Visions of guardian angels

[Sunny]

Hello to all,
Does anyone know sources or information about Guardian Angels? I searched for old threads, but my question was not answered (or at least I didn't find it). I read recently that your guardian angel is given to you at Baptism. Does that mean that my grandchildren (not baptized, not Orthodox), do not have a guardian angel watching over them? We pray for their safety and protection, but I thought small ones had angels that looked after them. Does anyone know about this?
Thank you,
Sunny

[Kosta]

Orthodoxy believes that a guardian angel is given at baptism. And that this angel has similarities to the person its entrusted to protect (acts 12.14-15).

In jewish custom the Archangel Michael was a guardian angel for all jewish children (cf. Dan 12.1)

Its possible that all children have guardian angels. There is biblical support for this, but not for adult non-believers. Perhaps guardian angels for children are temporary till they reach a certain age of maturity (another words when they begin to sin) and/ or the angel becomes permanent upon baptism. (Pure speculation on my part.)

"Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for i say to you that in heaven, their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven." -Matt 18.10

[Nicolaj]

Dear Sunny,

All children are specially cared for by the Lord! And it is the teaching of the Church that if a child dies their souls go straight to heaven!

I will try to find out more about the angels with the children as seen in orthodoxy. Or maybe there can help us a priest here?
In Christ,

Nicolaj

[Fr Raphael Vereshack]

Hello to all,
Does anyone know sources or information about Guardian Angels? I searched for old threads, but my question was not answered (or at least I didn't find it). I read recently that your guardian angel is given to you at Baptism. Does that mean that my grandchildren (not baptized, not Orthodox), do not have a guardian angel watching over them? We pray for their safety and protection, but I thought small ones had angels that looked after them. Does anyone know about this?
Thank you,
Sunny

I think that the angels as messengers of God's providence always watch over and try to help us.

Of course at Baptism these angels could be especially active in our regard. But the angelic forces are always active even apart from Baptisms.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Sunny]

Thank you to all for this most helpful and encouraging information.
Sunny

[Makarios Wong]

Can I ask a question on guardian angels here?

I am a convert from Roman Catholic Church, when I was a Catholic, I was taught that everyone has his own guardian angel, whether he is a Christian or not. But I found in Orthodox Church, someone said everyone has his guardian angel, but someone said only Christian has. So I want know what is the teaching of our Orthodox church on it.

Because I am a Chinese. There is no book I can consult it, there is also no one I can ask, so I hope that some one I answer my question in detail. I also want to know what the fathers of Church said about it.

[Father David Moser]

someone said everyone has his guardian angel, but someone said only Christian has.

What I have been taught is that a guardian angel is joined to us at our baptism. Prior to that time, God does protect us, very possibly through the ministry of the angelic host, however, there is no specific angel that is assigned or joined to us.

Fr David Moser

[Effie Ganatsios]

"Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 18:10).

Our Daily Prayers

"Prayer to Your Guardian Angel

O Angel of Christ, holy guardian and protector of my soul and body, forgive me of everything I have done to offend you every day, and protect me from all influence and temptation of the evil one. May I never offend God by my sin. Pray for me to the Lord, that He may make me worthy of the grace of the All-holy Trinity, and of the Most Blessed Theotokos, and of all the Saints. Amen. "

"The belief that God sends a spirit to watch every individual was common in Ancient Greek philosophy, and was alluded to by Plato in Phaedo, 108."

"In Acts 12:12-15 there is another allusion to the belief that a specific angel is assigned to protect each individual. After Peter had been escorted out of prison by an angel, he went to the home of 'Mary the mother of John, also called Mark'. The servant girl, Rhoda, recognized his voice and ran back to tell the group that Peter was there. However the group replied, "It must be his angel"' (12:15)."

I added the Ancient Greek reference because I have been reading two of Archimandrite Vasileios' books. He is the Abbot of Iveron Monastery, Holy Mountain. He frequently refers to Ancient Greek philosophers.

Effie

[Effie Ganatsios]

Hebrews 1:14 "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent to minister for them, who shall receive the inheritance of salvation?" This is the function of the guardian angels; they are to lead us, if we wish it, to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Orthodox terminology

"Angels. (Gr. Angelos , "messenger"). Bodiless beings, purely spirits, created by God before man. They are superior in nature and intelligence to man; and, like man, they have understanding and free will. Some of them are appointed to guard the faithful (guardian angels). Angels are grouped in nine orders ( tagmata ) as follows: Angels; Archangels; Principalities; Powers; Virtues; Dominations; Thrones; Cherubim; Seraphim. In the Orthodox worship, every Monday is dedicated to the angels."

"The Fathers believed that every believer has his own "guardian angel"; the angels pray for us, sing, and unceasingly glorify the Holy Trinity. They also serve as examples that people should follow."

The Office of the Great Vespers of Pentecost



"From Your holy dwelling place look down upon the people present here in expectation of Your rich mercy; visit us in Your goodness; free us from the oppression of the Evil One; make our lives secure within Your holy and sacred laws. Entrust Your people to a faithful guardian angel; gather us all into Your kingdom; grant forgiveness to those who hope in You; remit them and us our sins; cleanse us through the work of Your Holy Spirit; put an end to the wiles of the enemy."


How beautiful our church services are!

The whole service can be found here http://www.goarch.org/chapel/liturgical_texts/pentecost_kneel

[Makarios Wong]

Thanks for all the answers.

I found different father said differently on it.

Blessed Theophylact written in his explanation of the gosple of St. Matthew: "Every believer, and indeed, every one of us human beings, has a guardian angel." (p155 of the explanation of gospel St. Matthew, Chrysostom Press)

St. Jerome expressed it: "how great the dignity of the soul, since each one has from his birth an angel commissioned to guard it." (Comm. in Matt., xviii, lib. II).

In the book of Orthodox Dogmatic Theology, protopresbyter Michael Pomazansky said: "The Orthodox Church believes that every man has his own guardian angel, if he has not put him away from himself by an impious life."

But there are other fathers said differently:

St. Basil, however (Homily on Psalm 43), and possibly St. Chrysostom (Homily 3 on Colossians) would hold that only Christians were so privileged.

So, I want to know what is the teaching of the Orthodox Church on it. Why different fathers said differently?

[Olga Hatz]

Hi All,

It has been told to me that a guardian angel can leave you if you live a life of sin. Is that true? What sin do they leave you for?

Sorry for my ignorance!

Olya

[Herman Blaydoe]

So, I want to know what is the teaching of the Orthodox Church on it. Why different fathers said differently?

We do not require "infallibility" in our patriarchs or in our saints. This is one of those areas that Holy Scripture itself is less than definitive, so there is room for differing pious opinions.

[Paul Cowan]

Hi All,

It has been told to me that a guardian angel can leave you if you live a life of sin. Is that true? What sin do they leave you for?

Sorry for my ignorance!

Olya

I don't know that they leave a person in as much as never returning. but I do think they remove themselves a distance which may be great if the person does not correct themselves through repentence. I think they are always "assigned" to our miserable selves and during the course of our lives, they draw near and not so near, but never "leave" us.

[Panayota K.]

Hello to all!
I don't remember if it was in this thread the question about our guardian angel and our souls after dying. Anyway, I received this email and I think it is the best answer of all!

