St Gamaliel

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear All,

Today is the feast day of Ss Peter and Paul. Paul was a student of the rabbinical teacher Gamaliel, who in later Christian tradition (St Photius himself wrote concerning this see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamaliel),) is considered a saint. The OCA website has an entry on St Gamaliel (see the entry for August 2nd, I'm afraid I cannot link to it directly), but the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese Website does not refer to the whole story on the same day (see here (http://www.goarch.org/en/chapel/saints.asp?contentid=150) ), or to St Gamaliel as a saint. I wonder if there is any jurisdictional discrepancy here as to St Gamaliel's status as a saint, i.e. do Russians accept him as a saint but not Greeks (which would seem odd, given St Photius writing about it)? If there is no disagreement over his status, why does the GOA website not mention him as a saint?

In Christ
Byron

[Olga]

There is an archangel by the name of Gamaliel, as well as the rabbinical teacher you mention. It appears that the Slavic churches do commemorate him, on August 2. Here is the excerpt from one calendar I have on file:

August 2 / 15. Translation of the Relics of Protomartyr and Archdeacon Stephen [Acts 6:8-7:5, 47-60; Matt 21:33-42]. Translation of the Relics of Righteous Nicodemus, Gamaliel, and Abibus. Blessed Basil of Moscow, fool-for-Christ. Blessed Basil of Kubensk. Hieromartyr Stephen, pope of Rome. St. Marco of Belavinsk (Vologda). St. Friardus of Vindumitta (Gaul). (Greek Calendar: Martyr Phocas. Translation of the Relics of Martyrs Maximus, Dada, and Quinctilian at Dorostulum in Bulgaria.)

Perhaps the reason why the GOC site does not mention St Gamaliel is that the site (and many Greek calendars) only tends to mention the highest-ranking feast for the day, in this case, the translation of the relics of Protomartyr Stephen.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Olga,

Thank you for your response concerning St Gamaliel. I didn't know there was also an achangel by this name. Do you know if the name means something?

What is very interesting regarding Sts Gamaliel and Nicodemus, is that both were learned Jewish rabbis and members of the Sanhedrin, contemporaries of the Lord, who recognised His divinity when it was being disputed by their peers. St Gamaliel is still considered an important teacher in Judaism. I think there is a strong lesson there for those who would condemn or exclude others by their group allegiance alone.

In Christ
Byron

[Olga]

It appears that the meaning of the name Gamaliel is "recompense of God".

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Olga,

I have also found this meaning of "Gamaliel" by searching the net. However, I can't seem to find him mentioned as an angel, except in a gnostic and esoteric context (see here for example, (http://www.steliart.com/angelology_angel_names_G.html)sorry about the less-than-professional website!!). The question now arises whether Gamaliel is acknowledged as an angel by Orthodox sources and by the church.

Regarding the rabbi Gamaliel, the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia says that according to Photius, he was baptized by St. Peter and St. John, together with his son and with Nicodemus. It also mentions that his body, miraculously discovered in the fifth century, is said to be preserved at Pisa, in Italy.

In Christ
Byron

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear Olga,

I have also found this meaning of "Gamaliel" by searching the net. However, I can't seem to find him mentioned as an angel, except in a gnostic and esoteric context (see here for example, (http://www.steliart.com/angelology_angel_names_G.html)sorry about the less-than-professional website!!). The question now arises whether Gamaliel is acknowledged as an angel by Orthodox sources and by the church.

Regarding the rabbi Gamaliel, the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia says that according to Photius, he was baptized by St. Peter and St. John, together with his son and with Nicodemus. It also mentions that his body, miraculously discovered in the fifth century, is said to be preserved at Pisa, in Italy.

In Christ
Byron

Indeed this is correct. The Gemaliel we commemorate was the teacher of St Paul not an Archangel.

The names of the seven Archangels whom we commemorate are: Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel, Salathiel, Jegudiel and Barachiel.

I think it was St John Chrysostom though who says that we know only a tiny fraction of the angels and their names. So maybe there is a Gemaliel that we don't know about yet.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Thank you for clarifying that, Fr Raphael. Regarding angels, is it true that the reason they cannot sin, or more correctly cannot repent from sinning, is because they do not possess a physical body?

Regarding St Gamaliel, would you agree that he and St Nicodemus are good examples of how righteousness in the Mosaic Law has a special potential to flow seamlessly into Christian faith? Judaism is not the same thing to Christians as is, say Hinduism, which is based on a different set of premises -not that a pious Hindu cannot become a very devout Christian, but just that figures like St Gamaliel and St Paul himself show very clearly the special intimacy, and at the same time the crucial distinctions, between the old and the new revelations in the two Testaments.

