How to interpret scripture

[Ken McRae]

"Simply put, to become a true monastic, there is an underlying theme, as it were - never, never, never follow your own idea, conception, understanding etc, of how things could be, should be, ought to be." (fr. Seraphim - Post #14 @ http://www.monachos.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2610 )

hello ~ to all the friends of God ~ forgive me for another tangent but I've been pondering a little the meaning of the above principle and its practical application. First thing I'd like to determine is how it should rule or govern the way one approaches the reading and study of Scripture. Would it, for example, forbid a person from attempting to intertpret Scripture, or hold an opinion on the meaning of any passage not already clearly or definitively explained by the Fathers? All comments are welcome.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Nobody is FORBIDDING anything here. We are advised to trust the Church more than we trust ourselves. We are encouraged to attain the "mind" of the Fathers before we attempt to become "Fathers". Discernment counts. As does concilliarity. The Fathers of the Church are not simply scholars or prominent speakers. They literally "walked the talk". When we have attained the spiritual heights they have, when we have experienced Christ, then we too, can "interpret" Scripture. HOWEVER, if our "interpretation" is very different from others in the Church, are we ready to acknowledge that perhaps, we might be WRONG in that interpretation? Have we mastered the sum of the accumulated knowledge of the Fathers such that we KNOW which passages have not already been commented on?

There are plenty of pious opinions out there within the Church. Even saints don't always agree on everything and Orthodoxy has no problem with that. HOWEVER, the danger of prelest is so very real that even saints have been led astray at times. Go ahead, take a position, we all have opinions, but if it differs greatly from the teachings of the Church, you might really want to re-examine that position. Never "trust" your opinion, but always do a "data-check" to see if it conforms to the consensus of the Church. If not, then at least keep it to yourself. If you are wrong and lead others astray by it, you will answer for it eventually. Bishops have different opinions, but they only preach that which has been AGREED TO by the Church.

As an engineer, if my analysis differs greatly from others with the same data, I at least re-examine my analysis before I go off tell the others they are wrong. And if more of them disagree with me than agree, I had better make darn sure my data and analysis is correct. Sometimes it isn't.

Bottom line: a single person can easily be wrong and 2000 years of God-inspired revelation is much less likely to be wrong. One question to ask: am I so far down the spiritual path that my opinion even matters? If the answer is "yes" then the first thing to do is a PRELEST CHECK. Then look for corroboration.

[James Aubuchon]

I think there are a number of problems in even trying to venture to interpret Scripture. First of all, the Fathers were much closer both culturally and in time to the Apostles, and therefore could more easily place Scripture in its proper context. This is why you get so many crazy interpretations, especially by english speaking people in the west. They have no context.

Also, most Fathers understood Greek very well. For most, it was their native tongue. This is why many of the Latin Fathers, such as Augustine, had some problems. Latin did not contain the same complexity as Greek. It was a very straight forward language, while Greek was a very subtle language (we could get into the entire cultural situation of the Greco-Roman world of the early Church but I won't go there). Therefore, Augustine even made some errors, not being familiar with Greek.

As moderns, when we approach Scripture, it is easy to allow things like pride and vainglory to color what we are reading in the text. If we are not pure, we will not be able to see the Scriptures purely. If we are not humble, we will not allow our cherished notions to fall to the ground if it is shown that we are wrong.

The devil always tries to use Scripture to deceive us. I have found that the best way to answer him is to say, "I don't know about that. I submit to the teaching of the Church."

St. Paul said, "If any man thinks that he knows, he does not yet know as he ought to know."

I used to think that I knew a lot about the Scriptures as an Evangelical. I'm suprised at how misled I actually was, once I stopped trying to be my own interpreter of Scripture and submitted to the Church.

Jim

[Ken McRae]

One question to ask: am I so far down the spiritual path that my opinion even matters? If the answer is "yes" then the first thing to do is a PRELEST CHECK. Then look for corroboration.


I stopped trying to be my own interpreter of Scripture and submitted to the Church.