10 Ιουνίου, 2009 — Vatopaidi Friend

English : Yesterday,we received from our Serbian friends, an e-mail with the following text and video attached. We do not know anything about this video, nor are we in any position to explain what is happening. We would like you to draw your own conclusions.

“This is something very unusual I’ve never seen it before! One believer was trying to make a photo of the sunset when he noticed a very unusual light on the left and started recording it. It was an Angel taking the soul of one man – when they went to that building one man had really died! Have a look!”

http://vatopaidi.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/%cf%83%cf%85%ce%b3%ce%ba%ce%bb%ce%bf%ce%bd%ce%b9%c f%83%cf%84%ce%b9%ce%ba%cf%8c-%ce%b2%ce%af%ce%bd%cf%84%ce%b5%ce%bf-amazing-video/

[Nina]

Hi All,

It has been told to me that a guardian angel can leave you if you live a life of sin. Is that true? What sin do they leave you for?

Sorry for my ignorance!

Olya

There are some Fathers like St. Niphon who have had visions of guardian angels and for instance one of them was staying outside of a house of ill-repute and holding his head on his hands and crying. When the saint asked the guardian angel said his assigned person was inside that house at that moment. So I guess the GA was waiting outside therefore the person had distanced himself through sin from his GA. Now imagine if the roof collapsed or smth happened and he needed the help of his GA. These things are all mysteries... I guess sinful places distance us from angels who can't stay and watch us sin... also our sins make our GA very sad and they turn their back and cry for us, or they keep distant when we sin because they can not stand to see our souls perish through sin and also they have nothing to do with sin.

[Eric Peterson]

The Old Rite Russian prayer book has two very good canons to the Guardian Angel, especially the second is very good. There is also an akathist to the Guardian Angel.

[Paul Cowan]

Do you happen to have a copy of this Akathist? I have one to Michael the Archangel, but not to the Guardian Angel.

Paul

[D. W. Dickens]

I know there are a couple of prayers to guardian angels out there. But is that the only proper way to address your guardian angel? Apart from getting weird looks from people, is it wrong to speak with your guardian angel more plainly?

[Alice]

Apart from getting weird looks from people, is it wrong to speak with your guardian angel more plainly?

Just do it in private and you won't get wierd looks! *wink*

I think, personally, that it is fine to tell your guardian angel 'thanks' once in a while. You know, until your post, D.W. I hadn't done that outloud. Now I have. :-)

[Andreas Moran]

Apart from getting weird looks from people, is it wrong to speak with your guardian angel more plainly?

I have realised that many people appear to be talking to themselves but in fact are using some sort of mobile telephone device. I am of an age that means I can't quite get used to this but it does mean that one can chat with one's guardian angel and this is unlikely to attract quizzical looks. I do sometimes talk to myself anyway - I like good conversation.

[Alice]

I have realised that many people appear to be talking to themselves but in fact are using some sort of mobile telephone device. I am of an age that means I can't quite get used to this but it does mean that one can chat with one's guardian angel and this is unlikely to attract quizzical looks.

So true, Andreas!! They look positively silly, but I am getting used to it. The first time I saw a person doing this, I didn't even know that such contraptions existed, and since they are also quite inconspicuous, I thought the person was positively crazy! HEHEHE....


I do sometimes talk to myself anyway - I like good conversation

HEHEHE!!! You are 'too much' !!! :-)

-Alice
<*)))><

[Barbara J.]

English : Yesterday,we received from our Serbian friends, an e-mail with the following text and video attached. We do not know anything about this video, nor are we in any position to explain what is happening. We would like you to draw your own conclusions.

“This is something very unusual I’ve never seen it before! One believer was trying to make a photo of the sunset when he noticed a very unusual light on the left and started recording it. It was an Angel taking the soul of one man – when they went to that building one man had really died! Have a look!”

http://vatopaidi.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/%cf%83%cf%85%ce%b3%ce%ba%ce%bb%ce%bf%ce%bd%ce%b9%c f%83%cf%84%ce%b9%ce%ba%cf%8c-%ce%b2%ce%af%ce%bd%cf%84%ce%b5%ce%bf-amazing-video/
My heart yearns to believe that this video is genuine. My head tells me that this may be just an editing trick!

An Orthodox woman I know saw an angel as her first child was being born. She saw the angel for just a few seconds but the experience left an indelible impression.

My critical, questioning mind leads me into doubting.

Lord, have mercy on this video and grant all viewers discernment as to its veracity!

[Olga Hatz]

Thank for the answers to my questions :)

[Effie Ganatsios]

I know there are a couple of prayers to guardian angels out there. But is that the only proper way to address your guardian angel? Apart from getting weird looks from people, is it wrong to speak with your guardian angel more plainly?

Your heart speaks to God all day, why not to your Guardian Angel as well.

On the other hand, our Guardian Angel speaks to us a lot, we just don't listen.

Effie

[Effie Ganatsios]

Hello to all!
I don't remember if it was in this thread the question about our guardian angel and our souls after dying. Anyway, I received this email and I think it is the best answer of all!

10 Ιουνίου, 2009 — Vatopaidi Friend

English : Yesterday,we received from our Serbian friends, an e-mail with the following text and video attached. We do not know anything about this video, nor are we in any position to explain what is happening. We would like you to draw your own conclusions.

“This is something very unusual I’ve never seen it before! One believer was trying to make a photo of the sunset when he noticed a very unusual light on the left and started recording it. It was an Angel taking the soul of one man – when they went to that building one man had really died! Have a look!”

http://vatopaidi.wordpress.com/2009/06/10/%cf%83%cf%85%ce%b3%ce%ba%ce%bb%ce%bf%ce%bd%ce%b9%c f%83%cf%84%ce%b9%ce%ba%cf%8c-%ce%b2%ce%af%ce%bd%cf%84%ce%b5%ce%bf-amazing-video/

A tree is known by its fruit and a man by his deeds.

I would not trust anything that originated in this monastery.

Effie

[Nina]

A tree is known by its fruit and a man by his deeds.

I would not trust anything that originated in this monastery.

Effie

Effie, do not believe the Greek media, or any other media for that matter. The Elder of this monastery that just passed away was a holy person.

PS This being said I also think that the video lacks the genuine awe by the people filming it that would arise in such event. Also towards the end you can hear in Greek the lady directing the videographer to the spot of the "angels" again since he started filming on the left side the nature. I mean if I see angels in my video I would never move the camera from the place!

[Nina]

PS This being said I also think that the video lacks the genuine awe by the people filming it that would arise in such event. Also towards the end you can hear in Greek the lady directing the videographer to the spot of the "angels" again since he started filming on the left side the nature. I mean if I see angels in my video I would never move the camera from the place!

He he he no there was no lady in Mount Athos (for my friend who was wondering). The video is posted on a website which has the name of the monastery but it does not mean the video was taken in Mount Athos. And this point brings us in the other logical statement: everyone can start or post something on the internet under the address of Vatopaidi.

[Panayota K.]

Dear Barbara and Nina,

I share your doubts for the video. The lack of awe and the man NOT focusing on the angel are very suspicious. However even the slightest possibility of being real, made me think: when I die, who will claim for my soul? Needless to say that the answer is obvious. So I started trying harder and praying a little more. Overall I benefited by watching it- regardless of its authenticity.

