Impediments to the priesthood?

[Andrew James]

Greetings in the Lord!

I was wondering if anybody could tell me what exactly are the impediments to one wanting to enter into the priesthood?

In Christ,
Andrew

[Fr Seraphim (Black)]

Dear Andrew,

Certainly you will receive proper advice regarding this very important question from other members such as Fr. David Moser and Fr. Raphael.

In the monastic life, of which I am most familiar, there are several canonical impediments. But it would seem to me from my personal experience that the presumption that one is worthy to be a priest, is the greatest impediment.

Pondering the exhortations of St. John Chrysostom 'On the Priesthood', I am left trembling at the majesty of this vocation.

I pray this simple beginning will join the host of others far more qualified to speak on this matter.

[Andrew James]

Greetings in the Lord, Seraphim!

You are certainly right about what you say. But yes, canonical impediments are what I am most interested in. Since I can find very little information anywhere on them.

In Christ,
Andrew

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Greetings in the Lord, Seraphim!

You are certainly right about what you say. But yes, canonical impediments are what I am most interested in. Since I can find very little information anywhere on them.

In Christ,
Andrew


Canonical impediments to the clerical orders are living in state of serious ongoing moral sin (eg crime, serious addiction), having been previously divorced, or a past serious crime. To this one should add disturbed behaviour.

Most of this in other words relates to the moral/spiritual state of the candidate. And because of this the advice and blessing of both ones spiritual father/ parish priest & bishop are necessary.

A last point is that there is nowadays some disagreement about how one's past if one was not Orthodox (ie if one is a convert) should be seen as a canonical impediment or not.

For all of these reasons if the desire for the priesthood arises in ones heart it is very important to discuss this with ones' spiritual father.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Andrew James]

Bless, Father!

Thank you for your reply.

I was told that those who have had sexual relations before marriage can never enter the priesthood. Is this true?

In Christ,
Andrew

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Bless, Father!

Thank you for your reply.

I was told that those who have had sexual relations before marriage can never enter the priesthood. Is this true?

In Christ,
Andrew

There are canons to this effect. But this is exactly an example of where getting the advice of ones' spiritual father & bishop is important.

I forgot to mention in my last post that another canonical impediment is physical infirmity.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Fr Seraphim (Black)]

Dear Andrew,

Forgive me for once again approaching this issue from a monastic perspective, but this is certainly true in Orthodox monasticism, though I do know of some, where economia has been excercised.

On the Holy Mountain I have never met a priest who had known a woman and proceeded to Holy Orders.

For those 'in the world' once again you will need to rely on the words of Fr. Raphael or Fr. David.

I notice that you live in Canada, you are welcome to e-mail me off-line and I can give you Bishop Seraphim private e-mail.

Glory to God for all things.

[Andrew James]

Greetings in the Lord!

Thank you both for your answers!

I have emailed my spirtual father my questions. But I was wondering if anybody could link me to a site that lists the cannons?

Thank you Seraphim, but I actually have Bishop Seraphim's email already.:)

In Christ,
Andrew

[Scott Pierson]

Canonical impediments to the clerical orders are living in state of serious ongoing moral sin (eg crime, serious addiction), having been previously divorced, or a past serious crime. To this one should add disturbed behaviour.

I had a child outside of marriage when I was 19 would that prevent me from ever becoming a Priest? I wasnt a Christian at the time doesnt becoming Orthodox make us a new person and wash away the sins of the old life ?

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I had a child outside of marriage when I was 19 would that prevent me from ever becoming a Priest? I wasnt a Christian at the time doesnt becoming Orthodox make us a new person and wash away the sins of the old life ?

This is the sort of thing there is no agreement on. And really this is proper since this comes down to a question of the personal pastoral and spiritual direction one receives.

This is why apart from the general question these issues need to be taken up with one's priest/ spiritual father & bishop. Ultimately only they, aided by prayer & discernment can decide such things.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Kris]

I had a child outside of marriage when I was 19 would that prevent me from ever becoming a Priest? I wasnt a Christian at the time doesnt becoming Orthodox make us a new person and wash away the sins of the old life ?

Hi Scott,

I believe your baptism washes away any past sins you may have committed; and so I don't believe this would prevent you from ever becoming a priest, provided you are repentant.

