Someone (else) is under attack

[Irene]

I've been sitting looking at this post that I have written thinking "post", "don't post", "post", "don't post".....................

Yesterday, while my daughter battled the city traffic that I couldn't cope with, our passenger became extremely agitated, started shrieking, ear piercing shrieks, and I was afraid they were going to jump from the car or at least distract my daughter and cause an accident in peak hour traffic.

My daughter straight away started praying out loud the "Jesus Prayer" which reminded me to pray so I joined in. I prayed the "Our Father" one of the prayers to the Theotokos and try as I might I just couldn't remember the words to anything else. I prayed, my daughter prayed, and our passenger in the back of the car started singing something in a manner that I felt was meant to blot out the sound of our prayer. I tried to start singing Psalm 34 and couldn't for the life of me get the words out, went back to the Jesus Prayer and then our Passenger said angrily "why don't you guys get a chill pill" I'm not sure exactly what that meant but I kept on praying out loud for most of our trip back (3 1/2 hour round trip).

About two thirds of the way home and our passenger was calm again, requested we stop off for food and we did this. While this person went into a shop my daughter turned to me and said "don't say anything Mummy, it was demons, you can feel them." All I could do was cry because I knew it was.

This young passenger is Orthodox but doesn't go to Church very much, doesn't go to the whole service, is too busy to go to confession and likes to go out party and get drunk with friends.

Today I didn't want, I felt too weak to, but I knew I had to talk to this person, who was completely "normal" again, I talked to them about random things and eventually brought the conversation around to the Church. I told them something that I have seen a few years ago that turned my life around, something that I have never told any one else and they said "Is it normal to see demons, because I see them out of the corner of my eyes?"

Why is this young person under so much attack, or are all Orthodox youth who ignore the Church attacked like this? I have never seen anything like it.

To look at this that I have written I feel, it seems that I have written a fairy story but this did happen yesterday.

I am really worn out from these people who need to talk to me about things I want to ignore, I am worn out by my weakness and lack of faith and I don't remember ever asking this for myself before, (but I do have a faulty memory), but could you please pray for me a weak and cowardly sinner because I need strength.

In Christ
irene

I will continue to get prayers said for this poor young person but I can't identify them here.

[Peter Farrington]

Dear Irene

I will certainly add you, your daughter and this person known to God to my prayers.

May God have mercy upon you and may His angels have watch over you.

Peter

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I've been sitting looking at this post that I have written thinking "post", "don't post", "post", "don't post".....................

Yesterday, while my daughter battled the city traffic that I couldn't cope with, our passenger became extremely agitated, started shrieking, ear piercing shrieks, and I was afraid they were going to jump from the car or at least distract my daughter and cause an accident in peak hour traffic.

My daughter straight away started praying out loud the "Jesus Prayer" which reminded me to pray so I joined in. I prayed the "Our Father" one of the prayers to the Theotokos and try as I might I just couldn't remember the words to anything else. I prayed, my daughter prayed, and our passenger in the back of the car started singing something in a manner that I felt was meant to blot out the sound of our prayer. I tried to start singing Psalmcouldn't for the life of me get the words out, went back to the Jesus Prayer and then our Passenger said angrily "why don't you guys get a chill pill" I'm not sure exactly what that meant but I kept on praying out loud for most of our trip back (3 1/2 hour round trip).

About two thirds of the way home and our passenger was calm again, requested we stop off for food and we did this. While this person went into a shop my daughter turned to me and said "don't say anything Mummy, it was demons, you can feel them." All I could do was cry because I knew it was.

This young passenger is Orthodox but doesn't go to Church very much, doesn't go to the whole service, is too busy to go to confession and likes to go out party and get drunk with friends.

Today I didn't want, I felt too weak to, but I knew I had to talk to this person, who was completely "normal" again, I talked to them about random things and eventually brought the conversation around to the Church. I told them something that I have seen a few years ago that turned my life around, something that I have never told any one else and they said "Is it normal to see demons, because I see them out of the corner of my eyes?"

Why is this young person under so much attack, or are all Orthodox youth who ignore the Church attacked like this? I have never seen anything like it.

To look at this that I have written I feel, it seems that I have written a fairy story but this did happen yesterday.

I am really worn out from these people who need to talk to me about things I want to ignore, I am worn out by my weakness and lack of faith and I don't remember ever asking this for myself before, (but I do have a faulty memory), but could you please pray for me a weak and cowardly sinner because I need strength.