Panayota

[Nina]

Panayota,

First I did not want to give judgment on the video since I do not know. However since Vatopaidi monastery was mentioned as a place not trustworthy I gave my opinion about the monastery. And tried to set aside the video from the monastery - and truly there is no connection. See the video can be used in positive ways as you mentioned to move you to praying and care for your salvation. However when an entire monastery's name is mentioned in a not so positive light, it is appropriate to speak up as not to allow the video which may be a hoax to be connected to that monastery. The media has made so much damage to that monastery and we do not need more of it.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Panayota,

First I did not want to give judgment on the video since I do not know. However since Vatopaidi monastery was mentioned as a place not trustworthy I gave my opinion about the monastery. And tried to set aside the video from the monastery - and truly there is no connection. See the video can be used in positive ways as you mentioned to move you to praying and care for your salvation. However when an entire monastery's name is mentioned in a not so positive light, it is appropriate to speak up as not to allow the video which may be a hoax to be connected to that monastery. The media has made so much damage to that monastery and we do not need more of it.

Nina, the media reports the news. The media does not rob the Greek people of millions of euros. Criminals do that!

Christ had quite a lot to say about Pharisees when he lived on this earth. Nothing much has changed. Elder Paisios and Metropolitan Augustus Kadiotis of Florina also had a lot to say about those in the Church who like luxury. Both are holy men who lived their daily lives according to Christ's instructions and who were not afraid to voice their opinions. Augustus Kadiotis is still alive and well at 102. I have read some of his books in English in our Public Library. A courageous man who led the fight against the Nazi Germans in our city during WWII.

Ephraim, the former prior of Batopaidi is not such a man. It is easy for criminals to blame the media for what? For being caught!



ERT News - government channel

"Chief Prosecutor Kyriakos Karoutsos, who is investigating the Vatopedi scandal, charged all parties responsible with six felonies and two misdemeanors. As many as 30 people face serious offences, while another 33, including members of the monastery's council, the head and members of the Council of the State, were exempted.

According to information, chief monk Efraim, monk Arsenios, the lawyers and notaries that handled the case, as well as members of the Hellenic Public Real Estate Corporation and the Council of the State, were not exempted.

The charges pressed relate to money laundering, misappropriation at the expense of the Greek State, breach of power, instigation, aiding and abetting the above activities."


That there are holy men in Vatopedi monastery and in every monastery is not in dispute. We should not close our eyes, however, to others who take advantage of their positions.


Effie

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100006_29/11/2008_102587

Ephraim forced to resign.

The newspaper Kathimerini is one of our best.

About the video itself :

Whether this video was taken at Vatopedi or not, I agree that if the person taking the video actually believed that what he was seeing was an angel, he would not have been moving his camera all over the place. He would not have been able to take his eyes off the miracle he was seeing in front of him.

[Nina]

Yes Effie, it is important not to generalise about the entire monastery. Since I am not there to judge and I am not in the hearts and minds of those people the news mention, I can only give them the benefit of a doubt at least and think of our beloved St. Nectarios that was much persecuted and much dirt was thrown on his persona... I tend to do this... maybe it is wrong, maybe I am naive. However the world looks a much better place when we give someone accused the benefit of the doubt. Christ was accused also...

[Alice]

As I understand from other monks in the U.S., there was a land swap and that it was no big deal. If I swap/sell my house because someone needs the land, but get the better deal, is it wrong?

Monasteries feed people and need donations to exist. I don't see any of the elders or monks living the high life.

I wouldn't trust so much the angle, the rants, and the twists of a secular, Church hating media--whether it is in the U.S. (where any chance they get to destroy the Roman Catholic church, they take it) or in Greece (where they do not love the Orthodox church)...

Like Nina, I like to give the benefit of the doubt, especially to our monasteries. You know, there have been many occasions where the evil one has tried to destroy the innocent and the holy. In the U.S. there once great slander and controversy against a former archbishop and also against Father Ephraim and his monasteries who are both innocent of the accusations. There were many, many people who believed the lies.

Also, I understand that the current Bishop of Limassol, the holy 'Father Maximos' (not his real name) of Kyriakos Markides book 'A Mountain of Silence' was also demonically slandered and brought to court over a shameful accusation (much like what happened to St. Nektarios). He fasted and prayed and the evil one's lies were uncovered, and he went on to become Bishop, which obviously God had intended for him to become.

The media wants to believe ugly lies and slander about those who are holy. The famous evangelist Billy Graham once said, 'if everyone likes you, you should take a good look in the mirror'. Indeed, those who are notorious and sinful generally do not have so many people willing to destroy them.

There is nothing the evil one wants more than for people to lose their faith in monasticism and Orthodoxy, and therefore, losing their faith in God's avenue to salvation...

Just a thought.

In Christ,
Alice

[Effie Ganatsios]

Nina and Alice, you are both right. And more trusting than I am. Forgive me, but I cannot agree with you in this case. I hope that I am proven wrong, but I watched this man arrogantly refuse to co-operate with the Justice Department. It was as if he considered himself to be above the law.


That the media is anti-religion is a fact. That many people in the past have been falsely accused is also a fact.

But, in this case, I am going to wait and see what happens in a court of law. Money laundering is not OK, neither are vast amounts of money in off-shore companies. How this is related to charity I cannot see.

I am very cynical. An example. In the past, when the little baskets for our church donations came around, at the most people would give a 50 drachmae note. Most of the old ladies would give 5,10, or 20 drachmaes.

Our new Metropolitan (Paulus, imported from the US) on numerous occasions has told us that he does not want to hear the sound of coins clinking. He wants us to give only paper money................

1 euro = 345 drachmaes

The lowest euro bank note is 5 euros

5 X 345 = 1.725,- drachmaes

This amount is definitely not something most people can contribute each week, especially old ladies on low pensions.

Everything is money to this man. Even our priests are complaining because of the instructions they have been given by him.

But, as my husband tells me, we got to church to commune with God and not to admire the priests.

Effie

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

Let us try to return the discussion of this thread to its topic: guardian angels.

INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Alice]

Dear Effie,

We can certainly agree that there is often too much emphasis on money in the Church. That your Metropolitan has come from the U.S. does not surprise me in that regard. The emphasis on raising money and therefore, having to pander and flatter those who have money in the U.S. is one of our great sins. There are those who say "but how will we keep up with the exorbitant bills needed to run our beautiful churches and community halls otherwise." I agree that they need money, but the way about getting it is not always proper and is often scandalous. Imagine the delight many of us had when we heard the former (slandered and ousted) Archbishop refreshingly say in his enthronement speech that he will show as much respect to the old widow in black that can only spare a quarter as he will to the rich. Ofcourse this was scandalous to the rich who love being treated like some kind of church royalty. I have seen people be ignored by priests they were speaking to when a 'rich' member walks by who is more 'important' to the priest.

Then there are those in the U.S. who say: "why are people giving so much money to Elder Ephraim's monasteries and not to the parishes?" Well, the answer is this...people are sick of this 'respecter of person's' mentality which dominates the Greek Archdiocese and they are seeking true spiritual hospitals where everyone is treated equally according to Christ's teachings. A rich man once asked my Elder if he could donate a large sum of money to the monastery. The Elder answered "ofcourse, but we will not put your name as a donor anywhere." The man did not like that and withdrew his offer. So instead, our monasteries are built and thriving on the quarters of the common man, because the common man is just as important to them as the rich man.