Ultimately, the decision lies with your Bishop and whether or not he feels you would be suitable.

When Pope St. Leo the Great asked God if all his sins were forgiven, he was told all except the sin of ordaining unworthy priests. As such, it is not a decision your Bishop would make lightly; but since this happened before your Baptism, I see no canonical problem.

In XC,
Kris

[Robert Hegwood]

Just what are the formal impediments?

Which ones are pretty much set in stone and which ones are open to the discretion of the Bishop?

For example, I'm pretty sure being divorced (even before one is Orthodox) is an iron clad impediment, but a struggle with SSA and active involvement with its associated lifestyle, while generally an impediment, with sufficient evidence of repentance might be overlooked in an economia as has been the case with a well know late much beloved hieromonk.

Personally I would think tattoes in some cases could prove an impediment...espcially very prominant ones.

[Paul Cowan]

[QUOTE...but a struggle with SSA and active involvement with its associated lifestyle,...QUOTE]

Did you mean SAA? If so, there are 12 step programs in place for most all addictions for clergy as well as laymen. Of course, as stated many times above, a spiritual father must be consulted.

If I ever am given a blessing to be a monastic, I will never be permited to hold a higher office because of my past based on what was said above. Not that I would welcome one. "draw near in fear and trembling".

By God's grace and mercy only, I might have a toehold on the back 40 of Heaven if I keep my nose clean from here on out.

Lord have mercy on me the sinner
Paul

[Olga]

If I'm not mistaken, the SSA that Robert refers to is "same-sex attraction", i.e. homosexuality.

[Robert Hegwood]

Yes SSA, not SAA...what is SAA?

That said I'm not trying to start a conversation on SSA per se...just I have seen it bandied about as an impediment in other places, so that even the tendancy even if never acted upon is treated as an impediment. Yet if this is true then it must also be a matter of pastoral discretion since St. John of San Francisco indicated that he desired Fr. Seraphim Rose to become a priest. Yet Fr. Seraphim before becoming Orthodox had not just that attraction, he lived that lifestyle, but apparently his repentance was of sufficent quality and depth that St. John considered him worthy to be a priest. From what I can tell he was correct in his judgment . So this seemed to me a good example of a general impediment that might not in all particulars be so if a Bishop felt there were other mitigating considerations.

[Paul Cowan]

Hi Robert:
SSA = same sex attraction
SAA = sex addicts annonymous

Too much alphabet soup in the world.

Paul

[Fr Aaron Warwick]

The washing away of one's sins through baptism seems rather insignificant in relation to impediments to ordination. For example, suppose an Orthodox Christian divorced, repented, went to confession, received absolution, and communed every week for 20 years. Are his sins washed away? Of course they are. Is he eligible to be a priest? Of course not. The simple notion behind the impediments seems to me that the priest should be the cream of the crop.

As Fr. Raphael pointed out, there is a difference of opinion today between jurisdictions as to whether one of these impediment sins committed before converting to Orthodoxy should count against a candidate for ordination. Actually, at a recent SCOBA meeting, there was discussion about the need to express conformity of opinion between the Archdioceses.

Aaron

[Kris]

I have a question related to this topic:

Do the canons prohibit from entering the priesthood someone married to a non-Chalcedonian?

Apologies if this post should have been made in the EO/OO thread.

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I have a question related to this topic:

Do the canons prohibit from entering the priesthood someone married to a non-Chalcedonian?

Apologies if this post should have been made in the EO/OO thread.


It had become so natural to hear that a married Orthodox priest must be the husband of a faithful & practicing Orthodox wife that I was a bit surprised to not find any actual canons in The Rudder about this.

I suppose it may come down to pastoral wisdom and a bishop's discretion but I think it would be shocking to hear of someone who was ordained when their wife was either not Orthodox or was not practicing any more.

Of course this is different though from when the wife leaves her priest-husband. In that situation, at the discretion of the bishop and/or spiritual father, the priest may keep serving as a priest.

About an EO-OO situation & the priesthood. There may well already be examples of this for all we know But if the priest husband was EO & the wife OO then more than likely the sacramental situation for the wife was already dealt with either when they were married or before.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Kris]

About an EO-OO situation & the priesthood. There may well already be examples of this for all we know But if the priest husband was EO & the wife OO then more than likely the sacramental situation for the wife was already dealt with either when they were married or before.


