Where are the saints?

[Marie A.]

Dear friends in Christ,
I am not sure that this is the right place for this question. A friend of mine is reading the book, Eastern Orthodoxy through Western Eyes by Donald Fairbain and he talks about the saints. I am not sure of the exact text but he basically says that the saints are not in heaven yet and will not be there until the final judgment. Does anyone know where I can find info about what happens when the saints die and where they do go? I would appreciate any help.
Thanking you in advance,
in Christ -- Marie

[Irene]

Hi Marie, So far I see nobody has answered you. I don't want to give you any false information but I'll give you some quotes I've found....

"Give rest, O God, to Thy servants and establish them in Paradise, where the choirs of the saints and the righteous shine as the stars of heaven. Give rest, O Lord, to Thy servants who have fallen asleep, and overlook all their offenses." Saturday of the Dead (http://www.monachos.net/great_lent/saturday_of_the_dead.shtml)

From the Live of St Salvius:

"One day when Salvius lay in bed, gasping for breath and weakened by a high fever, his cell was suddenly filled with a bright light and the walls seemed to shake. He stretched out his hands to heaven, and as he gave thanks he breathed forth his spirit. The monks, together with his own mother carried his dead body out of the cell with lamentation; then they washed it, vested it and placed it upon a bier. They passed the long night in weeping and singing psalms.

When morning came and all was ready for the funeral, the corpse began to move on the bier. Salvius' cheeks became flushed, he stirred himself as if awakened from a deep sleep, opened his eyes, raised his hands and spoke: "Oh merciful Lord, why hast Thou done this to me? Why hast Thou decreed that I should return to this dark place where we dwell on earth? I would have been much happier in Thy compassion on high, rather than having to begin once again my profitless life here below." .............

As he said this, he wondered whether he should say more or stop with this. He was silent for a while, but the monks begged him to tell them what he had seen. "When my cell shook four days ago," he continued, "and you saw me lying dead, I was raised up by two angels and carried to the highest peak of heaven, until I seemed to have beneath my feet not only this miserable earth, but also the sun and moon, the clouds and stars. Then I was conducted through a gate that shone more brightly than the light of the sun and entered a building where the whole floor shone with gold and silver. The fight was impossible to describe. The place was filled with a multitude of people, neither male nor female, stretching so far in all directions that one could not see where it ended. The angels made a way for me through the crowd of people in front of me, and we came to the place towards which our gaze had been directed even when we had been far away. Over this place there hung a cloud more brilliant than any light, and yet no sun or moon or star could be seen; indeed, the cloud shone more brightly than any of these with its own brilliance. A voice came out of the cloud, as the voice of many waters. Sinner that I am, I was greeted with great respect by a number of beings, some dressed in priestly vestments and others in ordinary dress; my guides told me that these were the martyrs and other holy men whom we honor here on earth and to whom we pray with great devotion. As I stood here there was wafted over me a fragrance of such sweetness that, nourished by it, I have felt no need of food or drink until this very moment."

"Then I heard a voice which said: 'Let this man go back into the world, for our churches have need of him.' I heard the voice, but I could not see who was speaking. Then I prostrated myself on the ground and wept. 'Alas, alas, O Lord!' I said. 'Why hast Thou shown me these things only to take them away from me again? Thou dost cast me out today from before Thy face and send me back again to a worldly life without substance, since I am powerless to return on high. I entreat Thee, O Lord: turn not Thy mercy away from me. Let me remain here, I beseech Thee, lest, falling once more to earth, I perish.' The voice which had spoken to me said: 'Go in peace. I will watch over you until I bring you back once more to this place.' Then my guides left me and I turned back through the gate by which I had entered, weeping as I went."

As he said this, those who were with him were amazed. The holy man of God wept. Then he said: "Woe to me that I have dared to reveal such a mystery! The fragrance which I smelled in that holy place, and by which I have been nourished for three days without food or drink, has already left me. My tongue is covered with sores and has become so swollen that it fills my whole mouth. It is evident 'that it has not been pleasing in the eyes of my Lord God that these mysteries should be revealed. Thou knowest well, O Lord, that I did this in the simplicity of my heart, and not in a spirit of vainglory. Have mercy on me, I beseech Thee, and do not forsake me, according to Thy promise." See full article here. (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/death/stsalvius.aspx)

Another:

"As his monks watched at his deathbed, they were said to have heard the music of the heavenly choirs welcoming him to heaven. So died the blind Breton saint, who had taught in the school in the forest, and who all his life, despite his blindness, had given glory to God." Life of St Herve of Brittany (http://www.britishorthodox.org/saints_dir.php)


Life After Death by St. John Maximovitch (http://www.orthodox.net/articles/life-after-death-john-maximovitch.html) Before the uncovering of the relics of St. Theodosius of Chernigov [7], the priest-monk (the renowned Starets Alexis of Goloseyevsky Hermitage, of the Kiev-Caves Lavra, who died in 1916) who was conducting the re-vesting of the relics, becoming weary while sitting by the relics, dozed off and saw before him the Saint, who told him: "I thank you for laboring with me. I beg you also, when you will serve the Liturgy, to commemorate my parents" -- and he gave their names (Priest Nikita and Maria). "How can you, O Saint, ask my prayers, when you yourself stand at the heavenly Throne and grant to people God's mercy?" the priest-monk asked. "Yes, that is true," replied St. Theodosius, "but the offering at the Liturgy is more powerful than my prayer."

As I know nothing, I offer these quotes and there are many others to be found.

In Christ
irene

[Paul Cowan]

I know nothing other than what my Spiritual Father teaches me. I am hesitant to believe more than what he says as that is the purpose of being my Father confessor. He is responsible and accountable for teaching correctly. I am responsible for what I learn and pass on to others. Forgive me if what I say below is not correct.

I have been taught at the general judgement of which we all undergo at the death of our bodies, we are judged (little j) and sent to Paradise or Hades to await the final Judgement (Big J) in Heaven or Hell.

There is nothing we can do to change our position after teh general judgement other than to pray for others and ourselves that in the final Judgement God will show mercy on us. Because of God's mercy and grace, He can move us from the place of general judgement to the place of final Judgement. ie, Paradise to Heaven or Hades to Hell or Paradise to Hell or Hades to Heaven.

His is the Just and merciful Judgement. I am thankful He is not a solely a "Just Judge" as I would have been sent to a place below hell long ago.

Lord Have Mercy On Me THE Sinner.

Paul