Your husband is very wise. We must not be scandalized. We must not put our faith in men, because although the Church, the Bride of Christ is immaculate and sinless, there will always be people in it who are sinful. The problem is that when the media (and/or slanderers) riles people against those who are perhaps sinful ,and even those who are not, it scandalizes those whose faith is weak at the time. I learned this myself the hard way in my own faith journey.

We need to focus on The Church as the Bride of Christ and put blinders on to those clergy and laity (within the Church) who have sins of abuse, greed, lust, lies, averice, pompousness, averice, etc....

With love in Christ,
Alice

OOPS! Just saw your post, Father Deacon Matthew. I promise not to continue....
May our guardian angels protect us from scandal in our faith lives!! :-)

[Alice]

Has anyone here had a close brush with death?

I have and our guardian angels were surely vigilant in delivering us from the hour which was obviously not our time to go.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Alice, my son has and so has my cousin.

My son has never spoken to me about his experience, or rather what he experienced. The only thing I know is that when he woke up, his eyes were frightened. This only lasted a second but I can still see them and it hurts to think of him like this. One good thing that has emerged from this experience is that he is a stronger person than he was before it happened.

My cousin nearly died - he was saved at the last moment by an "earthly" angel, who took matters into his own hands and operated on him.

We are very close, and he talked about his experience with me.

The strange thing was that he felt removed emotionally from his family. He told me that he felt nothing - no regrets, no longing to stay here. He felt comfortable as if he were wrapped in a warm cocoon. He was ready to leave.
I still can't understand this. He lost a 16 year old son a few
years ago. Perhaps he wanted to be with him. This is just something that I thought of myself, as he didn't mention his lost son at all.

Men don't usually talk about guardian angels.

Effie

[Alice]

I can't talk about it...but God chose my husband to be home and to become alerted, and he saved my life. I had a three minute window between life and death and I was into the last half minute.

Our guardian angels definitely work through others. I have heard of dogs saving lives and I am sure that it is because guardian angels are working through them.

Also, once when my son was a 13 month old baby, I was feeding him in his high chair and our kitchen floor was hard unglazed ceramic tile. I turned around to get something for a second, and it seems that he squirmed a little too much and was in the process of falling down head first from the high chair, but time seemed to stand still--literally--and I found the time to catch him. I will never forget how I felt that time stood still--it was surreal--or rather, heavenly. Thank you, dear guardian angels!

Alice

[Paul Cowan]

Has anyone here had a close brush with death?

I have and our guardian angels were surely vigilant in delivering us from the hour which was obviously not our time to go.

My wife is diabetic. I knew nothing of diabetes when we got married, but she tried to get me up to speed. She taught me how to give her a glucose shot in case her blood sugar ever dropped dangerously low. She has had great success at controlling her blood sugars her whole life so I was not concerned or much paying attention.

One night she started kicking me as we slept. I was about to punch her, when I rolled over and saw her face was contorted and she looked out of her mind. I panicked.

Somehow waking from a deep sleep, I remembered what to do. I tested her sugar (it was 24) I grabbed the glucose syringe and with great difficulty got her rolled over and gave her the shot. (Have I ever mentioned how much I HATE!!!!!! needles?????) After about 30 minutes she started coming around and started looking at me like I was crazy for the way I was coddling her. She had no idea what had happened or why. It took another hour for her to recover and come to terms with what happened and what I did.

This has happened 2 additional times in our marriage but never this bad.

I know my wife is here for my salvation, otherwise God would not permit her to hang around and suffer will all the ailments she has. I have no idea what my purpose for her is. God's will be done. Without divine intervention that night, she would have gone into a diabetic coma as her mother did a year before we married and died as her mother did 2 weeks after we married.

Leah thinks her mother hung on long enough to make sure someone would be there to take care of her daughter. She was at our wedding and then she passed away.

Mans' ways are not God's way.

Paul

[Effie Ganatsios]

I can't talk about it...but God chose my husband to be home and to become alerted, and he saved my life. I had a three minute window between life and death and I was into the last half minute.

Our guardian angels definitely work through others. I have heard of dogs saving lives and I am sure that it is because guardian angels are working through them.

Also, once when my son was a 13 month old baby, I was feeding him in his high chair and our kitchen floor was hard unglazed ceramic tile. I turned around to get something for a second, and it seems that he squirmed a little too much and was in the process of falling down head first from the high chair, but time seemed to stand still--literally--and I found the time to catch him. I will never forget how I felt that time stood still--it was surreal--or rather, heavenly. Thank you, dear guardian angels!

Alice

Alice, do you believe that our guardian angels use humans to help us?

This reminds me of an anecdote that I often remember.

A very pious lady was stranded up in a tree during a horrendous flood. She firmly believed that God would save her and was praying furiously.

A man in a boat passed and tried to get her to come out of the tree and into his boat.
"No", she said. "The Lord will save me."

The man informed one of the rescue teams working in the area. They were also unsuccessful. "The Lord will rescue me", the lady said, interrupting her prayers.

A helicopter came along next, again without success. The crew received the same answer.

The lady drowned. She was very indignant and asked God, why He hadn't saved her. He replied "I tried to save you three times, and each time you refused my help."

A wonderful doctor and the emergency room staff at our local hospital saved my son. A doctor, who was not supposed to be taking care of my cousin, saved him.
Both lives were "hanging by a string" as we say here. And let me just say here that in both cases the incompetence of their primary doctors proved nearly fatal for both.

Perhaps we need to stop fantasizing about heavenly apparitions suddenly appearing before us and look at things more realistically. There are angels all around us.

I remember reading about Elder Paisios when he was in hospital just before he died. His doctor - at the Theagenion hospital in Thessaloniki - was upset one day. His patients suffered a lot with their cancer therapy and then died. He wondered whether he was living his life as God intended. Elder Paisios reassured him that God was working through him.

Effie

[Alice]

I know a Greek Orthodox priest in the U.S. His older brother is a surgeon, though not very religious, and as the good priest said "a bit of a know it all as the older brother". One day the two brothers in these very different vocations got to talking with a little more understanding to each other, and the surgeon confessed to the priest that he often feels that it is literally not his hands that are performing the surgery but rather that it is God who is.

I do believe that there are angels all around us, and that God puts those angels to be there or to work through others at just the right time and place...as was the case with your son, your cousin, and myself...

When my nephew was about two or three, back in the 1980's, he and his mother and aunt who live in Greece were sitting and eating on the prokimea of a Greek island. My nephew started to choke (the real choke that will kill you in three minutes) on a piece of calamari. He couldn't breathe, cough, etc. They were 'freaking out' and screaming, because they didn't know what to do. At just that moment, an American woman tourist, a complete stranger, was walking by who knew the Heimlich Maneuver. She quickly ran over and said that she would try her best but she couldn't be accountable and asked if she could she try to save him. She then quickly grabbed him and performed the miraculous Heimlich Maneuver--the calamari came flying out at the final seconds of his window. I do believe that God put that woman there at that moment because no one in Greece really knows what the Heimlich is, or atleast they did not back in the 1980's, but we had heard alot about it in the United States on television, magazines, etc...even our restaurants are required by law to have a diagram showing how to perform it should it be needed.

