The Way of the Pilgrim - deleted sections

[David Copan]

Today in confession I was told about secret portions of the Way of the Pilgrim that were deemed too controversial and have been cut out of pretty much every version of the book in print. The only full versions are available on Mount Athos or in some of the older versions in Greek. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear Mr Copan,

Welcome to the Community - it's nice to read your first post. No, I've never heard this claim of there having once been controversial sections of The Way of the Pilgrim that were edited out. But that's of course not to say it isn't possible - only that I've not heard of it. I'd be curious to know if others have heard of this before.

INXC, Matthew

[Irene]

I was given a copy of "The Way of The Pilgrim" years ago by a seminarian....
9th printing, first Seabury paperback edition 1965, Seabury Press 815 Second Ave New York, Forward by Walterus Truron, no copyright date that I can find anywhere on the book.

It says simply "Translated from the Russian by R.M. French"

My daughter has a copy which says "A new translation by Helen Bacovcin Foreword by Walter H Cuszej S.J." An Image Book Doubleday 666 Fifth Ave New York (c) 1978

I am very interested to compare the two books, but for me, that's probably going to take a few days.

In Christ
irene

[Father David Moser]

Today in confession I was told about secret portions of the Way of the Pilgrim that were deemed too controversial and have been cut out of pretty much every version of the book in print. The only full versions are available on Mount Athos or in some of the older versions in Greek. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

I have not heard of anything like hthis - but then I haven't heard of everything.

OTOH, what does it matter whether or not there were unpublished portions of a work of fiction. If the work in question is in control of the Church and the alleged parts are not published then it only follows that these alleged "secret portions" are not spiritually beneficial, probably even spiritually harmful and so there is no reason in heaven or in earth to read them - or even desire to read them.

Let's not lose perspective here - "Way of the Pilgrim" is a work of fiction which is used to demonstrate some principles of prayer and the spiritual life. It is not "the writings of the Holy Fathers" nor is it "Holy Scripture" - its a story (albeit one that many have found useful in their spiritual lives- but then many find the concepts in "Lord of the Rings" or "Narina" or the novels of Dostoyevsky spiritually useful; in fact I once knew a monastic who would read Robert Hienlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" once a year because he found it spiritually helpful, go figure).

Fr David Moser

[David Copan]

Well, the priest who told me all this used to live on Mount Athos and he said he heard about it from the Elders there, and so apparently they thought it was spiritually beneficial. It was a section on how when the pilgrim(obviously before he was a pilgrim) and his wife had sex, prayer was destroyed in them because of all the lust involved in a married couple having sex. So I can definitely see how that is both true but also controversial since it could be interpreted many different ways.

Irene- The way the priest made it sound, I am pretty sure there are NO English versions of the book containing that section. The only versions with this section seem to be in Greek, printed a long time ago, and mainly in monasteries.

[Father David Moser]

Well, the priest who told me all this used to live on Mount Athos and he said he heard about it from the Elders there, and so apparently they thought it was spiritually beneficial.

Not obvious at all - perhaps they have withheld it because it would NOT be spiritually beneficial and too prone to misuse an misinterpretation.


It was a section on how when the pilgrim(obviously before he was a pilgrim) and his wife had sex, prayer was destroyed in them because of all the lust involved in a married couple having sex.

Or perhaps the lust involved in that particular character's sexual passion. Or perhaps it is that sex, along with a lot of other things is a passionate activity and any time we become so "wrapped up" in satisfying our passions, our prayer is disturbed - doesn't matter whether it's sex, or eating, or acquisitiveness, or anger, or drinking or ...


So I can definitely see how that is both true but also controversial since it could be interpreted many different ways.

Exactly! If it is something which would cause confusion, then it is best not published.



Irene- The way the priest made it sound, I am pretty sure there are NO English versions of the book containing that section. The only versions with this section seem to be in Greek, printed a long time ago, and mainly in monasteries.

Now this is interesting, since the book was originally written in Russian and so any Greek mauscripts must then be translations, allowing for the possibility that these "deleted sections" are not part of the original, but were later interpolations made by the translator (since they do not seem to exist in Russian, the original language of the story) Thus they may well be additions written in Greek that were never approved by the Church censor and so were never distributed (explaining why they only exist on Mt Athos). This is an important aspect to recall - up until the 20th century (and most of the way into that century) NOTHING was printed by the Church without the approval of the Church censor (usually a Synodal committee or office), unlike today when almost anything can be printed on the internet - or even in hardcopy - that purports to be "Orthodox" but which in reality can also be far from Orthodox teaching. Therefore just because it was written or just because there are copies in some monastic library - that does not mean that they were approved by the Church and thus may well not reflect the teaching and tradition of the Church.

Fr David Moser

[Chrissi]

No David, I never knew that the Pilgrim was supposed to be married, so that is not in my version....Irene

PS Sorry didn't realise it was my daughter that was signed in until I posted!

