Where have all the healers gone? [Archive] - Monachos.net Discussion Community

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Paul Cowan

27-01-2007, 06:42 AM

I am deliberately not putting this under the Prayer Request forum in order to generate discussion. My wife is very ill. Her list of physical and emotional problems is impressive. I would rather not enumerate on them here, but for the sake of discussion, they are many.

We have been to general practitioners, specilists, holistic gurus, self healing, and of course Holy Unction. We have tried traditional and nontraditional medicine. We have spent innumerable nights and weeks in various hospitals. Her file is thick to say the least.

Its not that we are turning to the church last. We have always turned to the church but have been told God created medicine and to utilize that in conjunction with prayer. We have many people praying for us as well as our daily prayers. Jesus never turned ANYONE away from his Healings. Why is it so hard to find healing in the Church?

My question is where are all the healers? The Holy Apostles could heal. Even Peter's shadow had healing power. Many of the Saints could heal. People would flock to the monastics that could heal. I know they prefer their privacy, but they did heal those that came to them. Where are they now? Who are they? My wife is only 38 and will probably not live to 45. Perhaps 50?

If the power of the church is in its people, where are all the healers? I have heard the argument of Job and the argument that God can show His glory through this. In the meantime, she is in tremendous pain and desperation to be healed. I am not necessarily asking for a phone number and address, though that would be nice. I am asking for discussion on the change in the world of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. Where did they go? Who has them? Why can the rest of the world not benefit from those that do have them?

Desperately seeking,
Paul

Andreas Moran

27-01-2007, 11:17 AM

Dear Paul,

I write as one who has had some experience in these things. I cannot pretend to you that I have any answer which will assuage your desperation. Holy men said all the right things to me and still, in my heart, I wondered why . . . why Holy Unction and enough holy oils, from here there and everywhere, to float a ship 'didn't work'. And why didn't all the treatments she had 'work'? I remembered the books I had read about the miracles of recent saints, and knew about Father Sophrony's gift of healing. Why didn't these help? What was wrong with my prayers? Did miracles really happen anymore? Miracles in other countries began to seem more like myths than reality. I remembered the mystical things which we had experienced together. Were these delusiuons? My breaking heart could only cry to God, 'No! No! No!' and seem to hear no answer.

First, no, there had been no delusion. These mystical things had been real. They had happened to give me strength and assurance now (during Kathryn's illness). Secondly, Kathryn's own attitude to her illness was far better than mine and I was strengthened by that. Thirdly, we were aware of being enfolded in the prayers of those all around Europe who prayed for Kathryn. Fourthly, I had to learn to accept God's will. This was (and if I'm honest remains) the hardest part of it all.

Paul - recall the things of God you have exerienced. Look to your wife's attitude as well as your own. If her attitude is spiritually good, draw strength from that. If she has problems accepting her condition, you need to work on that for her sake with the help of your priest and spiritual friends. Think of the many prayers said for you - these are balm for your heart and soul. Try to believe that God loves you more than you can imagine. His will is inscrutable but He is love. It is tempting in such times to see this life as terribly important. I thought, 'God could put all this right, just like that - no effort.' Remember that what really matters is our salvation. What you are going through offers a way to salvation; try to accept that this is God's way and that He knows what He's doing.

I know this is not an answer to your question, 'where are all the healers?' I don't know. But I do know that salvation is here.

Nothing will take away your pain but there are ways to the spiritual management of pain. You can, of course, still hope for your wife's healing one way or another and your pain will turn to joy. But whatever happens, believe that God loves you and will be close to you.

I will pray for, unworthy as I am. Will you tell us your wife's name that we can pray for her?

With love in Christ,

Andreas.

Rick H.

27-01-2007, 06:39 PM

I.) If 'the power of the church' is in its people, where are all the healers?

II.) I am not necessarily asking for a phone number and address, though that would be nice.

III.) I am asking for discussion on the change in the world of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.

A. Where did they go?
B. Who has them?

Dear Paul,

I think you and I are asking some of the same questions making some of the same statements.

Specifically, regarding your wife and yourself, I am wondering if you are aware of a book titled, A Severe Mercy, by Shelden Vanauken. Here is a link, or something to cut and paste that will let you take a look at the book:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060688246/ref=pd_luc_mri/103-3383128-1673401?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance

This book may not answer any of the questions that you have asked above, or it may, but in a way that you had not intended. This book is written by Shelden about his relationship with his wife "Davey" (her nickname). Much of it takes place in England as well as in America. Especially Shelden's correspondece with C.S. Lewis is very helpful I think. From the time that these two first met, and then attended Oxford together living in a very small apartment together, to the time when they sailed together and lived on a sail boat there is helpful thing after thing presented here. I 'had' to read this book for a seminary theology class. When I first picked this book up in the "book tunnel" seeing that it was required, I remember glancing through it and thinking, "YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!! . . . 'WHAT IN THE WORLD' IS THIS TEACHER THINKING!!! . . . I DON'T WANT TO READ THIS--WHAT COULD THIS LOVE STORY POSSIBLY HAVE TO DO WITH THEOLOGY???"

And, after my tantrum and pouting was over, which took more than a few days even after first beginning this love story, I began to see the wisdom of my teacher for requiring us to read this book that seemingly had no thing to do with any thing. There is no way in H-E-double toothpicks (as Frank Burns used to say) that I would have ever invested 'my' valuable time in reading this book if it wasn't requried for that class; but, I am glad that I did. If it looks interesting to you it sells for $8.47 new at Amazon, or if you prefer, send me (a private message) your address of where you work there in Houston and I will UPS my copy from the "book tunnel" as a gift to you and your wife. I loaned my copy to my priest who has it now, but I just sent him an email asking for it back in case you want it.

Regarding, your question about 'the power of the church' as it relates to 'the Church in the power of the Holy Spirit.' And, regarding your questions about 'the change,' and 'where are all the healers?':

1.) Where did they go?

2.) Who has them?

Yes, we are asking the same questions here. And, when you say:

We have been to general practitioners, specilists, holistic gurus, self healing, and of course Holy Unction. We have tried traditional and nontraditional medicine.

I can see that you and your wife are and have been exploring some of the same areas that I am and have been exploring. Whereby I have found that some things that have been common knowledge in the East for thousands of years are just now being 'discovered' and used by some of our so called doctors here in the West. Up until I have broadened my studies in the past few years to include a look at some things that I had previosly thought were clearly products of the "imagination" of others who were in fact very ignorant and supersticious, I felt like a very intelligent and sophisticated Westerner who was in fact superior to the ignorant people in the East who would consider a so called holistic approach to medicine. But, now that I have invested a significant amount of time exploring some of these traditional Chinese and Indian methods as compared . . . I am almost embarrassed to be an American (okay let's be honest--I am embarrased to be an American as it relates to my previous thinking and the way most people and doctors think here in this country). The more I study these previously mentioned ways of knowing and living as it relates to both anatomy and physiology (as well as the psychological ramifications) in relation to our ways of knowing/thinking/being, the more IGNORANT I see that I was and still am. I will spare you the avenues of investigation that I have employed (which did and does include seminars and more than a few books that the 'book police' may wish to confiscate and burn), but the point is . . . I hear you[!] and I am working with you on this at the present as it relates to the Power of the Holy Spirit in the Church, or the lack of it.

