Liturgical garb of chanter/readers

[Bratislav]

I am slowly on my way to becoming tonsured a reader (God willing) and would like to find out a bit about the liturgical "costume" required. I have seen readers simply dressed in lay clothing as well as donned in black.

I suppose this might be a good opportunity to discuss any and all other aspects of the office of "chanter" such as history and differences between the customs of the various local Churches.

Thank you

Bratislav

[M.C. Steenberg]

In a post above, Bratislav wrote:


I am slowly on my way to becoming tonsured a reader (God willing) and would like to find out a bit about the required liturgical "costume" required. I have seen readers simply dressed in lay clothing as well as donned in black.

This is a difficult query to answer, at least with a 'simple answer', because the practical response is: 'It varies from place to place'.

According to traditional practice, as reader is a tonsured office that involves clothing in a rasson, the one so tonsured and clothed should wear the clothes of his office when performing his duties (i.e., a tonsured reader should wear a rasson when serving as a reader). In some larger churches, it is also the norm for a tonsured reader not only to wear the rasson, but also a sticharion when reading the epistle during the Liturgy.

That being said, in many places it is not customary practice for readers to wear the rasson, and tonsured readers carry out their office in normal lay clothes. While this is technically an oikonomia or lessening of the rules for vesting, it is in many churches (or dioceses) the standard.

The best advice is, of course, to follow the custom of your local church as defined by the bishop through your parish priest.

This may be a good point to recall that the rasson is not a 'sign of office', as such -- i.e., in those churches where it is worn by readers in their function as readers, it is not a sign of rank. Rather, it is the liturgical equivalent of 'becoming invisible': its plain, stark blackness is meant to remind both the people present, and above all the reader himself, that it is not he who is significant in the function of reading in Church, but the words of the text one conveys.

INXC, Matthew

[Father David Moser]

Matthews comments were a sufficiently complete so I won't repeat too much - just hope to embellish a little. A reader, in the Russian tradition, wears a podriasnik (under cassock, rasson) in Church and when he is serving, he wears a sticharion (robe type vestment common to deacon and lower). When he receives the Holy Mysteries, he should be attired according to his office (ie - in sticharion) which he doesn't have to put on until the "Our Father" if he is not serving. That is the "full scale" version. Readers can wear "street clothes" (I know some choir directors who routinely do that) in church when not serving. The best thing is to do what your priest and bishop tell you to do (since as Matthew mentioned, it does vary from parish to parish and diocese to diocese).

Father David Moser

[Bratislav]

Thank you Fr David and Mathew for your help. But another question has been raised through my looking into this. The website orthodoxwiki.org( a semi-reliable source in my estimation) seems to draw a distinction between the office of reader and the office of cantor. Does anyone know the history of this seperation between the two positions?

Thanks again.

[Herman Blaydoe]

Can't talk specifically to the history, but I would say the difference is that the cantor is generally someone who has received specific training in the intricacies of the octoechos and rubrics but is not specifically ordained (although he or SHE may have a blessing), while the office of reader is specifically oriented to reading the Epistle, and is a minor clerical order. A reader may or may not have knowledge of the rubrics beyond being able to figure out the correct reading for the day and some readers also serve as cantors. Whereas I am the parish cantor and lead the singing (we do not have a choir, but do congregational plainchant in the Carpatho-Russian tradition), we also have a tonsured reader who generally does the Epistle reading (alternating with our two subdeacons and a "reader-in-training") and not much else, liturgically-speaking. My assistant cantor is a woman, who leads the singing when I am not able to attend.

Cantors in our diocese (ACROD) have official duties outlined in the bylaws such as leading the congregation when there is no choir, teaching music in Church school, and official responsibility for conducting the Christmas Pageant! Another difference is that, in some parishes (not mine unfortunately...) the cantors are designated (in the bylaws) as a PAID position, but I have never heard of a paid Reader (unless he is specifically serving as the cantor).

So, in a nutshell (as I understand it): Readers read the Epistle, cantors do pretty much everything else not done by the clergy. Readers are ordained or tonsured, cantors are not (although they may receive a blessing), unless they are also Readers! And it takes a lot more musical training to be a cantor than to be a reader, but there are probably differences and nuances from one jurisdiction or Tradition to another.

[Father David Moser]

I would say the difference is that the cantor is generally someone who has received specific training in the intricacies of the octoechos and rubrics but is not specifically ordained (although he or SHE may have a blessing), while the office of reader is specifically oriented to reading the Epistle, and is a minor clerical order. A reader may or may not have knowledge of the rubrics beyond being able to figure out the correct reading for the day and some readers also serve as cantors. Whereas I am the parish cantor and lead the singing (we do not have a choir, but do congregational plainchant in the Carpatho-Russian tradition), we also have a tonsured reader who generally does the Epistle reading (alternating with our two subdeacons and a "reader-in-training") and not much else, liturgically-speaking.

Actually there is not any particular office of "cantor" in the Orthodox Church. As Herman mentioned there is usually a person who has the responsibility for making sure that the music and reading all happen in the right order at the right time - but that is actually the duty of the tonsured reader (but not all readers can do it). There is usually a person in large parishes and monasteries who has the primary responsibility for this called the "ecclesiarch". It is that person's responsibility to know all the rubrics and to lay everything out so that it all flows during the service. That person also is responsible to train others so that there are many people who can do the job. Although readers should have this knowledge the "ecclesiarch" is not necessarily a reader - he could be a priest, a deacon, or even a layman. Sometimes it is the "choir director" (regent). But other than an informal use (such as Herman describes) I have not heard the term "cantor" in any kind of consistent official useage.