Thank you gentlemen for your very thoughtful replies, in which you both raise many good points. Perhaps, though, I should try to clarify a thing or two. First, I hope that I am not so delusional as to think I am somebody, least of all equal to the holy Fathers, whose feet I am unworthy to touch; nor so delusional as to imagine, even for a milli-second, that my "interpretation" could ever stand against their clear, well-defined, and authoritative teaching. Second, it is the clear teaching of the Scriptures that we ought to *daily* nourish our hearts upon the Word of God, for, according to the word of the Lord, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

Thus the Prophet Sirach says "Let thy mind be upon the ordinances of the Lord and meditate continually in his commandments (6:37)." And in Joshua, it is written that "this book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success (1:8)." And again, in Psalm 1, we read: "Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night." Thus is it written that "Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw (Gen. 24:63);" and that King David was vigilant during the night watch in meditating upon the Lord's testimonies: "Mine eyes prevent the night watches, that I might meditate in thy word (119:148)."

Insofar, then, as the saints are an example of the way we are to live, or the life we ought to lead, then we can safely ascertain that it's our solemn duty to continuously meditate upon "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God (Matt. 4:4);" whether at home or abroad, and most especially when the mind is incapable of pure prayer. Now, the expression "every word" would seem to mean the "whole" Bible, as the Word says "all Scripture" is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim. 3:16-17) But how can "every word" nourish the heart if it does'nt know or understand their meaning; and how can we understand without a Patristic guide, or without a clear patristic concensus on every verse; or if we are not allowed to interpret what we read, according to sound Patristic principles?

A complete Patristic commentary, on every verse of Scripture, would, of course, be the ultimate study guide and tool; but no such tool exists in the English language. The Lord knows I wish such a tool existed, but it does not, nor do I expect one to ever exist. What I fail to understand, though, is why there is'nt a more concentrated effort, by Orthodox scholars, at translating into English, all existing Orthodox commentaries on the books of Scripture, like the excellent series produced by St. Theophan the Recluse, for example. Such would be a clear step in the right direction, I feel. In the mean time, what are we to do who wish to exercise ourselves in meditating upon "every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God" when we have no guides or teachers, that we can turn to in the time of need? It is not so much that I want to formulate my "own" opinions on anything, but more times than not I have no alternative. Then there's the immediate and more practical problem of how to stop the mind from attempting to interpret or formulate "opinions" of "every word".

[Matthew Panchisin]

Dear Theophilus,

I think what Herman and Jim are getting at is there is actually a formula that exists for authentically interpreting scripture.

Obedience to scripture and God's commandments = understanding scripture

It is true that there have been Saint's that never even read scripture but knew it. They understood well the underlying theme that Father Seraphim mentioned, they had to.

If my memory serves me correctly I think in his commentary on the Psalms, Saint John Chrysostom mentions that the reason that we need actual scripture is because we don't really follow the commandments etc. like those that didn't have the text but actually knew it. Saint Mary of Egypt is one such well known example.

Actually there is a ton of Orthodox material that has been translated into English. Personally what I have just in my closet I sincerely doubt I'll get through within ten years. I have been told to read things very slowly and thoughtfully. Also personally from what I understand our guide is the Church and our life within it can be overwhelming in terms of what's there. It's not an intellectual thing but rather a struggle not to sin and be obedient to whatever is there at this time. Scholars don't put things there for us to understand. To be really involved in the Church means not to trust your own understandings, if ones understandings are correct they will fit into the Orthodox Church and you may find it was already there long ago. If it isn't there it just may not belong there, but those determinations are not made by us anyway.

Saint John of Kronstandt mentioned things like when you are washing your hands and face in the morning to pray "create a clean heart within me and renew a right spirit"

So what you have presented regarding how important it is to remember Holy Writ is good but the most important thing is our struggle to live out what the scriptures teach as opposed to writing about what they mean.

That's how I understand it and if I'm incorrect I would certainly welcome any
correcting comments from our resident Priest's, monastic's or Orthodox scholar's.

If it is God's will that we understand something then we will understand it when we are supposed to, that's one of the sound Patristic principles. After all one of the best ways to really understand something is to not understand it for a while. Our minds understand things when pursue a virtuous life, at least that's what I have read so far. Also we are usually told to attend the Churches services, help out in Parish life and most importantly pray. One could easily pray for 3-4 hours a day.