The only concrete thing that I can say with a high degree of certainty about your question as it relates specifically to your wife is that I am convinced in many cases it is NOT the disease that kills but it IS the diagnosis (in terms of ones attitude towards a recovery or a lack of recovery). I am convinced that as we move beyond and 'rise above' such things as conversations about the difference between causality and symtoms and 'medicine as remedy' (whether synthetic or herbal), and as we move into the realm of spirituality and healing and healers, it is not the practice itself (viz. practice for practice sake) that brings the cure, anymore than it is the vehicle/way or tool/healer that is the Source of the healing (or the Source of one's strength). These methods are important and very often play a vital role; however, I am convinced that in light of what we are considering it is one's attitude, one's faith, and one's response to such things that can make all the difference 'in the world' and may!--based on the Soveriegnty of God--create positionally a place of harmony and genuine union that provides a Holy Synergy, that brings a true healing, and a manifestation of the True Healer, right before one's eyes, as God wills; regardless of the nationality or apparent level of sophistication in the approach/method AND in such a way as to answer every one of your questions that you have just posed in a most satisfactory Way.

Peace to your wife and to you Paul,

Rick

Peace is not the Goal it is the Way

"Thou will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee, becasue he trusteth in thee." Isa 26:3

***If you like to do word studies, the phrases 'perfect peace,' 'mind stayed on thee,' and 'trusteth' are a true feast.

Veritas inductio cogitatio

Scott Pierson

27-01-2007, 09:42 PM

I'm sure this thread will be of interest to many people who are asking the exact same question. As far as I can remember in the Bible every time a person came to Christ or the Apostles for healing they actually received real physical healing of their ailments (eye problems, skin disorders , etc). I do remember one verse in which a person asked the Apostles to cast a demon out and they couldn't but Christ later healed the same person and chided the Apostles for not casting it out themselves (in His name of course) . It seems rather then approaching healing from the perspective of " we will pray and if it's God's will you will be healed " they rather thought that it was Gods will for you to be healed (of your physical ailment) and thats why He laid it on your heart to come to us for healing. They seemed to have a 100% success rating in terms of actual physical cures unless maybe the Bible authors simply refrained from mentioning the multitude of “failures”* that took place.

Don't get me wrong I understand that God may at times allow us to have sickness for the sake of building us up spiritually and morally (making us stronger... like Nietzsche said "That which doesn't kill me only makes me stronger..." and such.) It just appears at least that the Gift of Healing operated different then than I see it operating now. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong though.

* Ie times in which the person still had the eye disorder (etc) after the healing

Trudy

28-01-2007, 02:51 AM

God's will is that we be restored to the state of perfection found in the Garden before the Fall. His will is that we be in perfect union with Him.

We live in a fallen world where the evil one is 'prince.' It was the same world in which the Apostles lived.

It is important to note that Jesus and the Apostles did not heal every single person they met. The woman with the issue of blood was healed purely by touching the hem of Jesus' garment, but how many other people in the crowd were ill but were not healed. True, only she approached Him with bold faith, but how many others brushed His robe? There are many, many instances where Jesus healed one but not another.

It is hard for us to understand 'why' God doesn't heal those we love. It was very hard for me to understand 'why' God didn't allow the Navy medics to resuscitate my first husband. After all, he was only 23 and we had an 18 month old (at the time) when he reposed.

Eventually, I learned that it was not my place to ask 'why.' After many days and nights of mourning did I arrive at the place of peace, having the gift of knowing he was in heaven, and knowing that at some point I would have the answer to my 'why.'

Paul, I don't know where all the healers are? I do, however, have the utmost faith that there are healers amongst us. I also know that those healers are only as effective as are our (meaning the world's - not your personal faith) prayers and faith. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are active. God has not abandoned us. He has given gifts to those who humble themselves and seek His face. Those gifts are active.

It is my hope, Paul, that what you so desperately seek, you will find. May God grant you and your wife, His peace and comfort.

Athanasia
(one who seeks as well)

Leah C. Cowan

28-01-2007, 03:25 AM

Hello,
I'm Leah and I am new to this forum, and this is my first post. I have been wanting to write for a long time, in fact, it is this exact issue which has me "double minded" and my faith rocking like a boat in a storm. Please bear with me as I explain a little bit. I grew up Independent Fundamental Baptist, went out in the world for awhile, and came back in through "The Baptism of the Holy Spirit", and a Charismatic church. When the Pastor laid hands on me, and I "received" the Holy Spirit, I fell flat on the ground, and it was very VERY real. I got up with so much LOVE and adoration for my Lord that I could do nothing but sing how much I loved Him, as loud as I could. I then got involved with a self proclaimed prophet who had been Greek Orthodox. He claimed to have the only "Spirit Filled" Orthodox church. He helped me get off of drugs and alcohol, and to LOVE GOD. I owe him a debt of gratitude, however, over time, it became too obvious that he was a very angry man, and had a lot of delusions of grandure- plus a lot of his prophecies were wrong (:-{ and one thing after another- the church/group split ,and so I found Orthodoxy for real. Of course there is SOOO much more to this simple little story, but my problem is, my Question is,

WHY IS THE HOLY ORTHODOX CHURCH NOT ASKING THIS QUESTION?????? WHERE ARE THE GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT, AND WHY DOES THE CHURCH NOT POSSESS THEM?"

Orthodoxy has ruined any other religion for me, because I know in my heart that it is the true Church of Christ, however, I am very UNHAPPY ABOUT IT, and have not been to church in over a year, whereas, I used to go every chance I had.

Here is why this bothers me so much. A VERY large percentage of Christ's ministry was healing. Like Scott said, Jesus never said No to anyone who asked for his healing. Can you imagine Jesus giving someone the answer we hear from our Priests and well meaning people today? Oh, I will heal something Spiritual inside you, but I can't let you walk again", or "I'll give you Spiritual eyes, instead of curing your blindness." He never did that, and neither did His Apostles or even others. He did BOTH.

WHat I am trying to say is, it was?/is important to God that be physically whole, as well as spiritually. Christ's ministry on this earth makes that obvious, however, the Church seems to ignore this whole part of Christianity, and offers many excuses why it is no longer "available". WHY ISN'T THE CHURCH ASKING WHY?

When the Apostles could not heal a man, they brought him to Jesus to heal him, and he DID. He called them "of little faith", and said this one only comes out by prayer and fasting.". So It was not lack of faith on the sick one's side, nor lack of presence of the Holy Spirit. It was lack on the Apostles part. It feel like that puts the responsibility on the Church Elders.

We were told that if ANY of us is sick, to go to THE ELDERS OF THE CHURCH, have them anoint us with oil, and the prayer of faith WILL make us well. WHY DOESN'T IT WORK??? Everyone is afraid to say it, but HOLY UNCTION JUST DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE! If you are a Priest, do you REALLY EXPECT someones leg to grow back, or blindness or Aids to be healed when you pray for the sick? I know I don't.

