Initial texts on Orthodoxy

[Ann.]

Hi brothers and sisters!

Wow! It seems to be a very friendly forum! How to start it?
I am a Catholic and I am interested in the Orthodox religion. But there is so much to read! Honestly, if I would be in a library of two millions of book I would feel the same. Would you have any hints where to begin? What do you like most of your faith? What are the hidden treasures any treasures) you would like to share?
I thank you for your answer, that'll be very nice.
You know last week was the week of unity? Let Christians share their faith in Christ! May we share our treasures.

God-Love,
Annick
ps I love the prayer from the heart, the Jesus prayer!

[OrthodoxLearner]

Nice to have you. I too am a former Catholic, specifcally a Byzantine Catholic (Eastern-Rite) and am in the process of Converting to Holy Orthodoxy. I was just made a Catechumen today!

What do I like most about Orthodoxy?

What I like is, Orthodoxy has kept the purest form of Christianity as handed down by Christ, The Apostles, & The Church Fathers, and have not added or change any doctrines or church beliefs that werent laid down by the early church.

YES, there are tons of books on Orthodoxy to read, I have just finsished 5 books on different aspects of Holy Orthodoxy. Nice to have you in the forum.

IN Christ
Daniel/OL

[Anastasia Theodoridis]

Hi, Annick,

(What a pretty and unusual name!)

Reading suggestions? Hmm. An Orthodox prayer book is at the top of my list. "The Orthodox Way" by Bishop Kallistos (Ware) is a good introduction to Orthodox spirituality. "The Philokalia" (pronounced "Fee-lo-ka-LEE-ya") is some of our most important spiritual reading; it was compiled by two saints. I'm particularly fond of Volume IV of a book called "Evergetinos".

All these can be found at online an Orthodox publishing house such as Light and Life or Eighth Day or St. Vladimir's Seminary Press.

Hidden treasures? To be discovered gradually by attending services, particularly the Divine Liturgy. (Unfortunately, you cannot receive the Holy Communion, but at the end, you can receive some bread that has been blessed.

This is my first post to the group; I hope I've done it correctly and hope you will find it useful, Annik.

Anastasia

[Fr Averky]

Dear Ann,

I would suggest you purchase a book called "Introducing the Orthodox Church" by Father Coniaris, (Light and Life) which as been used for Catechetics in the Greek Orthodox Church in America The classic "first book" for those interested in Orthodoxy is "The Orthodox Church" by Timothy Ware,(now bishop Kallistos), although I suggest you go to a library or used book store and obtain an earlier edition, for trhe latest one marks a certain change of some views of Orthodox discipline on the part of the good bishop. The section on Church histroy is especially helpful

I lovingly suggest that you do not start with "The Way of the Pilgrim," a very popular book, for the Pilgrim speaks of reading the Philokalia and saying the Jesus Prayer, but it must be kept in mind that this small book was written in the 19th century in Orthodox Russia, and this man ( now thought to actually have been a monk) was part of a society which lived and breathed Orthodoxy. and did not have to struggle amidst the kind of pluralistic society such we as do today.

Because of this, dear Ann, it would not be advisable at this time to endeavor to
read the Philokalia or especially to say the Jesus Prayer on your own for it should be done under the guidance of a priest or better yet, a monk of many years. Although similar in form to the Rosary, and while also having a counting system using beads or knots, it is in fact quite different. Piously say your rosary, and it will please the blessed Virgin Mary and her Divine Son.

As a monk and a priest, I believe that it is a good idea for non-Orthodox or even new converts to Orthodox not to say the Jesus Prayer. Even monastics can only say the prayer audibly,and not silently, and for good reason.

If you can access our archives, you will find several threads on the Jesus Prayer, and on the present thread concerning the spiritual head of the Orthodox Church to go to Cuba, you will find a lively discussion concerning the reading of Orthodox spiritual books. Briefly, I have been pointing out that Orthodoxy is not something a person can ever understand just by reading but can best come to know it in time in his heart. Many people who have vistred us have read lots of books on Orthodxy, and then feel that they "know" it. well. However, I see that you have a good heart and I warmly welcome you to look into the Orthodox Church.

As with others who wish to have a better understanding of Orthodoxy, I have had much success over the years by telling interested folk to read the lives of mthe saints, for they represent in every possible way what it means to "Worship Rightly," or to be Orthodox.

While the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church constitute what in the early centuries was the Church, because of our sins, we have been divided since 1054. Othodoxy is not a religion, but a Church,and Christianity is our common religion.

Light and Life Publishers Minneapolis, Holy Cross Bookstore in Brookline, Mass, St. Vladimir's Seminary Bookstore, in Tuckahoe, NY, and my monastery, Holy Trinity Monastery Bookstore in Jordanville, NY will happily supply you with paper catalogues. Light and Life is also online.


