Which Orthodox communion is more evangelical?

[Shawn Lazar]

Dear Friends,

I'm an evangelical Christian whose worshipped in different Orthodox contexts over the last 6 or 7 years, but with mixed experiences.

My basic question is: is there one particular Orthodox fellowship that would have more evangelical sympathies than another?

My experience thus far has been that the Antiochian Orthodox Church places more emphasis on things like evangelism, Bible studies, and a personal relationship with Christ, than other Orthodox churches. Then again I've worshipped with some Copts where I could have sworn I was in a Billy Graham crusade!

On the down side, I've been in some OCA churches where the sermons were either 5 minute meditations on the life of a particular saint, or about how Islam, Judaism and Christianity are "three rivers who stem from the same source of Life." I would love to attend an Orthodox church where the sermons are reminiscient of Chrysostom, Augustine, and the evangelical churches I'm used to. Maybe it all depends on the particular local church, rather than the particular communion. Any suggestions?

In Christ,
Shawn

[John C.]

Hi Shawn

This might not even answer your question, but I just had some tangential thoughts about my own journey which might be helpful. (Or, of couse, they might not be...)

I found a few things to be generally true among the stories of converts to Orthodoxy. Namely, that the things practiced within the Orthodox Church which appeal to the curious evangelical observer cannot be fully appreciated from the outside.

I've ridden the fence for a number of years before taking the plunge (baptism and chrismation) thinking that I could pick and choose what I wanted to from various Christian traditions - and bypassing things that didn't appeal to me... a rather "KMart" Christianity, so to speak, where I could feel good that my local KMart had both a Mary Aisle and an Icon Aisle where I could browse at my whim.

But, as my wife describes it when telling of her journey, "it was as though I were near the feast, but could not eat."

When we made the decision to join the OCA parish here, we had to uproot from a vibrant fellowship (Christian and Missionary Alliance) where we had become quite active. It was a difficult goodbye. They wondered what kind of church would pull us away from them, as 'we had so much to offer.' And they were on the verge of building expansion, doubling their attendance, etc...

When I told them our new church was very small, with about 12 attending, and that there was no children's program because there were no children, and that the average age of the members is 63, they were perplexed.

Though they never quite understood it, I told them that I was not joining a church for its programs, or what it had to offer for my kids, or because they have a great worship band. Neither was I leaving them because of any conflict with any of the members. I was making the move out of obedience to what I knew would be a God-pleasing thing to do.

Since then, we have had the opportunity to fellowship at various parishes - and it's the oddest thing: we always feel at home wherever we go.

Divine Liturgy is not about the sermon or homily. It's not even about the camraderie and fellowship. It's about the Eucharist - which binds us together more deeply than can be imagined without experiencing it. Taste and see.

[Shawn Lazar]

Hi John,

Thanks for relating your story to me. I can appreciate your choice of priorities - choosing what you understand to be truth, over the professionalism and programs of the mega churches.

Your last sentence, the challenge to taste and see, was very relevant, because its an issue I've been researching recently. In fact, I was just discussing the issue of the Orthodox, Lutheran, and Zwinglian views of the eucharist with my wife earlier today. She is from a strict Brethren church background, where the Lord's Supper was/is eaten every week. She, along with the other member of her church, place a great emphasis on the Lord's Supper, and reverance it a great deal, not for the thing in itself, but as a commemoration of what the Lord did on the cross on our behalf. From her perspective, and I think she can speak intelligently for her tradition on the whole - from her perspective, saying that the meal is holy because it actually turns into blood and flesh is a superstition and takes away from the true mystery, holiness, and intent of the meal.

Challenged by Orthodox and Catholic claims about the Lord's Supper I've been recently going through my theology and history books. But after re-reading the Apostolic Fathers, Irenaues, Hyppolytus, and going through the Biblical arguments made in support of a true transformation taking place in the wine and bread, I would have to be honest and say that the evidence would seem to be slim to none. In other words I don't feel their is sufficient Biblical or historical warrant to think this was a belief of the early church, and I know in practice that believing in a true transformation of the bread and wine is not necessary for hallowing the meal, or for being impacted by its meaning.

I'm sure you and your wife did the same kind of research. What made you decide otherwise?