So, why not? And we were never told to have a public Unction service anyway. I feel like God is not "allowed" to work any REAL miracles any more. It would mess up our pretty services, where we are hearing about what the symbolism is behind Orthodox Bells, or Icons.
People are Miserable, depressed and dying all around and IN our beautiful churches (I am one of them) and we have nothing to really offer. God USED TO prove his Power and Love through Many more miracles than just healing. How can we expect people to believe, if we have NO POWER, any different from any other religion.

My last desperate concern is this. If He is not healing or working any miracles for individuals anymore, if my Priest can't heal me, how can he turn bread and wine into Holy Communion? If Unction doesn't work, how do we know confession and Baptism do?

Please forgive me. I am obviously ANGRY and DESPERATE. I have prayed constantly for God to CHANGE MY HEART. Help me to embrace Orthodoxy, and get involved, but I CAN'T. One, is my physical illness, and 2 is my anger. I want/need to FEEL Him again! My Priest's answer to that is that I am just addicted to feeling something, and my God parents said that whatever I used to FEEL when I went to church or was with other Christians, or even worshiping alone, was either not real, or the devil.

It scares me insane that I have committed the unforgivable sin, or calling Satin the Holy Spirit, or Vise-Versa, but it was definatly real, and I can't believe Satin could convict me of sin, or fill my heart with so much Love that I could not contain it, however it was only Spiritual healing, and not physical even from that. I believe that the healers who have the Power of the Holy Spirit are in the Orthodox Church, but don't even know it, or ignore it. It's just not talked about or practiced. Where are all the healers? Look in the mirror. You may be one. It would be such a shame to deny those that need help, because those with the gifts are afraid of Pride, or have not been TAUGHT HOW TO USE THEM, LIKE THE APOSTLES WERE!

I admit that I am not currently participating in my own deliverance, but to me, going to church is just going through some motions that I don't even understand. The Priest prays so quickly that I can't understand him or even follow along in the service book. I just CAN'T connect to God through Orthodoxy, and yet where do I go? Where is HE??? CAN I FIND A BALANCE?

There is so much more I could write, but feelings are so hard to put into words. Please forgive me, if I have offended anyone, or if I am just plain wrong. If there are any other former Charismatics on the forum, I would love your input.

With humble gratitude for this forum,
Leah

PS-Yes, I am Paul's wife. Please don't throw sticks at him for my bad attitude. I am BLESSED FOR HIM!!!!!

Cecily

28-01-2007, 04:51 AM

Dear Leah,

May God help you and your husband and grant you strength to go through these trials. I know nothing, bit can only offer what my spiritual father and the saints have said.

A few years ago, in our parish, a darling three year old was dying of cancer and did die. Her mother had had another child who had also died before her. My father who is a priest, prayed SO hard for her and annointed her with holy oil, and she still did not get well. He really struggled with this. I remember reading in the saints lives around that time about St. Amvrosy of Optina who suffered his entire life from from very grievous illnesses, yet cured many people from illness. It was that his sickness was a test and opportunity for many crowns for him, and so God didn't take away this great opportunity from him even though He could have.

I highly suggest reading an excellent book called "The Meaning of Suffering" written by an archimandrite. I am a nurse and see horrible suffering often. People often have this similar response that you do, and forgive me if I say something lightly, but I think it's often because we don't understand suffering anymore. It's easy for me to say, and when I suffer, I don't always remember this, but suffering is given to us for two main reasons as this book says. First to purify us and secondly to give us the opportunity to gain many crowns for our patience, if we endure patiently. Often when we pray for something, it's not to our benefit, even if it seems good, and so God in His great mercy won't give it to us. This applies to anything we ask for, even health, which is a gift, and not our right.

Miracles do happen, as I know because I've experinced them and known others who have, but they don't happen every time I pray. God does hear your prayer, but maybe He is answering it in a different way than you expect. Maybe the healing will be a spiritual healing and not physical. My mother prayed for a son after her first baby son died at birth for about 15 years. At times I'm sure she thought her prayer was not being heard, and God wasn't listening, but after about 15 years, my brother was born on the feast of the Mother of God, Joy of All who Sorrow. God did hear her prayer, but answered her in His own time, and not hers. Or maybe this present grief is an opportunity for your soul to be completely purified and is more spiritually helpful than health would be. May God give you the strength not to give up hope and to continue to trust in God, whatever He may give you, that it is for your salvation.

The saints continue to hear our prayers and do heal us, both spiritually and physically, but only when God deems that this is helpful to us. Otherwise, healing would be a curse and not a blessing.

Please forgive my presumption. I will pray for you and your family. Please do
read that book, "The Meaning of Suffering", it is really helpful.

With love in Christ,
cecily

Antonios

28-01-2007, 06:05 AM

Dear Leah,

I don't know how to start this post. I can't begin to understand the sorrow and pain you feel. I know my words are merely words and that I am a great sinner. I thank Cecily for writing such a sincere and poignant post.

I can only write to you what I believe, and I will leave you to decide what it is worth. Miracles do happen. Holy Unction heals us in ways we often can not perceive. And above all, God loves us. God loves us more than we can imagine; more than we could ever comprehend. When the hour comes for all of us to come before the Lord, not one tear, not one cry, not one speck of pain will be forgotten. And standing before the Lord, His eyes will look into ours, and then we will understand. Then we will learn the answers we have wanted to know. And in that knowledge we will find peace and joy, and above all, love. This is the love we must hope for. This is the love which will set us free.

My thoughts and prayers are with you. May God give you the strength and comfort and hope to the greater things in life, both here and in the hereafter.

Fr Raphael Vereshack

28-01-2007, 10:39 PM

My Dear Leah,

I want to confirm what the others have written above in response to your heart felt post.

In our parish this morning we had a moleben service for the healing of several people. Each of these ailing people we prayed for are in real need of healing. But yet we do not know what God's will is for these people nor do we really know what these people will do when God shows His mercy to them. That is why when we pray for others even when they are in grievous circumstances we must do so in the spirit of "Thy will be done." Otherwise we will mistake our expectations for the way in which God brings healing to each of His people.

The Gospels it is true do give an account of those who came to Christ for healing & were healed. Along with this however the Gospels also clearly witness to the ongoing physical affliction, suffering and temptation of the Disciples. Even though they were His Disciples they still died, and most in a martyric way. Obviously those healed by Christ still at some point died afterwards; most presumably also led a life of affliction if they were leading a life in emulation of their Lord.

The point is that Christ's healings were not a total deliverance from physical or spiritual affliction. These same people who were healed in one way also endured affliction in others. And if they were really following Christ they probably endured even more affliction than before, not less.

From the time of Christ then, being a Disciple was not a way to avoid illness. Rather to be a Disciple meant to take up that life in emulation of Christ which really means to take up one's cross and follow Him.

The reason this occurs is not to see who can last longest under the most tormenting conditions. It's no wonder that we reach the point of desperation if we see God's providence in this way. For it is our falleness which causes us to see God's love in this fashion, causing us to see in reverse what God is actually doing.