In Christ
irene

I will continue to get prayers said for this poor young person but I can't identify them here.


This isn't an exceptional case by any means. One can for example also see disturbing behaviour in the smallest tots nowadays like some sort of nervous possession. Even in the church these little ones are often non-stop yelling and running around without a moment's rest while their harried parents desperately try to calm them down.

Naturally one looks to how the children are raised by their parents and the environment at home. But it often seems the case that there is no clear one to one relationship. Even many of the parents with a very pious home have children like this.

Other things could be having an effect but one thing is that we- all of us- are providing an environment which caters to selfishness in a way we are barely conscious of. For example some things that recently struck me.

On an airflight recently in the seats behind me was a young family with a small little girl perhaps three years old or so. For the whole flight this little girl was grand standing for all who could hear. On first impulse one wanted to smile and think how the little girl was just a little ham. On the other hand though it was striking how this episode showed that from earliest infancy now we are raising our little ones to regard themselves as stars on the centre of a non-stop theatre stage called life. There's some sort of 'innocent selfishness' in this.

A second example was watching on TV a mother recently speaking at her soldier/son's funeral after being killed in Afghanistan. The format is now so normal we hardly give it any thought. But basically this has become a very public expression that put the death into a context of personal emotions which in turn serve to either make the death legitimate or not. Obviously such a death is very difficult & even traumatic. But the point is that the focus in all of this has by this point almost been reversed from let's say WWII where meaning was found in the public sphere through the sacrifice of oneself for a larger moral cause. Now it seems meaning is to be found on a much more local and emotional stage.

These two small pieces of a much larger picture point to a world which caters much more to selfishness than we are aware of. Of course there are the obvious things like a certain life style the children were raised with in the home. But there's something else not so obvious that I think is having an even more powerful effect because it's seen as being good and harmless. In a strange way even a kid raised in a completely crazy home has more of a chance because they can react to it and say it's wrong. This 'innocent selfishness' though is now so taken for granted that very few even notice or question it. So it has more effect.

Selfishness is not only sinful; it has a destructive effect on us like shattering a mirror. Turn what was once seen by society as wrong into a social virtue and virtual environment and we start really going over the edge even if we have no obvious 'anti-social life style'.

Disturbed behaviour some of it dramatically so and some even demonic is now widespread from infants upwards. One would like to restrict this say to infants to teenagers or young people but this has now begun to spread into those much older than this. No- there's no fairy story to any of this- it's very real and it's very serious.

God give us all the peace and wisdom we need to heal others. God give us that our own instability becomes a means of having compassion for others. God give us to see that they are us. God give us to grow in Thy humility so that we can worthily enter into the hell of others.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[John Charmley]

I am really worn out from these people who need to talk to me about things I want to ignore, I am worn out by my weakness and lack of faith and I don't remember ever asking this for myself before, (but I do have a faulty memory), but could you please pray for me a weak and cowardly sinner because I need strength.

In Christ
irene

.

Dear Irene,
First: you, your daughter and this young person known to God are all now in my prayers;

Second: the fact you need more strength than you have does not make you either weak or cowardly. From what you say you actually showed a very great deal of courage and fortitude; it sounds terribly frightening, and I can only say that if I had been in your position, I hope I would have shown such strength. It does sound as if the Jesus Prayer helped you.

Third: I am glad you felt you could post it; your friends here welcome the chance to be whatever help they can be, and to add you to their prayers.

Can I offer the following Anglican prayer?

Our Lord Jesus Christ,
present with us now in his risen power,
enter into your body and spirit,
take from you all that harms and hinders you,
and fill you with his healing and his peace.
Amen.

In Christ,

John

[Irene]

How silly of me of course God knows their name! :) Thank you all so much I feel so much more hopeful today.

At the time I was so frightened and only my daughter's prayers refocused my thoughts in the right direction, thank God that she insisted on going with me!! What a gift she is, what a gift you all are to me THANK GOD! :)

It made no sense whatsoever at the time but now I am starting to understand. I am going to try and get to Church Saturday and take our young friend with me. Sunday, maybe we can take them again. In the meantime I have some prayers to do. :)

In Christ
irene

[Irene]

Ps Thank you John Charmley for reminding me that I still do have family who are believing Christians, My Aunt and Uncle are very involved in their Anglican Church, they are such lovely people.