I had a monastic friend that recently reposed, she prayed alot. I knew her for many years since my youth. Two years ago she told me something that sounded so very strange and even off the wall. As she explained it to me, I thought something was seriously wrong with her. It turns out two years latter I think she might have been correct and I might have been completely wrong. I simply could not understand what she meant then and she knew that all along. Now it seems I'm beggining to hear a little better.

How she loved Pashca...


Also you have to remember on the Russian side things are just recovering as all things Orthodox are no longer destroyed. Many of the Orthodox scholars had been Priest's and had been killed.

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[Marcos G.]

I think there are a number of problems in even trying to venture to interpret Scripture. First of all, the Fathers were much closer both culturally and in time to the Apostles, and therefore could more easily place Scripture in its proper context. This is why you get so many crazy interpretations, especially by english speaking people in the west. They have no context.

Also, most Fathers understood Greek very well. For most, it was their native tongue. This is why many of the Latin Fathers, such as Augustine, had some problems. Latin did not contain the same complexity as Greek. It was a very straight forward language, while Greek was a very subtle language (we could get into the entire cultural situation of the Greco-Roman world of the early Church but I won't go there). Therefore, Augustine even made some errors, not being familiar with Greek.

As moderns, when we approach Scripture, it is easy to allow things like pride and vainglory to color what we are reading in the text. If we are not pure, we will not be able to see the Scriptures purely. If we are not humble, we will not allow our cherished notions to fall to the ground if it is shown that we are wrong.

The devil always tries to use Scripture to deceive us. I have found that the best way to answer him is to say, "I don't know about that. I submit to the teaching of the Church."

St. Paul said, "If any man thinks that he knows, he does not yet know as he ought to know."

I used to think that I knew a lot about the Scriptures as an Evangelical. I'm suprised at how misled I actually was, once I stopped trying to be my own interpreter of Scripture and submitted to the Church.

Jim
Jim, thanks for this thought. It is very meaningful for us who are converts to the Orthodox Faith. I have been following this discussion and I think the questions and the answers have been very good. I just wanted to let you know that I copied your entire answer (without your name) and emailed it to a friend of mine (Baptist) to whom I have sent some Orthodox texts. I think it is important as some people (myself included) have a history of being "intellectual" but that is not sufficient. We are used to being "interpreters" and later have found ourselves to be ignorant of more important things (prelest).
Christ is risen,
Marc

[Herman Blaydoe]

St Theophan the Recluse recommends that the spiritually immature stick to reading the lives of the saints. Those with more experience should add the writings of the Fathers. He finally recommends that only those who have attained a level of spiritual maturity and knowledge read Holy Scripture.

I don't know about that, but I do believe that Holy Scripture is only so beneficial in as much as it is studied and lived within the context of the Holy Church, which is the embodiment of Holy Scripture.

I do recommend an excellent book, The Word in the Desert by Douglas Christie-Burton, a must-have companion to The Sayings of the Desert Fathers, which examines just how the Fathers of the Sinai Desert interpreted/applied Holy Scripture in their lives. Very thought-provoking.

[James Aubuchon]

I just wanted to add a few more thoughts here. Obedience to Christ's commandments is the pathway to a true knowledge of Holy Scripture.

Christ said, "If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God..." (John 7:17 )

It is those who are not seeking to be conformed to the will of God that are in the greatest danger when approaching Holy Scripture.

St. Peter says of St. Paul's letters, "His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:16)

So obedience to both God and the Church is necessary to the right understanding AND apprehension of the Scriptures. It's not enough to study some Greek, study some historical backgrounds, and then try to understand AND apprehend what is said.

"If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:" (Isaiah 1:19)

So when we approach the Scriptures, we must be willing to hear God's word and do it.

"Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like." (James 1:22-24)

So the key Scriptural understanding is obedience and praxis. This is why many spiritual fathers who were unlearned could expound on the Scriptures so keenly. They were doers of the word, not merely hearers. The Holy Spirit then led them into all truth as Christ said He would.

I don't think it's wrong for Orthodox Christians to study the Scriptures. Just be willing in obedience to lay your mind at the feet of Christ, and of His Church.