Suffering is the given of our lives. As a sign of His deliverance Christ will at times relieve us of some of this suffering. But we must never make the mistake of confusing this kind of relief with the actual deliverance Christ is trying to bring us.

Christ is not trying to relieve us from suffering. Rather He is trying to lead us to share with Him healing the world of death through our willingly taking up the cross of suffering. As we do this suffering is transformed from a literal dead end into something which gives peace to the heart.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Andreas Moran

28-01-2007, 11:36 PM

There is much wisdom in the posts of Athanasia, Cecily and Antonios. Of course, as Athanasia says, these things are hard. But, as she says, we cannot ask 'why'; more importantly, she says that when we suffer 'God has not abandoned us. He has given gifts to those who humble themselves and seek His face.' I want to expand on this.

I think this Thread is very important. And we have to remember that it ought not to be a forum for theoretical discussion. Here, we are confronted with some of the worst pain people can suffer. The problem of evil and suffering is the most common reason people give for not believing in God. So, if our witness as Christians is to mean anything, we must be able to come up with answers. To those Christians who find themselves in the furnace of suffering, we, but especially pastors, need to have something to say to the suffering, the grieving and desperate.

As Christians, we know the meaning of life - it's not a mystery. Life is preparation for the true life, eternal life. Orthodox Christians understand this as theosis, union with God. As Athanasia says, this is God's will: 'that we be in perfect union with Him.' How should we prepare for this? How should we use this life?

First, we must believe in God as He has revealed Himself to be. God is love, we are told. 'I am that I am' means, according to Elder Sophrony, that God is a person. If He were not, He would not be love. If He is not love He is not God and does not exist. If He is love, it means He loves us. He told us so. He created everything from love. He is Absolute Good and can do nothing contrary to His nature. Therefore, we cannot say that God is unkind or unloving. God made love the basis of everything. He chose the very thing in which He is powerless - He cannot force us to love Him for that would not be love. He wants us to love Him but He respects our free will. We can accept Him or reject Him. If we reject Him, He will let us rely on whatever else we have put our trust in: the world, ourselves. This the false freedom of the world. If we accept Him, we reject the freedom of the world and enslave ourselves to God. And that slavery is true freedom because it is freedom from the world and our passionate attachment to it and the things in it.

Because the world is fallen, a life lived only on conformity to the world cannot prepare us for Paradise. A life lived in conformity to the world - at any rate in the so-called developed world - is a life where we seek and enjoy material comfort, pleasure and good health. Good job, nice house and car, good food and drink and health are not bad in themselves; but if we rate them too highly and are too attached to them, they possess us. Our Lord compared how people will be at His Second Coming with how they were in the time of Noe and Lot: eating and drinking, marrying, buying and selling. Not being gluttons, drunkards, fornicators and thieves, but doing ordinary things - without God. Today, as in those days, people are self-reliant and bound to these things. God knows we need the basic things of life but He knows we must not be so preoccupied by them, and certainly not by extravagances.

God loves us - even the hairs of our head are numbered (and in my case, less difficult to count than formerly). But God knows our weaknesses and so He knows we need correcting, 'chastening' in biblical language. Christ said we would have tribulation in this world; He didn't say everything would be alright. God chastens those He loves. Why? Because He loves those who seek salvation. If, as Christians, we have no troubles, we should be worried. If by tribulations we enter Paradise and if without them we perish, what shall our choice be?

Do we know better than God what is best for us? How can we argue with God? How can we demand anything of Him? How can we think that we know better than He how things should be arranged? If He is love and Almighty, we should trust Him. If we trust Him, we should accept His ways and His providence, inscrutable though they are. Should we expect to be free of sickness and sorrows? Should we always expect to get from God whatever we ask for? We can't, in prayer, go to Him with a list of 'I wants'. As Bishop Eirenaios told me , 'God is not a grocer.'

What are we to think when it seems our prayers, those for something which from every possible human point of view seems right to be asked for, are unheard? Our Lord Himself prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane that the cup which was before Him might pass from Him. But His prayer was not granted. Yet He prayed also, 'but Thy will be done' as He Himself had taught us to pray. Did the Mother of God avoid suffering? As we remember in the forthcoming Feast of the Presentation, she was told that a sword would pierce her heart, and so it did when she saw her Son crucified. Was St Paul's prayer to be freed from the thorn in his side answered? Not in the way he had prayed. Do holy people avoid suffering? We need only think of the countless martyrs who suffered in various ways, so many of them not long ago. Why was St Seraphim so badly beaten by robbers that he was deformed for the rest of his life? Elder Sophrony suffered from cancer. Starets Kyrill, the greatest starets in Russia today, lies blind and paralysed from illness.

What is to be our response to suffering? It must be that of Our Lord, His Mother, and of the saints. That response is acceptance. This the key. By acceptance we avoid accusing God. By acceptance, we show our humility before Him. By acceptance, we declare our love to Him and our trust. Acceptance is the key because if we accept our suffering, that key opens the door to God's grace which He grants us to enable us to bear our suffering.

This is not theory. Kathryn's cancer started in the year before she was due to retire after 35 years as a year six teacher. We had planned to retire together, move to Essex and pass a quiet retirement in prayer and worship and work at the monastery. Nothing wrong with that. She could have felt angry - cheated out of a happy retirement after long years of service to others and leaving me alone. But she accepted her cancer. She even counted it a blessing and thanked God. The result? Several times in the few months of life she had left her face shone with light. She confounded the doctors by feeling no pain even when the cancer spread to her bones and liver. She looked lovingly at the icons of the saints and said with a smile, 'my friends are helping me.' She looked at her favourite photo of Father Sophrony (whom she had not met) and said, 'isn't he a wonderful person?' Her colour remained fresh, even in her coffin. And she gained a rich entrance into Paradise. Now, that's what I call miraculous. Sickness and death were made to look foolish by the grace of God.

Acceptance is our essential response to suffering. It is for acceptance that we should pray if we find we do not have it. If God sees our humble acceptance of His will, He will be close to us. And what should we want but to be close to God?

For me, praying for acceptance so that I can be fully reconciled with all that has happened in my life which caused me suffering is an ongoing process. When we pray for those who suffer, let us pray that God will grant them the gift of acceptance. If we humbly ask for this in prayer in the name of Jesus, it will be granted. It would be an easy miracle to get rid of a disease. It is a greater miracle to give us the grace to cover our suffering with acceptance for then we have co-operated with God, we have said, Thy will be done, and we gain crowns.

In Christ,

Andreas.

PS Written and posted after Fr Raphael's post which puts it much more succinctly.

Paul Cowan

29-01-2007, 12:08 AM

To all, I thank you for your encouragement and your heartfelt prayers. As you saw, Leah added her own view to our on-going struggles. Knowing what is right and living in the moment of it are not always the easiest or desired things to endure. Personally I have to remember, there is always some one worse off than I am. That should be humbling enough.

Thank you Andreas for sharing your wife's incredible witness.