O Theos na filaei !
(May God protect)
AMEN...

[John W.]

One day I was standing on the sidewalk waiting for the crossing signal. I felt a hand on my shoulder. I looked down and saw, attached to the hand, a tiny, hunched, old man leaning on a cane. Then with surprising strength, he pulled me backwards so that I almost fell. When I regained my balance, I looked down at him and started asking,"What's the matter...", when a bus suddenly swerved off the street, jumped the curb and ran over the very spot where I was standing moments earlier. The driver never paused and kept gunning down the street - probably talking on his cellphone or texting. I was shocked at the nearness of death. I turned to thank old man, but he was already hobbling very quickly across the road. I was still staring open mouth at his back when he looked over his shoulder at me with a big smile on his face. I always wonder whether this man was an angel in disguise. Whoever he was, he saved my life.



I wouldn't trust so much the angle, the rants, and the twists of a secular, Church hating media--whether it is in the U.S. (where any chance they get to destroy the Roman Catholic church, they take it) or in Greece (where they do not love the Orthodox church)...Like Nina, I like to give the benefit of the doubt, especially to our monasteries.

Me too.

The Fathers of Vatopaidi made a case for their innocence that has been barely noted in the press.

You can read it here:

http://vatopaidi.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/filladio-immb-english.pdf

Worth noting are the last two paragraphs:

“Although many and varied interests are involved in the case, with their own financial and political agendas, it is hard to ignore the fact that the real purpose behind the turmoil is the defamation of institutions and the separation of Church and State administration. Some people have seized the opportunity to strike at the Church by fanning the flames in order to damage monasticism and to shake society’s faith in Greek, Christian ideals.

“A monk’s relations with other people are permeated by the Orthodox Patristic principles of selflessness and genuine love. Pilgrims to the Holy Mountain have experience of this love. They take this spiritual leaven from the Monastery back to their families, their parishes and in this way the family, society and the world are blessed. We ask that you, too, pray that Christ and His All-Pure Mother, to whom our Monastery is dedicated, will provide a blessed resolution to our present trial.”

[Nina]

Going to town one day to sell some small articles, Abba Agathon met a cripple on the roadside, paralyzed in his legs, who asked him where he was going. Abba Agathon replied, “To town, to sell some things.” The other said to him, “Do me the favor of carrying me there.” So he carried him to town. The cripple said to him, “Put me down where you sell your wares.” He did so. When he had sold an article, the cripple asked, “What did you sell it for?” and he told him the price. The other said, “Buy me a cake,” and he bought it. When Abba Agathon sold a second article, the sick man asked, “How much did you sell it for?” And he told him the price of it. Then the other said, “Buy me this,” and he bought it.
When Agathon, having sold all his wares, wanted to go, he said to him, “Are you going back?” and he replied, “Yes.” Then he said,” Do me the favor of carrying me back to the place where you found me.” Once more picking him up, he carried him back to that place. Then the cripple said, “Agathon, you are filled with divine blessings, in heaven and on earth.” Raising his eyes, Agathon did not see a man; it was an angel of the Lord, come to test him.

[Barbara J.]

Nina and Alice, you are both right. But, as my husband tells me, we got to church to commune with God and not to admire the priests.

Effie
Thank you, Effie, for that quote concerning priests. We are all deeply flawed, fallible human beings. I go to church to receive communion. I am not there to admire the priest!

Whenever I have trouble with the personalities at my church I always ask myself if I still feel that I can worship the Lord there and receive communion. I ask myself if my relationship with the Lord is growing. If I ever would answer "no" to the first question I will change parishes. If I ever say "no" to the latter question then I know that I have to work on my relationship with God, not change churches.

There is only one who is perfect and that is God. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the only perfect man.
We call our church on earth the Church Militant for many reasons!:)

[Nina]

Now I have missed this, but who said that I go to church to admire the priests? How do you know I go to church to admire the priest? Where did I say that I go to church to admire the priest? Is this even a serious statement? I am very upset with this because it presumes someone knows what is in my mind and heart. But why should I be upset? It is all aligned with the spirit shown. Thanks.

[Paul Cowan]

Now I have missed this, but who said that I go to church to admire the priests? How do you know I go to church to admire the priest? Where did I say that I go to church to admire the priest? Is this even a serious statement? I am very upset with this because it presumes someone knows what is in my mind and heart. But why should I be upset? It is all aligned with the spirit shown. Thanks.

It is called free-lance quoting. Barbara's quote of Effie's post is cut and paste. It quotes one line from the beginning and one line from the end of her post without referenceing the middle. My High school English teacher would not have been happy with this type of quote.

You seem to have gotten caught up in two separate meanings.

PC

[Nina]

Hmmm ok thank you Paul. Just do not want people to think I go to church for that kind of thing. A priest is really like a father in my eyes.

[Effie Ganatsios]

Now I have missed this, but who said that I go to church to admire the priests? How do you know I go to church to admire the priest? Where did I say that I go to church to admire the priest? Is this even a serious statement? I am very upset with this because it presumes someone knows what is in my mind and heart. But why should I be upset? It is all aligned with the spirit shown. Thanks.

Nina mou, don't be upset. I often am careless of the wording in my posts. I certainly did not mean to imply this.
I simply quoted what my husband says in response to my moaning and groaning about the negative actions of some of our priests.

Your posts are always full of your deep faith in God and they are an inspiration to me. I wish I could be more like you.

Your sister in Christ
Effie

[Barbara J.]

It is called free-lance quoting. Barbara's quote of Effie's post is cut and paste. It quotes one line from the beginning and one line from the end of her post without referenceing the middle. My High school English teacher would not have been happy with this type of quote.

You seem to have gotten caught up in two separate meanings.

PC
Effie, I heartily apologize. I am new to posting and relatively new to computers! I did err in my cut and paste. I certainly never meant to infere that YOU go to church to admire the priest.
Quite the opposite, I was agreeing with your husband!

Paul, the cut and paste was a typo. My college minor was English.
My profs would have understood that it was a typo!:) Again, please accept my apology!

[Alice]

HEHEHE! I am confused by everyone's confusion here! hehehe! :-)

I seem to be the only one that didn't misread anyone's cut and paste, or quote, intention, post, etc.!! *eek*

I think the problem in misunderstandings can occur when one hasn't read all the posts and the train of thought and discussion as it evolved, and jumps in on one or two of the last ones. I readily admit that I am guilty of not always reading everything myself, and I know that I have sometimes misread things until I went back over the thread...

Since my name was also in the aforementioned quote (*wink*), I understood exactly what Effie was trying to say in quoting her husband...(hehehe--yet another quote!)

Indeed, as Effie's husband said, we (and I don't mean me and Nina, I mean a generic 'we' as in everyone) should not go to church to admire the priest. Some may scandalize us, some may upset us, some we may not agree with, some we may find fault with--instead we (everyone) should go to Church for Church, since the priest is a human being, and a sinner just like the rest of us, albeit one who holds the important and most reverend position of the most Holy Priesthood as handed down by the Apostles.

Effie's husband is very wise. So many have left the Church because they haven't been as wise.