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not to your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths." (Proverbs 3:5-6)

A reading of Psalm 25 is a good meditation on how one should approach the Scriptures. I won't quote it here, but it talks much about having the virtues of patience, meekness, fear of God, faith, integrity, uprightness, and humility in learning the ways of God.

I think that if we approach the Scriptures in this way, as beggars seeking bread, we will not go far wrong.

Jim

[M.C. Steenberg]

A complete Patristic commentary, on every verse of Scripture, would, of course, be the ultimate study guide and tool; but no such tool exists in the English language.
I'm not sure it would. A minute minority of the fathers ever address scripture in this manner (verse-by-verse commentary); those who do often have very specific reasons for doing so. Their contributions in such a regard are often ignored by other fathers.

Verse-by-verse analysis of a scriptural text sounds appealing to modern ears, because that is what we are used to thinking of as 'studying the scripture'. But for the majority of the fathers of the Church, it is not the specific commentary and linkage of consecutive passages of the text that best reveals scriptural meaning, but engagement with the word of scripture through engagement with the Word of God, the Son, the head of the Church. Scripture is not a study volume, but - to thieve Fr John Behr's words a moment - the 'matrix' in which the Church receives and explores divine revelation in the context of its life. This is why engagement with scripture is such a dynamic reality for the fathers: the text is not read in such a manner as to disclose 'its meaning', that is, the 'right' reading of a given passage. It is engaged with in such a manner as to reveal meaning and truth in the life of the Church, in broad and in very precise contexts.

That is why one of the main hurdles in developing any kind of thorough-going verse-by-verse commentary on scripture according to the fathers (apart from it being a rather un-patristic approach in general) would be the fact that passages have radically different meanings to different fathers - and even to individual fathers in different contexts.

INXC, Matthew

[Ken McRae]

St Theophan the Recluse recommends that the spiritually immature stick to reading the lives of the saints. Those with more experience should add the writings of the Fathers. He finally recommends that only those who have attained a level of spiritual maturity and knowledge read Holy Scripture.

Thank you for sharing a little from St. Theophan. This is good to know. I will certainly keep it under close consideration, and do further research into the matter. If you have his precise words on your computer, I would greatly appreciate your posting them at a convenient time. I would like to read his explanation for this, in light of the fact that Scripture is quite clear about the central place or role that the Word of God must assume in the Christian's spiritual life, at all stages of growth.

I have taken the time to post some Scripture passages below which speak of these particular stages in terms of three or four distinct classifications: 1) babes 2) little children 3) young men, and 4) fathers. I suppose one could speak of babes and little children as a single class, to bring things more into line with the three traditional stages of spiritual life: purification, illumination, and deification. At any rate, these are the passages in question:-

1 John 2:12-14 "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one."

1 Cor. 4:14-15 "I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."

Galatians 4:19 "My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you."

1 Pet. 2:2 "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby."

1 Cor. 3:1-3 "I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"

1 Cor. 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

Heb. 5:11-14 "Ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskillful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

John 3:9-12 "Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?"

As Christ said, the Word of God is our spiritual bread: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." (Matt. 4:4) In the Lord's Prayer, or the prayer to "Our Father", we are taught to pray thusly: "Give us this day our daily bread." (Matt. 6:11) But what kind of bread is this? For the belly, for the head, or for the heart? My feeling is it's first for the heart, that spiritual bread which "proceeds out of the mouth of God," which is essential above all, clearly. In Matthew 7:9 we're encouraged to ask for this spiritual bread, on the basis that if we will not give our own children a stone when they ask for bread, then neither will God give us a stone when we ask Him for spiritual bread. In other words, if we ask Him to feed us something from His Word, the Bible, will He say no, or give us poison instead? Or refuse to feed us from it until we're "mature" in the faith?