The reader should be more than just a glorified epistle reader (although that is one of his duties). As I mentioned the reader should know the typicon and the music, however, he is also the one whose responsibility and privilege it is to read all of the "chanted" parts of a service. (the OT readings, the psalter, the 6 psalms, the verses between the stichera (when they aren't appointed to be sung) or between the beatitudes in liturgy, etc. With a "fully functioning" reader, the antiphonal quality of the Orthodox services begins to come into prominence, even with only one choir (much of the rubrics are written for two choirs or even three).

I think it is a pity that the office of reader has been so degraded that it is, in some places, just a "merit badge" for the priest's chief supporters and they never receive any training, nor are they held to any level of responsiblity. But thankfully that attitude seems to be decreasing (in my experience) and most new readers actually are expected to know the services and the music and to fulfill a legitimate liturgical role in a parish.

Fr David Moser

[Herman Blaydoe]

I would only add that practice varies between Greek, Russian, Antiochian and my own Carpatho-Russian--where the role of the cantor IS specifically defined in our bylaws. The Russians don't really use cantors per se. The Antiochians have them to do the "Arabic" chant not appropriate for the choir or in the absence of a choir, and of course the Greeks have their own traditions that emphasizes the cantor more or less depending on how strong the choir may be.

I guess the bottom line is: If you are ordained or tonsured, you are a Reader, if you are not ordained or tonsured and performing the duties, you are essentially a cantor (or chanter in a Russian parish since they really don't have cantors). Your parish may vary...

[M.C. Steenberg]

It is possible that the vernacular is being used to denote simple categories of training, as Fr David indicated. In other words, that your parish is using 'cantor' simply to mean 'someone in the office of reader, who has more training'.

'Ecclesiarch' is a formal role in monasteries and in some cathedrals (rarely in parishes); however, the role of 'typikarios' (or, in Slavonic styling, 'ustavchik') is more common -- and this tends to be the person who knows the typikon intimately and can see to the proper ordering of services, etc. (in many monasteries, the ecclesiarch and the typikarios are different roles: the former looks after the proper functioning of the church [lighting of lamps, lay-censing, icons, etc.], while the latter looks after the textual componants of the services [selection of troparia, canons, hymns, etc.]).

There is no reason that a parish typikarios need necessarily be a tonsured reader; nor, necessarily, must each reader by a typikarios (though a full working knowledge of the service books of the Church would be a wonderful gift in any reader).

INXC, Matthew

[Andreas Moran]

According to traditional practice, as reader is a tonsured office that involves clothing in a rasson, the one so tonsured and clothed should wear the clothes of his office when performing his duties (i.e., a tonsured reader should wear a rasson when serving as a reader). In some larger churches, it is also the norm for a tonsured reader not only to wear the rasson, but also a sticharion when reading the epistle during the Liturgy.

I wonder if, in parishes, the Reader wears the clothes of his office (rasson/sticharion) only when actually reading or throughout the service. At the monastery here, Archimandrite Zacharias blesses me to wear a rasson only to read; I put it on just before and take it off after. But, of course, though I worship there I'm not a member of the Community. (One good reason for not wearing the rasson throughout the service is that visitors do not then try to kiss one's hand - as happened once as I was standing waiting to go to read!)

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Andreas, you wrote:


I wonder if, in parishes, the Reader wears the clothes of his office (rasson/sticharion) only when actually reading or throughout the service. At the monastery here, Archimandrite Zacharias blesses me to wear a rasson only to read; I put it on just before and take it off after. But, of course, though I worship there I'm not a member of the Community. (One good reason for not wearing the rasson throughout the service is that visitors do not then try to kiss one's hand - as happened once as I was standing waiting to go to read!)

I don't believe it's possible to give an uniform answer on this, as practices vary widely. In many Russian Orthodox parishes of which I'm familiar, the strict custom is followed: namely, that once one is tonsured and robed in a cassock, one always wears it in the church. When one reads, as a tonsured reader in the Russian custom, one vests (i.e. in a stichar), and that may then be taken off after the reading; but the cassock remains.

But in many (many) parishes, this practice of the reader fully vesting is not followed (except, perhaps, on great feasts), and so the reader reads in cassock alone. In such customs, it is often the case that the reader will only don the cassock for the reading (i.e. before taking the blessing to read the Apostle), and will remove it after the Gospel.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Paul Cowan]

We have two readers in my parish. They both wear their cassocks the entire service time.

Paul

[Andreas Moran]

As parish members, that seems right. I seem to recall that the canons required all clergy, even readers, to wear clerical garb always. In Moscow even some deacons and priests do not wear the rasson outside church. A few years ago, the Copts opened a church in Rotherham (yes, Rotherham!). One day, I was pushing my trolley around Tesco and almost bumped into their priest in full garb. A Coptic priest in Tesco in Rotherham is a sight you don't forget!

[Nina]

In the parishes I have been readers/chanters/cantors also wore it during the service.

Andreas what's wrong with Rotherham? And what is pushing your trolley?

[Herman Blaydoe]

In ACROD, the instructions are specific. Readers and subdeacons wear cassocks at church functions and are not to wear them outside church functions.

[Andreas Moran]

In the parishes I have been readers/chanters/cantors also wore it during the service.

I'm not in a parish and I have to obey Archimandrite Zacharias.


Andreas what's wrong with Rotherham? And what is pushing your trolley?

Rotherham, where I was born and brought up, is an industrial town next to Sheffield and very much a tough, northern working-class sort of environment. It used to be all coal mines, railways and heavy engineering factories and very dirty. It's better than it used to be. But it's the last place you'd expect to find a Coptic church. Of course, there's no Orthodox church, neither in Rotherham or even Sheffield ( a city of nearly 1m people). The trolley is the wire basket on wheels we use in supermarkets - we push it round the shop and put our groceries in it. Don't you have the same?

[Nina]

I'm not in a parish and I have to obey Archimandrite Zacharias.