[Irene]

This isn't an exceptional case by any means. One can for example also see disturbing behaviour in the smallest tots nowadays like some sort of nervous possession. Even in the church these little ones are often non-stop yelling and running around without a moment's rest while their harried parents desperately try to calm them down.


Dear Father Raphael, bless,

I have been saddened at the running around and screaming of children at Church, but it's not for me to say anything (I think), it got so bad at once that a Deacon stopped chanting for a little while to get back his concentration. When my children were little and we were attending the Nun's Church a visiting man*see post script* said to me in amazement "Orthodox children are so good, so quiet, they stand/sit through a service with hardly a sound".

I remember the man saying that to me. I remember that I hardly ever had to tell my children to be quiet, if they had to go outside I would say to them "you can't run around - it is Church time" and they didn't. I'd been thinking I was so blessed with such good children, (and I am) but today I remembered what that man said to me and it wasn't only my children that were good and quiet, it was every child that was at that Church.

At the nun's Church where I've been a few times lately I have been able to concentrate very well because all the children stayed quiet. It's been lovely.

My daughter said to me once "I loved going to Church when I was little" and I beamed with happiness at this and then she brought me back down to earth and said "you use to always give us a treat after Church", .... ah well it worked. :)

In Christ
irene

**PS**While working outside I overheard some children getting in trouble for being naughty and suddenly realised I had better make myself clear about something.

The visitor to Church was not an Orthodox man, I can't remember what Church he said he belonged to - he was just impressed that children could stay quiet and relatively still for a service that was a bit longer (about 2 hours) than what he was used to. Children can do a lot more than we give them credit for.

[John Charmley]

How silly of me of course God knows their name! :) Thank you all so much I feel so much more hopeful today.

At the time I was so frightened and only my daughter's prayers refocused my thoughts in the right direction, thank God that she insisted on going with me!! What a gift she is, what a gift you all are to me THANK GOD! :)

It made no sense whatsoever at the time but now I am starting to understand. I am going to try and get to Church Saturday and take our young friend with me. Sunday, maybe we can take them again. In the meantime I have some prayers to do. :)

In Christ
irene

Dear Irene,
I am so glad that you feel more hopeful today - you will have been in many prayers, and the power of prayer is so wonderful. Your daughter's instinctive reaction was, I think, a great credit to her - and to her mother. :)

These trials have in them lessons which we can only pray that we might discern.

You and yours remain in my prayers. There is a good Anglican prayer based firmly on Psalm 91 which you might know, or like to know:


Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High,
and abides under the shadow of the Almighty,
Shall say to the Lord, 'My refuge and my stronghold,
my God in whom I put my trust.'
For he shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
and from the deadly pestilence.
He shall cover you with his wings
and you shall be safe under his feathers;
his faithfulness shall be my shield and buckler.
You shall not be afraid of any terror by night,
nor of the arrow that flies by day;
Of the pestilence that stalks in darkness,
nor of the sickness that destroys at noonday.


I pray it goes well over the next few days.

In Christ,

John

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

At the nun's Church where I've been a few times lately I have been able to concentrate very well because all the children stayed quiet. It's been lovely.

My daughter said to me once "I loved going to Church when I was little" and I beamed with happiness at this and then she brought me back down to earth and said "you use to always give us a treat after Church", .... ah well it worked. :)

In our parish at least I also notice a cultural difference- the children of the new Russians are generally speaking more quiet- even when they wander around the church (which all of our children do at times without too much restraint). I'm not too sure why this is so. That's why yesterday I was speculating that the craziness lies in different directions than we generally look.

For example does a clearer sense of right & wrong in the home: and especially that self-expression is not an absolute right, give the child more peace?

How about setting before the child from the first moments of being able to grasp this: that the most important thing to learn is how to consciously & morally choose rather than run after impulse? Does this give them more peace?

This naturally leads to openly leading the child in an ascetic direction where self-control and eventually the higher virtues such as active charity and self-sacrifice are conveyed. Is the child more peaceful in this kind of home than in that of 'do your own thing'?

And how about a peaceful 'authority figure' in the household that provides the child with these choices; is there something inherently stabilizing for a child in this that otherwise leaves his/her consciousness like a never-setting bowl of jello?

Just a few things to think about.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Irene]

In our parish at least I also notice a cultural difference- the children of the new Russians are generally speaking more quiet- even when they wander around the church (which all of our children do at times without too much restraint). I'm not too sure why this is so. That's why yesterday I was speculating that the craziness lies in different directions than we generally look.