Now, in the above scripture texts, we see St. Peter exhorting the spiritual babe to "desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby." (1 Pet. 2:2) What is he saying here, if not that spiritual babes should be drinking in the holy Scriptures with the thirst of a newborn? Now, is this something that they are to drink in only once a week, during the Divine Liturgy, or daily? If daily, then where are they to find this "milk" during the week, if not directly from the holy Scriptures themselves? St. Paul describes the Corinthians as "spiritual babes", and says he fed them "the milk of the Word", as opposed to the meat. And in 1 Cor. 2:2, he says: "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." And where do we read about the Passion if not in the Gospels? It would seem, then, that St. Paul is indirectly alluding to the Gospels, by this expression: the "milk" of the Word. The writer to the Hebrews likewise refers to the "milk" of the Word which is for spiritual babes; and Its strong meat too, for the fully grown and mighty, like Apollos, whom we are told was mighty in the Scriptures. And as there is milk for the babe, and strong meat for the father, so is there something, too, for St. John's "young men". (1 John 2)


But, to return briefly to St. Theophan again, I would hazard a guess that by "spiritual maturity and knowledge", he is alluding to those Christians who have passed from the novice stage, or the stage of purification, into the next stage of illumination, or the stage of those who have become "proficient" in the faith. Of this second class, St. John says, in the first quoted scripture text, that they "are strong, and the word of God abideth in" them, and they "have overcome the wicked one." The mark of "spritual maturity", alluded to by St. Theophan, certainly appears to rule out babes in Christ, and even little children, from reading the Scriptures, if that is, in fact, what he has prescribed. Somehow, though, I'm struggling a little to "imagine" him forbidding spiritual babes and little children in Christ from reading the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, and the Psalms of David. If any parts of the Scriptures could be described as the "milk" of the Word, which would they be, in your estimate, if not these?


I don't know about that, but I do believe that Holy Scripture is only so beneficial in as much as it is studied and lived within the context of the Holy Church, which is the embodiment of Holy Scripture.

Without question.


I do recommend an excellent book, The Word in the Desert by Douglas Christie-Burton, a must-have companion to The Sayings of the Desert Fathers, which examines just how the Fathers of the Sinai Desert interpreted/applied Holy Scripture in their lives. Very thought-provoking.

Sincere thanks for an excellent recommendation. I will acquire a copy soon, the Lord willing!!

[Ken McRae]

... approach the Scriptures in this way, as beggars seeking bread ...

Thanks. I agreed with 100% of your post. Everything it says is in complete harmony with the patristic teaching that it's the pure in heart who will see God! With this I cannot possibly disagree! May the All-Merciful Lord have pity on my soul.


Scripture is not a study volume, but - to thieve Fr John Behr's words a moment - the 'matrix' in which the Church receives and explores divine revelation in the context of its life.

I once visited SVOTS, and attended some of Dr. Behr's classes, and they were by far the best, imo. Great observations, Matthew, great post! Loved it; can't think of anything to say against it.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Thank you for sharing a little from St. Theophan. This is good to know. I will certainly keep it under close consideration, and do further research into the matter. If you have his precise words on your computer, I would greatly appreciate your posting them at a convenient time. I would like to read his explanation for this, in light of the fact that Scripture is quite clear about the central place or role that the Word of God must assume in the Christian's spiritual life, at all stages of growth.

I think it is important to keep in mind that St Theophan's guidance is not - nor, I think, was it meant by him as - a universal maxim. Needs, in terms of what texts to read, and how to read them, are pastoral needs: they depend on the person. Clearly never exposing 'newcomers' to the scriptures in most parish settings would be a disastrous protocol.

His point seems to deal more with the question of 'digging in' to various texts; that is, 'studying' them in a deep way, searching for meaning. This kind of in-depth analysis can be deeply destructive if carried inappropriately; no further evidence for this is needed than the variety of Christian groups extant who ground themselves primarily in differing interpretations of the book of Revelation. For this kind of in-depth exegesis, maturity is needed: this seems to be Theophan's point.

But I don't take him as implying that the 'immature' should not be exposed to scripture. Clearly, these are read aloud in the Church, even - traditionally - to those unbaptised, before being removed from the Church (at 'Let the catechumens depart...').