In Christ,
Shawn

[John C.]

I'm sure you and your wife did the same kind of research. What made you decide otherwise?


In all honesty, I did very little 'true scholarly research' into the subject. Not to belittle intellectualism, but it was not a matter of intellect.

I recall the last communion service I attended as a Protestant. I do not deny the almost palpable meaningfulness of the service to those who were present. But I was no longer worshiping in spirit and truth. I remember holding the grape juice and cracker, and thinking along the lines of 'examining myself' so that I could partake in a worthy manner as we were reminded of in the 1 Corinthians passage.

My thoughts were scattered and fleeting. "I am remembering, Lord... Well, maybe I'm remembering... I wasn't really there... But You were there, and if You're here, surely You can help my remembrance be worthy..."

In the end, I swallowed and hoped for the best.

This after thirty years of thinking that I was blind but now I see. This, after nearly ten years of working in Ethiopia with a non-denominational Protestant mission organization. It was unnerving.

I know it might sound kinda odd, but I feel as though I were chased into Orthodoxy.

[Owen Jones]

If my faith depended on the preaching, I would have become a Buddhist a long time ago....But all seriousness aside, on to another point. While, yes, I suppose I did make a decision to become Orthodox, let's not commit the voluntarist fallacy here. It is God moving us, to the extent that we are willing to deny our own will. As for mission work, the great possibility that exists is for Orthodoxy to acquaint "modern man" with the blessings of the contemplative life, especially through the witness of monasticism, which is undergoing a modest revival of late. This is a common language that people can understand experientially. It is missionary work by attraction, not promotion. Also, I truly believe that parish life needs a standard outside of itself to live up to. Traditionally, for about 1700 years, that standard has been the monastery.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Owen wrote


Also, I truly believe that parish life needs a standard outside of itself to live up to. Traditionally, for about 1700 years, that standard has been the monastery.

Maybe that's why parish life scrapes along the ground if it falls into the trap of becoming a religious/moral society or worse. Parishes can be extremely active and yet miss something essential, the pearl of great price or as you say, "a standard outside of itself to live up to."

It seems the equal temptations are crudity on the one side & the hop 'til you drop mentality. Both forget that we have an angelic calling and try to stuff all sorts of other things into the space left by not pursuing this.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Ken McRae]

Maybe it all depends on the particular local church, rather than the particular communion. Any suggestions?

I think it may depend more on the individual priest, and his particular gift(s) and vision of the ministry, than upon anything else. As expressed before, in other threads, not all possess the same spiritual gift for preaching. Still, after two decades of service and opportunity to hone one's talent, it is reasonable to expect a decent effort, at the very least.

Regarding your experience in the OCA, I remember asking a few people at the OCA Parish I once attended about the priest's skill in the pulpit. Their reply was very sad, to say the least: "What skill? He does'nt give Homilies," they said to me. I was stunned and speechless, partly because I perceived this as one of the OCA's largest Canadian Parishes.

I later discussed this with a Greek Orthodox friend, and asked him about his priest; and his reply was that his priest delivers a 30 minute (or longer) homily every Sunday, without fail! And I know from reading the lives of a few saints that solid Orthodox preaching did not pass away with the Patristic fathers. It is reported of St. Tikhon of Zadonsk that he loved preaching and never lost or missed an opportunity to do so!

It is great for a priest to excell at Liturgy and spiritual direction in Confessing and guiding private individuals, but this is not a justifiable excuse for neglect in the ministry of the Life-Giving Word. When the Apostle's decided to enlist the service of deacons, it was so that they could dedicate themselves to prayer and preaching, or the ministry of the Word. Every priest should follow their most holy apostolic example!

St. Paul exhorts priests to be "instant" in this ministry, or to be ready at every opportunity, both "in season and out of season," to preach the Life-Giving Word of God! And to neglect such a solemn or grave duty on the Lord's Day, especially, is a great sin, I'm afraid! How is the Liturgy complete without the experimental and practical preaching of the Life-Giving Word? It is not, nor can it be!

