Common prayer?

[Simon]

I quote: “From the Bible and the Koran, Abraham is placed in a universal human dimension, as the one who discovers and practises faith in a personal God, promising fecundity, descendents and possession of the earth in the context of a pact to which he and his clan must remain faithful. He is presented in his universality, without exclusiveness, alien to religious polemics. In him. God blesses all peoples of the earth and with him begins the ‘blessed’ history of a new humanity. The ‘blessing’ does not concern only Israel, inasmuch as Abraham is a cosmopolitan of faith. Abraham is the man seeking God, he is a multitude, he is all those seeking God, he is each of us on his path in the search for God in order to fulfil his word. We wonder if Abraham may become a convergence of peoples believing in God.
The figure of Abraham could, furthermore, open among Jews, Christians, and Muslims a prospect for common prayer. To recognise together the faith of Abraham could allow the three religions to meet in the adoration of the single God, creator of sky and earth, merciful and benign conductor of history, judge and perfecting force of the world and humanity. Whilst it is not acceptable to create confusion or invade others’ religious space, it is possible to augur that different elements may find in the example of mystics and saints the necessary audaciousness to create common forms of praise and supplicate that they be reunited in an experience of prayer together. “Every authentic prayer – affirmed Jean Paul 2nd to the Roman Curia after the meeting of religions in Assisi in 1986 – is situated under the influence of the Holy Spirit (…) We can retain, in fact that each authentic prayer is suscitated by the Holy Spirit, who is mysteriously present in the heart of every man.”

I have been invited to attend a series of lectures to which this is the preamble, organised by a Catholic cultural organisation in Vicenza, Italy, where I live. I am interested to know further our Church’s stance on this matter,
Yours, in Christ,
Simon.

[Father David Moser]

I quote: “From the Bible and the Koran, Abraham is placed in a universal human dimension, as the one who discovers and practises faith in a personal God, promising fecundity, descendents and possession of the earth in the context of a pact to which he and his clan must remain faithful.

I think from the very beginning this particular quote shows the flaw in the approach (at least of this writer). The flaw is that somehow Abraham "discovers...faith in a personal God" as if no one had ever thought of the idea before. In fact, from the Bible, we know that faith in God has been personal from Adam on. Abraham does not "discover" God, he simply is the only one not to discover anything, but to remain true to the faith that had been handed down to him from his ancestors. This change in perspective, subtle though it may be, changes the whole concept of what "religion" is - it lowers the worship of the One True God to the creation of a man, something Abraham invented or "discovered".

With the idea that religion is man-made, then the premise that all we have to do is go back to a common denominator present in all religions (or find the common factors that they hold) and we can then re-create the process of religious development avoiding the errors of our ancestors and "discover" for ourselves the true religion that is not divided by the errors that have crept in and divided us. This is the root and heart of ecumenism. And this is the reason that as Orthodox Christians we confess "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church".


Fr David Moser

[Mary]

I have been invited to attend a series of lectures to which this is the preamble, organised by a Catholic cultural organisation in Vicenza, Italy, where I live. I am interested to know further our Church’s stance on this matter,
Yours, in Christ,
Simon.

Please forgive me, I am still suffering from a severe case of convertitis. I dont' know about other people, but my needs run much deeper than being one with everyone around me - especially in a religious way. My soul needs feeding, not my head.

The Orthodox Church FEEDS me. Take anything away from it, or add your own stuff to it, and it's not the True Church anymore. Orthodoxy isn't man-made; it is not a culture. It transends all cultures, languages and generations, meets everyone's needs however great or small. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that can be thought up with man's intelligence alone, that can do the same - even if all the men involved are geniuses.

I do not understand what the goal of such meetings would be.

I know you asked for the Church's opinion and not mine. Please forgive me, and pray for me, that I will learn to hold my tongue.

Mary.

[Scott Pierson]

To recognise together the faith of Abraham could allow the three religions to meet in the adorationIslam has little to do with the faith of Abraham. The fact that Mohamed may have been physically descended from Abraham doesn't imply that the religion he taught was inspired by the God of Abraham. The Church fathers often considered Islam to be a Christian heresy so in that it borrows* elements from Christianity it may have some external similarity's to the faith of Abraham but thats about it.

* Most of those similarity's didn't come through a tradition passed on to Mohamed from his fathers back to Abraham but rather from direct borrowing from Christianity.

[Simon]

Please forgive me, I am still suffering from a severe case of convertitis. I dont' know about other people, but my needs run much deeper than being one with everyone around me - especially in a religious way. My soul needs feeding, not my head.

Dear Mary, Fr. David and others

Perhaps as far as I am concerned personally, I agree with you. However, in Vicenza our Church survives thanks to the help of the Catholics, who have provided us with premises, and help in everyday matters, such as helping our priest to find a new flat. Our priest doesn't speak Italian, and has asked me to keep in touch with the Catholics, as it were. Certainly, he considers them as brothers, even if a bit misled on some subjects.

