Stephen
26-10-2006, 12:13 AM
Greetings in Christ,
I have been reading, re-reading and then reading again certain essays (http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.19.en.jesus_christ_the_life_of_the_world.01.ht m) written by Fr. John S. Romanides. I am having a hard time understanding one item that keeps coming up in Romanides' work, that of the membership of the Body of Christ. This section below (and found in other essays also) clearly says that one must have unceasing prayer of the heart to be part of the body of Christ. Is this correct and if so I have a few more questions after this section:
"This baptism in the Spirit which results in the gift of tongues, and which normally is accompanied with the charisma of prophecy, is evidently the origin of chrismation, the mystery by which one becomes a member of the Body of Christ and a temple of God. For St. Paul the gift of tongues seems to be the minimal requirement for membership in the Body of Christ. It is the foundation not only of prophecy, but of all charismata. Below those who speak in tongues are the private individuals (ιδιώται) and those lacking in faith (άπιστοι). They are neither members of the body of Christ, nor charismatics. The ιδιώται have a special place in the assembly and say amen at the proper times during prayers (I Cor. 14, 16).
The fact that they say amen to thanksgiving prayers means that they were probably baptised by water and were awaiting the coming of the Holy Spirit in their heart, i.e. the gift of tongues, and may have participated in eucharistic communion as the apostles had also done before Pentecost. They evidently were the baptised laymen of the apostolic community.
The άπιστοι, the lackers of faith, are evidently catechumens of pagan background who could not be handled like Jews. Jews were still considered as faithful so long as they did not completely reject the Lord of Glory made flesh.
Those with the charismata in I Cor. 12, 4- IO (which charismata include the διακονίαι and ενεργήματα listed, as is clear in I Cor. 12, 28-31) and those with the charismata in these latter verses are all members of the clergy listed according to spiritual gifts, but not strictly according to liturgical function and ordination. They are called directly by God, who gives the gin of praying by tongue after proper preparation by a spiritual father. Paul says that the Corinthians may have many teachers In Christ, but not many fathers. I gave birth to you in Christ by means of the Gospel,, (I Cor. 4, 1415). However, Paul thanks God that he baptised none of the Corinthians except for a few (I Cor. l, 14, 16). This means that Paul gave birth to them in the realm of the charismata of which speaking or praying in tongues is the foundation. In other words, the charismata are products of being baptised in the Holy Spirit and the sign of having become a member of the Body of Christ. "For also in one Spirit we all have been baptised into one body... and we all drank in one Spirit" (I Cor. 12, 13). This is clearly the baptism of the Holy Spirit. From all that follows, the Body Christ includes only those who have been thus baptised.
Like in Acts, so in Paul, speaking in tongues is a fundamental sign of being baptised in the Spirit. But in I Cor. 12, 10 and 12, 28, 30 γένη γλωσσών- kinds of tongues - at first sight seems to be detached from the higher charismata, giving the impression that the Church can do without them. However. the statement "all do not speak in tongues, (I Cor. 12, 30) does not mean that the higher charismatics do not, but rather that the ιδιώται and άπιστοι do not, as is clear in I Cor. 14, 16, 23, 24. When Paul lists those placed by God within the Church, he begins with the apostles in first place and ends with the γένη γλωσσών(kinds of tongues) in the last place (I Cor. 12.28). The ιδιώται are neither included here, nor in the ordering of the assembly in I Cor. 14, 26ff. The reason for this is that they do not yet have the gift of the Holy Spirit praying unceasingly in them and therefore have not been placed by God in the Body of Christ."
If Romanides is correct then water baptism in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as well as partaking in the Eucharist do not make you a member of the Body of Christ. Perhaps not even placed by God within the Church.
More questions:
1. I read elsewhere in Fr. Romanides' work - but I can't locate it to post - where he asserts that Theosis does not come to those who are "working" for it. If this is correct - added with the requirements of unceasing prayer in the heart and Baptism of the Holy Spirit - is it safe to say that I am not part of the Church even though I have been properly baptised and receive the Eucharist?
2. If Theosis can't be achieved by 'working' for it - is it wrong headed to have become Orthdox partly because one wants to somehow try to achieve Theosis? If I understand Fr. Romanides, it seems to me that working to attain Theosis is a sure way NOT to attain it!
Any comments on these items would be greatly appreciated. I am quite confused.
God Bless,
Stephen
I have been reading, re-reading and then reading again certain essays (http://www.romanity.org/htm/rom.19.en.jesus_christ_the_life_of_the_world.01.ht m) written by Fr. John S. Romanides. I am having a hard time understanding one item that keeps coming up in Romanides' work, that of the membership of the Body of Christ. This section below (and found in other essays also) clearly says that one must have unceasing prayer of the heart to be part of the body of Christ. Is this correct and if so I have a few more questions after this section:
"This baptism in the Spirit which results in the gift of tongues, and which normally is accompanied with the charisma of prophecy, is evidently the origin of chrismation, the mystery by which one becomes a member of the Body of Christ and a temple of God. For St. Paul the gift of tongues seems to be the minimal requirement for membership in the Body of Christ. It is the foundation not only of prophecy, but of all charismata. Below those who speak in tongues are the private individuals (ιδιώται) and those lacking in faith (άπιστοι). They are neither members of the body of Christ, nor charismatics. The ιδιώται have a special place in the assembly and say amen at the proper times during prayers (I Cor. 14, 16).
The fact that they say amen to thanksgiving prayers means that they were probably baptised by water and were awaiting the coming of the Holy Spirit in their heart, i.e. the gift of tongues, and may have participated in eucharistic communion as the apostles had also done before Pentecost. They evidently were the baptised laymen of the apostolic community.
The άπιστοι, the lackers of faith, are evidently catechumens of pagan background who could not be handled like Jews. Jews were still considered as faithful so long as they did not completely reject the Lord of Glory made flesh.
Those with the charismata in I Cor. 12, 4- IO (which charismata include the διακονίαι and ενεργήματα listed, as is clear in I Cor. 12, 28-31) and those with the charismata in these latter verses are all members of the clergy listed according to spiritual gifts, but not strictly according to liturgical function and ordination. They are called directly by God, who gives the gin of praying by tongue after proper preparation by a spiritual father. Paul says that the Corinthians may have many teachers In Christ, but not many fathers. I gave birth to you in Christ by means of the Gospel,, (I Cor. 4, 1415). However, Paul thanks God that he baptised none of the Corinthians except for a few (I Cor. l, 14, 16). This means that Paul gave birth to them in the realm of the charismata of which speaking or praying in tongues is the foundation. In other words, the charismata are products of being baptised in the Holy Spirit and the sign of having become a member of the Body of Christ. "For also in one Spirit we all have been baptised into one body... and we all drank in one Spirit" (I Cor. 12, 13). This is clearly the baptism of the Holy Spirit. From all that follows, the Body Christ includes only those who have been thus baptised.
Like in Acts, so in Paul, speaking in tongues is a fundamental sign of being baptised in the Spirit. But in I Cor. 12, 10 and 12, 28, 30 γένη γλωσσών- kinds of tongues - at first sight seems to be detached from the higher charismata, giving the impression that the Church can do without them. However. the statement "all do not speak in tongues, (I Cor. 12, 30) does not mean that the higher charismatics do not, but rather that the ιδιώται and άπιστοι do not, as is clear in I Cor. 14, 16, 23, 24. When Paul lists those placed by God within the Church, he begins with the apostles in first place and ends with the γένη γλωσσών(kinds of tongues) in the last place (I Cor. 12.28). The ιδιώται are neither included here, nor in the ordering of the assembly in I Cor. 14, 26ff. The reason for this is that they do not yet have the gift of the Holy Spirit praying unceasingly in them and therefore have not been placed by God in the Body of Christ."
If Romanides is correct then water baptism in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit as well as partaking in the Eucharist do not make you a member of the Body of Christ. Perhaps not even placed by God within the Church.
More questions:
1. I read elsewhere in Fr. Romanides' work - but I can't locate it to post - where he asserts that Theosis does not come to those who are "working" for it. If this is correct - added with the requirements of unceasing prayer in the heart and Baptism of the Holy Spirit - is it safe to say that I am not part of the Church even though I have been properly baptised and receive the Eucharist?
2. If Theosis can't be achieved by 'working' for it - is it wrong headed to have become Orthdox partly because one wants to somehow try to achieve Theosis? If I understand Fr. Romanides, it seems to me that working to attain Theosis is a sure way NOT to attain it!
Any comments on these items would be greatly appreciated. I am quite confused.
God Bless,
Stephen