For example does a clearer sense of right & wrong in the home: and especially that self-expression is not an absolute right, give the child more peace?

How about setting before the child from the first moments of being able to grasp this: that the most important thing to learn is how to consciously & morally choose rather than run after impulse? Does this give them more peace?

This naturally leads to openly leading the child in an ascetic direction where self-control and eventually the higher virtues such as active charity and self-sacrifice are conveyed. Is the child more peaceful in this kind of home than in that of 'do your own thing'?

And how about a peaceful 'authority figure' in the household that provides the child with these choices; is there something inherently stabilizing for a child in this that otherwise leaves his/her consciousness like a never-setting bowl of jello?

Just a few things to think about.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Dear Father Raphael bless,

(Firstly I'll just say that we didn't get our young friend to Church but I am not despondent I have faith today.)

Secondly, on reading your post from yesterday I recalled my Church experience of this morning............

Open gates and a white arch, with an Icon on the Mother of God at the top, step through these gates and like so many places where there are Orthodox Churches you get an immediate sense of peace. To the left you see a footpath that leads to an old Church in need of paint and new floor coverings, even new picture hooks. That is the old nun's Church and currently is the English speaking parish of St John the Baptist Skete.

If you don't take the left path, if you walk straight ahead down the tree lined driveway you are heading towards the side door of the nun's newer Church with the blue onion dome/cupula peeking out through the shade of the trees.

Currently my children take the left path and I walk straight ahead.

Today, yet again, I was grateful to the parents of the young children and babies and how well they quieted them. A father stood with his toddler son to the right of me and another father with his daughter stood to the left and somewhere in the Church behind me were other families with young children. The only reason I can tell you they were there was that they went to all the icons when they arrived at Church and they went to the cup later.

The father with the toddler boy to my right kept gently encouraging his child to look to the front of the Church. The little fellow wanted to wiggle about like all children but kept stopping and looking up at his father. Every now and then the child would let out a little noise and the father would quiet him by whispering a barely audible "Tschhh". Once the father slipped silently out the side door and must have had a word to the boy and they were back again. This was all so quiet that it could have disturbed no one and I wouldn't have noticed at all if they had not been right next to me.

"You have a child? Do not allow time to work harm; let him be illumined in infancy, and dedicated from his youth to the Spirit." ... St. Gregory the Theologian

I think sometimes it helps if a parent refuses to speak in Church, just uses quiet signals to let a child know that they must behave. You can talk to a child and explain things before and after Church and they do understand from the earliest age. From the time my children were toddlers driving time was also Church talk time. It is when I explained to them what I knew of each of the subjects within Church life. They always listened intently and asked questions at the end. Because we have lived a fair way from Church and a fair way from relatives we used to get quite a bit of driving/talk time.

Some people say that my children were calm and quiet**(see ps) because I am a quiet and calm person. That is something that I have not always been. Calmness is something you have to work on, to this day I work on it, after all somewhere the Church Fathers said something about where there is anger and disquiet there is also the evil ones stirring up the trouble. If you feel anger bubbling up you really do need to start praying for help straight away. My mother would tell me to count to 10 but saying the Jesus prayer works much faster in.

All these things I tell my children, that when they have their own babies, start straight away, get them use to the rule "no running around during Church time". It is not cruel, if you could look at the lovely faces of the calm children at the nun's Church today you could see that they were perfectly happy and their calm happy parents probably reward them with a lot of love afterwards instead of tired grumpy parents saying get to your room.

Anyway, when I went back to the car my children were already waiting for me and I commented on what a lovely peaceful service it was yet again. My daughter said to me that in order to hear the service at the other Church, in the end she stood outside away from people and children who were being noisey. When those same people took their children outside my daughter went in again so she could properly hear the sermon.

It is so sad, could you imagine what people would say to me if I gave them advice on how to keep children calm?

My God-mother used to catch a bus to Church. When western and Orthodox Easter Friday fell on the same day she used to lecture the people on the bus about how they should be going to Church and not going to the "Royal Easter Show" which was held nearby. I'd say everyone on the bus thought she was a little insane.

I think I should always pray before I post anything at all, I tell myself I must, but usually I only cross myself and mutter a quick Jesus Prayer. I don't want to offend anyone, I can't even get the message across to my own relatives, but maybe there is someone that will read this message that will understand what I am saying and with God's help have a more peaceful life.