I was actually saying those words in relation to Paul's post. I did not mean it for you. And not only you have to obey but it also made sense since ppl started kissing your hand! giggles... Maybe you should put a big ring on and be the Godfather :P



Rotherham, where I was born and brought up, is an industrial town next to Sheffield and very much a tough, northern working-class sort of environment. It used to be all coal mines, railways and heavy engineering factories and very dirty. It's better than it used to be. But it's the last place you'd expect to find a Coptic church. Of course, there's no Orthodox church, neither in Rotherham or even Sheffield ( a city of nearly 1m people). The trolley is the wire basket on wheels we use in supermarkets - we push it round the shop and put our groceries in it. Don't you have the same?Thank you for the explanation. Ah I did not know what Tesco is! That's why. I thought it is a neighborhood. I would have figured it out if I knew. We call those trolleys, shopping carts here. :) But I had heard trolley meant other things and I was not sure what you meant. :)

[Kris]

As parish members, that seems right. I seem to recall that the canons required all clergy, even readers, to wear clerical garb always. In Moscow even some deacons and priests do not wear the rasson outside church. A few years ago, the Copts opened a church in Rotherham (yes, Rotherham!). One day, I was pushing my trolley around Tesco and almost bumped into their priest in full garb. A Coptic priest in Tesco in Rotherham is a sight you don't forget!

You wouldn't happen to have a reference for this canon?

As a reader (unfortunately, of the ignorant kind Fr. David mentioned) I'm expected to wear my cassock whenever I'm in church. I've never seen a reader wearing their cassock outside church though.

Speaking of Copts, they do actually have a particular office of cantor, separate from the office of reader, to which one is tonsured. Perhaps this is indicative of an earlier practice that has since fallen into disuse in the Greco-Russian tradition?


The practice of readers wearing black cassocks is one that came about after the fall of Byzantium as far as I'm aware. The Romeiko Ensemble have tried to reconstruct the clothing worn by the choirs in the Byzantine period. You can see them here (http://www.liturgica.com/video/?hostname=null). While impressive, I'm not sure I could keep a straight face if I walked into a church and saw the choir wearing sombreros and bullet hats.

[Rick H.]

But I had heard trolley meant other things and I was not sure what you meant. :)



I don't want to start any trouble here Nina, but there is really some odd thinking over there. For example, I've been told that all of their candidates for policemen have to be named "Bobby" if they want to have a chance at getting a job.

[Nina]

I don't want to start any trouble here Nina, but there is really some odd thinking over there. For example, I've been told that all of their candidates for policemen have to be named "Bobby" if they want to have a chance at getting a job.

I am proud to announce that I do not get this saying of yours! :D

But trolley is something which I did not know means shopping cart also. Honestly I did not know this particular meaning of trolley. That is why I asked.

See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley)it says that trolley is shopping cart in British and Australian. And I am sorry but I learned English in US. I do not speak British, Australian and Canadian. :P

[Eric Peterson]

Wow. It looks like the Byzantines get the award for the Funkiest Hats.

[Nina]

Wow. It looks like the Byzantines get the award for the Funkiest Hats.

:D Didn't you know that all the cultures of the world copied their hats from Byzantium? Also the masked balls got their costumes from there. Do not listen to what history says. It is all true. Byzantines are guilty. :P

Plus you should know that they call themselves Romeiko and not Byzantine for a reason. Because Rome is the moda (fashion) capital of the world. :P

Seriously now, I got scared from them when I saw them some months ago with their hats and costumes.

[Olga]

Speaking of Copts, they do actually have a particular office of cantor, separate from the office of reader, to which one is tonsured. Perhaps this is indicative of an earlier practice that has since fallen into disuse in the Greco-Russian tradition?


The position of protopsaltis (first chanter) in the Greek tradition may well be a tonsured position, though I would need to confirm this.

[Andreas Moran]

Policemen in England are called 'Bobbies' because the police force was founded by Sir Robert Peel, and Bobbie, of course, is the diminutive of Robert. The police here still do not carry guns. (Do I get a prize for going furthest off topic?)

[Olga]

Maybe no prize, Andreas, but you beat me to it with your "bobby" post. :)))

[Nina]

So when I go to England, if I am pulled over by police (I am never pulled over in US, but in Europe they do pull me over), I have to say instead of 'hello sir": "hello bobby!" Or is that colloquial?????

[Andreas Moran]

Why should they pull you over? That hasn't happened to me in 30 years! They can't stop you for nothing. If you are pulled over here, you stay in the car, the police officer comes to you, you wind down the window - in your case, smile sweetly - and say, 'Hello, officer, is there a problem?' So, no, you don't call him 'Bobby'!

[Nina]

Why should they pull you over? That hasn't happened to me in 30 years!

Ah, I forgot! You are waaay north. In Mid/Southern Europe they do not need a fault on your part, if they like to stop you.


They can't stop you for nothing. If you are pulled over here, you stay in the car, the police officer comes to you, you wind down the window - in your case, smile sweetly - and say, 'Hello, officer, is there a problem?' So, no, you don't call him 'Bobby'!

Ok, thanks for telling me.

About your rasson: Do you have a specific place where you put the rasson on and off? Is there a particular routine (in reverent terms - like that about the priest's vestments) to follow if this happens in mid-service? What about those chanters that have the rasson on during the entire service, do they say a prayer, or do they have specific things to do?

[Andreas Moran]

Ah, I forgot! You are waaay north. In Mid/Southern Europe they do not need a fault on your part, if they like to stop you.

In Russia, everybody carries a spare $80 so that when the ДПС (traffic police) stop you - for nothing - you can pay the officer the 'on-the-spot fine'.


