Hypatia

[Giovanni]

I want to start a discussion about HYPATIA.
What happened with her? Is it true that St. Cyril of Alexandria ordered to slaughter her and if so why?
There is an UNESCO Institution, "women for science" which has been entitled to her her,
http://www.womensciencenet.org/ ,
they say that HYPATIA "lived lived in a period during which the Roman Empire was converting to Christianity and the sciences were considered heretical." .... "She refused to convert and to renounce to her ideas and in March 415 she was brutally assassinated." By inspiration of Cyrillus.
I strongly doubt that this is the truth, but an official Institution, an ONU Institution says so.
What could be the real truth?

[John Charmley]

I want to start a discussion about HYPATIA.
What happened with her? Is it true that St. Cyril of Alexandria ordered to slaughter her and if so why?

Dear Giovanni,

Welcome to Monachos!

The allegations against St. Cyril are ancient ones, often put by his enemies. The fairest assessment I know is in J. McGuckin, St. Cyril of Alexandria: The Christological Controversy : Its History, Theology, and Texts (1994).

He points out how heated the atmosphere was in Alexandria in the 5th century, and how often both Christians and Pagans resorted to violence. There is no doubt that Hypatia was murdered in brutal and shocking circumstances, but there is every reason to doubt that St. Cyril had anything to do with it. Of course, since the Imperial authorities recognised him as the head of the Christian community, and since the Imperial Governor and St. Cyril were on bad terms with each other, the Governor held Cyril responsible for the acts of his community - hence the later confusion.

I am sad, but hardly surprised, that UNESCO should be peddling such misinformation. Someone might have stopped to ask why the Orthodox and the Catholic Churches would recognise a murderer as a saint. It doesn't help that many people take their information from Gibbon's Decline and Fall, because, as a sceptic, Gibbon took a great dislike to Cyril, and so many later writers have followed his lead.

Have a look at McGuckin and make up your own mind.

Hope that helps.


In Christ,

John

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

I want to start a discussion about HYPATIA.
What happened with her? Is it true that St. Cyril of Alexandria ordered to slaughter her and if so why?
There is an UNESCO Institution, "women for science" which has been entitled to her her,
http://www.womensciencenet.org/ ,
they say that HYPATIA "lived lived in a period during which the Roman Empire was converting to Christianity and the sciences were considered heretical." .... "She refused to convert and to renounce to her ideas and in March 415 she was brutally assassinated." By inspiration of Cyrillus.
I strongly doubt that this is the truth, but an official Institution, an ONU Institution says so.
What could be the real truth?


There are two parts really to this:

i) the alleged anti-scientific stance of the Roman Empire once it became mostly Christian.

ii) St Cyril of Alexandria's role in the death of Hypatia.

so let's take them in this order.


i) the Roman Empire (after a certain point often referred to as Byzantium) was not anti-scientific. On the contrary it kept and refined the classical education of ancient Rome including the sciences and philosophy.

The Church was more cautious about philosophy than science. Many great saints such as Gregory Palamas show evidence of their knowledge of science in their writings.

ii) Hypatia was killed at the hands of a Christian mob, not as a scientist but rather as a neo-Platonist philosopher who was one of the leading critics of the Alexandrian church. Christians pulled her from her carriage and dragged her into the church, possibly in order to force her into accepting the Gospel. (p 13 Intro by J A Mcguckin to St Cyril's ON the Unity of Christ).

So, not that it makes it any better, but she was killed as a pagan philosopher apparently engaged in active verbal criticisms of the Church, not as a scientist.

As for St Cyril's role in this although after an investigation into what had occurred he was reprimanded by the Imperial Court he was not actively involved in the incident.


I would say then that what we see here is much more just one incident in a whole period of adjustment within the Roman Empire between the pagan world & Christianity. At times there was conflict as in this incident in Alexandria but actually this was remarkably rare when it's considered that a whole world view was being challenged by the Church. Most often there was a peaceful enough transition.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Giovanni]

Well, I can say that I was shocked by the UNESCO Institution, I think that they acted without any consideration, there are many authors and many original texts, it is not right and proper to consider only Gibbon who had a very particular view and didn't verify as he should have the original texts.

In my own view they are extremely offensive, to the extreme of making necessary a law suit for diffamation.

Remember that Socrates was a cytizen very respectful of LAWS.

Anyhow, I am writing a paper on Hypatia, and your reference will help me.

[John Charmley]

Well, I can say that I was shocked by the UNESCO Institution, I think that they acted without any consideration, there are many authors and many original texts, it is not right and proper to consider only Gibbon who had a very particular view and didn't verify as he should have the original texts.

In my own view they are extremely offensive, to the extreme of making necessary a law suit for diffamation.

Remember that Socrates was a cytizen very respectful of LAWS.

Anyhow, I am writing a paper on Hypatia, and your reference will help me.

Dear Giovanni,

I am glad the information was helpful.

I wouldn't want to get the law involved in such cases, but it does show the importance of Christians communicating their history to others and not relying on some secular system so to do.

Alexandria in the fifth century was a very vibrant place, a veritable melting pot of ideas, with Greek philosophy and science jostling with pagan ideas and the immense popularity of Christianity. The Imperial authorities were very jealous of the power and influence of the Christian bishops of Alexandria, and certainly tried to use the Hypatia incident as an excuse to rein in the new young bishop Cyril.

As an historian, I find it a trifle depressing, if not in the slightest bit surprising, that these old myths about St. Cyril are trotted out without anyone checking on them. I thought the 'E' in UNESCO had something to do with 'education' - shame on them. I hope their other work is better authenticated.

Best of luck with the paper!


In Christ,

John

[Giovanni]

I quote;

I wouldn't want to get the law involved in such cases, but it does show the importance of Christians communicating their history to others and not relying on some secular system so to do.

As far as the Law is regarded I remember SOCRATES; "Do you illude yourself that that country where the celebrated processes have no value and anybody can vile them, cancel them, can survive" Plato, CRITO, 50b2
and "In war, in justice court, everywhere you must follow the orders of your fatherland" Plato, CRITO, 51b8

I must say, Roman Catholics believe in love and fraternity, I believe in legality, I sympatize for Emperor Justinianus, not for the Pope.

So I think that a Justice court would be the proper place for discussing this question of HYPATIA and to officially condemn this people.

As for the Christian that communicate their history, I am higlhly doubtfull that they have any will at all.

[John Charmley]

Dear Giovanni,

As for the Christian that communicate their history, I am higlhly doubtfull that they have any will at all.

I fear this is probably correct, and I admire your thirst that justice should be done. But, alas, history is full of such injustices, and we should require several courts sitting in full session continuously were we to deal with all of them.

That said, it is very galling for Christians to have this nonsense about Hypatia dragged out. Clearly what happened to her was inexcusable and a very bad example of Christian behaviour, and so far as any stigma attaches to Christians of that place and that era, it is justified; but to attach actual blame to the young bishop Cyril is to get things out of perspective. To anyone who knows anything about Alexandria at that time, it was quite impossible for a young and inexperienced bishop to control the rowdier elements; over the years of his episcopate, and with experience, Cyril became more adept at this, but to the end was unable to get the rowdier elements under total control.

In Christ,

John

[Giovanni]

Well, I have interesting evidence, I have already sent it to an important laic academic authority; I begin to suspect that they are interested, cannot be sure. Just in case, should it not interest them would you like to examine it?
It is a rather long and detailed article in Italian. Only after receiving a refusal from the laic academic authority I can make a short resume of it in English.
If you should be interested, this is my proposal.
I don't want to say anything more.