Ann, at this point, reading theological or spiritual books might not be to your benefit, although either Fr. Raphael or I and many members could give you a suggested reading list that would not be too heavy for you, especially writings of recent saints. I pray that God will give it to you to see the real beauty of Holy Orthodoxy with all the richness of its spiritual heritage. Approach this with fear of God and humility and He will open many things to you. There are many people on this forum who will be more than happy to help you. God bless and keep you!

In Christ,

Father Averky

[Annick T.]

Dear All in Christ,

I want to thank you very much.

Dear Anastasia,

I was really happy to read your post. Whenever I am able and ready to do so I'll read those books and go to the Divine Liturgy. Honestly, I was afraid to go to one Orthodox Church. I knew from one Orthodox friend living in Romania that there is some rites... and she told me about some very beautiful things. I am happy I can receive a blessed bread. I feel there is place for me now. If I would have no possibility to receive Jesus however, I would cry all the tears I can (in any Church). I am now decided to go to the Divine Liturgy and read some books. Thanks.
Dear sister in Christ, sharing what God has given us is good. You have done that with this first post.

Dear Daniel,

I don't know this part of the Catholic Church. From what I saw, I love the Orthodox Church but I love the Catholic Church too. I think search of God and serving Him is very good. You found God in the Orthodox Church, then you searched Him! I thank you for your post. I know the two Churches have some differences and I may well learn from the traditional... texts, etc. of Orthodoxy.

Dear Father Averky

My first impression was about being careful about our prayers and readings. I learnt something after my conversion. I was just a little baby learning to walk and then I wanted to imitate the athletes clinbing a montain. I hurted me on this path. So I'll try to be careful.
I'll try to follow your advices.
I was intrigued by the Jesus' prayer. I know the Rosary and this prayer is different. Sometimes Catholics say the Rosary in 15 minutes (that means non stop and lip service)!! But I think that's not the right way to say it. The Rosary like the Jesus' prayer should be said with the heart. I'll try to be careful while I pray the Jesus' prayer (during my life).

I'll also try to see what Orthodox is (not just reading). Visiting one Orthodox country is on my schedule ;). If I do not breath Orthodoxy, I'll at least breath God!!!

Lastly, I would say that this seperation (schism, I think) makes me really sad. Like the Holy Father (Pope John Paul II) said there is two lungs to the Church... I hope unity will soon come. If we could share one cup and share the same date of Easter!! At first sight, we may seem different but are so alike, like a brother and a sister! Why this seperation? We have the same purpose... Though I don't know you a lot, dear Orthodoxes, I would gladly give my blood so that unity may come. Jesus would be so happy! Couldn't we just do it for Jesus?

Thanks again!

Love,
Annick

ps I want to make my little unity efforts. I want to invite one Orthodox to my school (Catholic school).

[Gilbert Gandenberger]

I have been following various threads for a month or so, and beginning to venture forth to participate. Please let me know if I am violating any group customs, I certainly don't want to offend!

I have been very blessed by a book by Father (and now Saint, as I understand!) John of Kronstadt, called "Spiritual Counsels". This is excerpts from his "My Life in Christ". Very accessible, very theologically sound. Was very helpful & consoling to me when my bishop suggested I read it when I had several dear friends pass away within a fairly short period of time. Published by St. Vladimir's; I found it on Amazon.com.

[Fr Averky]

Dear Annick,

it is easy to see that you are a kind, sincere and good hearted person, and so the idea of Christian unity is very appealing to you.

If only it could be so easy for the differences between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism, many of which date from before the schism of 1054,to be dissolved with good will and prayerful negotiations.

Not wanting to offend your good heart, I will not go into long details about our marked differences.
As we know, the Christian Church for the first ten centuries was One, the Pope was the Patriarch of thd West, and in the East were the ancient Patriarchates. As Europe began to form itself into strong national states after the ruin of the Dark Ages, the pope became increasingly powerful, and in time, a ruler of vast estates, so now he had two kingdoms to be concern with: the heavenly and his own.

As thes popes became more powerful, they began to claim that the pope is the Vicar of Christ on earth, while the Churches in the East from antiquity maintained the original teaching, which Rome had also followed, that the Church is ruled by councils of bishops who are all equal at such a time, and that Christ is the head of His Church.
The split came after Spanish bishops in teh 9th century adde a word to the original Creed- "filoque," which means, "and from the Son," changing the entire relationship of the Holy Trinity, for the original reads, "And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father and who with the Son is equally worshipped and glorified." Christ Himself said, "I will send to you the Comforter who proceeds from ghe Father.
Church added more teachings which the Orthodox Church has never accepted: Purgatory, indulgences, then the Immaculate Conception and Papal infallability.

