Arabic) was done by someone who didn't know enough Greek.

I'd appreciate any help or answers.

In Christ,

mina.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Mina,

Welcome to the discussion community. It is good to have you here.

Your first post was about the hymn known as the 'Axion estin' ('It is meet...'). To start with, the text of the hymn which you requested to see is, in English translation, as follows:

"It is truly meet to bless thee O Theotokos, ever blessed and most pure, and the Mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and incomparably more glorious than the Seraphim, who without corruption didst bring forth God the Word, and art indeed Mother of God (Theotokos), thee do we magnify."

The history of the hymn's use comes from an Athonite tradition that, on the eleventh of June (now the date of the feast of the revelation of the hymn), in the year AD 980, the Archangel Gabriel appeared to a novice on the Holy Mountain as a stranger, and when the time came to chant the usual hymn to the Mother of God, this stranger interrupted and said a new hymn should be sung in her honour. He then sang this new hymn, beginning 'It is meet...', as translated above.

The Axion Estin is a crucially important hymn to the Chalcedonian Orthodox Churches, figuring in the usual Liturgical celebration after the consecration of the gifts as the capital moment of the commemorations.

I would be extremely interested to know what the 'serious theological errors' are, which your associates on another forum indicate are present in the hymn. My thought is that it likely has something to do with the repeated emphasis on Mary as theotokos, but would be interested to knwo what their own criticisms are.

INXC, Matthew

[sotirmou]

Matthew,

Thanks a lot for your reply. Hmmm.. looking at the translation, this is not the hymn I meant! I must have not been clear enough or maybe it goes by a different name in the Greek/Eastern Orthodox Church(es).

Here is the Coptic/Greek text of the hymn. Please remember that I am posting a Coptic transcription (which is most probably faulty and contains hybrid words), but I will try to make it as 'Greek' as possible. I will first post the text as it is, Greekifying it where necessary. I am not too versed in the transileration standard for Greek into English, so I'll use phonetic representations where I don't know the right syntax. lol


O Kirioc Meta cou

Agioc Ectin: O Patir `eouboithin: thepenthebio: genoc `ndoxin: tou pneuma tou agiou

Dikeoc ectin: O Patir `eouboithin: thepenthebio:
zoeen `n`epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Eepanoc ectin: O Patir theecaourin: thepenthebio:
Icouc `nepouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Kirioc ectin: O Patir laleoucin: thepenthebio:
matouc `nepouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Nimioc ectin: O Patir ksaleucin: thepenthebio:
Ontwc `netouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Pimenoc ectin: O Patir raraucin: thepenthebio: Ctavroc `nepouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Timioc ectin: O Patir eemonphin: thepenthebio:
Phwsteer `nepouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Xere ectin ectin: O Patir Psaleucin: thepenthebio:
Ontwc `nepouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

============

Now for my own comments, explanations, and corrections to the text. I include this because in the past, many have shown this text - as it is - to Koine Greek scholars and the unanimous decision was it made no sense. lol But I want to solve this mystery. I need your help though!

Notes:

1) There is a lot of mixing of Coptic words and grammar rules. The prevalent example is the " `n" prefix to a lot of words. In Coptic, this prefix is added to turn a noun into an adjective. So, for example, "pimanna `nkatharos" in Coptic means the pure manna. So, first Greekification step will be to strip the text of the "`n" prefixes. This is the result.

O Kirioc Meta cou

Agioc Ectin: O Patir eouboithin: thepenthebio: genoc doxin: tou pneuma tou agiou

Dikeoc ectin: O Patir eouboithin: thepenthebio:
zoeen `epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Eepanoc ectin: O Patir theecaourin: thepenthebio:
Icouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Kirioc ectin: O Patir laleoucin: thepenthebio:
Matouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Nimioc ectin: O Patir ksaleucin: thepenthebio:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Pimenoc ectin: O Patir raraucin: thepenthebio:
Ctavroc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Timioc ectin: O Patir eemonphin: thepenthebio:
Phwsteer epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Xere ectin ectin: O Patir Psaleucin: thepenthebio:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

2) A lot of the controversy raised up in the Coptichymns.net thread revolved around the recurring word "thepenthebio". here is the link to the discussion - http://www.coptichymns.net/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=1862&highlight=. The issue was raised by Dr. George Ghaly, a learned expert in the Coptic language. I won't repeat what he said in his post, but I will offer my own explanation here.