Acceptance is our essential response to suffering. It is for acceptance that we should pray if we find we do not have it. If God sees our humble acceptance of His will, He will be close to us. And what should we want but to be close to God?

For me, praying for acceptance so that I can be fully reconciled with all that has happened in my life which caused me suffering is an ongoing process. When we pray for those who suffer, let us pray that God will grant them the gift of acceptance. If we humbly ask for this in prayer in the name of Jesus, it will be granted. It would be an easy miracle to get rid of a disease. It is a greater miracle to give us the grace to cover our suffering with acceptance for then we have co-operated with God, we have said, Thy will be done, and we gain crowns.

I have talked with Leah a lot on the replys we have been encouraged with them. She is much comforted with them I am sure she will express herself as well to you. Patience and suffering are never what we want to endure, but as quite obvious to the will of God as this is, please pray for our willingness to be obedient.

I hope this thread continues if not on this specific subject of suffering and the will of God in our lives then on the topic of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in the 21st century. Namely:

How are they manifested?
Where and when are they manifested?
The presence and action of the Holy Spirit in my (your) life.
The withdrawl of the Holy Spirit because of...

Again, I appreciate and love you all for insights into the workings of the Spirit of God and my role in my (our) salvation. Please continue to pray for us. We will for you. God bless the fruit from this forum.

In Christ
Paul

Fr Raphael Vereshack

29-01-2007, 01:08 AM

I hope this thread continues if not on this specific subject of suffering and the will of God in our lives then on the topic of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit in the 21st century. Namely:

How are they manifested?
Where and when are they manifested?
The presence and action of the Holy Spirit in my (your) life.
The withdrawl of the Holy Spirit because of...

I think Andreas' account of Kathryn's death sums this up so powerfully that it's difficult to do more than look to this as an example of why the Church leads us as it does.

First about the question above it is seen as being perilous to, as it were, move head on towards acquiring the gifts of the Holy Spirit. This is mainly because it is extremely likely that we mistake human states for those of the Holy Spirit and thus fall into pride or worse, actual spiritual bondage (prelest'). Tragically throughout the history of the Church there have been many examples of those who thus fell by mistaking natural light for that which is Divine. As a word of warning we are even instructed that the evil one also very much possesses his own sort of light.

Not to say that acquiring the gift of the Holy Spirit is not something we strive and pray for. After all, this is why so often we begin prayer and church services with the prayer to the Holy Spirit :"O Heavenly King". Also so many now have been able to read St Seraphim of Sarov's conversation with Nicholas Motovilov in which the saint explains how the purpose of our Christian life is to acquire the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Still however, to acquire the Holy Spirit means pursuing a life in humble obedience to God's commandments as we understand this in the Church. The key for what we are discussing however is that the more a person is to grow in Christ and thus in the Holy Spirit- the more he/she grows in humble perception of him/herself in comparison to God. This is like the saying of one of the Desert Frs (can't recall if it is St Pachomius or not) to not be amazed if one were to raise someone from the dead but rather if he were to humble himself.

Of course such a path is very difficult. Our enemy along with our inner passions throw so many traps in our way in order to prevent us from following what is really the path to life. But Christ Himself works amidst this struggle allowing us to catch glimpses of the dead end which surely results from following a path other than that of humility. We fall, we get back up again, we fall, we get back up. This itself becomes a purifying process. But only if we do not consciously and decisively turn our back on it. If this path of struggle really sets in then we enter upon dangerous ground for then the invisible support of the Holy Spirit which all along was helping us along the path really will recede.

The Holy Spirit thus works through the people of the Church in a continuous basis according to how its people follow Christ. Although it usually is quite invisible to us it cannot be that people are following Christ but yet the Holy Spirit is not present. Where Christ is present so is the Holy Spirit. But then again this is difficult to spot as the workings of the Holy Spirit are so humble and hidden most of the time.

Finally, what we are really all talking about here is the life of the Church. Where there is the Church there already is the Holy Spirit at work. Just as one cannot speak of a living person without a living spirit so there is no such thing as the Church which then needs to search for the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit already is the manifestation of the living Church. Of course though each member of the Church must struggle to acquire that Spirit.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

Andreas Moran

29-01-2007, 01:14 AM

Dear Paul,

God bless you. There were times when, God forgive me, I thought 'why did it have to turn out this way? I want Kathryn here.' Then I thought, 'how can you wish her to be here when she is in paradise? And she prays for you - you have a good friend in heaven.'

Father Simeon (Essex) said, in his inimitable way in a delightful French accent, 'peoples' lives are like ze recipes in ze cookery book. Ze dishes are different - zey take different times to cook. So it is wiz people. Zey take different times to be cooked - somes shorter, some longer. Kathryn was ready. You will take longer to cook!'

But this Thread is about more than that. As you say, it will good to open it up a bit.

I prayed for you today at the tomb of Father Sophrony.

In Christ,

Andreas.

Rick H.

29-01-2007, 03:57 AM

Nina

29-01-2007, 05:03 AM

Dear Leah and Paul,

After all those wonderful posts from Fr. Raphael, Andreas, Cecily, Antonios, Athanasia; I can not offer any better advise.

I just want you to know that I feel your pain since I suffered very much during the time my mom suffered with ovarian cancer; and I struggled with "why?" "why to our family?" "why can't my mom heal?" This is a normal process. Remember, Christ (in His human nature) prayed for the cup of suffering to be taken away.

Our life is a reenactment of the New Testament, I think. We all have roles in scenes. Some are chosen to participate in healing and recovery scenes. And some are participants in the Calvary scene, lifting the Cross with Christ.

My "why" questions did not bring peace to me. I found peace only when I reconciled with the fact that God had His plan for my mom and I surrendered to Him. This was not an overnight process. This was a long and excruciating Calvary-like time. However I believe that God was with us. He is with all those who suffer. "Lift up your cross and follow Me" - He said. And I do believe from my experience that we try and lift our personal crosses, but HE is really lifting our crosses for us. Maybe a post from my mom would have been more appropriate to help you, however I want you to know that you have my heartfelt prayers and that you are not alone.

The moment my mom passed away I called her spiritual father and unable to speak, while crying softly I managed to say only: "Pater.... Pater.... Pater....!" He understood what had happened and said "She suffered and through suffering was purified and prepared for Paradise. May God rest her soul!"

Andreas' post about Kathryn reminded me of another woman's struggle with illness: Lynette, who suffered from cancer also. She was a convert to Orthodoxy and a missionary. You can find her writings and life at http://www.prayforlynette.org She is another example like Kathryn and I am glad Andreas' post reminded me of it. Please Leah read some of Lynnete's writings. I received so much strength from what she shared with us, since she suffered from cancer at the same time with my mom.

I also liked very much what Archbishop Anastasios of Albania said during the Eulogy for Lynette:

"Lynette is a modern secret martyr. In other ages, the faithful were confronted by lions and other threats; now, in our age, one of their names is cancer. A brave, gentle, noble soul, Lynette confronted death singing: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall it be tribulation, or distress or ... ? For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor hate, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. "

You can read this Eulogy at http://www.ocmc.org/missionaries.php?sub=missionary&action=topic&id=217&pid=2

A martyr in greek means also witness. Martyrdom = Marturia - in Greek = Witness. So a martyr is a witness for Christ. In our case a martyr during illness is a witness for Christ.