About your rasson: Do you have a specific place where you put the rasson on and off? Is there a particular routine (in reverent terms - like that about the priest's vestments) to follow if this happens in mid-service? What about those chanters that have the rasson on during the entire service, do they say a prayer, or do they have specific things to do?

I try to put it on discreetly in the porch and not in church and just after the blessing at the end of the Little Entrance. I take off the rasson after the Gospel. The choir is comprised of nearly all sisters, and maybe one monk, and as members of the Community, they are, of course, in monastic garb anyway. There's no blessing for the Reader's rasson as there is for a server's stikharion.

[Theodoros]

I am one of the chanters at our church. I wear a rasson every service. The proto-psalti is also our Reader. He wears a cassock during the services. Either way, a pastoral blessing is required.

In Christ - Theodoros

[Andreas Moran]

We recently picked up a magazine in a Moscow church which had an article about a young Reader who died, his father being a priest. We learned from the article that a Reader should be buried in a stikharion. My wife optimistically thought there was no need to rush out to buy one.

[Theodoros]

We recently picked up a magazine in a Moscow church which had an article about a young Reader who died, his father being a priest. We learned from the article that a Reader should be buried in a stikharion. My wife optimistically thought there was no need to rush out to buy one.

So, this was why my wife was adamant that I wear one!!

[Yuri Zharikov]

and if one was to be wedded, he would also wear a stikharion on top of the podryasnik

[Theodoros]

and if one was to be wedded, he would also wear a stikharion on top of the
podryasnik

Very interesting!

[Father David Moser]

The sticharion is the proper vestment of the reader. Those who are tonsured readers should receive all the sacraments properly vested (the only exception would be confession). Thus a reader would receive the Holy Mysteries vested in his sticharion, he would be receive the sacrament of Holy Matrimony vested, and of course he would receive Christian burial appropriately vested, etc.

The podriasnik (cassock) and riassa (exorasson) are not "vestments" but rather ordinary "street wear" and thus cannot replace the sticharion.

Fr David Moser

[Andreas Moran]

The sticharion is the proper vestment of the reader.

Oh, dear - haven't got one!


The podriasnik (cassock) and riassa (exorasson) are not "vestments" but rather ordinary "street wear"

I seem to remember seeing a canon that says Readers should be so attired at all times. Well, I'm not going shopping dressed in my podriasnik and riassa! But I might get away with it at the university; we do have a Greek hieromonk with us doing a psychology PhD.

[Yuri Zharikov]

I seem to remember seeing a canon that says Readers should be so attired at all times. Well, I'm not going shopping dressed in my podriasnik and riassa! But I might get away with it at the university; we do have a Greek hieromonk with us doing a psychology PhD.

I have seen the canon too. Before I was tonsured my spiritual father advised me that I am always to wear the podryasnik during the services and when in the presence of a bishop. He also said that it would be a very bad idea to be putting your podryasnik on/off just before entering/after leaving the church as this looks improper to the parishioners and may confound them. So I always try to put it on/take off at home, which means that sometimes I go shopping (or whatever) wearing a podryasnik... you tend to attract a lot of looks for sure.

[Robert Hegwood]

Looks like I'm waking up this thread for a bit.

I've a few questions after reading this thread.

1. I'm a tonsured reader...for not quite a year and until this thread I had no idea that readers were supposed to know how to assemble a service... instead of just knowing how to chant the chanted parts.

If this is the case where does one learn this if those who have put one forward for tonsure have not done more than teach one how to chant? Is there a website...a software program even (for mac and pc) that can guide you in this process?

2. Secondly given the distance I have to travel to Church the only services I have any "working" familiarity with is Vespers and Liturgy..and with the Liturgy, my functional knowledge is limited to what takes place in proximity to the reading of the epistle. I've been present in the Liturgy of course for years...but I've no studied sense of its parts, certainly no knowledge on how to assemble the music and variable bits for a Liturgy. As for feasts, forefeasts, and leavetakings I've no clue as to their rubrics.

3. So to find these things out now I dare say puts me in a bit of a frustrated and embarrasing position. I should know this stuff, but there seems no one handy to teach me (l live 100 miles from my parish) and I am unaware of any reader training resources on-line.

4. I am also a bit ...miffed...disconcerted...to find out that the rubrics say we should be vested on the days we read and take communion as well as having our cassocks on during all services. That is not the practice in our parish except for subdeacons and above...and I'm wishing that it was our practice. Perhaps there is some whole "pride of needing to be right" churning in me a bit...but so far as I'm concerned it seems to me the rubrics (if that's the right word) in these things should be followed as far as one's abilities/resources allow. I understand you can't have a cathedral quality liturgy (that sounds off I know) in a struggling mission parish...you might not have money for much in the way of vestments or many good singers etc. But when a parish can but doesn't then it seems to me an easily keepable requirement is pointlessly set aside...I mean if one has a cassock how hard is it to wear it? If one has vestments that fit all readers then why should not the reading reader vest? And if the canons say tonsured orders should wear their cassocks to church how did this turn into...well not necessarily readers. Indeed this has happened so much in so many places...street cloths have become the "canon" so to speak and for a reader to just show up in his cassock would appear pretentious. It baffles me...and irks me a little to find this out now.

[Andreas Moran]

I sympathise with Robert. But my position is rather different from that of a regular reader in a parish. Notwithstanding my long association with the monastery here, I'm a visitor not a community member and I think I'm asked to read out of courtesy as much as anything. Nor do I know until I'm in church whether I'll be asked to read at all. Obviously, assembling a service in the monastery has nothing to do with me.

[Eric Peterson]

I am a tonsured Reader. I was not vested in a sticharion, however. I wasn't really vested at all, since I was tonsured already wearing a (borrowed) cassock. It could be an Antiochian thing, or one of those bits of liturgical non-uniformity and/or oversight/error. (My feet were never Chrismated either, but Father won't accept that as an excuse for not being able to walk in the way of Christ's commandments.)