While not specimens of the "perfect" Homily, these Online Videos of Orthodox Sermons (http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/past_sermons.html) at least demonstrate that some shepherds do indeed struggle to feed their sheep. And how will the Lord fail to bless a long and faithful struggle in this ministry? Surely He will bless it and not with just a little spiritual fruit! The ministry of the Life-Giving Word, when steeped in spiritual prayer, will never return to the Lord void of spiritual fruit!

[Anthony]

I may be wrong, but I thought the prerogative of preaching belonged to the bishop, and was delegated by him to priests (or even laymen) who he considered suitable. In other words, it is not necessarily expected of every parish priest as such.

[Ken McRae]

I've never heard that before, Antonios, but if you're right, then it begs the question why a Bishop would appoint such a priest to one of the country's largest Parishes, whom he has deemed unfit, or at least unprepared for the ministry of the Word; especially if the Parish will have only the one priest. It was never suggested to me, at the time of the above enquiry, that perhaps this priest (of whom I've spoken) was forbidden to preach.

I remember being in his Church office once, and it was a big office with many wall shelves, and the thing that struck me about all these shelves was that they were completely empty, save for two books which he loaned me! And the two books: one tiny volume of Fr. Schmemann's Homilies, and one very thick tome on the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. Needless to say this priest was an expert in the Liturgy. It was clearly where he concentrated his energy and talent, imo!

[Father David Moser]

I may be wrong, but I thought the prerogative of preaching belonged to the bishop, and was delegated by him to priests (or even laymen) who he considered suitable. In other words, it is not necessarily expected of every parish priest as such.

It is true that the authority to teach belongs to the bishop, however, it is normally considered to be the regular responsibility of the priest to give homilies as a part of his parish ministry. The instructions for clergy from the statues of ROCOR bear this out:

Guidelines for clergymen, Section II, para 25ff
25. While serving the Divine Liturgies on Sundays and feast days, the priest must accompany them with edifying instructions as Canon 19 of the 6th Ecumenical Council commands....Those entrusted to him, he must teach the right Faith, the commandments of God and all the Christian virtues
26. Minful that teaching is one of the primary duties of a priest, he must, in addition to regular preaching during the divine services (note that this instruction does not limit homilies to liturgy, but assumes that they will take place at any and even all of the divine services - Fr David), tend to the enlightenment of his flock with the help of outside, extra-litugical talks on spiritual topics for the spiritual perfecting of his parishioners.
27. With the aim of increasing the ... enlightenment of his parishioner, the priest must write and deliver lectures, if he is properly trained for this, or [if not]reat to his parishioners excerpts from the works of the Holy Fathers and from other suitable spiritual literature. He ought to organize parish talks by lecturers recommended for this by the diocesan leadership, or by neighboring priests well-known for homiletic or educational activity. ... "


There are occasions where a priest is deprived of the right to teach or preach, but such tend to be rare and for cause. However, the "default" is clearly that the priest has the responsibliity to teach, to enlighten and education his flock in the Orthodox Faith.

The bishop may also empower certain educated laymen to teach - and priest may often delegate some in his parish to do this educational work under his own oversight. Note the provision that even if the priest is not trained or gifted in homilizing, he can still read appropriate sections from the Holy Fathers or other spiritual literature as a homily.

Fr David Moser

[Mark Harrison]

Dear Friends,

I'm an evangelical Christian whose worshipped in different Orthodox contexts over the last 6 or 7 years, but with mixed experiences.

My basic question is: is there one particular Orthodox fellowship that would have more evangelical sympathies than another?

My experience thus far has been that the Antiochian Orthodox Church places more emphasis on things like evangelism, Bible studies, and a personal relationship with Christ, than other Orthodox churches. Then again I've worshipped with some Copts where I could have sworn I was in a Billy Graham crusade!

On the down side, I've been in some OCA churches where the sermons were either 5 minute meditations on the life of a particular saint, or about how Islam, Judaism and Christianity are "three rivers who stem from the same source of Life." I would love to attend an Orthodox church where the sermons are reminiscient of Chrysostom, Augustine, and the evangelical churches I'm used to. Maybe it all depends on the particular local church, rather than the particular communion. Any suggestions?

