Discussion from another forum on mortal/venial sins

[Patrick Lee]

It's a Catholic Board, and a "closed" discussion, but here's the link (http://forums.catholic-convert.com/viewtopic.php?t=58354).

At any rate, its OSAS Protestant talking with (I think) a seminarian. Catholic theology, as I understand it and as it seems to be stated, seems to be that Baptism grants you eternal life, but any mortal sin along the way, while it remains unconfessed, condemns you to hell. The protestant makes the point that in this situation, Baptism doesn't seem to do much, if on a periodic basis, you can simply fall away, and the solution is Confession at that point.

I think she has a point, potentially, and would like to understand the Orthodox view of the situation - realizing that I may be looking for a nice Scholastic solution where I shouldn't be.

I'm still a new convert, so there is much I'm still learning. However, from what I've read thus far, it seems that the issue of severity of sin is not so much that any specific sin will necessarily send you to hell, but that the sin draws you away from God and may ultimately take you to a place where you will not end up in heaven. So, my goal in battling sin is twofold - to draw closer to God over time, and to avoid getting into a pattern of behavior that will result in my separating myself from God. Further, after the final judgement, it may/will be the case, that if I did not progress very far spiritually in this life, I will not be able to fully participate in God's Divine Nature.

Is this close, sort of close, totally heretical, or something else?

[Owen Jones]

So far as I know, Orthodoxy makes no distinction between sins, such as mortal sins vs. venal sins. And, likewise, Orthodoxy makes no absolute promise or guarantee of salvation. The writings of the desert fathers would tend to support this, in that there is a constant fear of falling into a state of pride. In Orthodoxy there is no single thing necessary for salvation, since everything is connected to everything else.

Traditionally, I think it is fair to say that there is a fair amount of skepticism regarding salvation outside of the Church, but no absolutism on this issue. And of course we have St. John Chrysostom's marvelous Paschal sermon (which, to be sure, applies only to the Orthodox faithful, but makes no distinction therein). Rather than focus on one event, or one thing, I think Orthodoxy stresses a spirit of repentance, and not some institutional mechanism for salvation. Note the emphasis in the pre-Lenten liturgies on Phariseeism.

What I find most compelling is a view of Orthodox theology as a kind of medical diagnosis and treatment of an illness, vs. that of a quack doctor. Within any proper diagnosis and treatment, there is always concern for the individual patient and how he will react to a specific course of treatment, and an element of experimentation.

[Father David Moser]

So far as I know, Orthodoxy makes no distinction between sins, such as mortal sins vs. venal sins.


Actually, in some of the catechisms you will find that language used, however, if you read carefully, you will see that the theology is such that these words, "mortal" and "venial" are used to recognized the fact that the effects of various sins are different in their intensity and different how they impact the soul - and thus require different treatments of different severity

Fr David Moser

[Patrick Lee]

Thanks for the feedback. Even before converting, I always felt a hesitance to get so dogmatic on this subject. I think one unfortunate outcome of the RC position is that it leads to periodic states of terror. Protestantism, in general, finds that unappealing and inconsistent with hope. I would agree with them, but they unfortunately solve the problem by rendering loss of salvation impossible.

[Kusanagi]

It's a Catholic Board, and a "closed" discussion, but here's the link (http://forums.catholic-convert.com/viewtopic.php?t=58354).

At any rate, its OSAS Protestant talking with (I think) a seminarian. Catholic theology, as I understand it and as it seems to be stated, seems to be that Baptism grants you eternal life, but any mortal sin along the way, while it remains unconfessed, condemns you to hell. The protestant makes the point that in this situation, Baptism doesn't seem to do much, if on a periodic basis, you can simply fall away, and the solution is Confession at that point.

I think she has a point, potentially, and would like to understand the Orthodox view of the situation - realizing that I may be looking for a nice Scholastic solution where I shouldn't be.

I'm still a new convert, so there is much I'm still learning. However, from what I've read thus far, it seems that the issue of severity of sin is not so much that any specific sin will necessarily send you to hell, but that the sin draws you away from God and may ultimately take you to a place where you will not end up in heaven. So, my goal in battling sin is twofold - to draw closer to God over time, and to avoid getting into a pattern of behavior that will result in my separating myself from God. Further, after the final judgement, it may/will be the case, that if I did not progress very far spiritually in this life, I will not be able to fully participate in God's Divine Nature.

Is this close, sort of close, totally heretical, or something else?

There Greek Orthodox do have the difference of sin being mortal and venial.
Even the Holy Fathers in Cyprus have advised my friends on this.
I believe some desert fathers have mentioned this too. the Venial tend to be the sins that occur because of man's fallen nature such as forgetfullness. One's that you might not be aware of doing.

St Basil of Poiana Marului says anything not done in faith to God is a sin so i personally think it is better to confess all sins and not get into the habit to distinguish which sin is mortal or venial because out of inexperience you might make a mistake.