[Anthony Stokes]

Looks like I'm waking up this thread for a bit.

I've a few questions after reading this thread.

1. I'm a tonsured reader...for not quite a year and until this thread I had no idea that readers were supposed to know how to assemble a service... instead of just knowing how to chant the chanted parts.

Well, it's a good thing to know, but most of the time the choir director is the one who puts services together, but the reader needs to know the order.


If this is the case where does one learn this if those who have put one forward for tonsure have not done more than teach one how to chant? Is there a website...a software program even (for mac and pc) that can guide you in this process?

The best English source I know of is the "Order of Divine Services" by Peter Fekula & Michael Williams (ROCOR). It's available from St. John of Kronstadt Press - www.sjkp.org. I also just taught a class at my church on church services. I can send you outlines if you send me your email address through a private message. This should help with your next two questions also.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Cyprian (Humphrey)]

Looks like I'm waking up this thread for a bit.

I've a few questions after reading this thread.

1. I'm a tonsured reader...for not quite a year and until this thread I had no idea that readers were supposed to know how to assemble a service... instead of just knowing how to chant the chanted parts.

If this is the case where does one learn this if those who have put one forward for tonsure have not done more than teach one how to chant? Is there a website...a software program even (for mac and pc) that can guide you in this process?

The only things you have to know are what your bishop requires you to know. Don't let other people's opinions add to your burdens.


. Secondly given the distance I have to travel to Church the only services I have any "working" familiarity with is Vespers and Liturgy..and with the Liturgy, my functional knowledge is limited to what takes place in proximity to the reading of the epistle. I've been present in the Liturgy of course for years...but I've no studied sense of its parts, certainly no knowledge on how to assemble the music and variable bits for a Liturgy. As for feasts, forefeasts, and leavetakings I've no clue as to their rubrics.

Nor should you have to under those circumstances.


3. So to find these things out now I dare say puts me in a bit of a frustrated and embarrasing position. I should know this stuff, but there seems no one handy to teach me (l live 100 miles from my parish) and I am unaware of any reader training resources on-line.

Again, don't let other people's opinions upset you. As long as your priest and bishop are okay with your knowledge level, then so should you.


4. I am also a bit ...miffed...disconcerted...to find out that the rubrics say we should be vested on the days we read and take communion as well as having our cassocks on during all services. That is not the practice in our parish except for subdeacons and above...and I'm wishing that it was our practice. Perhaps there is some whole "pride of needing to be right" churning in me a bit...but so far as I'm concerned it seems to me the rubrics (if that's the right word) in these things should be followed as far as one's abilities/resources allow. I understand you can't have a cathedral quality liturgy (that sounds off I know) in a struggling mission parish...you might not have money for much in the way of vestments or many good singers etc. But when a parish can but doesn't then it seems to me an easily keepable requirement is pointlessly set aside...I mean if one has a cassock how hard is it to wear it? If one has vestments that fit all readers then why should not the reading reader vest? And if the canons say tonsured orders should wear their cassocks to church how did this turn into...well not necessarily readers. Indeed this has happened so much in so many places...street cloths have become the "canon" so to speak and for a reader to just show up in his cassock would appear pretentious. It baffles me...and irks me a little to find this out now.

Do what is the norm for your parish/situation. Doing things in an "uber-correct" fashion can be a fall for pride.

It may be interesting to note that the advice that St John of Volokamsk gave about monastic footwear was that a monk should not wear the worst or poorest footwear available, not should he wear the best footwear. He should wear what was average. Sometimes sticking to what is average is the best defence against pride.

But, those are my two kopecks. Feel free to ignore what I've said.

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

Fr Cyprian has made an important point: what is correct in one's local practice is what is blessed by one's bishop. The typikon is a living organism, not to be implemented in a black-and-white fashion based on a rendition of what seems 'absolutely right'. It is a pastoral tool, which the Church's pastors wield to the health and salvation of their flock. Our role, who are not bishops, is to be drawn into that pastoral work.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Michael Astley]

When he receives the Holy Mysteries, he should be attired according to his office (ie - in sticharion)...

This is indeed what I have been accustomed to seeing. Laymen receive the Mysteries as laymen, so remove the stikhar if they are wearing one to serve in the altar, when they make their confession or communion. Those in orders, (even minor orders), receive according to their order, so vest before Communion, Confession, and so forth.

This makes sense to me. In a recent exchange with a protestant correspondent who was asking questions about Orthodoxy, I tried to explain that these offices and traditions within the Church are not human institutions but are part of the life of the communion that is the Church. Receiving the Mysteries vested according to our order within the Body of Christ emphasises the reality of our common life.

It makes little sense to me for somebody who has been ordained to an order and ministry within the life of the Church to approach the chalice as a layman. And I have misgivings about laymen, who have not been ordained to any order, receiving the Mysteries as though they were ordained. But then who am I? If people are being obedient to the authority under which they fall, then I suppose that is enough.


...which he doesn't have to put on until the "Our Father" if he is not serving.

Now this raises some questions for me. I have only ever seen non-concelebrating bishops and priests vest to receive Communion so do not know what the practice would be for subdeacons and readers. Father David, or indeed anybody who knows, how to the practicalities actually work for a reader who is not serving but wishes to confess/receive communion? Does he keep a stikhar with him in the temple and just put it on at the appropriate time? Does he enter the altar to ask for a blessing to put it on at the time of the Our Father? Does he then need to ask a blessing to remove it afterwards? Is it seemly to vest in the body of the temple or is it preferred that this be done in the altar, even though he will need to leave again to actually receive Communion?

Thank you for your help.