In Christ,
Shawn

Dear Shawn,

First of all, the very use of the term 'communion' here has me puzzled. There is only one Orthodox 'communion.' There are multiple administrative jurisdictions, but multiple communions. That would imply, in my mind at least, that these 'communions' were not in communion with each other. If two jurisdictions are not in communion, there is a state of schism.

If you are looking for excellent preaching, I know of three Antiochian parishes where you can find it: Holy Trinity, Santa Fe, NM (Fr John Bethancourt); All Saints, Chicago (Fr Patrick Reardon), and Holy Cross, Yakima, WA (Fr Joseph Copeland. Their styles vary greatly. Fr John Bethancourt has kept me listening for a solid hour. Fr. Patrick is also very dynamic. Fr Joseph, while not as dynamic, is very powerful in his insights into society and the growing breach between the Church and the world. He was my own pastor for seven years. His sermons come from the heart, and I know from the experience of residing in the parish that he practises what he preaches.

The two best OCA homilists I know are Frs Thomas Hopko and Paul Lazor. Fr. Thomas is very much focused on facing the realities of one's own life and not trying to pretend to fit into a mould. Fr Paul draws on his profound liturgical formation and from that he finds ways to connect people to the liturgical life of the Church.

If the Antiochians are more 'evangelical' it is probably because they have had the greatest influx of converts from Evangelical sects. In 1987 a large group from Campus Crusade for Christ were received en masse into the Antiochian Archdiocese. Criticisms of their bringing with them a Protestant ethos and mindset were somewhat justified, at least at first; but my experience with them tells me that this was mostly a matter of immaturity in the Orthodox Faith. The more they lived the Orthodox life, the more they were trasnformed by it. As a result, they have been able to discern what was good about having a 'personal relationship with Christ' and what was distorted. Many others in the Antiochian Archdiocese came from Anglicanism. They fled the rampant heresy there. All in all, the large number of converts among the Antiochians, both clergy and laity, has meant that the Antiochian Archdiocese has been able to set aside the mentality of being Orthodox because Granny was. Being Orthodox is a matter of personal commitment in the face of a world that rejects firm believe in anything.

Although evangelism may be more forceful in the Antiochian Archdiocese, it is not unique to that jurisdiction. I don't have much direct experience to speak from when it comes to other jurisdictions, but I have read articles in various jurisdictional periodicals to know that preaching the Gospel and truly living the Christian life is valued throughout the Orthodox Church. The generation that originally fled the Bolsheviks, and the Serbian communists; and even ROCOR and the Serbian Patriarchate today will be filled with those who bear witness to the heroic struggle of martyrdom. Among the Greeks in this country there is a revival of true Athonite monasticism. Yet, the monastic life is not unique to the Greeks in North America, and the witness to martyrdom is not unique to the Russians or Serbs, and witness to conversion from heresy and paganism is not unique to the Antiochians. The Greeks have their martrys and the Russians CERTAINLY have their ascetics. I'd have to beg the forgiveness of all ROCOR participants if I were to ignore Holy Trinity Monastery in Jordanville! While all of these backgrounds lead to a powerful Orthodox Christian devotion, that really is very personal, it may mean that not all are equipped to articulate their faith and their experience in terms to which Americans can easily relate. Ascetism is fundamentally foreign to American culture. Martyrdom is foreign to any culture that focuses on 'diversity' in such a way that firm faith in a particular belief lose value. Perhaps what we need to see most in American Orthodoxy is the joining of the Antiochian ability to speak to the American mind and the old-world experience of asceticism and martyrdom, so that the former effectively communicates the latter.

If you've been to an OCA parish in which the priest talked about Judaism and Islam flowing from the same source as Christianity, please write to the local bishop!

MAH

[Anthony]

Fr David bless.

Thank you for the clarification. I think I might have been extrapolating from Greece, where the parish clergy at least in the villages used not to have a high level of education. Certainly in the village where I lived in Greece, the local priest did not preach or hear confessions.