I do not know why, but the title of a book "Wounded by Love" (The Life and Wisdom of Elder Porphyrios) kept ringing in my mind during the whole time I was writing this post to you. I have not read the book yet -I plan to- however the title fits so well during time of suffering.

With love in Christ,
Nina

Andreas Moran

29-01-2007, 10:10 AM

Nina's post is spot on. I'd forgotten about the martyric bit. Bishop Eirenaios said that cancer is the martyrdom of those in the West today. As Nina says, our emotional reaction, while so understandable, doesn't bring peace. Only our spiritual reaction, our 'Thy will be done', brings peace, the peace Christ promised us.

Leah C. Cowan

06-03-2007, 10:37 PM

Dear Everyone,
I am sorry that it took me so long to respond to all of your heart felt posts and PRAYERS. I need to tell you that I really did feel the prayers that were lifted up for me. Even those who didn't write, but did pray, Thank you. The day after writing this post, I felt a connection with My Lord that I have not had in some time. A VERY LONG TIME.

Father Raphael, you wrote "In our parish this morning we had a moleben service for the healing of several people. Each of these ailing people we prayed for are in real need of healing. But yet we do not know what God's will is for these people nor do we really know what these people will do when God shows His mercy to them. That is why when we pray for others even when they are in grievous circumstances we must do so in the spirit of "Thy will be done." Otherwise we will mistake our expectations for the way in which God brings healing to each of His people."

It made me think very hard about what I would do if my body were healed. Do I really want to stop taking pain pills? To Quit smoking? To eat right, and take care of myself? As he said to the paralytic at the pool, "Do you WANT to be healed?"

I guess I realized that I didn't want healing so that I could do God's will with all of my heart, but so that I could go on with my normal if not somewhat worldly life. I need spiritual healing first, and that is what I really long for. I have a member of this forum that is helping me to achieve that, or rather helping me work with God to achieve that.

There is so much more that I could say, but I do want to add this for those who may not understand what God is doing at a moment in their lives.
I have experienced some physical relief in my stomach because we found out that a lot of the pain was caused by a medication I was taking. I had to go through a severe depression to find this out, because it was one of my depression medications! If I had not gone through that very dark time, I would not have been taken off of the medication that was making me ill! God was answering my prayers during the whole struggle, while I was angry with Him for my depression.

When I look back over my whole life, it has always been similar to that experience. God has ALWAYS taken GOOD care of me. I do not know why my faith crumbles EVERY TIME I experience tribulation. I guess it is the human condition.

Please continue to pray for my SPIRITUAL HEALING. I really am so far from where I once was. I just can't seem to find it inside myself to do the work it takes to get back there again, or to move forward. I can't seem to care again. I want a magic pill, or, if you will, a healer, to fix it all for me so that I don't have to climb back up the stairs myself, even though I rode the elevator down here willingly.

Thank you all for your prayers!,
Leah

Mary

07-03-2007, 06:14 AM

There is so much more that I could say, but I do want to add this for those who may not understand what God is doing at a moment in their lives.
I have experienced some physical relief in my stomach because we found out that a lot of the pain was caused by a medication I was taking. I had to go through a severe depression to find this out, because it was one of my depression medications! If I had not gone through that very dark time, I would not have been taken off of the medication that was making me ill! God was answering my prayers during the whole struggle, while I was angry with Him for my depression.

When I look back over my whole life, it has always been similar to that experience. God has ALWAYS taken GOOD care of me. I do not know why my faith crumbles EVERY TIME I experience tribulation. I guess it is the human condition.

Please continue to pray for my SPIRITUAL HEALING. I really am so far from where I once was. I just can't seem to find it inside myself to do the work it takes to get back there again, or to move forward. I can't seem to care again. I want a magic pill, or, if you will, a healer, to fix it all for me so that I don't have to climb back up the stairs myself, even though I rode the elevator down here willingly.

Thank you all for your prayers!,
Leah

Dear Leah,

It's so good to hear from you! After reading your first note, I tried to respond. I so wanted to do something to ease your pain. But none of the things I wrote were working out, so I gave up. I often feel guilty for my good health and wish that God would somehow allow me to share at least half of the pain that others go through. I do not deserve good health, any more than others deserve pain. But, I don't think anyone has developed the technology of transfusing pain from one to another... =(

Depression, I understand. That's the only kind of pain I've suffered from. And I needed to rot in it before I truly wanted to be healed. In fact, I don't even think I would've become Orthodox, if I hadn't first been depressed for 3 long years. I think, part of the reason it's so hard to come out of depression is, our desires may be perfectly legitimate. You want your body healed, my desire was for a friend to talk to, someone I could trust completely and just pour out my heart to. Too much to ask for? I guess, in my case it was! Perhaps, if I'd had such a friend, I would've trusted that friend, instead of turning to God.

I love the prayers just before communion - the part that says - "... to the healing of soul and body..." "... to each according to his need..." (I think I've mixed them up.) Everytime I go forward to take communion, I wonder what it is that I need to be healed a bit deeper. Sometimes, it's been more emotional pain! But, I'm learning something interesting about my depression... I can use it as a tool - sort of like a thermometer, to check if I'm right with God.

Just a week or so ago, I woke up feeling the beginnings of depression. I had no logical reason to feel that way, it was too early in the day for anything to have gone wrong and triggered it. I'm not too good at praying yet, so I can't say I prayed hard. I did a little bit, and I thought about it a lot. Tried to distill my feelings to understand what exactly it was that had stolen my joy and peace. Towards noon, it was like the sun came out all of a sudden and whatever was sitting heavy on my head was gone... I had my answer!

I was asking for something, that wasn't mine to have; asking for more than what I had been given; not thankful for my portion, but comparing mine to others. I had deceived myself into believing I needed it; so I wasn't able to see that I already had all I needed.

I'll bet I'll forget that again at the drop of a hat. At least I got to think about it a second time while writing about it! I hope you'll continue to find encouragement and strength and a closeness with our Physician. There is a 'magic pill' - anything that can bring any amount of healing to a bunch of broken and dying humans, is 'magic', whether it works fast or slow! =)

In Christ,
Mary.

PS - I also hope you find better medicine for depression! =)

Andrew

14-03-2007, 05:15 PM

I do not know why, but the title of a book "Wounded by Love" (The Life and Wisdom of Elder Porphyrios) kept ringing in my mind during the whole time I was writing this post to you. I have not read the book yet -I plan to- however the title fits so well during time of suffering.

With love in Christ,
Nina

This is truly a wonderful book, and relates directly to the topics on this thread.

As an added note, Elder Porphyrios begged God for years to give him cancer, so that he could suffer in his body but rejoice in the Lord.