INXC, Matthew

[James Aubuchon]

Now, in the above scripture texts, we see St. Peter exhorting the spiritual babe to "desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby." (1 Pet. 2:2) What is he saying here, if not that spiritual babes should be drinking in the holy Scriptures with the thirst of a newborn? Now, is this something that they are to drink in only once a week, during the Divine Liturgy, or daily? If daily, then where are they to find this "milk" during the week, if not directly from the holy Scriptures themselves? St. Paul describes the Corinthians as "spiritual babes", and says he fed them "the milk of the Word", as opposed to the meat. And in 1 Cor. 2:2, he says: "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." And where do we read about the Passion if not in the Gospels? It would seem, then, that St. Paul is indirectly alluding to the Gospels, by this expression: the "milk" of the Word. The writer to the Hebrews likewise refers to the "milk" of the Word which is for spiritual babes; and Its strong meat too, for the fully grown and mighty, like Apollos, whom we are told was mighty in the Scriptures. And as there is milk for the babe, and strong meat for the father, so is there something, too, for St. John's "young men". (1 John 2)


You may indeed be correct that the Gospels are the milk of the word, but there is also an idea that I have heard that I think has some merit. Milk is nothing other than digested food. The mother eats food, and then her body processes the food to produce milk. In this context, the milk would be the teaching of Scripture as taught and handed down by those who are skilled in the Scriptures themselves. This would include the whole Church, as well as our spiritual fathers. When we are babes, we rely on their teaching, making no efforts to plunge into the Scriptures themselves and try to "figure them out." Once we have become mature...once we have either achieved dispassion, or at least some significant measure of it, then perhaps we can attempt to dive in and seek for solid food.

This brings up what indeed constitutes a "young man". If they have "overcome the evil one" does that mean that they have achieved dispassion? It would seem that the "young man" has the "Word of God abiding in him", and so he would be able to perhaps be able to expound on Scripture (not without submission to the teachings of the Church of course), while not as yet being a "father", who it says "knows him who is from the beginning", having achieved the contemplation of divine realities.

I think that a babe in Christ should spend very little time reading the Scriptures on their own, and perhaps more time listening to their teachers (our Holy Fathers and perhaps their priest or spiritual father). They should perhaps be exhorted that there are many things hard to understand in Scripture, and instead of vaingloriously venturing an opinion, they should consult those who are skilled in the word.

As someone who spent many years wrestling with the Scriptures in vain (and I have a masters degree in theology), I would strongly urge any new Christian to perhaps do what St. Theophan says. I don't think that they have to "avoid" the Bible, but they should be firmly grounded in the theology of the Church. They should also be taught by their teachers where in the Bible these things are taught, so that they can stand firm when false apostles come around bringing strange doctrines that they claim are "biblical".

And of course to all of these "opinions" that I have ventured here, I humbly submit to the Holy Spirit and the Church,

Jim

[Herman Blaydoe]

No one, especially St. Theophan is saying not to be exposed to Holy Scripture. If you attend any Orthodox service, you can't escape it! St. Theophan even recommends that children be exposed to Holy Scripture from an early age, to learn the stories of the Bible. I think the "tone" of this discussion seems to have shifted. I thought the original inquiry was talking about INTERPRETING Holy Scripture. I think St. Theophan is saying that such things be undertaken with great care and even trepidation, and only by those who have striven to achieve the "mind" of the Church. Reading the lives of the saints shows real and practical application of Holy Scripture. Reading the Fathers gives us the theory that backs up the practical application. It is sort of like learning basic math and then algebra/geometry before diving into calculus. And I don't think anyone, least of all me, is saying too much differently (at least I hope I'm not...).

[Ken McRae]

I think the "tone" of this discussion seems to have shifted. I thought the original inquiry was talking about INTERPRETING Holy Scripture.

You're are correct, that it has shifted a little, and that appears to have occurred when you seemed to say St. Theophan recommended against letting novices "read" the Scriptures for themselves.



St Theophan the Recluse ... finally recommends that only those who have attained a level of spiritual maturity and knowledge *read* Holy Scripture.

Your use of the term "read" in the above statement made me think he was not talking about "interpreting", but just "reading". If you meant "interpret", then please accept my apology for the misunderstanding.

In conclusion, I believe I now have a better understanding of the issues underlying my original question. Simply put, it is wise to discourage novices from formulating their "own" opinions of anything. Please accept my apology for ever suggesting otherwise. It was proud and egotistic for me to do so! May the Lord have mercy on me.