Your blessing Father,

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by the "sacramental situation for the wife" being dealt with?

Do you mean that if the OO wife is permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist in the Orthodox Church - which the joint agreements between the two Alexandrian Popes permits in the case of Greek-Coptic marriages - then her "sacramental position" is acceptable and her Orthodox husband can be ordained to the holy priesthood?

Thanks

In XC,
Kris

[Peter Farrington]

I have asked a question on a Coptic Orthodox forum about whether anyone knows of any mixed clergy (priests or deacons) marriages in Egypt.

After the feast I will ask the same question on some Syrian forums, in the Middle East I mean, and will see if anyone knows of the case occuring there.

Peter

[Gregorios]

Greetings in the Lord!

I was wondering if anybody could tell me what exactly are the impediments to one wanting to enter into the priesthood?

In Christ,
Andrew

There are 3 categories of impediments to ordination:
1) Heresy
- to be ordained one must hold to the Orthodox Faith this rules out any adherence to beliefs condemned as heretical by the Orthodox Church.

2) Immoral Life
- to be ordained one must be holy in one's walk of life

3) Ecclesiastical status
- to be ordained one's ecclesial status (one's clerical rank, marital status, etc.) must allow for ordination

When reading the corpus canonum one can usually assume that an offense for which an ordained clergyman can be deposed is also an impediment to ordination for a candidate to ordination. The bishop of the candidate for ordination is the one to decide whether or not he is going to apply oikonomia and allow the ordination to go through anyway. The corpus canonum is not intended to be "law" as secular law or as a replacement of OT-law; in fact if it were Christ would be a failure (as Fr Alexander Rentel hammered into us this semester). Canon law seeks to heal what is ailing, to fix what is broken, and redeem what is lost. The meaning of canon law is best defined (again as Fr. Alex said) in Trullo 102 (canon 102 of the Council in Trullo).

Gregorios

[Andrew James]

I was wondering what the essence of canonical impediments to the priesthood is?

For example are the canons to prevent one from entering the priesthood who simply has a poor moral character or does it go deeper than that? Are your past sins like fornication, masturbation etc. stains left on you that prevent you from ever being able to worthily perform the Divine Liturgy?

[Andrew]

I was wondering what the essence of canonical impediments to the priesthood is?

For example are the canons to prevent one from entering the priesthood who simply has a poor moral character or does it go deeper than that? Are your past sins like fornication, masturbation etc. stains left on you that prevent you from ever being able to worthily perform the Divine Liturgy?

I think it's both... the writers of the canons were of lofty spiritual vision and could see things like this; the stain of sin on the heart of man, the long effects of various passions, and the disturbing outgrowths of various passions rooted in the heart. They want all priests to be stainless, pure, dispassionate, and without reproach for any one thing in their past conduct (or, their conduct after Holy Baptism in the case of St. Augustine, St. Cyprian, etc.)

I think this is a good argument for baptizing converts - if they have an impediment from past sin, it is washed away in baptism, and virtue is strengthened through the growth of their baptismal grace in the life of the Church.

[Abraham Ghattas]

"They want priests to be pure and stainless"

This comment in my opinion seems to show that those ordained to the glorious priesthood are to be perfect. All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God, so how can we require those ordained to be of this amazing status. I'm not saying than any one should be ordained, but I do not think that past sins even if they were in the Orthodox faith from birth should be a hindering to their ordination. No one will ever be worthy of the priesthood. If ordinations are prevented based on fornication, masturbation, murder, etc. should they not be prevented from any other sin. As all sin is emnity with God. I think a beauty of the priesthood is the fact that God in his greatness chooses weak individuals for this divine calling. Is not God's power perfected in man's weakness? I agree that guidance from a starets and a Bishop is important and situations vary from person to person, but past sins which were fully repented, confessed, should not be a hinderance to the priesthood. Anywho, it is an interesting topic, and I would love to hear more opinions.

Love never fails

[Christopher Dombrowski]

Gender would definitely be one of them.

[Michael Astley]

Canonical impediments to the clerical orders are living in state of serious ongoing moral sin (eg crime, serious addiction), having been previously divorced, or a past serious crime.

To anybody who knows...

To what extent do such impediments, specifically divorce, apply to the minor orders? I know the actual application will be in the bishop's discretion but I'm just asking the general question.

