The Trinity in the Old Testament

[Theopesta]

dear venerable members:

I wonder if I can find any thing about the trinty in the old testament in the early fathers or any book about this.

IN ONE CHRIST, best regards, theopesta

[Ken McRae]

Dear theopesta ~ The following list of online resources should help to get you started. I will supplement it, with either book titles or more web links, when I can either remember them or stumble upon them again. There's a lot more out there, I'm certain. May the Lord bless and guide you in all your studies and meditations.

ORTHODOX SOURCES:-

01 - Fr. Michael Pomazansky (1888-1988) on Indications of the Trinity in the Old Testament.
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/dogmatics_pomazansky.htm#_Toc514547725

02 - Fr. Georges Florovsky (1893-1979) on the Patristic Fathers

i ) The Eastern Fathers of the Fourth Century
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/fathers_florovsky_1.htm

ii ) The Byzantine Fathers of the Fifth Century
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/fathers_florovsky_2.htm

iii ) The Byzantine Fathers of the Sixth to Eighth Century
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/fathers_florovsky_3.htm

03 - Henry Bettenson on the Early Christian Fathers
http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/early_christian_fathers.htm

04 - Quotes from the Fathers on the Trinity
http://www.cin.org/users/jgallegos/triune.htm

NON-ORTHODOX (HETERODOX) SOURCES:-

05 - The Holy Trinity in the Old Testament - by Constance Woods, Ph.D.

PART 1 = http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/1998-01-02/trinity.html
PART 2 = http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Faith/1998-03-04/trinity.html

06 - The Trinity In The Old Testament - by Arthur C. Custance, Ph.D.
http://custance.org/old/incarnation/

Custance is a Protestant and the above link takes you to his work on "The Virgin Birth and the Incarnation". Go directly to PART V which is the section dealing with the Old Testament revelation of the Holy Trinity.

07 - The Doctrine of the Trinity in the Old Testament - by Nathan Kassulke

PDF Format = http://www.wls.wels.net/Publications/Theologia/vol5no2/KassulkeTrinity/KassulkeTrinity.pdf
HTML Format = http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:4gZ--qdV3E8J:www.wls.wels.net/Publications/Theologia/vol5no2/KassulkeTrinity/KassulkeTrinity.pdf+The+Trinity+in+the+Old+Testame nt&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8

08 - St. Athanasius and the Trinity
http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ319.HTM

[Theopesta]

Please is their any theological difference between the 2 terms: Godhead and God in the theology of the old testament

[Ken McRae]

To the best of my knowledge, the term 'Godhead' is not found in the Old Testament. In the Protestant King James translation, the term is employed only three times, but in the New Testament:-

1 - Acts 17:29 "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device."

2 - Rom. 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse."

3 - Col. 2:9 "In him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."


In the Douay Rhemis Catholic translation, the term is used only once, in Col. 2.9 :- "In him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally." In Acts 17.29 and Romans 1.20 - the Douay Rheims uses the term "divinity" instead of "Godhead".

I'm obviously open to correction here, but as far as I know, the Orthodox view the term 'Godhead' as referring to the Trinity. If you have some specific Old Testament verse(s) in mind, why not post them and perhaps some others will join in and volunteer a word or two, as well.

[M. Markewich]

I registered here just to respond in this very thread! Just so you know in advance, I'm a young whipper snapper, but I've been doing a lot of reading recently on the Trinity and especially references to Christ in the Old Testament (under the guise of Wisdom in Proverbs and some of the apocryphal books). As shown on another thread (that is now archived), there is a great link explaining a lot of this: http://www.tektonics.org/jesusclaims/trinitydefense.html

To give the general idea of the article, Trinitarian theology found its base in Jewish Wisdom theology. Wisdom is presented as a personified attribute of God, and in fact, an equal to God. Jesus makes the connection in the New Testament saying that He is, in fact, Wisdom.


For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, 'Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified by all her children."

Also, we have two passages in the New Testament on the same conversation that are phrased slightly differently (these verses are only portions of them):


Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,

Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, 'I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,'


The evidence shows that Jesus Himself was saying He is the Wisdom of God personified, in a sense.

Forgive me if this was a kind of giant step into this forum, especially for a youngin' who should know his place like me; but I thought this was something really important to present about the Trinity.

Edit: I want to say that, if anyone has a reply, I won't be here to respond until the end of the month. Sorry.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Mr Markewich - Firstly welcome to the forum. It is good to have you here, and I look forward to the discussion that will come from this. INXC, Matthew

[Theopesta]

a lot of thanks Mr. Matt. as your pure thoughts in your post helpful for me

[Tim Grass]

To the best of my knowledge, the term 'Godhead' is not found in the Old Testament. [...] I'm obviously open to correction here, but as far as I know, the Orthodox view the term 'Godhead' as referring to the Trinity. If you have some specific Old Testament verse(s) in mind, why not post them and perhaps some others will join in and volunteer a word or two, as well.
Am I wrong in thinking that the term "godhead" doesn't really show up in Christian conversation until the third or fourth century AD, as part of the whole Arian Controversy? I can't remember what the Greek word is right now.... but I wonder if it ever occurs in the OT or NT at all?