[David Copan]

Chrissi- No, I think I confused you. I wasn't saying the pilgrim was married while he was a pilgrim, the "Deleted section" was from the early part of the book, when he talks about before he was a pilgrim and he had a wife, who later dies. And THEN he becomes a pilgrim. That part is in every version.

Father David Moser- So, is it heretical to say that sex in marriage is bad because it stirs up passions? That is kind of what I got out of what the priest said about this section. Not that it really applies to me in that sense since I'm not married...And then whatever happened to the church censor? I had never heard of that before. When did we stop having a church censor? Or does he still exist but just isn't always used?

[Father David Moser]

Father David Moser- So, is it heretical to say that sex in marriage is bad because it stirs up passions?

Where did I say anything about "heretical"? To say that "sex is marriage is bad because it stirs up passions" is a statement that must have a pastoral context. By itself, it is easily misapplied, misunderstood and misused and can be detrimental to the spiritual life. Thus, just to say that by itself is not useful. Any passionate activity - be it sex or eating or drinking or anger or... - will cause difficulty in prayer. Marriage gives us a spiritually appropriate avenue for the expression of ths particular passion - just as a modest meal gives us a spiritually appropriate avenue for he passion of eating. Written words must be interpreted and applied (by the spiritual father usually) - that is why our hierarchs are given the graceto "rightly divide the word of truth" - it is their charism and duty to teach. Passages in a book, especially a work of fiction, may be undesirable because they do not teach clearly and so may be excised by the hierarchs (or those to whom they delegate that task) because they are confusing and inappropriate - whether or not something is hereitical, it can still be spiritually damaging and misleading because of its presentation. (Look at what the protestants do with the Bible) Please, don't put words in my mouth.


And then whatever happened to the church censor? I had never heard of that before. When did we stop having a church censor? Or does he still exist but just isn't always used?

Still exists in many places - in North America, because of the jurisdictional confusion, there is no one office of ecclesiastical censor and so often it is not even functioning due to neglect. Also because of the ability of people to self-publish or e-publish there is a lot of neglect to the censor's office - a person can not be prevented from publishing something in error and in many cases today, even the larger Orthodox publishing houses don't bother to submit their potential publications to their diocesan or synodal censor for whatever reason (self will, pride, loss of revenue, whatever).


Fr David Moser

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Originally Posted by David Copan View Post
And then whatever happened to the church censor? I had never heard of that before. When did we stop having a church censor? Or does he still exist but just isn't always used?

The church censer is in the church altar.

It may be difficult to hear but some put bells on it and then it's more easily heard.

We at least never stopped having a church censer.

No even when not used it's still in the altar.

Hope that helps.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Irene]

When did we stop having a church censor? Or does he still exist but just isn't always used?

Are you talking about a man who's specific job is to be the censor rather than a Deacon or the Priest doing the censing? You use the word "he". If there used to be a person whose role in the Church was specifically "Church Censer" I guess that would have been when a there were a lot more clergy and parishioners for various roles?

[Kris]

Are you talking about a man who's specific job is to be the censor rather than a Deacon or the Priest doing the censing? You use the word "he". If there used to be a person whose role in the Church was specifically "Church Censer" I guess that would have been when a there were a lot more clergy and parishioners for various roles?

Hi,

I got the impression he was speaking of censorship and not insence?

In XC,
Kris

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Hi,

I got the impression he was speaking of censorship and not insence?

In XC,
Kris

incense :) of course

[Father David Moser]

incense :) of course

Now I'm incensed that you aren't taking my comments about censor's seriously. This could lead to more serious things - for example when the angry censor concelebrates with someone whose writings have been rejected then you would have the incensed censor incensing the censored incensed priest with incense in the censer. Or something to that effect.

Fr David Moser

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Now I'm incensed that you aren't taking my comments about censor's seriously. This could lead to more serious things - for example when the angry censor concelebrates with someone whose writings have been rejected then you would have the incensed censor incensing the censored incensed priest with incense in the censer. Or something to that effect.

Fr David Moser


See how the Orthodox are able to bring all seemingly disconnected things together...like Antiochians & Alexandrians at Chalcedon (sorry- that's another thread).

Seriously though...

Fr David's original answer was the correct one.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Irene]

Now I'm incensed that you aren't taking my comments about censor's seriously. This could lead to more serious things - for example when the angry censor concelebrates with someone whose writings have been rejected then you would have the incensed censor incensing the censored incensed priest with incense in the censer. Or something to that effect.

Fr David Moser
Very Sorry Father David :( , I missed the second part of your other msg, when marriage and sex are mentioned - I don't usually keep reading, as they don't apply to me. I should have looked further into your message. ...Irene

[M.C. Steenberg]

This could lead to more serious things - for example when the angry censor concelebrates with someone whose writings have been rejected then you would have the incensed censor incensing the censored incensed priest with incense in the censer.

I do believe my brain has just collapsed.

INXC, Matthew