In Christ
irene

**PS: I should have added by the Grace of God who granted me this peace and quiet

[John Charmley]

Dear Father Raphael bless,

(Firstly I'll just say that we didn't get our young friend to Church but I am not despondent I have faith today.)



I think I should always pray before I post anything at all, I tell myself I must, but usually I only cross myself and mutter a quick Jesus Prayer. I don't want to offend anyone, I can't even get the message across to my own relatives, but maybe there is someone that will read this message that will understand what I am saying and with God's help have a more peaceful life.

In Christ



Dear Irene,

Would you permit me to say that you do get your message across, and that many of us feel blessed reading your posts. I like to think that ray of light in your last posted image is heading straight at you.:)

I shall continue to pray for your young friend, but he could not be in better company, I am sure.

In Christ

John

[Panayiotis]

Dear Irene & Fr. Raphael,

I find your thoughts on and experiences of children's behaviours in the church quite interesting - they simply make me think that my own children are to all probability possessed!

with my love,
Panayiotis

[Irene]

I thought I would give an update to everyone and thank you all again for your prayers and I am sorry for forgetting to thank you but I am always grateful.

Our young friend's life goes on in a manner that is more than disappointing but I still have faith thanks to your prayers......

(1) I managed to get our friend to Church last week and I could notice a distinctive easing of their tensions.

(2) A very sad incident occurred, this young person who has always been a lover of all animal life no matter what form that life takes, lost their dearest tiny pet bird in a terrible incident that was a direct result of having a lot of drunken people in their home acting in a careless manner. This has broken this poor young ones heart. Today we buried the dear little bird under a yellow rose bush. This poor young person said to me "I killed my baby, it's all my fault"; but after we talked long about this incident; the result was a longing to go back to Church, to stop being around people who drink a lot and to stop drinking and to go to the Church Camp coming up at the end of the year.

I know that what I long for won't happen straight away but the seed is in their heart and growing a little every day.

In Christ
irene

[Peter Farrington]

Dear Irene

That is wonderful news and must be a great encouragement to you.

May the Lord continue to use you to draw this person back to Himself and may He richly bless you for your love and kindness

Peter

[John Charmley]

Dear Irene,

Amidst the bad news, it may be that something good will come. Sometimes a signal is needed before those under attack rally against the Evil One.

I continue to pray for your young friend, and for those who have to watch their suffering.

The ways of God are beyond our understanding. As a wise man once wrote: 'God is love and the world is what it is - explain that!'

In Christ,

John

[Nick Michalopoulos]

Irene do not abandon this girl, there ways we can help her.Take her to a healing church services,next get a Priest to read over her and annoit her with holy oil,next do Repentance with Priest and take Holy Communion every week at church every sunday take her,tell her to pray every day.Irene bring the priest home to her home to bless her home and bedroom.Irene has to change her sinful life and theyll go away.Live for God and his commandments and her life will change forever amen.

[Adrian Matthews]

Dear Irene,

I've been away from the board for some time and have missed this thread until today....praying for you, your family and your friend.

I'm a member of an Anglican contemplative prayer community.

The first prayer below is one of our community prayers which I am praying for you, your family and your friend.

Our Lord stand with you

Around you and within you.

Protect you and guard you

Sustain and uphold you

Guide you, walk with you,

Empower you and enliven you

Breathe into your heart the fire of His Love.

Amen.

The second is a prayer of protection for the end of the day. It has elements of Saint Patrick's breastplate within it...May Our Lord make these things a reality in the heart and home of your friend...and protect you and your daughter as a family as you come alongside him/her (?) in prayer support and guidance ministry.


A prayer of protection at the end of the Day.

Almighty Father,

Protector of all those who call upon you from the heart,

May your presence fill this our home with light and peace

Drive far from here all darkness and snares of the enemy,

Protect and deliver us us by your Right Hand,

May your Holy Angels dwell among us,

May Your Holy Spirit dwell in us,

May we stand in Christ as He stands in us.

May your Glory overshadow this place and may the Hosts of Heaven watch over us.

Christ within us, Christ without us, Christ above us, Christ below us, Christ before us, Christ behind us, Christ to the Left and Christ to the Right.

Oh God our Saviour, Redeemer and friend,

Stand with us

and within us

at this day's end.

Amen.

Love and Blessings

Fr Adrian.