Paul Cowan

13-07-2011, 03:22 AM

Dear friends,

It has been 4 1/2 years since I started this thread. It is the reason I went to Mount Athos later in 2007 looking for help from them. I thank each and every one of you for your replies and prayers in this thread and others concerning Leah. Reading back over this thread for the first time since it began, I am sad to see her health and mine for that matter have deteriorated dramatically in 4 years. Her post above spells out many of her problems, but I find it easier to pray for someone when they tell me what needs to be prayed for. SO here goes...She is not yet 43 years old.

Severe diabetic gastroperisis
Out of control blood sugars
Severe malnutrition (she weighs just over 90 pounds)
Chronic pain in her neck and back
Bulging discs in and below her neck
Extreme swelling in her lower torso
Feeding tube
IV nasuea medication
Too numerous medications
Insomnia
Chronic dizzyness
Heart disease (6 stents)
Smokes
Depression
blurred vision

I am sure I have left something out, but you get the gist she is not in great shape. We are thankful for many things. Roof over our heads, food, air conditioning and heat, clothes, income, health insurance, our dogs (most of the time), our love for each other, YOUR prayers.

We do have a facility that has agreed to take her with all this later this summer (I hope) to help her overcome some of her "issues". Doctors are only treating symptoms. They don't know how to treat the whole person. And frankly, I doubt they have ever seen anyone like her. We typically spend 2-4 weeks per year in a hospital setting. We just got back from our first stay. They don't know what to do for her. She looks like a homeless person if you were to see her so they subconscously and consciously treat her that way also. It is very demoralizing for a medical person to say, just eat something. Well, she can't! Everything that goes down is like a fire in her stomach so it has to come up to relieve the pain but then she is labeled bulomic and they blame her for the condition.

Anyway, not looking for sympathy, just prayer and the hope that God's will be done. She likes our new priest, but has yet to darken the church doors in about 6 years except for being asked to come for my blessing to be a Kendaleff (sp) 2 years ago. Perhaps this will change since he is showing a wonderful interest in her recovery. She can't drive anymore so getting to church when I go is a very small window of opportunity for her to be feeling well enough to shower and get dressed and drive 30 minutes each way plus the service itself. (she hates the service, but loves the church. go figure)

Please pray not for healing anymore necessarily (it would be nice) but just for her to be able to tolerate this life condition to the end. If crowns of martyrdom come from much suffering, She is going to need a wheelbarrow.

Paul

Alice

13-07-2011, 04:03 AM

http://www.sprint.net.au/~corners/Nov98/StNectarios.htm

http://stnectarioschurch.org/StNectarios/stnectarios-Thavmata_english.htm

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/06/miracle-of-saint-nektarios-healing-of.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj-FgltTDv8

http://www.christianforums.com/t7434857/

It is not that I am partial to St. Nektarios, it is that God has sent him all over the world to heal those who venerate him and pray to him for his intercessions, and also to those who are annointed with his oil. The above are just a few miracles...the numbers of miracles of healing are countless; many are known and published and even more are known only to the pious and grateful recipients. There is a reason he is piously known as the 'Wonder Worker'. He is awesome!

Nina

13-07-2011, 10:38 AM

I just want to cry.

Moses Anthony

15-07-2011, 06:27 PM

The first priest I had after being received into Holy Orthodoxy, held a Prayer Vigil in my home, for then, a member of our Study group. She (interestingly enough worked at the local Hospice) was diagnosed with cervical cancer. She was anointed with chrism from a 'weeping icon', and we prayed. At her follow-up appointment the doctors found no evidence of cancer! Prior to that, not long after we came to this city one of my daughters was diagnosed witha disease which attacked her nervous system. She lay in hospital for over a week not able to walk, but the priest of the Methodist congregation, an dsome of his people were praying for her. Today she is well!

Having come to Orthodoxy from a Charismatic (Presbyterian,Southern Baptist,Methodist) background, my focus has gradually shifted from the miraculous, to the miraculous as a result of godly living. Being so focused on the "gifts of the Holy Spirit" as we can see, has led many onto rather dangerous theological ground. From my vantage point this is the reason there is no historical trail of teachings about miracles, as versus, the Orthodox focus on theosis.

Since I believe that God is indeed God; He therefore is able to shower gifts of His grace upon whomever He so chooses. I think this is what the Apostle taught. But;as to why there seems to be a dearth of said gifts, and a seeming absence of such gifted people....? Why one person is healed, then another, and the next is not is indeed a mystery. And yet; the Apostle does say of God that He "...comforts us in all our afflictions, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God."

Not all of those who ate of the fishes and loaves, who drank the wedding feast wine, or who were physically healed, continued on with Jesus, although history does not allow us to have a definitive view as to the conclusion of the effects of these graces. But, what would be the effect on the world psyche if there were to be a sudden out pouring of the 'gifts of the Spirit'; would the world only come to see God as some genie granting a number of wishes?
In my parish there is a woman who had a mastectomy to stop cancer, and a sub-deacon who underwent chemo for leukemia, and I prayed (just weeks ago) to be healed of an eye infection. And then; I remembered the Apostle Paul's prayers for healing, and God's answer to him, Paul's response, and the thought came to me in my minor (as compared to their) affliction: "If God does not heal me, can I say that His grace is enough for me?" I was concerned with 'my skin', and had to put that aside.

The history of our Church is full of gifted people, and of those who through prayers to them have healed many. Are there any such people today (our mind tells us there has to be), and if there is, where are they when obviously so many would benefit from their gifts. I cannot answer your query; but can only offer the little insight and experience I have shared, praying that somewhere in my ramblings God may refresh your soul.

the sinful and unworthy servant

Kosta

16-07-2011, 12:29 AM

Oh my God Paul, I had no idea. I think you should be the one giving us advice. I wouldnt know how to console a loved one that is so ill. I myself would probably fall into despair. It puts things into perspective, what our priorities are. There just has to be a greater reason for this calamity that has befallen your wife. There is something spiritual behind this even if you or I cant sense it.

Alice

16-07-2011, 12:48 AM

Perhaps, as my post above with the countless miracles of St. Nektarios attest to, the 'healers' in Orthodoxy are *the saints themselves!*: their relics, certain miraculous icons, the holy oil associated with a holy pilgrimage site.

In Greece, there are many icons which are considered miraculous. While that doesn't sit comfortably with non-Orthodox sensibility at first, one must realize that it is not the particular piece of sacred art itself which is miraculous, but the particular Saint or Virgin Mary which is depicted, as well as the circumstance (usually Divine) in which it came to rest at its pilgrimage site, and the piety of the people who humbly venerate it. Infact, although I personally believe in the miracles of other Christian traditions, such as Lourdes, the miracles of healing associated with Orthodoxy far outnumber the 'statistics' I have read.

My gosh, I know personally of sooo, so, so many miracles associated with these 'healers' of Orthodoxy...many of them are healing of body, many are healing of soul, many are healing financial calamity, many are healing of employment calamity, many of them are for conception, etc.

In Cephalonia every year, for instance, the ill go to the procession of the relics of the island's patron, Ierasimos, for healing, and every year, just as the pool of Bethesda in Scripture, there are always a few miracles of healing.