I think there has been a scribal error with this word. I strongly believe it should be "de penthebio". De is a common loan word in Coptic from Greek and I remember Matthew telling me it means 'truly' or like a word that affirms something. So, let's do Greekification step two and modify the text.

O Kirioc Meta cou

Agioc Ectin: O Patir eouboithin: de penthebio:
Genoc doxin: tou pneuma tou agiou

Dikeoc ectin: O Patir eouboithin: de penthebio:
zoeen `epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Eepanoc ectin: O Patir theecaourin: de penthebio:
Icouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Kirioc ectin: O Patir laleoucin: de penthebio:
Matouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Nimioc ectin: O Patir ksaleucin: de penthebio:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Pimenoc ectin: O Patir raraucin: de penthebio:
Ctavroc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Timioc ectin: O Patir eemonphin: de penthebio:
Phwsteer epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Xere ectin ectin: O Patir Psaleucin: de penthebio:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

3) Right, now we just have the word "penthebio". This is a straight up Coptic word meaning "our lowliness" or "our humility". Could someone offer the Koine Greek alternative? The one I found in Strong's Concordance is "tapeinophrosune". Just for now until I get a proper answer, *I think* our humility would be "tapeinophrosunemen". Please please, correct me if I'm wrong! Greekification step 3 applied we get this result.

O Kirioc Meta cou

Agioc Ectin: O Patir eouboithin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Genoc doxin: tou pneuma tou agiou

Dikeoc ectin: O Patir eouboithin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
zoeen `epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Eepanoc ectin: O Patir theecaourin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Icouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Kirioc ectin: O Patir laleoucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Matouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Nimioc ectin: O Patir ksaleucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Pimenoc ectin: O Patir raraucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ctavroc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Timioc ectin: O Patir eemonphin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Phwsteer epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Xere ectin ectin: O Patir Psaleucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

4) One more problem remains. "eouboithin". This seems to be another scribal concoction of Greek and Coptic. "ouboithin" in Coptic means "a help or a support". Makes no sense in Coptic. The prefix "ou" is an indefinite article to denote one, a, or an. So let's take this out and just keep the floating "e" in the beginning. Greekification step four applied we get this result.

O Kirioc Meta cou

Agioc Ectin: O Patir eboithin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Genoc doxin: tou pneuma tou agiou

Dikeoc ectin: O Patir eboithin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
zoeen `epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Eepanoc ectin: O Patir theecaourin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Icouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Kirioc ectin: O Patir laleoucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Matouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Nimioc ectin: O Patir ksaleucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Pimenoc ectin: O Patir raraucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ctavroc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Timioc ectin: O Patir eemonphin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Phwsteer epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Xere ectin ectin: O Patir Psaleucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

5) Last modification is a minor one. I don't understand the double verb in the last verse. Do you get double verbs in Greek? Here is the result.

O Kirioc Meta cou

Agioc Ectin: O Patir eboithin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Genoc doxin: tou pneuma tou agiou

Dikeoc ectin: O Patir eboithin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
zoeen `epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Eepanoc ectin: O Patir theecaourin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Icouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Kirioc ectin: O Patir laleoucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Matouc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Nimioc ectin: O Patir ksaleucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Pimenoc ectin: O Patir raraucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ctavroc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Timioc ectin: O Patir eemonphin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Phwsteer epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

Xere ectin: O Patir Psaleucin: de tapeinophrosunemen:
Ontwc epouranion: tou pneuma tou agiou

==============

Right, this is about as Greek as this will get! Now, does any of this make any sense? My main aim is to really correct this text and make it understandable so when I chant it next, I'm actually chanting real words.