[Moses Anthony]

hello ~ to all the friends of God ~ forgive me for another tangent but I've been pondering a little the meaning of the above principle and its practical application. First thing I'd like to determine is how it should rule or govern the way one approaches the reading and study of Scripture. Would it, for example, forbid a person from attempting to intertpret Scripture, or hold an opinion on the meaning of any passage not already clearly or definitively explained by the Fathers? All comments are welcome.In his book, The Communion of Love, Matthew the Poor wrote, "...Reading remains useless, understanding powerless, and memorization a mere repetition of empty words, unless we obey the commandment and the word becomes a law of life, no matter what sacrifice, cost, hardship, or scorn we may bear." He also wrote, "It is absolutely impossible that anyone should understand what he hears of the Word of God, if he is not completely honest befroe God and has not determined to surrender his life, his responsiblies, his interests, his money, his future ansd his own honor and lay them at God's feet."

Interpretation of Scripture (by the reasoning of Matthew the Poor), is a matter of hearing, honesty, and application; otherwise, what is heard or read of the Word of God, instead of bringing life to our spirit, bounces off our rocky hearts.

the sinful and unworthy servant

[Moses Anthony]

"...I think that a babe in Christ should spend very little time reading the Scriptures on their own, and perhaps more time listening to their teachers (our Holy Fathers and perhaps their priest or spiritual father). They should perhaps be exhorted that there are many things hard to understand in Scripture, and instead of vaingloriously venturing an opinion, they should consult those who are skilled in the word...."
Jim

I would refer you to post #12 in this thread, by Matthew, our moderator, and to the words of the Holy Apostle Paul who wrote that "babes" should "..desire the sincere milk of the Word..." The average Christian attends services once a week, which is their only exposure to the Word of God. If there's no regemen of intake of the Scriptures other than this, the Christian is more succeptable than normal to the errors of heresy. If there's a difference of opinion, or interpretation, "submit it to the Church"! We're told that the Apostolic Church "continued daily in the Apostole's teaching, in the breaking of bread, and in prayer...."We must for the sake of the health of our souls, read the Scriptures as much as possible; and if there's a question, as I said above, submit it to the Church,i.e., the teaching of the Fathers, and to our priest.

As St. Chrysostom said in one of his homilies on the Gospel of John (XV John 1:18) "...In order that we may properly interpret the entire passage according to its spiritual meaning, let us search it through from its beginning.". The most normative way in which we hear the voice of God speaking to us, is through His Word! And I would say, that even the youngest "babe in Christ" knows that one passage of Scripture, can speak one way to you, and another way to me. The Holy Apostle Peter wrote that "...Scripture is not a matter of one's own private interpretation, but men moved by the Holy Spirti spoke from God..."

The real point here is that WE MUST, WE MUST familiarize ourselves with the voice of God to us, lest we end up casting pearls before those to whom the Almighty is not speaking in the same manner, and what He has said to us is lost! This is however, not a liscense to heresy, but we submit all to the Church, which is the "...pillar and support of the truth."

a sinful and unworthy servant
Moses

[Ken McRae]

I was just reading St. Innocent's 'Indication of the Way', and came upon the following passage which I thought would fit in here:-

ST. INNOCENT OF ALASKA

It is extremely important to nourish in ourselves the desire and resolve to follow the path of salvation. To make this desire grow in us and strengthen our resolve, we must learn where the path Christ showed us leads and how to follow it. These questions are of such extreme importance we will discuss them in detail.

1. First of all, a Christian must thoroughly study the foundations of the Christian faith. To that end, you must read and reread the Holy Scriptures on a regular basis, especially the books of the New Testament. You must not only learn their contents but also develop an interest in their origin, who wrote them and when, how they were preserved and have been handed down to us, and why they are called Divine and Sacred. You must study the Holy Books with simplicity of heart, without prejudice or excessive inquisitiveness, not trying to discover hidden mysteries but trying to learn that which leads us to self-improvement. Certainly all that is necessary for us to know for our salvation is revealed quite clearly and in detail in the Scriptures.

It is important also to study our God-given faith in detail, since he who is indifferent toward truth is in danger of becoming easy prey for false teachers. It is so sad that many Orthodox Christians perish simply because of their disregard for Christ’s teachings. Having access to the light, they wander in the dark.