These saints are the healers in Orthodoxy. Do not discount them! :-)

--Alice

Paul Cowan

16-07-2011, 03:26 AM

Perhaps, as my post above with the countless miracles of St. Nektarios attest to, the 'healers' in Orthodoxy are *the saints themselves!*: --Alice

I am very much intrigued and in awe of the history and life of St. Nektarios. Alice, thank you for the links. I had lunch with a friend the very next day after you posted these links and as incredible as this may sound, he brought me an icon of St. Nektarios and cotton swabs with holy oil from him. I now also have his Akathist. I know all ths is NOT magic, but I feel "odd" at the same time praying for and annointing my wife in the hope of a miracle. At what point does it change from cautious skepticism to full blown faith in the potential miracle.

I read alot of people who were healed who approached icons "in faith". How does one get this 'faith" in 21st century America? I think I am between the two extremes with a giddy hopeful anticipation of a magical event. I have a relationship with St. Panteleimon as I venerated his relics at his monastery. Please pray for my faith to be solidified and for my weaknesses and unbelief. Like the 4 friends who let down the sick man through the roof, it was through their faith the man was healed.

Paul

Thomas Brunson

16-07-2011, 04:56 AM

"We are living in a fallen world and we have illness because of our fallen human nature. God created man perfectly so this illness and death we have to face is alien to our humanity. Through God the Holy Spirit remains with us in this world and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are in the Holy Orthodox Church. To obtain them we must totally submit ourselves to God, confess all of our sins regularly, and approach God with great Humility, and serve Him and give Glory, honor, worship and praise to God frequently every day.

Sometimes when we are having spiritual problems, or physical problems we can't deal with very well, we must make some necessary changes. I believe that this is best done if we go to a Monastery and ask to live there for awhile with the Monks or Nuns and receive spiritual guidance, confession as well as join in the prayer life of the Monastics. We need to learn to approach God in the way that is acceptable to Him, and just being Orthodox is no guarantee that will just happen. We must develope the right attitudes, and learn from the Monastics how to pray and have union and communion with God.

I have found sometimes in parish life that we tend to be more relaxed in our spiritual effort and it becomes more secular than spiritual. In the church I attend people talk during Liturgy and other services and they are doing great spiritual harm to themselves as well as disturbing others who are praying. If we truly love God and go to Church to worship Him as a community we must do so with all our mind, all our heart, all our soul and body. We must also do this same very thing in our prayer life at home. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you".

+Thomas"

Alice

16-07-2011, 05:07 AM

Dear Paul,

Faith, I think, is simply hope and lack of despair...
Faith is asking and asking the Father through the Saints and the Theotokos, for His mercy on a situation, like your wife Leah's illness.
The mere fact that you are looking for help from God for her is, in my humble opinion, faith.
Praying to a saint, like Nektarios, is kind of like praying to a dear, comforting and loving spiritual father/ Elder (infact, when I was upset when I lived in Greece, I would take a visit to his grave in Aegina just to be close to him and to talk to him and to pray to him there, and I would refer to him as 'my Geronta in Heaven'). Praying to the Panaghia, the Mother of God, is like praying to a loving mother or sweet grandmother or understanding aunt; she is someone who will take you in her arms and comfort you and understands your sorrows.
Do not feel strange annointing Leah. Doing so, is a great sign of love, and pure love like that is dear to God. Say a prayer to the Saint at the same time. This humility and this vulnerability of heart is very dear to the Lord.
Do not give up. Perhaps her healing will not be complete, but many times God will make a situation so much better and so much more bearable, and when you look back you will consider even that a miracle!

With love in Christ and prayers for you both,
Alice (I hope that I made sense)

Margaret S.

16-07-2011, 01:18 PM

Dear Paul,

I always remember Leah in my prayers but now I will start saying the akathist to St Luke the Wonderworker just for her. Also St Alexis of Ugine because he is the saint for those who need patience in adversity. I have just found his akathist in French and my translation is very, very slow but she will be in my prayers to him too. I will also give her name to my confessor, if you don't mind, as I value his prayers greatly.

I have always revered our Mother Leah. There is something in the fact that Christ was descended not from the beloved Rachel but from Leah who wept.

With love to you both,
Margaret

Owen Jones

16-07-2011, 01:21 PM

There are two levels of the spiritual life. The first level is when we humble ourselves to ask God to remove our difficulties. The second level is when we thank God for our difficulties.

Owen Jones

16-07-2011, 01:22 PM

The second level is even more powerful than the first.

Kyrill Bolton

16-07-2011, 03:27 PM

Alice, I love this "Faith, I think, is simply hope and lack of despair..." Simple, direct and it speaks volumes.

If I ever get to Greece the first place I want to visit is the monastery on Aegina (you might pray that this happens someday.)

Effie Ganatsios

16-07-2011, 04:55 PM

Dearest Leah, it is so wonderful to finally "speak" with you.

You write :

"When I look back over my whole life, it has always been similar to that experience. God has ALWAYS taken GOOD care of me. I do not know why my faith crumbles EVERY TIME I experience tribulation. I guess it is the human condition."

"I really am so far from where I once was. I just can't seem to find it inside myself to do the work it takes to get back there again, or to move forward. I can't seem to care again. I want a magic pill, or, if you will, a healer, to fix it all for me so that I don't have to climb back up the stairs myself, even though I rode the elevator down here willingly."

From personal experience I know that when we are in pain, everything seems hopeless. When I get e.g. migraines everything is dark, I doubt my Lord, I think that all doctors are idiots, etc. etc. When the pain finally goes, I am more optimistic. I am also a diabetic and it seems, sometimes, that I have a death wish. I read something about this a while back and wrote it in my journal : "Overeating : It can be a form of slow suicide, the same urge to self destruction as alcoholism, or drugs, or smoking. And dangerous driving. "

Also : "they know where they are going. They know they are going towards death."

The above excerpts are from a book about the Samaritans in England.

I also abuse pain-killers, specifically Panadol.

Why? I have no idea.

The conclusion I have come to is that we are all similar. It's so easy for those who are in good health to expect us to "control" ourselves, to discipline ourselves, and to act cheerful and hopeful. But, in the night, when the pain and fear attack us, we can only turn our faces to the wall and converse with our Lord who is always beside us, no matter whether we acknowledge Him or not. I am truly humbled by those who live each day with the Lord, who talk with Him each day, who accept whatever life hurls at them and continue.

Everything I have written seems so shallow but I don't really know what else to say.

I will continue to pray for you, Leah, as Mother Gavriela has told us to.

"Visualize the person you are praying for at the feet of Christ, praying on their knees before Him.

"My Lord, give him/her Your Pardon, give him Your Mercy, give him Light, give him Health of body and soul. Make Your Will
manifest itself in his Life."

Effie

Eric Peterson

21-07-2011, 08:23 PM

There are many, I think, who have great faith and hope in God, and who are not healed. As that is the case, it can be a bit overwhelming for someone who is sick to be told so many stories of miracles. Miracles do happen, but they are exceptional. The greater miracle, I think, is that people can bear the burden of illness without despairing. I think the power of God is even more present in such cases than in those miraculous healings which we see as such big deals.