I appreciate and welcome comments on:

1) Any of my "modifications" to the text
2) Anything in the text in its original form
3) Anything in the text in its "final" form (grammar, style)

Hopefully we can resolve this together. I apologize for the dissertation length of this post. I have a feeling after *all* this typing that the text might not be readable. To aid us, I will type it up using a Greek font and upload it.

In Christ,

Mina.

(Message edited by matthew on 02 September, 2004)

[sotirmou]

Peace,

I have written a document putting all the texts posted previously and applied the SPIonic font to them. It is a MS Word document. I have attached it in case my own transilliteration is of no use. I am not too sure with much of the spelling, but hopefully most words will be recognizable.

In Christ,

Mina.

[sotirmou]

Peace to all,

I haven't heard back from anyone in a few days. I am still wondering if anyone can help me with this question.

In Christ,

Mina.

[Charalambos Andrew Geo]

I canno say much but i can suggest that prayer to the Saints and His All Pure Mother and to God may help here,
God be with you and the Saints and ranks of Angels and all persons who have found favour with the Lord of the whole of Adam, pray for you and help you,
Love in Christ
Charalambos

[Michael Szelog]

O Kyrios meta sou,

I'm new to this forum, but am familiar with the text Sotirmou is trying to figure out.

By way of quick introduction, my name is Mike and I reside in Manchester, New Hampshire - USA.

Though I work at a local bank here, my degree is in Linguistics and I enjoy looking at old languages and texts.

Though I'm familiar with the Coptic aspects of the hymn described above, the Greek is not making too much sense to me. Perhaps it's my limited knowledge of proper Greek grammar, but it seems that one of the most notable things is that many of the words are not, or don't appear to be, in the correct grammatical forms.

For example, the last part of each verse has:

tou pneuma to agiou

This looks as if it's a straightforward genitive construction, but I'm a bit confused about the word (or form of the word) "pneuma" here; shouldn't it be "pneumatos" (the genitive form) rather than the nominative "pneuma"??!!

Also in one of the lines, there's the form "basileusin" - can someone clarify this form?

regarding the forms preceded by "e" as in e-ou-voithin (with voithin = help/aid).

As Sotirmou explained, the 'ou' her is the Coptic indefinite article which in this case, could be translated as "some", so "some help/aid", but the 'e' is throwing me off - it could very well be the Coptic marker of the Accusative case, but this form is generally found after verbs denoting perception (to hear, for example).

It looks to be an attempt to use both Greek and Coptic case markers to get the word "voitheia" into the Accusative case. - Just a guess on my part.

Again, anyone with better knowledge of New Testement Greek who can shed some light on some of these grammatical forms - it would be much appreciated!!

Thanks,

Mike S

[sotirmou]

Irini.

Just as an update, I thank Charalambos for his prayers and all those who have responded.

By grace of God and Mike's tireless help, we're getting very close to a completely understandable text! We thank the Lord.

I'm wondering if anyone could direct me to an on-line version of the Greek Orthodox Psalter or part of Byzantine hymnology that has a lot of Marian glorification hymns? I'd still like to know if this Coptic hymn is indeed borrowed from the Byzantine tradition. Also, at the moment, I can't afford to buy the Psalter.

I'd appreciate any help. Thank you.

In Christ,

Mina.

[Michael Szelog]

Hello all,

A quick question -

Is there a particular "name" for a Greek verse which is four lines long (like a quatrain) with eight syllables in each line? - you know, something like "iambic pentameter", or something like that.

Just trying to figure out if the author of this hymn was trying to reproduce a classical meter or rhyme.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Mike S

[sotirmou]

Hello all,

We have managed to arrive at a Greek text that is both grammatically and dogmatically sound. I'd appreciate anyone's contribution of an English translation. Please find the document attached.

In Christ,

Mina.

[sotirmou]

In case you may not have the font for the previously posted font, please find it attached.