In Christ,
Michael

[Olga]

how to the practicalities actually work for a reader who is not serving but wishes to confess/receive communion? Does he keep a stikhar with him in the temple and just put it on at the appropriate time? Does he enter the altar to ask for a blessing to put it on at the time of the Our Father? Does he then need to ask a blessing to remove it afterwards? Is it seemly to vest in the body of the temple or is it preferred that this be done in the altar, even though he will need to leave again to actually receive Communion?


In my longstanding observations, as a layman (and a woman at that!) of Slavic liturgical customs, a reader (tonsured or otherwise) would already have authority to enter the altar area, be it to receive the Epistle book, or to vest. Every church I have had anything to do with has a range of stikharia in various sizes for use by altarboys and readers. The only order of clergy that I am aware of which would be vested in the nave instead of the altar would be a bishop. So I would imagine a non-serving reader would simply enter the altar area, choose a stikharion, be blessed to vest in it, and then receive communion.

The Greek custom I have long been familiar with is that the Epistle is read from the kliros, not in the body of the nave, and I have never seen the reader vested in a stikharion. At most, he would wear a black cassock (I assume if he were tonsured), as would the most senior altarboy (or boys).

I welcome correction on these thoughts if I am mistaken in my understanding.

[Paul Cowan]

At most, he would wear a black cassock (I assume if he were tonsured), as would the most senior altarboy (or boys).

As I am the most senior altar boy in my parish, I do not wear anything of the higher ranks except a robe the color of the "season" as do the other boys with me.

Our readers dress in black cassocks for the entire service if they are serving or chanting. Or else they stay in street clothes and remain in the congregation. I have had to "go get" a reader out of the congregation once since the regular readers were not in attendance and he dressed in his cassock right before the epistle reading.

[Father David Moser]

for a reader who is not serving but wishes to confess/receive communion? Does he keep a stikhar with him in the temple and just put it on at the appropriate time?

Usually I have seen a reader who will not be serving in the service but who will receive, take his stichar, fold it and get a blessing before the service actually begins. He will then don it at the appropriate time (usually during the Our Father).


Does he enter the altar to ask for a blessing to put it on at the time of the Our Father? Does he then need to ask a blessing to remove it afterwards?

If he has not previously taken a blessing, then yes, he should take his stichar, go into the altar and get a blessing. It seems appropriate to get a blessing later to remove it, however, I would follow the serving priest's instructions regarding this.


Is it seemly to vest in the body of the temple or is it preferred that this be done in the altar, even though he will need to leave again to actually receive Communion?

Usually vesting (except for the major clergy) is not done in the altar itself but in the vestry (a room off to the side where all the "supplies" and extra vestments are kept. Only "major" clergy (bishops, priests, deacons) should be vesting in the altar itself (and if there is another place provided for the clergy it is best not to vest in the altar at all.)


Fr David Moser

[Michael Astley]

Olga, Paul, Father David, thank you.

I always appreciate the clarity that I find here. So much of my learning has come as a result of very publicly and very embarrassingly getting things wrong, often in the course of hierarchical liturgies in a full cathedral, when I have the privilege of visiting and serving there. This is humbling, which is always a good thing. However, it does help occasionally to be able to learn from others in a setting such as this, where my ignorance will not be a distraction to others' worship, prayer, and devotion.

Thank you, again.

In Christ,
Michael

[Kris]

Usually I have seen a reader who will not be serving in the service but who will receive, take his stichar, fold it and get a blessing before the service actually begins. He will then don it at the appropriate time (usually during the Our Father).


Bless Father,

Under what circumstances would a reader be fit to take Communion, but not fit to serve?

[Father David Moser]

Bless Father,

Under what circumstances would a reader be fit to take Communion, but not fit to serve?

Not all readers serve all the time - its not so much about being "fit" as it is about logistics.

Fr David Moser

[Robert Hegwood]

Interesting. I've been tonsured a reader for about a year and this is the first I have heard of any of this. In my home parish none of readers wear cassocks or vest for anything. Our subdeacons do though. But at the new mission/ocf where a couple of us readers help we were asked to get cassocks and to wear them when we lead reader's services. I've seen other parishes where this is pretty much the norm too.

I wish traditions like this were not so easily set aside. It seems to me what might begin as an expedience has a way of becoming a habit and in the end something is lost that should not be lost, for which there is no good reason to be lost so far as I can tell.

Anyway threads like this underscore my gratefulness for this site and threads like this. It is an education, and what I've learned here has at least once kept me from being embarrassed in front of my bishop (I come by that naturally enough without adding to it with lacunas in the protocol department)

[Michael Astley]

I wish traditions like this were not so easily set aside. It seems to me what might begin as an expedience has a way of becoming a habit and in the end something is lost that should not be lost, for which there is no good reason to be lost so far as I can tell.

I agree with you entirely, Robert, especially when I learn of certain traditions that are very beautiful indeed, not to mention helpful and edifying.

I also agree with Father David. There are a number of reasons why a reader may not be serving that are not related to questions of fitness. If a reader and his friends/family were to be visiting another parish where he is unknown, it is possible that he would not serve. Similarly if he were going on a pilgrimage where the Liturgy had been organised by a different parish where he is unknown and he just happens to be there. I imagine that there are clergy and minor clergy who do not have a blessing to serve on the New Calendar, in which case they would not serve if they were at a Liturgy served by this calendar. I'm sure there are other reasons, as well.

In Christ,
Michael

[Anthony Stokes]

Interesting. I've been tonsured a reader for about a year and this is the first I have heard of any of this. In my home parish none of readers wear cassocks or vest for anything. Our subdeacons do though. But at the new mission/ocf where a couple of us readers help we were asked to get cassocks and to wear them when we lead reader's services. I've seen other parishes where this is pretty much the norm too.