Because of these addition, the Roman Catrholic Church and the Orthodox have have grown farther and farther apart. With the massive reforms of Vatican II, almost everything we had still shared in commonn longer is so. We had similarities in service, a similar veneration for the Mother of God and the saints, a shared view on the place of the bishop in the Church, and a rich and ancient monastic tradition. All that has changed now.

I am sorry, but the statement that our two Churches are "two lungs of one body," sounds so very nice, but is not true. For it to be true, we would have to be of one heart and of mind, which we are not. One major difference alone is enough
to not permit serious discussions about unity, and that is the Papacy.

When priests serve mass or liturgy together, they do because they are "serving at the same altar." This mean that they are completely of one mind in the teachings of their Church. Sadly, our two Churches do not have sacramental unity, and our priests are peermitted to give communion to Orthodox Christians.

But do not be sad or discouraged. Live your life as a devout Catholic, attending Mass as often as possible,saying your prayers, going to confession and communion, and having personal devotions like the Rosary, for it is important to come to know and love the Mother of God.

I suggest that you read the New Testament every day, and read the lives of saints, for they are examples of the Christian life for us.

I am sure that I can speak for members of Monachos when I tell you that you are most welcome loving attitude. If all of us could be like that, many of the problems which keep us apart would be so much easier to deal with.


I pray that one day you will attend an Orthodox Chirch and parrticipate in its anciejnt beauty. In fact, you will be given a good idea what the Catholic Church's beautiful Latin High Masses were like, rich with many candles on the altar, beautiful vestments, the pleasant sweetness of incense, glorious singing, and all done with pious solemnity. Orthodoxy still has such services; you step out of the darkness of the world we now live in, and step into Heaven. God bless you.

Father Averky

[Annick T.]

Dear Father Averky,

I thank you for your post. I better understand the point of view of Orthodoxy on unity. I'll try to follow your advices, once again. Thank you a lot for them.
As a young catholic, I never went to a mass before Vatican II. My lack of knowledge on this subject is very sad. I would only like to say that the masses kept the same elements you mentionned (at various degrees and except there is music but I feel it is not bad). The spirit is the same (from what I know). Ah the (Holy) Spirit is surely the same, lol! It is the priests or the community that decide mostly. I went to very beautiful masses, with the aspects you said, I really loved it. It is like if we would give a real feast for the Lord. But simple masses can also be ardent and help concentrate on the Eucharist, the reason why we come together each Sunday (or so).
...As a Christians, we should try to understand each others.
I still believe that we can can at least (and most importantly) be united in heart. We shouldn't make one "exchange of truth" but rather unite because we believe in the one Lord. And if one did one error, then let us repent. I think the Pope already did that.

I don't know it is okay but I'll paste here two parts of articles found on www.zenit.org (http://www.zenit.org)
It is possible there to find other documents/informations about unity that are very good.

Ecumenism Linked to Personal Conversion
Cardinal Kasper Helps Mark End of Christian-Unity Week
ROME, JAN. 26, 2004 (Zenit.org).-

"Ecumenism encourages us to self-criticism," the cardinal said, echoing the words of John Paul II. "It also has the function of an examination of conscience and it should be an exhortation to ask for forgiveness."

Thanks to the "Spirit infused by Christ, in the last decades we have achieved great progress," he said. "We no longer take recourse to reciprocal expressions of hatred or ridicule. A new spirit of brotherhood has developed. We live, work and pray together. We have become friends."

Second article:

Christian Unity an Imperative, Says John Paul II
Calls It a "Demanding Priority" of His Ministry
VATICAN CITY, JAN. 25, 2004 (Zenit.org).- The quest for the full unity of Christians is an "imperative," John Paul II said as he urged the overcoming of "closed-heartedness."

"The unity of Christians has been a constant desire of my pontificate and it continues to be a demanding priority of my ministry," the Pope said. "Let us never lessen our commitment to pray for unity and to seek it incessantly."

"Obstacles, difficulties, and even misunderstandings and failures, cannot and must not discourage us," he said. "Confidence in reaching, also in history, the full and visible communion of Christians rests not on our human capacities, but on the prayer of our common Lord."

May God's blessings fall on us like rain! May we unite!

Love,
Annick

[Charalambos Andrew Geo]

i do not know how common it is but there are quite a number of orthodox who have a spiritual adivisor, they are people who have confessions face to face with people and give advice and spiritual direction to people and show love and trust, i do not know how this tradition is in the catholic church, it is good to have someone to trust with anything and everything where they can guide your soul onto the way to eternal life, about going about having one i could not tell you, my advice is to listen to fr Averky and if your interested in this aspect of it then ask more and pray about it, prayer is the most important part of it and the actions will God willing follow suit. I pray that the other members may correct anything i have said,
With love in Christ
have a blessed pasha
Charalambos

[Annick T.]