My priest in the U.S. once said, (and sometimes I need to remind myself of this, especially since spending so much time in a different country now) that if he was reappointed to another parish and we stopped going to church because we liked him and perhaps not the new priest, then *he has not done his job*...because it is his job to make us love Christ, and be drawn to Christ and the Church, and *not* to the priest!

May all the sisters in Christ on this thread be well and at peace--dear Effie, Nina, and Barbara! You are all such special women! My love to you all (and happy nameday to you Barbara?),

Alice

<*(((><

[Effie Ganatsios]

Effie, I heartily apologize. I am new to posting and relatively new to computers! I did err in my cut and paste. I certainly never meant to infere that YOU go to church to admire the priest.
Quite the opposite, I was agreeing with your husband!

Paul, the cut and paste was a typo. My college minor was English.
My profs would have understood that it was a typo!:) Again, please accept my apology!

Barbara,first of all, welcome to the forum. You are going to love it here. Secondly, I think you are confusing me with Nina. I liked your post but I didn't reply to it.

You are so completely right when you say : "Whenever I have trouble with the personalities at my church I always ask myself if I still feel that I can worship the Lord there and receive communion. I ask myself if my relationship with the Lord is growing. If I ever would answer "no" to the first question I will change parishes. If I ever say "no" to the latter question then I know that I have to work on my relationship with God, not change churches.

There is only one who is perfect and that is God. Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the only perfect man. "

My husband sometimes goes to a smaller church to worship on Sunday,instead of our parish church which is St. Demetrius. He told me that he loves the fact that things are simpler in this church. He is deeply religious but doesn't talk about it - the way I do.

Good to have you here.

Effie

[Effie Ganatsios]

HEHEHE! I am confused by everyone's confusion here! hehehe! :-)

I seem to be the only one that didn't misread anyone's cut and paste, or quote, intention, post, etc.!! *eek*

I think the problem in misunderstandings can occur when one hasn't read all the posts and the train of thought and discussion as it evolved, and jumps in on one or two of the last ones. I readily admit that I am guilty of not always reading everything myself, and I know that I have sometimes misread things until I went back over the thread...

Since my name was also in the aforementioned quote (*wink*), I understood exactly what Effie was trying to say in quoting her husband...(hehehe--yet another quote!)

Indeed, as Effie's husband said, we (and I don't mean me and Nina, I mean a generic 'we' as in everyone) should not go to church to admire the priest. Some may scandalize us, some may upset us, some we may not agree with, some we may find fault with--instead we (everyone) should go to Church for Church, since the priest is a human being, and a sinner just like the rest of us, albeit one who holds the important and most reverend position of the most Holy Priesthood as handed down by the Apostles.

Effie's husband is very wise. So many have left the Church because they haven't been as wise.

My priest in the U.S. once said, (and sometimes I need to remind myself of this, especially since spending so much time in a different country now) that if he was reappointed to another parish and we stopped going to church because we liked him and perhaps not the new priest, then *he has not done his job*...because it is his job to make us love Christ, and be drawn to Christ and the Church, and *not* to the priest!

May all the sisters in Christ on this thread be well and at peace--dear Effie, Nina, and Barbara! You are all such special women! My love to you all (and happy nameday to you Barbara?),

Alice

<*(((><

Alice, totally agree. We are lucky on this forum.

Alice, isn't St. Barbara celebrated towards the end of the year? I believe St. Barbara is the patron saint of the Greek navy or the army or something. I know that it's one of the most important feastdays here.

Euterpe

[Alice]

Alice, isn't St. Barbara celebrated towards the end of the year? I believe St. Barbara is the patron saint of the Greek navy or the army or something. I know that it's one of the most important feastdays here.


Oh, I asked Barbara about her nameday, not because the church calendar had anything to do yesterday with St. Barbara, but because on the top of the forum page it said: "Members celebrating their namedays today: Barbara"...and I forgot if it was simply a member named 'Barbara' or 'Barbara J'! -)

Alice

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear all,

I'm delighted the friendliness level is so high: but let's please return discussion in this thread to its topic of guardian angels.

The forum has PMs and social groups for friendly chat and the like; so if this thread could be kept to the patristic address of its topic, it would be appreciated by all.

Many thanks, INXC, Dcn Matthew

[Barbara J.]

Alice, totally agree. We are lucky on this forum.

Alice, isn't St. Barbara celebrated towards the end of the year? I believe St. Barbara is the patron saint of the Greek navy or the army or something. I know that it's one of the most important feastdays here.

Euterpe
Hi Euterpe,

thank you for welcoming me to the forum. I understand that we have to stay on topic but I wanted to respond to the question about St. Barbara at this point, as it does seem appropriate!

St. Barbara is the patroness of artillery. I'm sure she works right along side a person's guardian angel when they are in war zones. St. Barbara, also, promised that whoever asked for her intercession would not be subject to a sudden death but have time to repent before they passed away.

Is she the patroness of one of the Greek armed forces? I'd love to know!
Her feastday is celebrated on Dec. 4 in the U.S.

To the moderator: Thanks for indulging this aside!

[Effie Ganatsios]

Hi Euterpe,

thank you for welcoming me to the forum. I understand that we have to stay on topic but I wanted to respond to the question about St. Barbara at this point, as it does seem appropriate!

St. Barbara is the patroness of artillery. I'm sure she works right along side a person's guardian angel when they are in war zones. St. Barbara, also, promised that whoever asked for her intercession would not be subject to a sudden death but have time to repent before they passed away.

Is she the patroness of one of the Greek armed forces? I'd love to know!
Her feastday is celebrated on Dec. 4 in the U.S.

To the moderator: Thanks for indulging this aside!

Yes, Barbara, her feastday is celebrated on the 4th of December here as well. I looked it up, although I was certain it was towards the end of the year. My husband's niece Vana has her nameday then - Barbara is pronounced Varvara in Greek and Vana is a pet name for this name.

It's a very important feastday here, as I mentioned.
She is the patron saint of the Greek military.

Patron saints are like guardian angels in a way, aren't they?

Greece has three that I know of. St. George, St. Andrew and St. Nicholas.

Effie

[Olga]

Greece has three that I know of. St. George, St. Andrew and St. Nicholas.

These saints are also the patrons of Russia. Interesting.

Russians love St Nicholas so much, that there's a saying (never intended to be irreverent or sacrilegious): If anything happened to God, at least we've got St Nicholas.

[Andreas Moran]

Specifically, St George is patron saint of Moscow, and St Andrew of the Russian navy - his saltire cross is the ensign flown on all Russian navy ships. The Russians think the Holy Trinity is Christ, the Mother of God, and St Nicholas!

There is no patron saint of the UK - each country has its own. St George for England, St Andrew for Scotland, St David for Wales, and St Patrick for Northern Ireland.

[Nina]

St. Barbara is the patron Saint of soldiers because she is the saint we pray to against sudden death. When my mom was ill with cancer and I was not near I prayed to St. Barbara to pray to God not to let my mom die suddenly because I wanted to be near and say goodbye. She helped me. And thank God I found a church here where they have relic of St. Barbara and I can go and kiss her and thank her everytime for her help with my mom.

St. Kosmas Aetolos is the patron Saint of Albania.

[Vasiliki D.]

Has anyone here had a close brush with death?

I have and our guardian angels were surely vigilant in delivering us from the hour which was obviously not our time to go.