I might also add that any improvement of relations between our Church and others, on condition that this not be confused with an artificial attempt to align dogma, or whatever, seems to enter into the spirit of love in the gospels. Surely at such meetings it's not good for our Church to be the only one that doesn't attend, giving the impression that we shun contact with others. Certainly, in Kossovo, prior to the terrible events in the 1990's, Muslims were considered welcome guests at Orthodox monasteries, or at least so the monks tell me. Interfaith dialogue also allowed Serbs in Belgrade to send food parcels to family and friends in Sarajevo.

I pray for the whole of humanity to be saved, and I suppose it is legitimate, as I am usually the only Orthodox present on such occasions, to try and give our perspective on the matter discussed at the question and answer session at the end. I truly feel there are many Catholics in my town who have a genuine thirst for the spirituality you talk of, and don't know where to seek it.

I would be grateful, too, for any comments regarding the former Pope's affirmation that the Holy Ghost is present in all genuine attempts to pray,

Yours in Christ,
Simon

p.s. Happy Christmas in advance to all those celebrating tomorrow, as is my case!

[John Charmley]

Dear Simon,

You raise some very interesting questions, and have had some equally interesting answers.

When you write

I might also add that any improvement of relations between our Church and others, on condition that this not be confused with an artificial attempt to align dogma, or whatever, seems to enter into the spirit of love in the gospels. Surely at such meetings it's not good for our Church to be the only one that doesn't attend, giving the impression that we shun contact with others.

my reaction is bravo!'

The prospectus of the lecture series is bound, one fears, to arouse some critical responses - as an Anglican I am all too familiar with the well-meaning attempt to bring everyone together on the basis that 'we are all people of Faith'; and on that, Fr. David has said what is needful.

But, on the basis quoted above, with no attempt to syncretise, there is no harm, perhaps?

Your posts raise the more general point (especially your last one) of how Orthodox relate to other Christians in situations where they are in a small minority. Here it might be very interesting to hear the views of others here on this subject.

Two of my best friends, on hearing of my interest in Orthodoxy, said, in all seriousness to my wife 'you're surely not going to let him go there?' They are both Catholic converts, and perhaps, like Mary, suffer from their own 'convertitis'. But I wonder whether my instinctive response, which is to sympathize with you, and to think there must be a way between that kind of distrust and syncretism is simply evidence that I have been an Anglican for a very long time?

I know that our priests on this site must have experience of co-existing with other Christian churches, and it might be particularly helpful to know how they work out those relationships in the reality of parish life.


Christ in born - rejoice!

John

[Simon]

Indeed he is born, and I'm rejoicing. Even more so after Communion this morning. Love to all, Simon

[Mary]

I might also add that any improvement of relations between our Church and others, on condition that this not be confused with an artificial attempt to align dogma, or whatever, seems to enter into the spirit of love in the gospels.

Dear Simon,

I agree with John, what you're doing is definitely a brave and courageous thing to do. I do understand what you're saying - improving relationships/not compromising dogma, etc. I've invited folks into my home who go around trying to convert me to whatever they believe. I listen, first. And then, I make sure they understand that I can't accept what they believe. Most don't care to know what I believe, so I don't talk about that. But I do try to make friends - I ask them about their families and where they live and what they do, etc. We had a bunch of young mormom guys come back to visit us several times, and they even mowed our lawn. I asked them why they came back even though they knew we wouldn't join their church. They said they like being friends.

My parents were friends with a muslim family - the man - a very devout muslim, would never enter a church, for any reason. He was that faithful to what he believed in. But he had a great deal of respect for my Dad, who never argued with him but just loved him. When Dad died, he stood outside the church for a long time, and a few minutes after the service began, he entered and sat at the back. My Dad has never entered a mosque, but I'm sure, if this friend of his had passed on before he did, he would've done the same for him.

This past weekend - we went to a retreat center to catch up with the lives of all our old protestant friends. Even sat in on one of the sessions till I nearly got sick. But, relationships are important. And if it means I have to listen to songs that sicken me, it's ok. Not a major sacrifice on my part. =)

I'm sure much good will come of these meetings, even if there are only a few others there who are as interested as you are in improving relationships.

Please forgive me again for my hasty words.

Mary.

[John Charmley]

Dear Mary,

Can I thank you for sharing with us such a very moving story about your father and his Muslim friend - that really touched my heart - as did your own apology.

There is, it seems to me, nothing in our Faith about hating others, just about loving them, even if we cannot agree, and even if we have to condemn their behaviour as sinful. How much more, then, are we called to love our fellow Christians? If they do not have the fulness of the Faith, then one might even be compassionate and explain why that is; we are not called to arrogance - we are told to boast of nothing save the Cross. We are called to walk in the way of Our Lord - and in what you have said in your last post, Mary, you show us that example, so thank you for that.


In Christ,

John