Robert,
I'm in the OCA also, and I have never seen this either. I have been a subdeacon for over 5 years, and I have never seen this done in the OCA, or the GOA for that matter, but they rarely have subdeacons and their readers/chanters where a riassa type cassock, but often are not tonsured.

Typically, in big OCA hierarchical services, Deacons that are not serving don't even fully vest, but only put on their orarion and cuffs. Subdeacons and Readers not serving usually just wear their cassocks. But, each diocese is different, as Fr. Dn. Matthew has pointed out. In our diocese, our bishop prefers readers and subdeacons to wear cassocks any time at church (although some wear them even more than that).

I'm interested in seeing the canon about this if anyone remembers which one it is. I might just do my own search for it too.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Father David Moser]

I also agree with Father David. There are a number of reasons why a reader may not be serving that are not related to questions of fitness. ...

there is also simply the question of numbers. If there is more than one reader, then there might be a rotation (depending on the parish and the size of the parish). If the reader's primary responsibility is to sing and chant in the choir, or possibly is the choirmaster (rather than serve in the altar) this would be another reason. That's the kind of thing I was thinking about as "logisitics"

Fr David Moser

[Kris]

if he were going on a pilgrimage where the Liturgy had been organised by a different parish where he is unknown and he just happens to be there.

So in this case, would the Reader be expected to call ahead to let the serving priest know that he's coming, so that he could vest for Communion, or could he simply walk up to the chalice wearing his anteri?

[Father David Moser]

So in this case, would the Reader be expected to call ahead to let the serving priest know that he's coming, so that he could vest for Communion, or could he simply walk up to the chalice wearing his anteri?

Anytime anyone (layman, minor or major clergy alike) is going somewhere other than his own parish (with his own priest who knows him) he should make himself known to the serving priest and ask a blessing to receive before just approaching the chalice and putting everyone in a very uncomfortable position. I, personally, would probably not give such a person, who just "appeared" at the chalice without speaking to me first, the Holy Mysteries at that time.

Fr David Moser

[Michael Astley]

Anytime anyone (layman, minor or major clergy alike) is going somewhere other than his own parish (with his own priest who knows him) he should make himself known to the serving priest and ask a blessing to receive before just approaching the chalice and putting everyone in a very uncomfortable position.

This fits what I was told on the day before my Baptism. A priest has responsibility for the Mysteries and for the souls of those receiving them. If he doesn't know me to be Orthodox or to have confessed, then it is his duty to look after my spiritual wellbeing by not exposing me to the Mysteries in my potentially unbaptised state, wallowing in the mire of unrepentant sinfulness. I was told to make the effort to make some contact with a priest before I go to his parish, whether by telephone or e-mail, if I am unknown there. For this reason, my Baptism certificate bears the text in both English and Russian.

Imagine the careful preparation to receive communion, and the prayerful attitude in approaching the chalice all being undone by the embarrassing situation of the priest, confronted with this stranger, having to ask who he is, where he is from, who is his bishop, has he confessed. This happened to me the first time I went to our cathedral in London without having introduced myself. I didn't take umbrage. After all, I could have been anybody, including a militant protestant who approaches the chalice, insisting that my own doctrinal standpoint be accepted in an Orthodox Church, (I know of such a political abuse of the Mysteries in this way by a visitor having taken place in an Orthodox church locally so it isn't as far fetched as it may at first sound).

Pax,
Michael

[Michael Astley]

This fits what I was told on the day before my Baptism. A priest has responsibility for the Mysteries and for the souls of those receiving them. If he doesn't know me to be Orthodox or to have confessed, then it is his duty to look after my spiritual wellbeing by not exposing me to the Mysteries in my potentially unbaptised state, wallowing in the mire of unrepentant sinfulness. I was told to make the effort to make some contact with a priest before I go to his parish, whether by telephone or e-mail, if I am unknown there. For this reason, my Baptism certificate bears the text in both English and Russian.

Imagine the careful preparation to receive communion, and the prayerful attitude in approaching the chalice all being undone by the embarrassing situation of the priest, confronted with this stranger, having to ask who he is, where he is from, who is his bishop, has he confessed.

I just thought I'd highlight the reality of this by pointing out that this happened to me this morning. It was a parish that I have visited pehaps five or six times now, (once as a guardian of the Kursk Root icon) and received communion on each occasion that my visit coincided with a Liturgy. The rector has also seen me elsewhere and recognised me and we have spoken. Because of this, I did not make contact before visiting. However, before this morning, the last time he had seen me was over a year ago, during which time my hair has grown considerably longer and my girth has increased a little. The result is that he did not recognise me, and as I approached the chalice, I was asked my name, who my priest was, and whether I had confessed.

The lesson, I suppose, is to never be presumptuous.

[Michael Astley]

Is there any question of propriety with regard to the decor on an under-cassock where readers are concerned? I have seen plain cassocks and I have seen cassocks with full trimmings, including piping and embroidery on necks, cuffs, and bottom and side. Is there any sort of protocol about who wears what or is it simply a matter of permissible variation, always bearing in mind the purpose of the cassock as being a sign and reminder of humility, obedience, and submission of pride and personal style?

Thank you.

[Paul Cowan]

Is there any question of propriety with regard to the decor on an under-cassock where readers are concerned? I have seen plain cassocks and I have seen cassocks with full trimmings, including piping and embroidery on necks, cuffs, and bottom and side. Is there any sort of protocol about who wears what or is it simply a matter of permissible variation, always bearing in mind the purpose of the cassock as being a sign and reminder of humility, obedience, and submission of pride and personal style?

Thank you.

And don't forget also what the local manufacturer has available. Some have a hard time 'toning down" their products. They too want to give their best go God and they may think this includes all the frills without thinking necessarily what the end user may want.

[Anthony Stokes]

And don't forget also what the local manufacturer has available. Some have a hard time 'toning down" their products. They too want to give their best go God and they may think this includes all the frills without thinking necessarily what the end user may want.

