St Mark the Solitary: 'He who does not understand...'

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear All,

I came across the following quote in "Word from the Fathers" on the Monachos website:
When one man helps another by word or deed, let them both recognize in this the grace of God. He who does not understand this will come under the power of him who does.
—St Mark the Solitary Can someone explain what this means, especially the second sentence?

In Christ
Byron

[Kusanagi]

meaning the person who does understand will teach you and you will be under him.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Thank you, kusanaqi for clarifying that. I suppose "to come under the power of" is not meant in a negative way here then?

In Christ
Byron

[Kieran P.]

Hi Byron,

I could be wrong, but does it not mean that if we refuse to acknowledge - or we don't understand - the origins and workings of grace, we will come under the power eventually of "of him who does", ie, God (to keep us mindful of our judgement).

No?

God bless

[Kusanagi]

Thank you, kusanaqi for clarifying that. I suppose "to come under the power of" is not meant in a negative way here then?

In Christ
Byron

Because the saying is from a saint it does not have a negative meaning because they want us to take part in the goodness that they have receieved.

If it is seen as a negative it is because the person reading it approached the text in a wrong frame of mind.

So to expand further on the second sentence it means the person who doesn't understand will be the person who is being helped by the person who does understand either by word or deed, so it makes the second person come unto submission or under the power of the helper.

[Rick Henry]

Dear Byron,

This is interesting. I am reading this as a kind of proverb. My sense is there is a negative implication here and warning. I wonder if you could give us a wider context?

In Christ,
Rick

[Michael Stickles]

The quote comes from St. Mark the Ascetic "On the Spiritual Law: Two Hundred Texts" in Vol. 1 of the Philokalia; it's text #74. All of them are short like that. Here are the immediately preceding and following texts:

#72 - "If you wish not to incur guilt when men praise you, first welcome reproof for your sins."

#73 - "Each time someone accepts humiliation for the sake of Christ's truth he will be glorified a hundredfold by other men. But it is better always to do good for the sake of blessings in the life to come."

#75 - "Anyone who praises his neighbour out of hypocrisy will later abuse him and bring disgrace upon himself."

#76 - "He who is ignorant of the enemy's ambush is easily slain; and he who does not know the causes of the passions is soon brought low."

I'll admit that the context (if it really is context) doesn't help me figure out what he means in the second sentence of #74; it kind of feels like the meaning is a little deeper than my mind or heart can reach at the moment. I put it out here in case it helps someone else.

In Christ,
Mike

[Rick Henry]

Orthodox Hermeneutics?

I agree Mike, no specific context. When we look at the verse(s) before and after we see that we are dealing with a certain genre and our more standard hermeneutics do not apply. However, I am still a believer that 'context is king' in such matters, so possibly we can look at the larger context here. This may prove to be a very interesting case study.

In Christ,
Rick

[Antonios]

I may be way off base here, and I first submit that this is merely my thoughts, but when I read the quote, the first thought that came to my head was what St. Paul wrote:

"Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?" (1 Corinthians 6:2-3)

There may be no connection, but I thought I should share this.

[Kusanagi]

Dear Byron,

This is interesting. I am reading this as a kind of proverb. My sense is there is a negative implication here and warning. I wonder if you could give us a wider context?

In Christ,
Rick

The key part here is the Grace of God. I don't think there are anything negative involved if someone does something for the neighbour in a good way. I don't think God's grace works in people who does negative things to another. If it is negative it is not helping then it's for self gain.

[Paul Cowan]

When one man helps another by word or deed, let them both recognize in this the grace of God. He who does not understand this will come under the power of him who does.
—St Mark the Solitary

IMHO:

The meek shall inherit the earth.
Humility conquers pride.
If pressed to walk a mile, walk two.
Turn the other cheek.
Repay bad with good and you will heap coals on their head.
Love your neighbor as yourself.


Only by God's grace are we able to do these things. By recognizing it is God working in our lives and not by our own power we the "new man" gains a foot hold over the "old man". For the person that does not recognize God's power in another, he assumes the role of god himself and will in time be put to shame. He will be put to shame by the person who is admittent of God.

IMHO,
Paul

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear All,

There seem to be a lot of thoughts surrounding the possible meaning of this saying. Some see a positive, and some perhaps a negative connotation to the second sentence. What the first sentence seems to make clear is that whenever one person helps another, this is done through the workings of divine grace. In that sense, 'understanding' this would mean having the humility to know that, when we are helping somebody it isn't our own innate generosity, but the work of the Holy Spirit in us which is enabling us to help. Therefore I would surmise that in the second sentence it is suggested that this humility would make a person even more receptive to grace, i.e. more 'powerful', than another who attributes the help they are offering to their own efforts. In that sense the 'self-sufficient' person will come to need the help of the believing person at some point.