[Owen Jones]

I've not read every message on this topic, so I don't know if this has been addressed or not. But what is Orthodox evangelism? (i.e. Christian evangelism) I think any attempt to answer that question has to incorporate what we call the ascetic virtues. The ascetic virtues are not only highly prized for their own sake, but as a eschatalogical sign of the Kingdom, of the passing away of this world, of the passage from this world to the next. Whereas many Protestants are to be commended for their commitment to the person of Jesus Christ, every Orthodox faithful knows, or should know, that that commitment must be exemplified, and that is by living the life that Christ himself lived. In Orthodoxy, monasticism developed as a way of institutionalizing the ascetic virtues, as Christian faith became socially acceptable (even a requirement if one wanted to advance socially in the new Christian Empire), and so parish life became what we might call watered down. Monasticism remains today the ideal Christian calling for all Orthodox. In little ways, those of us who are married, and in business and engaged in all kinds of worldly enterprise, can and should incorporate the monastic virtues into our daily lives. Voluntary poverty in the sense that we willingly tithe. Chastity in that we don't cheat and engage in the sexualization of the culture. Humility in the sense that we hold our tongue when urged to speak ill of others, etc. Without these virtues, Christian faith, it seems to me, is a hollow shell. That is how we evangelize as Orthodox. By attraction, not promotion. By trying in small ways to exemplify Christ in our midst, and, I should say, by supporting monastics and the growth a strong, vibrant, healthy monasticism (by encouraging our sons and daughters even to consider this as a vocation).

[Ken McRae]

I've not read every message on this topic, so I don't know if this has been addressed or not. But what is Orthodox evangelism? (i.e. Christian evangelism) I think any attempt to answer that question has to incorporate what we call the ascetic virtues. The ascetic virtues are not only highly prized for their own sake, but as a eschatalogical sign of the Kingdom, of the passing away of this world, of the passage from this world to the next ... etc. Without these virtues, Christian faith, it seems to me, is a hollow shell. That is how we evangelize as Orthodox. By attraction, not promotion. By trying in small ways to exemplify Christ in our midst, and, I should say, by supporting monastics and the growth [of] a strong, vibrant, healthy monasticism (by encouraging our sons and daughters even to consider this as a vocation).

You've basically summed up the Lord's teaching in St. Matthew 5:3-16! "So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven (vs. 16)." My daughter will have her tenth birthday this Sept. 24th. While she has never had any real "person-to-person" exposure to monastics, I have been suggesting to her, from time to time, that she give serious thought to chosing this vocation in life. Sadly, though, it does not yet appeal to her. I attribute that, in part, to my own failure to exemplify the life of the Kingdom! May the All-Merciful Lord help us all to let the Light of Christ so shine through us, both at home and abroad, in a manner that attracts others to the Life of Christ!

[Father David Moser]

YMy daughter will have her tenth birthday this Sept. 24th. While she has never had any real "person-to-person" exposure to monastics, I have been suggesting to her, from time to time, that she give serious thought to chosing this vocation in life. Sadly, though, it does not yet appeal to her. I attribute that, in part, to my own failure to exemplify the life of the Kingdom!

I don't think it is so much your life that is the reason that she has not shown interest in the monastic life, but rather the fact that she has never had any real "person to person" exposure. If you really want her to consider monastic life begin taking her to monasteries now, let her begin to be friends with monastics now. Don't delay, ten years old is still part of the critical time when she begins to develop real concepts of different ways of life. Since she doesn't know any monastics, she really doesn't know what it means to be one, nor does she have the context to imagine herself in that role. It is no wonder she isn't interested, she doesn't know what to be interested in - she can't see herself in that role because she hasn't seen anyone in that role. Start taking her to monasteries now - or better yet she and her mom can go on pilgrimage together to women's monasteries for an extended stay (say a week) where she can really get to experience the life.

Fr David Moser

[Ken McRae]

Start taking her to monasteries now - or better yet she and her mom can go on pilgrimage together to women's monasteries for an extended stay (say a week) where she can really get to experience the life.

Father bless!

Thank you for your kind and wise advice. It is my sincere intent to do as you graciously suggested; but to get my wife involved to that degree would require nothing less than a remarkable magnitude of Divine Intervention! To begin, my wife is Catholic and shows not the least visible interest in converting to Orthodoxy. But never say never! With God all things possible! I'll try to work something out. She probably would'nt object too strongly to my taking our daughter, so that's the path I'll probably explore first. Hopefully I can creatively work this into her Home-School Program as one or more "field-trips"! :)

humbly,
Theophilus