In Christ,
Michael

[Eric F.]

I would like to become a reader or sub-deacon at some point. I have no desire to the priest-hood. I was baptized in a heterodox confession, quickly lost faith, engaged in drug abuse and debauchery with women, and did not become serious about Orthodoxy until about two years ago. As far as purity is concerned, look at St. Augustine! He was quite the virile young man wasn't he? He served well!

[Olga]

I would like to become a reader or sub-deacon at some point. I have no desire to the priest-hood. I was baptized in a heterodox confession, quickly lost faith, engaged in drug abuse and debauchery with women, and did not become serious about Orthodoxy until about two years ago. As far as purity is concerned, look at St. Augustine! He was quite the virile young man wasn't he? He served well!

May I suggest that you discuss your inclinations to the tonsured positions you have mentioned to your priest. :) I may be but a woman, but I can say with great certainty that Orthodoxy is pastoral, not juridical. Never forget that, on your Orthodox baptism/chrismation, which corrected and completed your heterodox baptism, you cast off the "old man" of your past heterodox life, and became a "new man". All who have been baptised into Christ, have clothed themselves in Christ. Never let yourself forget this.

[Father David Moser]

I would like to become a reader or sub-deacon at some point. I have no desire to the priest-hood.

Ah well, here is something that is an issue. It doesn't really matter whether you want to be a reader or a priest, what matters is whether the bishop wants you to be a reader or a priest. One of the basic requirements of the Christian life is to set aside what "I want" and accept instead what God gives. If God, through His Body (that is the Church) has called you to any position within the Church, then it will happen whether or not you "want" it. OTOH, if you assert your desires and try to push your way into a particular position because of your own will, then it will be nothing but tragedy.

I never wanted to be a priest - in fact I "ran away" from the priesthood twice that I know of (well I know now because of what other clergymen told me, but I didn't know then). Finally I was ordained, not because I wanted to be a priest but because no matter what I tried I couldn't get out of the way. I didn't get what I wanted, but I accepted what God gave. One of the Optina elders (I think it was Ambrose, but I'm not sure) said that the key to happiness in this life is to learn to want what God gives.

Fr David Moser

[Subdeacon Joseph Gingrich]

A vocation literally is a calling. Are you being called? Also, if you are to be set aside not even a bishop can stop the will of God as a priest once told me. St John of San Francisco ordained two divorced and remarried men to the priesthood because marriage doesn't exist outside of the Church canonically. It is only of recent times that Orthodox have been allowed to marry those outside of the ranks of the Church. Also, these protestant clerics were baptized first and therefore all previous sin was removed and these men were justified in the sight of God. So you have a daughter. This is wonderful and God's blessing in your life. Being a father is a blessing and nothing prohibits a man from being a father and set aside in the Church. Also, there is a canon or interpretation which states that those divorced before baptism can be ordained. It slips me currently but I do remember covering it in Canon Law last year in seminary.

[Father David Moser]

A vocation literally is a calling. Are you being called?

It is always important to remember that such a calling is not personal or something inside you - it usually comes from the Church (in the person of your bishop or perhaps your priest). The Church (in the person of the priest or bishop) calls you - you do not inform the Church of your calling. Even if you do "feel" a calling, it still must be confirmed by the Church. If it is not, then perhaps it is not a "calling" you feel, but a temptation.

Urging caution in ambition,
Fr David Moser

[Subdeacon Joseph Gingrich]

Fr. David offers good advice which should be heeded. Especially concerning ambition.

Vocation comes from the Latin word vocare which means to call. In the Church it is a call given by God to a soul. The vocation is the response to the call. This will either be encouraged or discouraged by your parish priest and affirmed or rejected by your bishop. However, the call comes to your soul. It is your vocation to God in response to his vocare. While your priest and bishop can encourage you to be set aside into the ranks of the clergy, and you can do this out of obedience only, it is also important that you hear a vocare and respond with your vocation too. All of mankind has the vocation to join the Church for example. Sadly, most do not hear the vocare. While someone can tell you to get baptized and be a Christian, it is not the same as when you know from the depths of your heart that God has called you to those living waters. The same can be said of a calling to serve the Church in the tonsured and ordained ranks. If you feel a call talk to your priest and spend time with your bishop if it is possible.