The studying of the faith should conform to your aptitudes and knowledge. For instance, for the serious student, in addition to studying the Scriptures, it is also useful to become familiar with the works of the Church Fathers and with the historical and theological books written by other Orthodox authors. These books will help you to comprehend your faith more deeply, which in turn will give you an opportunity to strengthen others in the Orthodox faith, to whom these books are unavailable.

2. When you become convinced that our Orthodox faith is based on Holy Scriptures and is not invented by people and that the Holy Scriptures contain the true word of God, revealed by the Holy Spirit through prophets and apostles — accept it with all your trusting heart. Believe the Holy Scriptures without doubt or philosophizing, pushing aside all heretical explanations. If you humbly accept Christ’s truth, then your faith will become strong and will lead you to salvation.

3. Finally, try to nourish a diligence in yourself to follow that which is taught by the Holy Scriptures. But if you do not have such diligence, fall down before the Savior and with a sincere prayer ask Him to send you a zealous wish to live according to His commandments. Then, when the grace of God starts leading you toward salvation, follow it, valiantly repelling the snares of the devil, who will attempt to detract you from Christ’s path.

To illustrate what was just said about the path into the Kingdom of Heaven, let’s assume that unexpectedly you became the sole heir of a rich relative. This relative, before dying, willed his magnificent mansion on the top of a picturesque mountain to you. Loving solitude, he had not built any roads but reached his mansion by a trail. In order to help you take possession of the property, he left you a map of the mountain, indicating the correct trail on it. The mountain has many other trails, none of which reached the mansion; some lead to a dead end, and others to a steep cliff. Therefore, in order to reach your mansion, you have to take the trail indicated by your loving relative.

Prudence would suggest that, before undertaking such a trip, you should carefully study the map of the mountain, obtaining all the necessary supplies for the climb and being prepared to spend the night on the mountain, if necessary. It would be good to ask a ranger about landmarks on the mountain and how best to avoid losing your way or straying from the correct trail. Certainly, being a person with common sense, you would make all necessary preparations before setting off on this new trail.

Similarly, to reach the Kingdom of Heaven, we should determine which path leads to it, how not to falter, what we must beware of, etc. Our map is the Holy Scriptures and other Orthodox books; the rangers are the pastors of the Church, whose duty it is to help the faithful on their way toward Paradise. The provisions are the Mysteries (Sacraments) of the Church, which reinforce our spiritual strength.

4. The Holy Spirit may be received by piously reading and listening to the Holy Scriptures. Being the Word of God, they hold a great treasury of spiritual enlightenment and wisdom. The Holy Scriptures are one of God’s greatest blessings, which can be used by anyone wishing to do so. In them, the divine wisdom is presented in such an easy, approachable manner that even the simplest and most uneducated person can understand it. Many cases are recorded throughout Church history and in the lives of the saints, in which the simplest of people, while studying Holy Scripture, were enlightened, became pious, and received abundant gifts of the Holy Spirit even while some scholars and intelligentsia read the Holy Scripture and became confused and fell into heresy. The difference was that while the first read it with simplicity of heart, seeking in it spiritual direction, the second approached it with criticism, attempting to uncover inconsistencies. Considering themselves wise and all-knowing, these last succumbed to pride and even became false teachers. Be aware that our small and imperfect intellect cannot encompass God’s wisdom. God enlightens those who with a pure and kind heart turn to Him in search of enlightenment. Therefore, in reading the Holy Scriptures, lay aside all worldly wisdom and inquisitiveness. Submit to the word and the will of Him who speaks to you through Holy Scripture, and beseech Jesus Christ to enlighten you and show you the path to salvation.

There are many other books besides Holy Scripture that are beneficial for reading: the works of the Holy Fathers, the lives of the saints, inspirational stories, sermons, and other praiseworthy writings of Orthodox authors. From the books available to you, read those that are based on Holy Scripture and are in accord with the teaching of the Orthodox Church. Beware of those poisoned by heresies and non-Christian ideas.

(Quoted from An Indication of the Way @ http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/kingdomofheaven.aspx )

Archimandrite Justin Popovich on HOW TO READ THE BIBLE:- http://www.stvladimirs.ca/library/read-the-bible.html