--tim

[Theopesta]

Dear All:

these Quotatins not to explain the trinity in the old testamen but, I think if I am not mistaken it is helpful to understand the trinitarian sense present in Genesis

from St.Cyril of Alexandria on Gospel of John
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/cyril_on_john_01_book1.htm


The Father then being considered as the Source, the Word was in Him, being His Wisdom and Power and Express Image and Radiance and Likeness. And if there was no time when the Father was without Word and Wisdom and Express Image and Radiance, needs is it to confess too that the Son Who is all these to the Everlasting Father, is Everlasting. For how at all is He Express Image, how Exact Likeness, except He be plainly formed after that Beauty, Whose Likeness He also is?


the Father Ἀρχὴ, that is the Power over all, that the Divine Nature Which is over all may be shewn, having under Its feet every thing which is originate, and borne above those things which are by It called into being.

also,
http://www.bcbsr.com/books/john1a.html


We indeed say that the person is an individual. But then again the person has a spirit, soul, and body. And some come up with other various divisions, but the point is that we can speak of the plurality of the individual, which though being a paradox is not a contradiction. Who are you? Are you your body? In your funeral others will see your body but speak of you not being there. Is what you are defined by your mind, will and emotions? Or are these internal manifestations of who you are? People will hold varying opinions on these issues, but really the same kind of questions come into play as we inquire concerning the nature of God. Jesus is as God's body and as such there is no contradiction in calling him God. When we look into the sky we call "the sun" the light that comes from the sun and we call "a star" the light that comes from the star. So also we call Jesus Christ "God" as he is the light that comes from God.


John chose to express the initimacy between the Word and God in this paradoxical manner. But for this to be a paradox and not a contradiction I would say that the first usage of the word "God" cannot be exactly the same as the second usage of the word "God". The Word was with God the Father, whom is most frequently simply referred to as "God", and the Word was a part of the Godhead which traditionally has been referred to as the Trinity.

in ONE CHRIST, Theo-

[M. Markewich]

a lot of thanks Mr. Matt. as your pure thoughts in your post helpful for me
You're welcome. It really is really great to know that, despite what the Jewish people claim today, God was thought to exist in more than one Person before Christianity was around.

[Dave Ferguson]

Some of the clearest references to God in some sense containing a diversity within himself come in the very earliest part of the Torah Genesis and Exodus. I mean particularly in the references to the Angel of the Lord. Sometimes called the angel of the Lord's presence (or face). The Father's, at least before Augustine, were very clear on these being references to the preincarnate logos, though Augustine muddied the waters a bit on this one. There are also many references to the glory or Shekinah of God which John clearly identifies with Jesus. These refernces seem to me to refer to God as he is manifested to us. I don't think there is any concept of an ontological trinity or for that matter an ontological monad in the OT. I thibnk therfore you would have to say the Old Testament refernces are concerned with the dynamic trinity known in God's energies.

[Dave Ferguson]

Oh I forgot to mention, Jesus pretty much identifies himself with the Angel of the presence when he says My Fathers house has many mansions I go to prepare a place for you. The last part of this quotes the words of the Angel from Exodus.

[Theopesta]

A lot of thanks for your precious thoughts

[Kosta]

The Fathers have seen many types and allegories of the Triune God in the OT; a Foreshadowing of the Trinity.

The most popular is Genesis 18.1-3. In Orthodoxy this event is depicted in the icon of the Hospitality of Abraham and is a type of the Trinity.

Another OT foreshadowing of the Trinity is found in Isaiah 6.3,8. The triple holy hymn sung by the angel(v3). In verse 8 God says, "who will I send and who will go for us". God uses both the singular and plural to refer to himself.

The repitition of Holy, Holy, Holy in Isaiah 6.3 assumes a triune God (cf. compare this triple repititon with Rev 8.13)


Gen 19.24, "Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven".

Mentioning "Lord" twice in the same sentence, the Fathers interpreted this to mean From God the Father thru God the Son. This is basically the same Orthodox understanding as given to the psalm which reads, "The Lord said to my Lord sit at my right hand till i make my enemies your footstool"

the above are a few examples

[John]

Hello Kosta,

Thank you for the quotes about the Trinity in the OT. Do you have more? I would really like to read them, and maybe we can discuss them.

Our Mission Group did a study a few years ago about the Cross in the OT, as a way to show the world that even the older Scriptures talk about Jesus Christ.

The topic here seems like it has a lot of evangelical potential.

Yours,
John