I have only known my gaurdian angel once ... it was many years ago and I had made some terrible choices at uni and distanced myself from God and the church. The time that I made the decision to break away from all that ... I made a promise to the Theotokos to pray for 40 days ... the first night, in my room, my angel orayed the paraklisis with me ... I felt his the breeze from his wings ... and it didnt distract me from the prayer ... which is how I knew it was him ... I think that my repentance and return was pleasing to him and he prayed for me to commit to that promise.

I have never felt anything like that since and perhaps its better I dont, lest vanity rises ... im happy that for over a decade now I am back in the church and not out being a rebel at nightclubs and stuff like that.


My dear guardian angel, my friend and companion, I am sorry for all the grief and trouble that I have put you through ...

[Andreas Moran]

Thirteen years ago, my first wife, Kathryn, and I went on holiday to Cyprus (the year before she was baptised there). We visited Machairas monastery one day because Bishop Eirenaios had been abbot there in the 1950s. We parked at the end of a long row of cars on the road leading to the monastery gatehouse. After our visit, we came to the car and started to check the map for our route back to Omodhos where we were staying. We looked up to see a monk approaching; he was tall and quite elderly but with very upright posture. He ignored all the other cars and came to ours, coming to the left side where Kathryn was sitting (right-hand drive in Cyprus, remember) with the map. The monk looked at us and asked where we were going, and I told him. He asked which route we were going to take and I showed him on the map. 'Don't go that way - go this way', he said, tracing with his finger another road which leads to Omodhos. I said, 'thank you'. He walked away. We felt a kind of awe, almost fear. I couldn't remember whether this brief exchange was in English or Greek. We looked at each other and then at the road but the monk was nowhere to be seen.

[Alice]

It was my first visit to the monastery in New York with my husband. I was very upset because I had been going through a period of not feeling God's presence at a particularly trying time. It turned out it would also be our first adult confessions with the Elder. We were sitting at a long horizontally lined up table in the (then) guest house. We were sitting close to the aisle. A very tall, very, very straight (back, perfectly square shoulders, etc.), and looking monk came in with the most perfectly beautiful features. He had to squeeze behind my chair to get in to a seat further down the table. I turned around to smile and show him that I was making space when his very blue eyes sparkled a supernatural sparkle at me that I cannot describe in rationale human terms. It felt very comforting. I noticed that he knew none of the other monks and really didn't speak to anyone. When he got up to leave a little while later he said a brief goodbye to whoever was at the door and left. His presence left me in awe. I mentioned it to my husband, and granted my sweetie isn't the most observant of all people (*smile*), but never the less, he never noticed the monk. I assume he was an angel. :-)

[Vasiliki D.]

Both stories are so lovely and thank you so much for sharing your own personal and intimate experiences ...

In Greece at the Monastery of the Virgin in Korinthos the Abbess had given me her blessing to take photos inside the church (alone) .. it was just after the morning Orthros ... in the church I felt the presence of a very tall and slender Elder/monk .. but it was so quick that I actually do think I day-dreamed him ... however, even as a day dream I remember his face ... and how his stare looked right into me ... I can not know if it was bad or good since it was very quick.

He kind of reminded me of Saint Ephraim of Nea Makri, to be honest.

Alice, can I suggest you have a look at the icon of Saint Ephraim and let me know if that is the monk you saw.

[Alice]

No, dear Vasiliki he did not look like the icon I saw of St. Ephraim of New Makri. It is going to sound funny, but my 'angel' looked perhaps more Russian...in his cassock being somwehat different (if I remember correctly), his features were not Greek (though I do know a living Greek elder who he kind of resembled in his features, coloring and built), his built was not really Greek but more Russian ( wide straight shoulders) and his coloring from what I remember was not Greek...and what I remember most clearly was that his blue eyes were supernaturally blue!!

[Nina]

St. Ephraim of Nea Makri has dark brown eyes.

I have never seen him "live" or had any experiences like you have written (I have never seen/felt an angel, saint like you guys say here) but I know he helped me so much during a surgery I had some years ago. When I was in the hospital I encountered him for the first time through a blessed person that came there to visit family and she gave me a small box with the icon and a piece from the wood where the Saint was martyred. Learning about him in the hospital bed is an indelible experience for me and I love this Saint very much. He helped me throughout recovery through his intercessions because I think God sent this girl to tell me about the Saint and give me the little box with the blessings. When I got up for the first time after the surgery a lady came in the room to greet me and she was wearing perfume and because of the aroma I lost consciousness so people notified the nurses but meanwhile a person placed the small box with the icon of St. Ephraim on my forehead (I was still unconscious) and just with that without water or anything else I regained consciousness and then the nurses came in and placed me in bed. And God through St. Ephraim gave me so much strength to handle the recovery time and helped so much with many things during that trying time. Of course Panagia too.

[Effie Ganatsios]

No, dear Vasiliki he did not look like the icon I saw of St. Ephraim of New Makri. It is going to sound funny, but my 'angel' looked perhaps more Russian...in his cassock being somwehat different (if I remember correctly), his features were not Greek (though I do know a living Greek elder who he kind of resembled in his features, coloring and built), his built was not really Greek but more Russian ( wide straight shoulders) and his coloring from what I remember was not Greek...and what I remember most clearly was that his blue eyes were supernaturally blue!!,

Aliki, his colouring does not mean he is Russian. Apart from the Pontios, dark Greeks in this region are rare. My husband has ice blue eyes, my son has my mother's eyes - grey, my sister has cornflower blue eyes - the most amazing you have ever seen. Not a dark eye anywhere.......... even though soft dark eyes are the most comforting I think.

Colouring is not an indication of race. Perhaps, subconsciously you know the "angel" is Russian because you you seen an icon of him or someone similar and have perhaps forgotten it. Are there any sites where icons of Russian saints are shown? It would be interesting if your "angel" was really a Russian saint. A lot of people have encountered someone who helped them and then discovered that the helper was a saint after seeing his face in an icon.

You are blessed because an angel or a saint has visited you.

Effie

[M.C. Steenberg]

Dear friends,

I've moved this thread to the Casual and Personal Discussions area, as it is no longer really about guardian angels per se, but about personal reflections, encounters, etc.

INXC, Fr Dcn Matthew

[Alice]

,

Aliki, his colouring does not mean he is Russian. Apart from the Pontios, dark Greeks in this region are rare. My husband has ice blue eyes, my son has my mother's eyes - grey, my sister has cornflower blue eyes - the most amazing you have ever seen. Not a dark eye anywhere..........

Effie

HEHEHE....I most certainly know this! ...both parents have blue eyes, my husband and I green, my daughter blue, my maternal and paternal grandmothers blue...and all 100% Greek!! Unlike my visitor, however, none of their eyes are like supernatural stars of heaven! *wink*

[Effie Ganatsios]

HEHEHE....I most certainly know this! ...both parents have blue eyes, my husband and I green, my daughter blue, my maternal and paternal grandmothers blue...and all 100% Greek!! Unlike my visitor, however, none of their eyes are like supernatural stars of heaven! *wink*

Aliki, I am sure that you will one day see your angel's image in an icon. To be allowed to see his face means that you will probably be led to knowledge about him.