That's true. I've heard that some tailors tend to add more embroidery when they are running behind schedule as an added feature. I don't there think that there are any special rules about the trim.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Olga]

I have seen plain cassocks and I have seen cassocks with full trimmings, including piping and embroidery on necks, cuffs, and bottom and side.

Embellished cassocks must be an American phenomenon. I've never seen one in either Greek or Slavic traditions, or perhaps I'm not moving in the right circles .... ;) Hmmm.

[Paul Cowan]

When we would ask him, 'Elder, what will you do in the event that the Church makes a decision to abolish the cassocks?' he would respond, 'I will restrict myself to seclusion!'

Holy Father Epiphanius Theodoropoulos

Gratefully stolen from the profile of our brother in Christ Moses Ibrahim.

[Anthony Stokes]

Embellished cassocks must be an American phenomenon. I've never seen one in either Greek or Slavic traditions, or perhaps I'm not moving in the right circles .... ;) Hmmm.


Both of my cassocks were made in Russia by the same place, one came with some embroidery on the neck and cuffs, the other did not. They are made from different materials (one is my summer cassock, one for winter), so maybe that's why they are different. But, the tailors that I know of that do embroidery are Russian.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Antonia Colias]

BLESS, FATHER !

My question veers a bit, but seems close enough to include here.

One of my sons is a tonsured reader. He wears his podriasnik at church, whether serving in the altar or not. He will not, however, wear the podriasnik when attending service at another parish. I have told him that I think he should wear it when visiting another parish within our own diocese -- especially when visiting any of the city-area churches within our diocese (where people know him). (He is on the shy side, too, I'll add.)

Our son flatly refuses, however, to wear his podriasnik when visiting a parish of a different Orthodox jurisdiction. His experience with a particular jurisdiction is that the "knowledge level", if that is safe phrase, misleads people into thinking he is an "under-dressed priest."

What advice would you provide this puzzled mother?

Asking your blessing,

Antonia

[Anthony Stokes]

Our son flatly refuses, however, to wear his podriasnik when visiting a parish of a different Orthodox jurisdiction. His experience with a particular jurisdiction is that the "knowledge level", if that is safe phrase, misleads people into thinking he is an "under-dressed priest."

What advice would you provide this puzzled mother?

Asking your blessing,
Antonia

Antonia et al,
I'm not a priest, so I will just add my experience and personal practice, since I not only know you and your son, but am in the same geographic area and diocese.

I wear my cassock anytime I am at a church service in my own jurisdiction (as directed indirectly from the bishop), and at other jurisdictions if there is a pan-Orthodox event going on, and if there will be several other readers/subdeacons from my jurisdiction. Also for church functions that are diocese related or part of a conference or something. I do not usually wear it when going alone to a Greek parish, which I don't do often anyway. One of the main reasons is that 1) the GOA doesn't have very many subdeacons, so they are not used to it. 2) Their priests don't all wear crosses, so occasionally someone might be confused and ask me for a blessing or call me father. 3) when I visited a Greek monastery once, they asked me not to wear it for these same reasons, so I obliged.

The Antiochians tend to have more readers and subdeacons that wear cassocks nowadays, so I might wear it there more often. Of course, what am I talking about? I'm a choir director, when do I ever visit other parishes?

Sbdn. Anthony

[Antonia Colias]

Antonia et al,
I'm a choir director, when do I ever visit other parishes?
Sbdn. Anthony

Answer to riddle: You are allowed a field trip when we consecrate a Metropolitan ! :>)

He's lower-level than you, so ought not to be confusing anybody with his simple, black podriasnik. Nonetheless, he routinely is assumed to be a seminarian (let's obtain that B.A. first !) -- and yes, oddly, once was mistaken for an "underdressed priest" ! (Imagine how nervous that made him feel !)

When we do make it down to Kendalia, which unfortunately is rarely, would they prefer that he attend in "street clothing" ?

This well may be more of a shyness problem than anything else.

I thought that "outsider input" might be useful. I do appreciate yours very much, too.

Antonia

[Father David Moser]

BLESS, FATHER !

One of my sons is a tonsured reader. He wears his podriasnik at church, whether serving in the altar or not. He will not, however, wear the podriasnik when attending service at another parish.
...
What advice would you provide this puzzled mother?

My advice would be for him to do as he is instructed by the priest and bishop to whom he is in obedience. If his priest agrees that he need not wear his podriasnik except when in services at his own parish, then all is well and good. Readers are usually allowed quite a bit of latitude on their attire when not actively vested and so I would guess that it wouldn't be an issue at all for the priest.

Fr David Moser

[Anthony Stokes]

When we do make it down to Kendalia, which unfortunately is rarely, would they prefer that he attend in "street clothing" ?



It was St. Anthony's in AZ where I was visiting, but since Kendalia is an offshoot of there, that might be the case. I think when our Reader from our parish visits Kendalia, he does not take his cassock.

Sbdn. Anthony

[Paul Cowan]

When we do make it down to Kendalia, which unfortunately is rarely, would they prefer that he attend in "street clothing" ?



Antonia,

Have your son call Fr. Dosethios (http://www.holyarchangels.org/)and ask him what he prefers. Be patient as returning phone calls from the monastery in my experience may take a couple of weeks. :(

I missed a three day weekend visit there waiting for permission to come and stay the night. They did not call back until my 3 day vacation was over so I missed the opportunity. Next time, I will plan a month in advance.

[Kris]

and yes, oddly, once was mistaken for an "underdressed priest" ! (Imagine how nervous that made him feel !)


That happened to me a couple of days ago. A man approached me asking me to hear his confession.

I would personally not feel comfortable wearing my cassock in a parish where the people didn't know me.