Then again, maybe the "him who does" in the second sentence is actually God, as Psalm 23 suggests:
if we refuse to acknowledge - or we don't understand - the origins and workings of grace, we will come under the power eventually of "of him who does", ie, God (to keep us mindful of our judgement).


I'm still rather unclear...

In Christ
Byron

[Kusanagi]

reading your qoute Byron just reminded me of one of the teaching of Christ, that when you teach others what you practice you would be called great in Heaven.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Kusanagi,

That does seem pertinent. Can you expand on how it might throw some light on the saying?

In Christ
Byron

[Rick Henry]

reading your qoute Byron just reminded me of one of the teaching of Christ, that when you teach others what you practice you would be called great in Heaven.

Dear Sigfrid,

I did not know this was a teaching of Christ. May I ask what you are quoting here when you say 'teach others what you practice and you will be called great in Heaven.'

In Christ,
Rick

[Kusanagi]

Dear Kusanagi,

That does seem pertinent. Can you expand on how it might throw some light on the saying?

In Christ
Byron

When one man helps another by word or deed, let them both recognize in this the grace of God. He who does not understand this will come under the power of him who does.
—St Mark the Solitary

One brother understands something and for the love towards his brother's salvation he will help by word or deed. The Grace of God shines over them both because helping your brother in need I would assume is pleasing to God and then the other person would share in this grace because of the good nature of his brother. So through this goodness God's grace enevelopes them both. The second qoute is refering to the first one that if you don't understand you will come under the power of the one who does because you will seek and listen and obey that person because of his understanding.

An example of this is the Ethiopian who met St Philip and he didn't understand a passage from the bible and he asked St Philip's help and St Philip wishing to help his fellow man explained the passage to him.

Matthew 5:19:

Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

One of the commandments would be to Love your neighbour as yourself, if someone practices the commandedments and teaches them because he wants to share the experience of his joy that Christ gives him to his fellow man and help him attain salvation in the ways he knows how and thats the teaching what he practices then he would be called great in heaven.

[Michael Stickles]

I assume, Sigfrid, you're referencing Matthew 5:19?


Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

(as an aside, an elder at a Charismatic church I once attended used to use this verse in combination with Matthew 11:11 to show that a purely propositional approach to Scripture interpretation can lead to some ridiculous outcomes).

Mike

[Rick Henry]

His Commands

Thanks Mike, you got it! Yes, when 'our' practice is in line with 'His' theory--the beatitudes in relation to the Kingdom of God--what a novel concept.

When there is 'both' a practicing 'and' a teaching of 'His' commands, *then* there is blessing for self and others who are ministered to from the overflow. But, it seems like we have talked about this somewhere else recently?

As for the one that doesn't know/understand this we are right back to post #1 in this thread.

And, yes Mike as you imply, the larger context!

In Christ,
Rick

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear All,


As for the one that doesn't know/understand this we are right back to post #1 in this thread.

I am now getting a sense that we've moved on a bit since my first post. Sigfrid's post above, linking the saying to the Ethiopian who met St Philip, suggests to me another sense of "to come under the power of" - namely, that those who understand will be given responsibility to enlighten those who do not as yet. In a sense, it means "to come under the care of".

What do others think?

In Christ
Byron

[Kusanagi]

Dear All,


I am now getting a sense that we've moved on a bit since my first post. Sigfrid's post above, linking the saying to the Ethiopian who met St Philip, suggests to me another sense of "to come under the power of" - namely, that those who understand will be given responsibility to enlighten those who do not as yet. In a sense, it means "to come under the care of".

What do others think?

In Christ
Byron

well I gave extra thoughts into this another example is when we submit ourselves to our spiritual fathers and listen to their advice, I don't use 'come under the power of' the spiritual father as that seems too strong an expression and it seems that the spiritual father is the dominating figure.
Similarly to the role of a bishop i believe, as Byron said those that do not understand will come under the care of those that do, so the bishops role is to guide them in the right direction.

Also in all walks of society if someone does not understand something and they find someone to explain it to them, they are in a way coming under the power of those who do, by coming back to them and asking more questions as you notice that the former understands better than you do.

I think examples of the roles of spiritual fathers, the hierarchs, teachers, lecturers gives an idea of what it means to come under the power of those who do. understand As I feel the person with power is held in an authorative view.

[Byron Jack Gaist]

Dear Sigfrid,

Thank you, that makes things clearer for me. People who do experience and understand the operation of divine grace are in a sense automatically assigned the responsibility of caring for the unfortunate people who do not; much as parents are responsible for the safety of their children, since they know the possible consequences of playing with matches, knives etc. Children automatically come 'under the power of' their parents for protection from life's basic risks and dangers, and sinners likewise are automatically the responsibility of the Church, which is enjoined to help them.

I think that's clearer, but if someone thinks I'm getting it wrong, please feel free to comment!

In Christ
byron