In Christ
Byron

[Olga]

The list of names provided by Fr Raphael are the most common ones for the "known" archangels, however, I have come across Orthodox sources (too far back to remember exactly which or where) which list slightly different names, hence my earlier post on Gamaliel as an archangel. Of course, the names which never vary in the list are Michael, Gabriel and Raphael (your patron, Father R?)

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Byron wrote:


Regarding angels, is it true that the reason they cannot sin, or more correctly cannot repent from sinning, is because they do not possess a physical body?

The Fathers use language for the angels like, 'they cannot sin' but I think in our terms what they meant would be more like, 'they do not sin.' Certainly since the angelic creation has will then not sinning is connected to their will.

What the Fathers mean by 'cannot' at least as far as I can understand this is due to their overwhelming intellectual nature and focus which is not easily altered. My sense of it is that both their will and strong intellectual focus account for the fact that some angels could fall but once having fallen they cannot return to their previous state. Maybe another way to put it is that due to their nature they overwhelmingly assent to the focus of their intellect. So again in our terms it's not that the fallen angelic beings cannot return to their previous state- it's more that they will not and do not return to it.

Perhaps others could comment on this.


Regarding St Gamaliel, would you agree that he and St Nicodemus are good examples of how righteousness in the Mosaic Law has a special potential to flow seamlessly into Christian faith? Judaism is not the same thing to Christians as is, say Hinduism, which is based on a different set of premises -not that a pious Hindu cannot become a very devout Christian, but just that figures like St Gamaliel and St Paul himself show very clearly the special intimacy, and at the same time the crucial distinctions, between the old and the new revelations in the two Testaments.

In Christ
Byron

The Mosaic Law is the unique way in which God providentially laid out the path towards the New. This is distinct though from the intrinsic desire for God which all men are created with. Of course these two are not opposed in any way since the former depended on the latter just as accepting the New Covenant depends on this also.

But in the case of the Mosaic Law we see how God works with this intrinsic part of what we are. Maybe that is why the whole Old Testament is read by us Christians as a plan by God to lead us more fully towards Himself. Human nature clearly is not enough- we also need God's providential help which is revealed to us in the Scriptures.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Olga wrote


Of course, the names which never vary in the list are Michael, Gabriel and Raphael (your patron, Father R?)

Yes that's it! Actually before my then spiritual father was going to tonsure me into monasticism he told me my name would be Gabriel or Raphael since as a layman my name was Michael. For some reason I was expecting Gabriel as the tonsuring took place but then when I heard the name Raphael that certainly was alright.

I also turn to the New-Martyr Raphael of Lesvos for added help.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Eric Peterson]

Regarding the question of whether St. Gamaliel is considered a saint by the Greeks...

Oftentimes it will appear that a certain saint does not show up in a certain synaxarion, but will in another. This just means that one synaxarion is either more complete, or has more of a local flare. Russians and Greeks commemorate some saints on different days, usually a day or two apart, unlike differences between West and East (even in Orthodox times in the West), where the difference could be measured in months.

Other times, a saint will not appear on a list because there is no service for that saint. Perhaps a more highly-venerated saint's service is performed instead, perhaps the saint is not well-known, etc.

I can't think of a case of Orthodox not sharing the same saints. But, a local saint's veneration is often confined to a particular area or group, until the veneration spreads.

One such case is my patron, St. John Maximovitch of San Francisco. At first the only people who knew him were the ones who knew him before his death--the Russians in the Church Abroad, for the most part. Later, others in non-Russian jurisdictions started to venerate him. Then, after he was glorified, and churches were built and named after him, his veneration spread even further afield. But still, not everyone knows who he is. The whole process takes time.

And, with saints such as St. Gamaliel, whose feast occurs together with the translation of the relics of St. Stephen the Protomartyr, it's likely that no church services are done for him, since (correct me if I'm wrong) the liturgical material would favor St. Stephen.

Eric

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

At least in the Slavonic menaion there is no service to St Gamaliel.

At St Tikhon's in PA there was a Fr Gamaliel. He was one of the first converts in America from the same time as Archbishop Dmitri (I think they both knew each other in Texas).

When I arrived at St Tikhon's, Slavonic was still extensively used in the services. Often Fr Gamaliel would serve the the Vigil. Priidite poklonimsya (O Come let us Worship) in Slavonic in a Texas accent isn't something you soon forget.

In Christ- Fr Raphael



And, with saints such as St. Gamaliel, whose feast occurs together with the translation of the relics of St. Stephen the Protomartyr, it's likely that no church services are done for him, since (correct me if I'm wrong) the liturgical material would favor St. Stephen.

[Olga]

While there may not be a specific service written for St Gamaliel, a service could still be conducted in his memory, by using the "common" or generic Menaion service as appropriate to his rank of sainthood.

Slavonic with a Texas twang? Hoo! How did you manage to keep a straight face, Fr Raphael? :) (Mind you, the average monolingual Aussie attempting Slavonic can be just as interesting..)