I always remember that elder Paisios said that the Jerusalem Theotokos was most like our Panayia. I know that those who paint icons are careful of the faces of the saints and prefer to do an exact copy of an older icon.

Icon painting lessons start in September here in Kozani. I telephoned about registering. I hope that I will be lucky enough to be accepted into the programme.

Effie

May Marinathy, her husband, and child, be surrounded by God's love today. And may God guide the hands of her surgeons. Amen

[Nina]

Hieromonk Methodios lived in the desolate kellion of St. Neilos. He was charitable to the utmost. No one ever left empty-handed after having visited him. He would have given alms of his very self if he could.

He went to sleep in the Lord like a little bird, ethereal.
While his accompanying monks were reading the evening prayers and they were reading the prayer to the Guardian Angel, the very pious elder asked, “Read it again, Father Neilos: ‘Holy Angel, the protector of my soul …’”

And as he was sitting down he gave up his spirit with three quiet breaths. The end of a righteous man!

from An Athonite Gerontikon

[Peter S.]

No, dear Vasiliki he did not look like the icon I saw of St. Ephraim of New Makri. It is going to sound funny, but my 'angel' looked perhaps more Russian...in his cassock being somwehat different (if I remember correctly), his features were not Greek (though I do know a living Greek elder who he kind of resembled in his features, coloring and built), his built was not really Greek but more Russian ( wide straight shoulders) and his coloring from what I remember was not Greek...and what I remember most clearly was that his blue eyes were supernaturally blue!!

I think the angels look different to us, because they show themselves in a way we are used to think of them or have seen them on icons, paintings or whatever. I dont know if it is the same with the saints and Theotokos. I think it doesnt matter for them how they look. But it matters how they will look for us.., to them also I suppose. This I have heard.

Peter

[Alice]

Dear David,

Angels (in my experience, and also from many stories that I have read--not all were necessarily Orthodox, but then again we do not have a monopoly on God's love and His protection through the angels *wink*) appear as people that will fit in at that place and time.

The experience I had in the monastery was simply that of monk whosen physical beauty was such that it was practically supernatural in and of itself;

Another experience I had, lost in a very dangerous neighborhood as a very young woman, was of a beautiful black woman dressed all in white (even had a white turban on), in a beautiful all white convertible automobile, and she came out of nowhere and after leading me to safety, disappeared into nowhere.

I have read stories of children appearing in the forest to help other children find their way home, only to vanish; strangers at accidents, only to vanish; etc.

None of these incidents have anything to do with images in iconography, but only with God's miraculous hand reaching out to us at times of need and despair.

In Christ,
Alice

[Nina]

I would have freaked out if people I see a second vanish the next unless there is a door, elevator, corner involved. This is why maybe God does not allow this to happen often to spare us who easily get scared by these. Plus we may be susceptible to delusion since even monastics who are very careful with such visions have had moments when the evil one has tried to trick. It is well known the story of the monk who had an apparition by an "angel of light" who was the devil and who actually told the monk that Christ would come to receive him at a place and hour - but he should not discuss it with his spiritual father. The monk followed the advise and almost fell into abyss spiritually and physically since the devil appeared with throne and all light and a light appearance. But his throne was covering the abyss from the eyes of the monk who was saved by the mercy of God and the prayers of his spiritual father.

[Alice]

I would have freaked out if people I see a second vanish the next unless there is a door, elevator, corner involved. This is why maybe God does not allow this to happen often to spare us who easily get scared by these. Plus we may be susceptible to delusion since even monastics who are very careful with such visions have had moments when the evil one has tried to trick. It is well known the story of the monk who had an apparition by an "angel of light" who was the devil and who actually told the monk that Christ would come to receive him at a place and hour - but he should not discuss it with his spiritual father. The monk followed the advise and almost fell into abyss spiritually and physically since the devil appeared with throne and all light and a light appearance. But his throne was covering the abyss from the eyes of the monk who was saved by the mercy of God and the prayers of his spiritual father.

Well in my case, the beautiful black woman disappeared, but she had appeared from around a corner, and the monk came in and left through the front door of the monastery's guest house! I can't speak for anyone else. However, one got me out of a dangerous situation that I was praying to God for help for, and the other gave me a twinkling blue eye of heavenly comfort that made me feel better, and he was probably also happy because I was soon to have (unbeknowest to me) my first real confession with the gerontawe were waiting to see! :-) I dont think there was anything demonic there! Certainly a demon would not be happy for that! *wink*

But, yes, dear Nina, you are right. If one has an angel vision (appearing as an angel) with a spiritual message, one should be very careful. I have heard that if the 'angel' speaks to you a spiritual message, you should ask the apparition to say the Jesus Prayer. (This is from experiences I have read of monastics) If they can, then they are not a demonic delusion. Let's not forget that Mohammed was visited by an 'angel' who told him to write down the Koran. His wife asked him if he was sure it was not an angel of darkness. Unfortunately for the history of our world, he did not discern properly according to his wife's concern.

In Christ,
Alice

[Nina]

Well in my case, the beautiful black woman disappeared, but she had appeared from around a corner, and the monk came in and left through the front door of the monastery's guest house! I can't speak for anyone else. However, one got me out of a dangerous situation that I was praying to God for help for, and the other gave me a twinkling blue eye of heavenly comfort that made me feel better, and he was probably also happy because I was soon to have (unbeknowest to me) my first real confession with the gerontawe were waiting to see! :-) I dont think there was anything demonic there! Certainly a demon would not be happy for that! *wink*

In Christ,
Alice

First my reaction was not to your experiences but in general from the posts in this thread. But since you replied I can say that it would really freak me out a woman in all white and a turban and convertible who disappears! How can the convertible disappear?

Second since you mention it did you talk to Geronda about this supernatural person you saw at the monastery- when you confessed (since he must know all what goes on there)?

I am not trying to speak about the divine authenticity of these experiences (in general) because I can't judge such things. I am just trying to say that like with dreams which can appear at first very much from God, and then the evil one can entrap us after some instances because our guard is not up.

[Alice]

Dearest Nina,

Thank you so much for your concern.. Ofcourse I have a spiritual father whom I discuss things with!

We all have guardian angels who may get us out of a dangerous situation, if it is God's will. We hear such stories as mine and Andreas' all the time, and though it may be a while before we make sense of who these miraculous helpers were, all we need to focus on and to concentrate on, ofcourse is to thank God. :-)

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Be well,
Alice

[Nina]

Dearest Nina,

Thank you so much for your concern.. Ofcourse I have a spiritual father whom I discuss things with!

No. I did not ask if you have a spiritual father. I asked if you told the Geronda what happened before your confession since it happened after all in his monastery and he must know about it and guide you and/or his monks accordingly if necessity be.



We all have guardian angels who may get us out of a dangerous situation, if it is God's will. We hear such stories as mine and Andreas' all the time, and though it may be a while before we make sense of who these miraculous helpers were, all we need to focus on and to concentrate on, ofcourse is to thank God. :-)

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Be well,
Alice

We do not need to make sense of anything if something supernatural happens. The Church's teachings are that we need to confess it to our spiritual father so he knows about it and guides us. I am not trying to discount your experiences, I am just saying we do not have the necessary discernment.

[Peter S.]

Alice.

I wrote that angels can show themselves in"whatever" form. Not only an iconographic look. They are immaterial. And not only orthodox can see them.