[Subdeacon Joseph Gingrich]

To anybody who knows...

To what extent do such impediments, specifically divorce, apply to the minor orders? I know the actual application will be in the bishop's discretion but I'm just asking the general question.

In Christ,
Michael

Dear Michael,

The same canons apply to the minor orders with divorce. However, what does matter is whether the marriage occurred before your baptism. Canon 17 of the Apostles states: "Whoever has entered into two marriages after baptism, or has possessed himself of a concubine, cannot be a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, or anything else in the Sacerdotal List." Interpretation: "No matter how many sins a man has committed before baptism they cannot prevent him from taking holy orders and joining the clergy, since, and so believe, Holy Baptism washes them all away."

[Eric F.]

Ah well, here is something that is an issue. It doesn't really matter whether you want to be a reader or a priest, what matters is whether the bishop wants you to be a reader or a priest. One of the basic requirements of the Christian life is to set aside what "I want" and accept instead what God gives. If God, through His Body (that is the Church) has called you to any position within the Church, then it will happen whether or not you "want" it. OTOH, if you assert your desires and try to push your way into a particular position because of your own will, then it will be nothing but tragedy.

I never wanted to be a priest - in fact I "ran away" from the priesthood twice that I know of (well I know now because of what other clergymen told me, but I didn't know then). Finally I was ordained, not because I wanted to be a priest but because no matter what I tried I couldn't get out of the way. I didn't get what I wanted, but I accepted what God gave. One of the Optina elders (I think it was Ambrose, but I'm not sure) said that the key to happiness in this life is to learn to want what God gives.

Fr David Moser

I suppose I'm a bit mystified as to why it would be a temptation to want to serve in a particular order. St. John Maximovitch, for example, wanted to stand for the truth and serve the church. So, perhaps I wasn't clear in expressing my conviction to serve. I feel a calling to work in that capacity and my priest has put me to work in the choir. When the readers cannot attend Divine Liturgy, he has me do the reading. He approached me, we came to a mutual agreement, and he said we are waiting for the Bishop to show up around this November or December for the annual visit. So, that's where I stand.

[Subdeacon Joseph Gingrich]

I suppose I'm a bit mystified as to why it would be a temptation to want to serve in a particular order.

While I would never presume to speak for Fr. Moser I will offer you a few words of insight. A vocation could be a temptation, but that doesn't mean it is. All of the laity have a vocation in the Church because we are a Royal Priesthood. You feeling that you have a vocation to ordained ministry is good thing because all Christians are called to minister the good news of the Messiah. Now this calling must be discerned inside yourself with the guidance of your spiritual father and in conjunction with your bishop. Christians are called to marriage, or they are called to monasticism for example. What is critical in the discernment is who is calling you and why are you being called. Work openly and honestly with your spiritual father. Hide nothing from him and trust in God.

[Father David Moser]

St. John Maximovitch, for example, wanted to stand for the truth and serve the church.

When St John was a hieromonk, teaching in the seminary in Serbia, he was summoned to the Synod as a candidate for the episcopacy. He met an acquaintance on the way an explained where he was going and why - but then added, "but it's a mistake - they are looking for some other hieromonk John". After he met with the bishops on his way home, he met the same person who asked how his meeting went and he became very distraught saying, "Oh, its worse than I thought, they didn't make a mistake". Yes St John wanted to serve the Church, but he did not tell God that he was called to be a bishop, rather he served the Church in whatever capacity God provided for him - he had no personal "calling" to be ordained but only the calling of the Church.


I feel a calling to work in that capacity and my priest has put me to work in the choir. When the readers cannot attend Divine Liturgy, he has me do the reading. He approached me, we came to a mutual agreement, and he said we are waiting for the Bishop

Now see you are doing exactly what I described - you submitted your desire to the Church in the person of the priest and you do the work that he gives you. You are both waiting for the bishop to submit to his will. Nothing wrong with that.

Fr David Moser

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Dear brothers & sisters,

Keep in mind that all things ultimately are vetted through one's spiritual father/parish priest and events themselves. We must make ourselves sensitive to whatever occurs on this score not over analyzing what it means in particular except to watch where it leads or does not lead us. This last we must become especially sensitive to taking it as God's will for us at least for the time being.

In the Risen Christ- Fr Raphael