Definitions of fornication

[Terry]

Hello all, I was baptized two days ago, converting to orthodoxy.

I have a major issue.... My husband and I only have a civil marriage, not married in the church. I have begged and begged and begged him to get married in the church sooner, but he said next year , in 2007, he promised that, but everytime i bring it up, we end up fighting about it. This is what i really want with all my heart and soul is to get married in the church and have our marriage blessed by god, I dont want to fornicate no more. but if i refuse him for a year, then what? we will have our marriaged anuled. and I dont want that

I dont know what to do, I cant seperate from him, He has sacraficed so much for me, and he takes good care of me, and we love each other unconditionally with all our hearts and souls.

Trust me, there is no way that i can convince him to marry me sooner in a church, the bottom line is it will be in 2007.

Ive cried and cried about this, I dont like sinning, especially after my baptism and all my sins were washed away.

What do I do?

will God forgive me of all this if I go to confession before the real marriage? how easily is this forgiven?

Terry

[Father David Moser]

Terry,

I presume that the priest who baptized you knew about your situation. Let him handle it. Normally in a situation like yours, the marriage would be performed "in the same hour" (ie. that day or the next) but since your husband is resisting this convention, obviously your priest has made an accomodation for the salvation of your soul. Please talk with him about this and trust him to take care of the spiritual issues.

Fr David Moser

[Terry]

Thank you Fr.

Yes, he asked my husband when we would have a marriage ceramony, and my husband told him, next year, and the priest said, ok, but dont let it wait any longer than you have to.

[Mourad Mankarios]

According to scripture if your union was accomplished prior to your conversion, then you cannot be seen as a fornicator but your union is actually sanctified and blessed by the Lord. However, as soon as your husband is aligned greater with church then there should be some form of formal blessing of the union. This is what St Paul has to say with regard to this matter:

"If any brother has a wife who does not believe, and she is willing to live with him, let him not divorce her. And a woman who has a husband who does not believe, if he is willing to live with her, let her not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband; otherwise your children would be unclean, but now they are holy." (1 Cor 7:12-14)

[Ryan]

According to scripture if your union was accomplished prior to your conversion, then you cannot be seen as a fornicator but your union is actually sanctified and blessed by the Lord. However, as soon as your husband is aligned greater with church then there should be some form of formal blessing of the union.

Since no unions or marriages outside the church are considered to have grace, does this also apply to converts who have simply been "living together" (but who firmly intend on getting married)?

[Mourad Mankarios]

If both individuals are converts then they would both be expected to mutually together receive the mystery of matrimony for their union to be sanctified...However, if only one is a convert then the church makes no such demand. What if the unbelieving spouse refused to marry altogether would the church require a divorce or annulment of the believing spouse? According to Scripture this is not so and also what you say concerning grace is also not quite accurate since according to the passage cited there can be grace in a union outside of the church only in the exceptional circumstance of where an individual was in some form of union prior to their conversion, since the behaviour of the unbelieving spouse is beyond the control of the church or the believing spouse and the believing spouse sanctifies the unbelieving spouse and their union...

[Kris]

Since no unions or marriages outside the church are considered to have grace, does this also apply to converts who have simply been "living together" (but who firmly intend on getting married)?

Peace,

Just because that marriage is not a grace-filled sacrament, it is nevertheless a marriage and therefore not the same as two people merely cohabiting (I think - might be wrong).

In XC,
Kris

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Peace,

Just because that marriage is not a grace-filled sacrament, it is nevertheless a marriage and therefore not the same as two people merely cohabiting (I think - might be wrong).

In XC,
Kris

Yes this is a very important point to understand. Certainly marriage within the Church is a sacrament and therefore has a unique & powerful type of grace for the support of the couple and family.

But this doesn't mean that any kind of marriage outside of the Church has no grace.

Think of the situation which nowadays is common enough where one spouse refuses a Church marriage. The whole marriage is not therefore graceless or cursed. Rather the believing spouse is the one whose responsibility it is to bring grace to the marriage by their Christian love.

All of this takes time to find your way through. But in time and with patience and God's support a fair degree of blessedness can be brought to such a marriage.

The rule in the Church is- be realistic & positive and work with what God gives & allows. Certainly in this situation He isn't then going to add, "and in return you will not have my grace." !

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Terry]

Thanks for your reply, so in conclusion, am I fornicating or not? One priest from canada on a different website told me to actually seperate from my husband!!! can you believe that?

God Bless,


-Terry-

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

One priest from canada on a different website told me to actually seperate from my husband!!! can you believe that?



It is dangerous to look for personal spiritual guidance on an internet forum. Besides the contradictory advice you'll get there's also the important fact that it's your priest who knows you & your situation. So talk to your priest about these things. It's the safest way by far.

In Christ- Fr Raphael