Dear Charalambos,

Thanks for your post. There was many people on my way that suggested and even prayed so that I have a spiritual director. One of them was a roman Catholic priest. You see, it is common for us all! Thanks for remembering me about that: I will pray for this.
The Holy Spirit surely inspired you...
I'll read again what Father Averky wrote with a new strong desire to do the Will of God.

May God bless us all! May we live in humility and love!

Love,
Annick
ps. I thought for few seconds to have one Orthodox spiritual advisor, then thought it impossible and foolish (I don't even know one Orthodox in flesh). If it is God's Will, I'll have a saint: not a Catholic, not one Orthodox, just one man or woman of God. I hope I am clear but maybe I am not... When we are saint, in the full communion of saints, we are all... in God, so... it doesn't matter if we are Catholic or Orthodox. But well... lol! If I could have both! I console myself for now with Jesus-Christ.

[Eva K]

Dear Mr Averky,

I am really glad to meet orthodox people on the net or those who like them. I am Roman Catholic but I have got an ortodox friend. So I read your discussion with Annick with pleasure. I read all the books you mentioned except for Life anf Light but I do not know whether it has a Hungarian version (as I am from this small country). I would like to ask why you do not advise to pray the Jesus prayer. What are its dangers?

All the best,
Eve

[Eva K]

I would like you to offer me books about orthodoxy.

[Craig Goodwin]

Dear Eva,

I'm currently living in Romania and am Orthodox. Maybe I can assist = you in some reading material. The Romanian Orthodox Church has an = Archdiocese in Hungary and maybe they have some material in Hungarian.

In Christ,

[Irene]

Dear Eva

I did not know who you were talking to. Mr Averky? I have never heard anyone call a Monk or a Priest Mr before. Upon checking this thread I realised you are talking to the monk Father Averky, he reposed (died) in the first half of last year.

Irene

[Eva K]

Dear Everyone,

Thanks very much for the threads you sent. I am sorry that I addressed one to Father Averky who is not living in the Earth but rather beside God.

Dear Craig,

Thanks for your help.
How can I get to Hungarian material?

Anyway, I have got an Orthodox friend in Hungary who does not speak English 'just' Russian and Czech. He is interested in this site because I told him it is a valuable, many-sided source of orthodox writings and many more. Can you tell whether I can find material in Czech or russian here? (He was very glad about the Greek Resources because he learns Greek. )

[Eva K]

Dear Everyone,

Thanks very much for the threads you sent. I am sorry that I addressed one to Father Averky who is not living in the Earth but rather beside God.

Dear Craig,

Thanks for your help.
How can I get to Hungarian material?

Anyway, I have got an Orthodox friend in Hungary who does not speak English 'just' Russian and Czech. He is interested in this site because I told him it is a valuable, many-sided source of orthodox writings and many more. Can you tell whether I can find material in Czech or russian here? (He was very glad about the Greek Resources because he learns Greek. )

[Reader M.]

Dear Eva K,

Orthodox Materials in Hungarian, one possible site:

http://magyarorthodoxia.org/

[Eugene]

Dear Eva,

There is a lot of meaterials for reading on Jesus prayer and spiritual life in Russian and English on this website:
http://www.hesychasm.ru/

[Irene]

That's alright Eva you could not help that. I just thought you might wonder why Father never answered you. http://www.monachos.net/mb/clipart/happy.gif

Irene

[Eva K]

Dear Friends,

who answered me. Thank you very much for your kind help. As for Hungarian material I need titles of books because I do not like reading on the screen. My friend works for the magyarorthodoxia.org next to their own site: www.szimandron.hu (http://www.szimandron.hu) He knows quite much about the Hungarian material available on the net so he rather needs other sources than Hungarian. Evgeny, thanks very much for the site you mentioned.

[Eugene]

Oh, and there are a few other wonderful Orthodox libraries in Russian on the net:
http://www.pagez.ru/
http://pravbeseda.org/library/index.php
http://www.wco.ru/biblio/

[Craig Goodwin]

Dear Eva, There is a newly formed Orthodox Youth Organization that has = the backing of the Greek, Russian, Serbian and Romanian Patriarchete's. = The contact persons are: Zita Bardos,zitinko@freemail.hu , Iren Kaulics, = kaulicsi@freemail.hu and Budai Rita, riten@freestart.hu I'm sure if = you contact one of these people they will be able to lead you to some = Orthodox materials in Hungarian.=20

In Christ,

Craig

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Eva,

You could do a search in this forum, use the search window, if my memory serves me correctly Father Averky had addressed the question on the Jesus Prayer quite a bit. I think the thread was under the title The Jesus Prayer. Perhaps others remember the thread better than I do.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin