Mindset

[Anthony]

A little linguistic question (hence in this section rather than any more doctrinal one). I am a bit uncomfortable with the word "mindset", which seems to be becoming popular, I think as a rendering of the Greek "phronema". To me this word in ordinary English has mainly negative connotations, and I could not imagine it in a positive or neutral context until I came across it recently on some Orthodox web sites from across the Atlantic. So my question is, could this be a dialectal difference between British and American English, or is it just a personal idiosyncracy? I would be interested in any impressions.

Anthony

[Peter Farrington]

As an English person I don't have a problem with the word 'mindset' and would happily use it.

It suggests to me an attitude of mind which is fixed, for good or bad, and which predetermines a persons reponses to situations, questions, issues etc etc. On the one hand it could describe a narrowness of thought, on the other it could describe a stability in holiness and virtue. It depends what the predisposition is towards.

So it can be good or bad.

I hope I have a missionary and ecumenical mindset that predetermines or colours my reactions and responses.

Peter

[Father David Moser]

As an American, the word mindset seems to be neutral - it simply denotes the "set of the mind" one's outlook on the world or one's basic framework for interpreting events and experience - not unlike the German "Weltanshauung" Everybody has a mindset so it is like having a head or a leg or a soul... Not good, not bad, just is.

Fr David Moser

[John Charmley]

Gentlemen,

As with so many composite words in the English language, it is a useful one because it can be read at a number of levels, ranging from the neutral one mentioned by Father David to the less neutral one of a set mind which will not move.

In this, it has a utility, but there is no necessary bad reading of it. The French mentalite catches something of what is meant, without the risk of a derogatory meaning.

In Christ,

John

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

A little linguistic question (hence in this section rather than any more doctrinal one). I am a bit uncomfortable with the word "mindset", which seems to be becoming popular, I think as a rendering of the Greek "phronema". To me this word in ordinary English has mainly negative connotations, and I could not imagine it in a positive or neutral context until I came across it recently on some Orthodox web sites from across the Atlantic. So my question is, could this be a dialectal difference between British and American English, or is it just a personal idiosyncracy? I would be interested in any impressions.

Anthony

The way I have seen phronema translated is usually 'mind of the Church'. I'm not sure if this is an exact translation but is meant to get across the idea of how the Church has a way of seeing which is reflected in Her entire life.

Following along from what Fr David has written the weakness of using 'mindset' is that usually this means 'a point of view'; something which 'mind of the Church' seems the opposite to.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Peter Farrington]

Dear Father,

From a UK use of English I think that mindset has a much stronger sense than point of view, in that it suggests a fixed attitude of mind, which as John describes, may be neutral or more liable to criticism.

Someone who insists on something without being willing to compromise could be commended or criticised depending on what they are insisting on. This is more of the English sense of mindset.

I agree entirely with you that it doesn't really reflect the idea of 'the mind of the Church'.

Peter

[Anthony]

Thank you for these replies. My initial hunch about dialects doesn't seem to be correct, though I will try to trace its development when I get time. At any rate I am reassured to hear that those who use the word do not mean quite what I thought they meant.

Anthony

[Peter Farrington]

Hi Anthony,

Well it depends what you thought people meant. :)

Peter

[Anthony]

Well it depends what you thought people meant. :)


Basically, phronema.

(At last I have discovered how to format a smiley :).)

[Owen Jones]

My understanding of phronema is that it points to a way of life in which wise action has become a natural thing to do. Effortless, if you will. It is an active principle, not simply a fixed way of looking at things. It suggests that holy living is more than just an act of the will.

[Peter Farrington]

You are surely right.

I think that there is a world of difference between 'put on the mind of Christ' and 'do the things Christ tells you to do'.

Peter

[Anthony]

My understanding of phronema is that it points to a way of life in which wise action has become a natural thing to do. Effortless, if you will. It is an active principle, not simply a fixed way of looking at things. It suggests that holy living is more than just an act of the will.

Yes, that is a good summary. (Sorry, I was in a hurry earlier, I owed people a better explanation.) My concern was that people were trying to capture the idea of phronema with a word that to me at least meant something narrow, a "fixed way of looking at things" at best.

Anthony

[Tanya Hoadley]

A little linguistic question (hence in this section rather than any more doctrinal one). I am a bit uncomfortable with the word "mindset", which seems to be becoming popular, I think as a rendering of the Greek "phronema". To me this word in ordinary English has mainly negative connotations, and I could not imagine it in a positive or neutral context until I came across it recently on some Orthodox web sites from across the Atlantic. So my question is, could this be a dialectal difference between British and American English, or is it just a personal idiosyncracy? I would be interested in any impressions.

Anthony

Hi Anthony,

I believe that the negative connotation of mindset is really a subtle programming in the American culture related to the concept of being open-minded. Our society is deluged with a sort of propaganda that open-mindedness is a necessary attribute if one is to be thought of as intelligent, compassionate and at the very least civil.

Apparently the word mindset is fairly modern. It doesn't appear in my 1876 edition of Webster's, nor the 1946 edition. I had to look it up online. (Perhaps I need a new dictionary:rolleyes:) The definition I found of mindset is, "a habitual or characteristic mental attitude that determines how you will interpret and respond to a situation." Definitely not open-minded.

Hope this is of help.

In Christ,
Tanya

[Anthony]

I believe that the negative connotation of mindset is really a subtle programming in the American culture related to the concept of being open-minded. Our society is deluged with a sort of propaganda that open-mindedness is a necessary attribute if one is to be thought of as intelligent, compassionate and at the very least civil.

Dear Tanya,

This is certainly an interesting thought. I don't question that this programming has been going on for a long time, and not only in America. In sharing my problems with the use of "mindset" I was not trying to promote the dubious kind of open-mindedness you are referring to. I agree with what those who use it in an Orthodox context are trying to say (if I understand it correctly); I am just not comfortable with the word itself, especially if it is intended to translate "phronema".

I actually suspect that the opposite has happened with this word, and that its connotations have changed from purely negative to more positive - on which more below.


Apparently the word mindset is fairly modern. It doesn't appear in my 1876 edition of Webster's, nor the 1946 edition. I had to look it up online. (Perhaps I need a new dictionary:rolleyes:) The definition I found of mindset is, "a habitual or characteristic mental attitude that determines how you will interpret and respond to a situation." Definitely not open-minded.

I also noticed that it is not in my (old) OED, which does indeed suggest that it is a neologism. A quick web search turned up a disproportionate number of Orthodox sites (which is itself interesting), but apart from that it seems to have originated as a technical term in a number of fields (military, commercial) where it refers to a kind of corporate inertia which prevents the right decisions being made. Then, however, it is also found in the names and promotion material of some organizations, which suggests that its popular meaning has switched to something more positive.

To check that it is this way round, I did a quick search of the British National Corpus, which is a very large collection mainly from the 70's and 80's. It occurred very rarely, but the hits I did get all had the negative connotations I have described. I don't know what this proves, probably nothing, or maybe just that my English has failed to move with the times....

In Christ,
Anthony

[Peter Farrington]

Hi Anthony

No, I don't think your English is behind the times.

Personally if I were using the word, and I can't think of when I have done, then I would use it in a more negative sense of someone who was so set in their ways in a closed sense that they were unable to think outside the box. Their responses would be fixed to any particular stimulus.

Peter